In the Beginning

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2012,19:02)

2bb

How many Gods were there wen God almighty made a god out of Moses ..??? Two and more all the gods of Egypt ,but this does never change the status of the only almighty God Jehovah,

It is because you see those things with the eyes of a men and not in the truth of the spirit

Terraricca,
How many Gods does the Bible teach?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:3

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4

Hath not one God created us? Malachi 2:10

And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he Jesus saw that he answered discreetly. Mark 12:32

And this is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3

There is none other God but one. 1 Corinthians 8:4

But to us there is but one God. 1 Corinthians 8:6

One God and Father of all. Ephesians 4:6

For there is one God. 1 Timothy 2:5

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19

December 3, 2012 at 8:32 pm#323375

Participant

Plus all of the other verses.

December 3, 2012 at 8:51 pm#323376

Participant

How many Gods does the Bible teach?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:3
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
Hath not one God created us? Malachi 2:10
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he Jesus saw that he answered discreetly. Mark 12:32
And this is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3
There is none other God but one. 1 Corinthians 8:4
But to us there is but one God. 1 Corinthians 8:6
One God and Father of all. Ephesians 4:6
For there is one God. 1 Timothy 2:5
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19

What is the common title given to that ONE GOD?

Have we not all one father? Malachi 2:10
But to us there is but one God, the Father. 1 Corinthians 8:6
Grace to you and peace from God our Father. Romans 1:7
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father. 1 Corinthians 1:3
Grace be to you and peace from God our Father. 2 Corinthians 1:2
Grace be to you and peace from God our Father. Galatians 1:3
According to the will of God our Father. Galatians 1:4
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father. Ephesians 1:2
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Grace be unto you, and peace, from our Father. Philippians 1:2
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father. Colossians 1:2
Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father. 1 Thessalonians 1:1
Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father. 2 Thessalonians 1:2

(And that one God and Father, is the Father of Jesus Christ as well.)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. Ephesians 1:3.
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and my God and your God. John 20:17
One God and Father of all. Ephesians 4:6

The Bible teaches us that there is ONE GOD and that that one God is the Father.

December 3, 2012 at 8:56 pm#323378

Participant

And yet, some say that “John” MEANT… “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God“.
When in fact in says that “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God“.

December 3, 2012 at 9:33 pm#323379

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 02 2012,11:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2012,22:32)

Consider what we know from scripture:
1. Jesus IS callled a god, like you said.
2. Jesus IS called “the Word” in Rev 19:13.
3. All things were said to have been created through “the Word” (John 1:3), and they are also said to have been created through Jesus (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2).
4. This particular Word from John 1:1 became flesh, and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
5. Jesus is called “the Word of Life” in 1 John 1.

There are more points I could make, but these should suffice.

And it seems to me that the only reason you claim the Word can't be Jesus is because there is only one god in existence. But we can't take those scriptures in Isaiah LITERALLY, because Jesus is also a god, right? And so is Satan, and many others.

Mike, could you please point out to me where it says that Jesus is called 'a god' thank you.

I just want to look at those verses.

Hi Mike, can you not find us one verse which shows us that there are two or more Gods (especially involving creation)?

I know that there is the verse in the NT, where Thomas says to Jesus “My Lord and my God”
But Jesus said “Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How do you say, 'Show us the Father?'

God was IN HIM,
in Spirit.

December 3, 2012 at 10:56 pm#323381

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 04 2012,01:32)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2012,19:02)

2bb

How many Gods were there wen God almighty made a god out of Moses ..??? Two and more all the gods of Egypt ,but this does never change the status of the only almighty God Jehovah,

It is because you see those things with the eyes of a men and not in the truth of the spirit

Terraricca,
How many Gods does the Bible teach?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:3

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4

Hath not one God created us? Malachi 2:10

And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he Jesus saw that he answered discreetly. Mark 12:32

And this is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3

There is none other God but one. 1 Corinthians 8:4

But to us there is but one God. 1 Corinthians 8:6

One God and Father of all. Ephesians 4:6

For there is one God. 1 Timothy 2:5

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James 2:19

2bb

Quote

How many Gods does the Bible teach?

why are you so deceiving

your question should be ;how many Gods does the bible say or teach that all men should worship

and they answer is simple ;ONE

but if God almighty requesting us to only worship him ,does it not also mean that there are others so called gods that men worship but should not ? YES

if you would understand this all your comment would not be needed ;about this subject

December 3, 2012 at 11:04 pm#323382

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 04 2012,01:56)

2bb

it is ludacris to even say that Christ his God almighty ,

we show you why it says God and should be “a god”but again you could not refuted with scriptures but only by opinions ,

but yes this world is and still in the hand of the rebels ,so we have to make sure that we have the truth according to scriptures understanding but not men ,

so your choice ,end of story ;there are some 50 scriptures that talks about Christ pre existence ,Mike may pin point it were it is

December 3, 2012 at 11:09 pm#323383

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 04 2012,01:32)

Plus all of the other verses.

2bb

no one in his right mind would denied that their is only one true God ;called Jehovah the almighty creator,

this is not to be argued ,their is no argument to be made it is fact,

but what I and Mike says that there are more than one god that men worship ,of cause those gods can ever be above the true God of scriptures ,but they still are gods (this is a tittle in their case)

do not try to make us understand what we know very well to be.

December 3, 2012 at 11:13 pm#323384

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 04 2012,01:51)

How many Gods does the Bible teach?

What is the common title given to that ONE GOD?

(And that one God and Father, is the Father of Jesus Christ as well.)

The Bible teaches us that there is ONE GOD and that that one God is the Father.

2bb

your comment make me feel like i never read the bible in my live never mind studying it .

you try to teach me ,and yet you do not know what the scriptures teaches or information it contains ,beside the rudiments of God ,Christ and creation ,sin ,may be baptism but in water only

December 4, 2012 at 1:48 am#323399

Participant

Terraricca,

This thread and my original question was in regards to John 1.

I know that it is a highly debated chapter, especially John 1:1, and as I said in the beginning of the thread, it was on my mind.
And through this thread and through my own thinking and prayer I have come to this conclusion, summed up:

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.
This word had to be the Holy Spirit.
Why I say this is because John 1 continues on with this:
“And the world was made through Him”
Him being Jesus Christ who was both Son of Man and Son of God and in Him was the Holy Spirit (Emmanuel – God is with us).

Jesus said that all sins will be forgiven, and that if you speak a word against the son of man it can be forgiven, but, if you speak a word against the Holy Spirit it will not be forgiven neither in this life or in the one to come.

And in Genesis 1:1 it says that in the beginning God created the earth, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD was hovering over the face of the waters and GOD SAID let there be… and it was so,

So we have seen how the scriptures that tell us that GOD ALONE created the world, and that NO OTHER GOD was with Him – it was HE ALONE

And we know from scriptures that Paul explains to us that there are two parts to a man; the mind and also the Spirit; and that the Spirit searches our mind; and so it is with God.

We know that it was prophesied of Jesus that 'a shoot would come out of the stock of Jessie' (Isaiah 11:2) and that the spirit of God would be upon him, and that this was so.

So this man Jesus, born of the root of David, from the tribe of Judah, (Rev 5:5), though born of a virgin, would have the Spirit – the eternal Spirit (Hebrews 9:14) on him, and this was so.

The world was created through Him because the Spirit of God was in him, and it was the Fathers eternal spirit in him who did the works.

When people add to scripture to 'force' their own doctrines (and pull everyone else along with them) then they are separating God word and Gods spirit, and this should not be.

What it says in John 1:1 is true
Why would the writer of John change that fact when he was the one who Jesus loved.

I do not debate that Jesus may be called God as the representative of the Father at all, nor do I debate his oneness with the Almighty but what I do debate is this false translation of 'In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was a God'.

And that only was what I hoped to show you, but never mind.
God bless.

December 4, 2012 at 2:01 am#323401

Blocked

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 01 2012,23:14)

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 02 2012,11:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2012,22:32)

There are more points I could make, but these should suffice.

Mike, could you please point out to me where it says that Jesus is called 'a god' thank you.

I just want to look at those verses.

And also don't forget this, thanks.

Isaiah 9:6, possibly Psalm 45:6, John 1:1, 1:18, 20:28, Hebrews 1:8……………..

Now would you address the 5 points I listed, one at a time, by number?

Thanks,

mike

December 4, 2012 at 2:19 am#323402

Blocked

2B,

Could you also address the points in the following post with something other than, “I feel sorry for you, Mike”? For example, can you scripturally refute any of the points that me and the NETNotes scholars made? Which ones? How do you refute them? Which scriptures will you use to refute them? Etc, etc, etc………………

Thanks.

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 01 2012,23:12)

Can you please tell me how you came to believe that John 1:1 is supposed to be 'a god'.

Well, God-given common sense should tell ANYONE that “God” cannot be WITH “God”. That should be anyone's first clue. Even the TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes, who want more than anything for Jesus to be God, say:

The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)

Secondly, the Word from John 1:1 BECAME FLESH – something that God Almighty never did.

And lastly, WHEN the Word became flesh, he didn't have the glory of God, but the glory of the SON OF God. How does something that is God have the glory of God's Son, instead of the glory of God?

December 4, 2012 at 2:30 am#323403

Blocked

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 03 2012,13:32)

Terraricca,
How many Gods does the Bible teach?

But to us there is but one God. 1 Corinthians 8:6

Let's post the rest of Paul's teaching to get the real answer:

5 For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

1. 2B, how many gods are there in heaven and on earth? One? Or many? Paul says both things, right?

2. How many lords are there in heaven and on earth? One? Or many? Paul says both things, right?

3. Is Jesus Christ LITERALLY the ONE Lord in existence? Isn't the God and Father of Jesus Christ also a Lord? How about the lords Paul talks about below:

Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly lords with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

Wait a minute, didn't Paul say that for us there is but ONE Lord? How can he then speak about the OTHER lords some of us might have?

(Think this dilemma through, and let me know how you explain it.)

December 4, 2012 at 2:50 am#323405

Blocked

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 03 2012,18:48)

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.
This word had to be the Holy Spirit.
Why I say this is because John 1 continues on with this:
“And the world was made through Him”

Keep going……………..

According to your belief:

John 1:7 says John the Baptist came to testify about the Holy Spirit who was coming. Is that correct, according to the scriptures?

John 1:12 says that to all who believe in the name of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit gave the right to become children of God. What is the name of God's Holy Spirit, so that we can believe in that name? Is God's Holy Spirit the one who gave us the right to become children of God?

John 1:14 teaches that the Holy Spirit became flesh. Did that happen?

John 1:14 also teaches that the Holy Spirit of God dwelled on earth with the glory of the only begotten son of God. Is the Holy Spirit God's only begotten Son?

John 1:15 speaks of John testifying about the Holy Spirit, who has surpassed him, even though he's coming after him. But in 1:29-30, we learn that the one John the Baptist really said those words about was named “Jesus” and “the Lamb of God”. Is God's Holy Spirit named “Jesus”? Is it named “the Lamb of God”?

John 1:33 teaches that the Holy Spirit is a man, and that the Spirit came down upon the Holy Spirit. Is that really logical?

2B, these are just a few things from one chapter in the Book of John. There are many other scriptures I could continue with, but I hope you're getting the point. The main point is that we learn in verse 14 that whoever is called “the Word” in 1:1 BECAME FLESH and had the glory of GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Neither of these things fit “the Holy Spirit”.

December 4, 2012 at 3:23 am#323407

Blocked

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 02 2012,03:31)

The word was with God and the word was God – no need to add the little 'a' to make TWO God's when the words speak for themselves!

I thought you said you had a handle on that first long post I wrote for you. Apparently not, so listen very closely:

In John 1:1, English translators must do one of two things:

1. ADD the word “the”, making it “God” in English.

2. ADD the word “a”, making it “a god” in English.

Either translation ADDS a word. Do you now understand this fact?

Point #2:

Acts 12:22 literally says They shouted, “This is the voice of god, not of man.” 2B, should we in English ADD the word “the”, making it voice of God, not of Man? Or should we ADD the word “a”, making it voice of a god, not of a man? Either way, we have to ADD two words to the Greek text.

Point #3:

Acts 28:6 literally says they changed their minds, and said that he was god. Now, should we ADD the word “the”, making it he was God? Or should we ADD the word “a”, making it he was a god?

Again, listen very closely: The indefinite article “a” is ADDED into the English scriptures OVER 8000 TIMES. Are you REALLY suggesting that we can ADD the indefinite article that many times so the scriptures make sense to us in English, but we just can't add it in John 1:1?

Seriously? We can add it 8000 times, but just not in that one scripture? Like I said, EITHER WAY we are ADDING a word in 1:1.

I agree with Pierre about you being deceptive lately in this thread. You are calling on popular public opinion to make your points – instead of relying on what the scriptures actually teach.

For example, you already admitted that Jesus is called a god in scripture. Yet you keep relying on the false popular opinion that the Bible speaks of only one god, Jehovah. That is a LIE, 2B. The Bible speaks of MANY gods, some of them by name, ie: Jesus, Satan, Moses, Samuel, Deborah, the angel of the Lord…………………..

So to pander to that popular FALSE belief is not only wrong, it should also be below someone like you.

Another example is the one I've highlighted in this post. You are trying to belittle our understanding by saying, Yeah, but you have to ADD a word to the text to come to your understanding. That is also deceptive, since, like I've just REPEATED FOR YOU, either way a word is added in 1:1, and the words “a” and “the” are added about 10,000 times into the English Bible.

I'm appealing to your better nature, and asking you to address this important matter SCRIPTURALLY, and to stop pandering for popular opinions about things you have been shown are false.

December 4, 2012 at 4:15 am#323419

Participant

2BB

Quote

it was on my mind.
And through this thread and through my own thinking and prayer I have come to this conclusion, summed up:

THIS WAY OF THINKING DOES NOT BRING TO THE TRUTH OF GOD BUT ONLY TO YOUR OWN,; prayers are only good if they are done with a pure heart ,and so believing and understand truth in all scriptures so you will not be duped, remove all what his in your mind and heart of preconceive ideas ;and read and understand what his to be understood in the written words of God without add or subtract anything then the truth will tell were it is that some thing is not right ,then you will have to make a choice follow what now you know to be true or follow men 's believe ,

Quote

look now in your reasoning on the scriptures John 1;1 you have preconceive idea that that verse his true ;now because you cannot understand it or explain it ;you start to make opinions on what it should or should not be ;so this way of study scriptures his wrong ,why not letting the scriptures answer your questions ;it was written under the influence of the holy spirit ,

so if we read further in John we can see that he talks about one person ;

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.

that person John says(1) IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD ;could you tell me what that mean being in the beginning
there also one more question to ask ;WHAT BEGINNING DOES JOHN TALKS ABOUT (2)HAND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD ;NOW WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THIS MEAN BEING WITH SOMEONE (3) AND THE WORD WAS GOD ;NOW HERE IS SOMETHING THAT MAKE IT CONFUSION ;AND THIS IS WERE IMAGINATION OF MEN FLORISHES ; BUT BY ASKING A FEW QUESTION AND FIND THE ANSWERS IN SCRIPTURES ALL BECOMES CLEAR;

SO first ;who his that someone that was in the beginning with God two scriptures comes to my memory one his Prov 8;22-31 and the other his Col;1 ;15-21,both scriptures are making a statement of someone being with God in the beginning and that BEGINNING HIS THE BEGINNING OF CREATION;

in Clo;1;15-22 it his clear that Paul refers to Jesus Christ the son of God ,in Prov it allow us to make the connection to Christ because there his no one else that can make that claim,

Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

those two verses are definitely talking about Christ ,just as it is in Clo;1;15-22 no doubts about it .

Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

NOW IN THIS VERSE JOHN MAKE IT CLEAR THAT HE REFERS TO THE WORD OF GOD ,AND THAT HE BECAME FLESH ;NOW WHO ELSE IN ALL OF CREATION AS EVER COME DOWN FROM THE FATHER EXCEPT JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD HE SAID IT HIMSELF REPEADEDLY ,
WHY WOULD WE HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT IT

Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”

LOOK HERE A CLUE FROM J THE BPT ;HE SAID THAT JESUS SURPASSED HIM BECAUSE HE WAS BEFORE HIM AND WE ALL KNOW THAT JOHN THE BPT WAS CONCEIVED BEFORE CHRIST ; THIS ALSO MAKE ME THINK WEN CHRIST SAYS THAT ” HE WAS BEFORE ABRAHAM”

Quote

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THOSE WORDS AND WHAT IT MEANS

Quote

So we have seen how the scriptures that tell us that GOD ALONE created the world, and that NO OTHER GOD was with Him – it was HE ALONE

WE ALL KNOW THAT GOD CREATED ALL THINGS BUT DO WE UNDERSTAND HOW DID HE DO IT AND WITH WHOM

Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

THIS VERSE ONLY MEANS WHAT IT SAYS

Ge 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

THIS VERSE TELLS US THAT AT ONE POINT IN TIME GOD VISITED THE EARTH AND THIS IS WHAT HE NOTICES

AND THEN THE TRANSORMATION OF THE EARTH TAKE PLACE ,

Quote

What it says in John 1:1 is true

NO THIS IS ONLY WHAT YOU WANTED TO BELIEVE FOR PERSONAL REASONS NOT FOR THE TRUTH OF GOD

'In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was a God'.
YES THIS HIS THE BETTER TRANSLATION IN VIEW OF WHAT THE SCRIPTURES TELLS US NOT OPINIONS THE SCRIPTURES ,

THERE IS FAR MORE SCRIPTURES AND QUESTION TO BE MADE AND ANSWERED BUT I HAVE KEPT IT SHORT

December 4, 2012 at 5:08 am#323421

Ed J

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 04 2012,06:24)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2012,11:28)

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 03 2012,07:37)

Doesn't Christ mean the anointed, 'The Christ' or The 'Christos', so then the spirit of Christ would be the same as the Holy Spirit?

Hi 2Besee,

Glory(77) = Christ(77)

“And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them;
that they may be one, even as we are one:” (John 17:22)

the glory as of the only begotten of the Father (John 1:14) com-
pared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18)

The Word of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Hebrews 7:28)

1Pet.1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of
incorruptible, by “The Word” of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Of his own will begat he us with “The Word” of truth,
that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Quote

Hi 2Besee,

Yes. That is when the spirit of Jesus became
one (in purpose) with God's “HolySpirit”; and Jesus became
“The Christ”; then the spirit of Jesus (after Jordan) was called the “Spirit of Christ”.

Hi Ed, I will think about this later, been a bit short on time lately.

Thank you.

Hi 2Besee,

“Christ” means “anointed”;
and Jesus was anointed with
the HolySpirit at the Jordan river.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.

December 4, 2012 at 5:22 am#323423

Ed J

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 04 2012,11:48)

Terraricca,

The world was created through Him because the Spirit of God was in him, and it was the Fathers eternal spirit in him who did the works.

God bless.

Hi 2Besee

There is only one problem with this theory,
the “Spirit of God” infilled Jesus at Jordan;
making Jesus “The Christ” at that point.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 4, 2012 at 5:24 am#323424