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Hi all.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
These words have been on my mind for quite some time now, and I would like to discuss the opening chapter of John, BUT, I have noticed that (no offense) the Epistles of Paul seem to cause a bit of debate among believers everywhere and even Peter says that people can twist Paul's words and so I would like to look at the meaning of the first chapter of John using scripture, etc, BUT without any of Saint Paul's Epistles included in the discussion, thank-you.
My Revised Standard Version Bible words it as:
John.1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] He was in the beginning with God;
[3] all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
[4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
[5] The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
[6]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7] He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him.
[8] He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.
[9]The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world.
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not.
[11] He came to his own home, and his own people received him not.
[12] But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;
[13] who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
[14]And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.
[15] (John bore witness to him, and cried, “This was he of whom I said, `He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'”)
[16] And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace.
[17] For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
[18] No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
[19]And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”
[20] He confessed, he did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”
[21] And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the prophet?” And he answered, “No.”
[22] They said to him then, “Who are you? Let us have an answer for those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”
[23] He said, “I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, `Make straight the way of the Lord,' as the prophet Isaiah said.”
[24]Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.
[25] They asked him, “Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the prophet?”
[26] John answered them, “I baptize with water; but among you stands one whom you do not know,
[27] even he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.”
[28] This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
[29]The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
[30] This is he of whom I said, `After me comes a man who ranks before me, for he was before me.'
[31] I myself did not know him; but for this I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.”
[32] And John bore witness, “I saw the Spirit descend as a dove from heaven, and it remained on him.
[33] I myself did not know him; but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, `He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'
[34] And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”What do you think this means?
Okay I wanted to find the original Greek wording to it, I found this:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh1.pdf
pdf and copied it out word for word which took ages, and I only got halfway through and then I decided to see if I could 'Google' to find another copy and I found it, and so the original Greek appears to say this:
In original was the saying and the saying was toward the God and God was the saying.
This was in original toward the God.
All thru same became and apart-from same became not-yet one which has-become.
In same life was and the life was the light of-the humans.
And the light in the darkness is-appearing and the darkness it not down-got.
Became human having-been-commissioned beside God name to-him John.
This-one came into witness that he-should-be-witnessing about the light that all should-be-believing thru same.
Not was that-one the light but that he-should-be-witnessing about the light.
It-was the light the true which is-lightening every human coming into the system.
In the system he-was and the system thru same became and the system Him not knew.
Into the own He-came and the own-ones Him not beside-got.
As-many-as yet got Him He-gives to-them authority offsprings of-God to-be-becoming to-the ones-believing into the name of-Him.
Who not out of-bloods not-yet out of-will of-flesh not-yet out of-will of-man but out of-God were-generated.
And the saying flesh became and booths in us and we-gaze the esteem of-Him esteem as of-only-generated beside father full of-grace and truth.
John is-witnessing about Him and he-has-cried saying this-one was whom I-said the-one behind me coming in-toward-place of-me has-become that before-most of-me He-was.
And out of-the filling of-him we all got and grace instead of-grace.
That the law thru Moses was-given the grace and the truth thru Jesus anointed became.
God not-yet-one has-seen ?-as-?-when the only-generated son the one-being into the bosom of-the father that-one unfolds.
And this is the witness of-the John when commission the juda-ans out of-Jerusalem sacred-ones and Levites that they-should-be-asking Him you any are.
And he-avows and not disowns and avows that not am I the anointed.
And they-ask him any then Elias are you and He-is-saying not I-am the before-averer are you and He-answered not.
They-said then to-him any you-are that answer we-may-be-giving to-the ones-sending us any you-are-saying about yourself.
He-averred I sound of-imploring-one in the desolate straighten-ye the way of-master according-as said Isaiah the before-averer.
And the ones-having-been-commissioned were out of-the Pharisees.
And they-ask him and said to-him any then you-are-dipizing if you not are the anointed not-besides Elias not-besides the before-averer.
Answered to-them the John saying I am-dipizing in water midst yet of-you has-stood whom you not have-perceived.
He is the-one behind me coming who in-toward-place of-me has-become of-whom I not am worthy that I-should-be-loosing of-Him the strap of-the sandal.
These-things in Bethabara became other-side of-the Jordan the-?-where was John dipizing.
To-the on-morrow is-looking the John the Jesus coming toward him and is-saying be-perceiving the lamb of-the God the one-lifting the missing of-the system.
This is about whom i said behind of-me is-coming man who in-toward-place of-me has-become that before-most of-me He-was.
And-I not had-perceived Him but that may-be-being-made-appear to-the Israel thru this came I in the water dipizing.
And witnesses John saying that I-have-gazed the spirit down-stepping as-if dove out of-heaven and it-remains on Him.
And-I not had-perceived Him but the One-sending me to-be-dipizing in water that-One to-me said on whom ever you-may-be-perceiving the spirit down-stepping and remaining on Him this is the One-dipizing in spirit holy.
And-I have-seen and have-witnessed that This is the son of-the God.
To-the on-morrow again had-stood the John and out of-the learners of-him two.
And in-looking to-the Jesus about-treading he-is-saying be-perceiving the lamb of-the God.
And hear of-him the two learners talking and they-follow to-the Jesus.
Being-turned yet the Jesus and gazing them following He-is-saying to-them any ye-are-seeking the-ones yet said to-Him Rabbi which is-being-said being-translated teacher ! ?-where You-are-remaining.
He-is-saying to-them be-coming and be perceiving they-came and perceived ?-where He-is-remaining and beside Him they-remain the day that hour yet was as tenth.
Was Andrew the brother of-Simon Peter one out of-the two of-the ones-hearing beside John and of-following to-Him.
Is-finding this-one before-most the brother the own Simon and is-saying to him we-have-found the Messiah which is being-after-translated the Anointed.
And he-led him toward the Jesus in-looking yet to-him the Jesus said you are Simon the son of-Jona (Hebrew dove) you shall-be-being-called Cephas which is-being-translated Peter.
To-the on-morrow wills the Jesus to-be-out-coming into the Galilee and He-is-finding Philip and is-saying to-him be-following to-Me.
Was yet the Philip from Bethsaida out of-the city of-Andrew and Peter.
Is-finding Philip the Nathanael and he-is-saying to-him whom writes Moses in the law and the before-averers we-have-found Jesus the son of-the Joseph the-One from Nazareth.
And said to-him Nathanael out of-Nazareth is-able any good to-be is-saying to-him Philip be-coming and be-perceiving.
Perceived the Jesus the Nathanael coming toward Him and he-is-saying about him be-perceiving truly israelite in whom fraud not is.
Is-saying to-him Nathanael ?-which-place me you-are-knowing answered the Jesus and said to-him before the you Philip to-sound being under the fig-tree I-perceived you.
Answered Nathanael and is-saying to Him Rabbi you are the son of-the God you are the King of-the Israel.
Answered Jesus and said to-him that I-said to-you I-perceived you under-down of-the fig-tree you-are-believing greater of-these you-sall-be-viewing.
And He-is-saying to-him Amen Amen I-am-saying to-you from at-present ye-shall-be-viewing the heaven having-up-opened and the messengers of-the God up-stepping and down-stepping on the son of-the human.
Taken from here
http://www.sprachrohr.ch/joh1So there we have it.
That link to the Greek seems to be dead, this is the correct one:
<a href="https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:WpsOLBBS25UJ:www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh1.pdf+&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjfNU9rpSd9_rPf5mewL495OnkkCPKKSoV6dGdr3Lr8wiFRWE-n_GW5Mp3wk3Ga2Q4mVWjUP1ofD1YZiDyRFm
sXIm9bcWRTp1WDhCIudjkU_Mvmnd0fqFE_2EmAe9YCZAmx292R&sig=AHIEtbSF2D1svDDDnEZY-FkmTTFQXoBi3A” target=”_blank”>https://docs.google.com/viewer?….QXoBi3AQuote (2besee @ Nov. 08 2012,18:01) Hi all. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
These words have been on my mind for quite some time now, and I would like to discuss the opening chapter of John, BUT, I have noticed that (no offense) the Epistles of Paul seem to cause a bit of debate among believers everywhere and even Peter says that people can twist Paul's words and so I would like to look at the meaning of the first chapter of John using scripture, etc, BUT without any of Saint Paul's Epistles included in the discussion, thank-you.
My Revised Standard Version Bible words it as:
John.1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] He was in the beginning with God;
[3] all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
[4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
[5] The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
[6]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7] He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him.
[8] He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.
[9]The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world.
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not.
[11] He came to his own home, and his own people received him not.
[12] But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;
[13] who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
[14]And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.
[15] (John bore witness to him, and cried, “This was he of whom I said, `He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'”)
[16] And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace.
[17] For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
[18] No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
[19]And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”
[20] He confessed, he did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”
[21] And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the prophet?” And he answered, “No.”
[22] They said to him then, “Who are you? Let us have an answer for those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”
[23] He said, “I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, `Make straight the way of the Lord,' as the prophet Isaiah said.”
[24]Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.
[25] They asked him, “Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the prophet?”
[26] John answered them, “I baptize with water; but among you stands one whom you do not know,
[27] even he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.”
[28] This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
[29]The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
[30] This is he of whom I said, `After me comes a man who ranks before me, for he was before me.'
[31] I myself did not know him; but for this I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.”
[32] And John bore witness, “I saw the Spirit descend as a dove from heaven, and it remained on him.
[33] I myself did not know him; but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, `He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'
[34] And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”What do you think this means?
2Besee.
study these first—- – – before you read John 1:1–Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus REJOICED, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast HID these things from the WISE AND PRUDENT, and hast revealed them unto BABES: even so, Father; for so it seemed GOOD IN THY SIGHT.
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me OF MY FATHER: and NO MAN KNOWETH WHO THE SON IS, BUT THE FATHER; and WHO THE FATHER IS, BUT THE SON, –*AND he to whom the Son will REVEAL HIM.*
Luke 10:23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, BLESSED ARE THE EYES which see the things that YE SEE:
Luke 10:24 For I tell you, that MANY PROPHETS and KINGS have DESIRED to see those things which ye see, and have NOT SEEN THEM; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have NOT HEARD THEM.
————————
IN the BEGINNING was the WORD,
and the WORD was WITH GOD,
and the WORD WAS GOD.(Rememeber luke verse 22).
Only the son can reveal it to you if he choseS to.wakeup.
John 1:1 NWT
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.The above is the correct translation of 1:1, and it means that Jesus was a god who was with THE God in the beginning. Jesus was made flesh and dwelled among mankind with the glory of the only begotten Son of God that he was.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2012,11:16) John 1:1 NWT
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.The above is the correct translation of 1:1, and it means that Jesus was a god who was with THE God in the beginning. Jesus was made flesh and dwelled among mankind with the glory of the only begotten Son of God that he was.
MIKeB.Jesus was A GOD? this does not sound right.
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR. (there is no A god beside him)?
Isaiah 43:12 I* have declared, and have saved, and I* have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I AM GOD.
Isaiah 43:13 Yea, before the day was *I AM HE*; and there *IS NONE* that can deliver out of my hand: I* will work, and who shall let it
Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. IS THERE A GOD BESIDE ME? yea, THERE IS NO GOD; I KNOW NOT ANY.
So where does this *A GOD fit in?*
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,
Here is the link to a thread in which we can discuss the MANY gods mentioned in the Bible.
The word “god”, in Biblical usage, referred to men, angels, and the Most High God, Jehovah. In Biblical times, men referred to powerful spirit beings as “gods”. This is why Manoah, knowing he had seen an ANGEL OF God, said, “We have seen a god”.
If you took 10 minutes out of your life to watch the video in my last post on the page I linked above, your eyes might become opened on this topic.
Just think it out, Wakeup, if there TRULY and LITERALLY existed only ONE god, then the titles “God Most High”, “God Almighty”, and “God of gods” would be senseless and useless. Yet Jehovah has those titles because there ARE other gods, and He is the God of those other gods.
My thread is titled after the words Paul spoke in 1 Cor 8:6 – “as indeed there are many gods and many lords, in heaven and on earth”. I know translators try to add their own interpretation of “so-called gods” in that scripture, but there is no scripture in the entire Bible that uses the phrases “so-called gods” or “false gods”.
These phrases come from men who try to protect the Bible from itself. It is the written word of God, so we should let it be what it is. If it explicitely teaches of other gods, of whom Jehovah is the God, then who are we to try to make those teachings null and void in our attempt to protect the Bible from itself? I hope you come to visit that thread.
Anyway, as for John 1:1, this is what the TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes say:
Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb.
You'll notice that there are THREE possibilites in translating John 1:1c into English:
1. THE God
2. a god
3. qualitatively godNumbers 2 and 3 are equal, since one who is “qualitatively man” is equally “a man”. Likewise, one who is “qualitatively god” is equally “a god”.
So now we're basically down to TWO possibilities:
1. The Word was the very God he was with.
2. The Word was a god who was with THE God.You'll notice in the Greek that John wrote, “THE word was with THE god, and THE word was god”.
He did NOT identify the Word as THE God that the Word was with.
That should be enough for now.
all
John.1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] He was in the beginning with God;
question his ;if this his not a creation then why would need to be talking to sins he would stay alone ,now if it is an new creation then he would become the spokeperson to all other creation ,and so be used By God for his now creative works to follow (well displayed in the scriptures)
this is the most difficult understanding for most
Wakeup,
As an addition to my last post, let me add these words from the 25 Trinitarian NETNotes scholars:
The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)
Seems to me that any sensible person would understand that “God” cannot be said to have been WITH “God”. It seems obvious to me that the Word is someone OTHER THAN the “God” he was WITH.
Hi Mike,
Still treading the same old tired ground I see.
Why not read the bible in a new light? (Eph.5:13)
“The Word” is really the “HolySpirit” (Link)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 20 2012,12:09) Wakeup, As an addition to my last post, let me add these words from the 25 Trinitarian NETNotes scholars:
The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)
Seems to me that any sensible person would understand that “God” cannot be said to have been WITH “God”. It seems obvious to me that the Word is someone OTHER THAN the “God” he was WITH.
Mike B.You should know by now that the more scholar one gets; the less spiritual one can think. Because the fleshly mind tends to take over the spiritual reasoning.
Consider the sribes and pharisees;they are the learned and yet, can not understand Christs parables.But can be understood by the simple.
Just picture your self as the person and your WILL.
Now you and your WILL are not two but one.
now you being God;you can PROJECT that total WILL of yours OUT,and make that WILL form into an other person.Now we have TWO persons; but at the same time that other person is you;because it is your WILL.
Your WILL,(the other person) cereated all things,by the WILL of you. the other person which is your WILL, can not operate by itself,unless you want it. You WILL it.Your WILL(the other person) is totally dependant on you.
If you dont want it to happen nothing WILL happen.Now picture this WILL as the WORD of God.
I hope that this does clarify the matter.
wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 18 2012,04:07) Hi Wakeup, Here is the link to a thread in which we can discuss the MANY gods mentioned in the Bible.
The word “god”, in Biblical usage, referred to men, angels, and the Most High God, Jehovah. In Biblical times, men referred to powerful spirit beings as “gods”. This is why Manoah, knowing he had seen an ANGEL OF God, said, “We have seen a god”.
If you took 10 minutes out of your life to watch the video in my last post on the page I linked above, your eyes might become opened on this topic.
Just think it out, Wakeup, if there TRULY and LITERALLY existed only ONE god, then the titles “God Most High”, “God Almighty”, and “God of gods” would be senseless and useless. Yet Jehovah has those titles because there ARE other gods, and He is the God of those other gods.
My thread is titled after the words Paul spoke in 1 Cor 8:6 – “as indeed there are many gods and many lords, in heaven and on earth”. I know translators try to add their own interpretation of “so-called gods” in that scripture, but there is no scripture in the entire Bible that uses the phrases “so-called gods” or “false gods”.
These phrases come from men who try to protect the Bible from itself. It is the written word of God, so we should let it be what it is. If it explicitely teaches of other gods, of whom Jehovah is the God, then who are we to try to make those teachings null and void in our attempt to protect the Bible from itself? I hope you come to visit that thread.
Anyway, as for John 1:1, this is what the TRINITARIAN scholars of NETNotes say:
Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb.
You'll notice that there are THREE possibilites in translating John 1:1c into English:
1. THE God
2. a god
3. qualitatively godNumbers 2 and 3 are equal, since one who is “qualitatively man” is equally “a man”. Likewise, one who is “qualitatively god” is equally “a god”.
So now we're basically down to TWO possibilities:
1. The Word was the very God he was with.
2. The Word was a god who was with THE God.You'll notice in the Greek that John wrote, “THE word was with THE god, and THE word was god”.
He did NOT identify the Word as THE God that the Word was with.
That should be enough for now.
Hi MikeB.Sorry took so long.
What I like to say is this;that the more you invite those scholars into your understanding,It only will confuse you more.
This sublect is a deep mystery that only Jesus could give you understanding through the Holy spirit. Not through some scholar.
Regarding many Gods; yes there are many,many gods,but all are dead gods invented by men by the craftiness of satan.
Some even consider a tree as god,but their god.
God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.There is only one genuine God,the rest are introduced gods.
The mongkey is also considered god by some.King Herod back then, was considered as a god.Angels are considered gods. Even today the pope is seen, and treated,and named as god. Holy father they call him;is that not Gods title?
Lords there are many also,rich people are addressed as; my
lord.(master). But we know that there is only one true Lord,that truly DESERVE that title.(spiritual master).
Satan and his fallen angels(his princes) are called, and worshipped as gods in this world.So dont let that trouble you.
For there is no TRUE God beside God.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 24 2012,06:41) Wakeup? 2beesee? No comments?
Hi Mike and Wakeup,
I'm sorry, I haven't had much time on the net lately.
hopefully soon I'll catch up with all of these posts.
Perhaps tomorrow.Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 23 2012,15:07) Regarding many Gods; yes there are many,many gods,but all are dead gods invented by men by the craftiness of satan. Angels are considered gods.
So, according to the two above statements that you yourself made, we can conclude that angels of God, like Michael and Gabriel, are “all are dead gods invented by men by the craftiness of satan”, right?Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 23 2012,15:07) For there is no TRUE God beside God.
So then Jesus, who is also called “god” many times in scripture, is a “false god”? Perhaps Jesus is one of the “dead gods invented by men by the craftiness of satan” that you mentioned above?Wakeup, it is easy for me to see how your mind is struggling to explain certain things that are clearly taught in the Bible – simply because you don't WANT those things to be true. See, you don't WANT Satan to be a god, like he is clearly called by Paul AND by Jehovah, so, in order to protect the Bible from itself, you'll invent phrases like “false god” and “so-called god”.
But Satan is never called a “false god” or a “so-called god” in any scripture. Jehovah called him “the god of Ekron”, and Paul called him “the god of this age” – yet no one in scripture ever called him a “false god”, or a “so-called god”. Those kinds of phrases are from men like you, who aim to protect the Bible from itself. I will believe the words of scripture over the words of men who are trying to protect the Bible from itself.
We can end this with one simple question:
Wakeup, it is scriptural that Jehovah is the God OF gods, right? Will you name one of the gods that Jehovah is the God of?
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 23 2012,14:27) Just picture your self as the person and your WILL.
Now you and your WILL are not two but one.
now you being God;you can PROJECT that total WILL of yours OUT,and make that WILL form into an other person.Now we have TWO persons; but at the same time that other person is you;because it is your WILL.
Your WILL,(the other person) cereated all things,by the WILL of you. the other person which is your WILL, can not operate by itself,unless you want it. You WILL it.Your WILL(the other person) is totally dependant on you.
If you dont want it to happen nothing WILL happen.Now picture this WILL as the WORD of God.
I hope that this does clarify the matter.
Yep, now it's as clear as mud to me, Wakeup.
Let's follow your thinking through:
1. The other “god” in John 1:1 was “the will of God”.
2. It is normal to call a person's will by their own name, ie: It was Wakeup's Wakeup (his will) that he move to California.
Or, Wakeup, it is of my own free Mike that I teach you the scriptural truth about John 1:1.
3. It is completely normal to say that one's will is with them, as if it can somehow not be with them.
4. God transformed His will into another person, who was really still God.
(a. Does that mean God in heaven no longer had His own will, since it was transformed into Jesus?
b. Does it mean that God was in heaven at the same time God was on earth praying to God in heaven?
c. Does it mean that the will of God became the only begotten Son of God?
)5. God's own will, which was transformed into Jesus, said he came, not to do his own will, but the will of He who sent him.
Have I summed it up correctly, Wakeup?
How about, instead of making up this mish-mash of illogical claims, you actually address the FACTS of the matter, as laid out by the NETNote scholars?
1. Do you accept that there are THREE different ways to translate John 1:1c? YES or NO?
2. Do you accept that “a god” is one of those three possibilites? YES or NO?
3. Do you accept that it is completely abnormal to say “God was with God in the beginning”? YES or NO?
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 16 2012,21:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2012,11:16) John 1:1 NWT
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.The above is the correct translation of 1:1, and it means that Jesus was a god who was with THE God in the beginning. Jesus was made flesh and dwelled among mankind with the glory of the only begotten Son of God that he was.
MIKeB.Jesus was A GOD? this does not sound right.
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR. (there is no A god beside him)?
Isaiah 43:12 I* have declared, and have saved, and I* have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I AM GOD.
Isaiah 43:13 Yea, before the day was *I AM HE*; and there *IS NONE* that can deliver out of my hand: I* will work, and who shall let it
Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. IS THERE A GOD BESIDE ME? yea, THERE IS NO GOD; I KNOW NOT ANY.
So where does this *A GOD fit in?*
wakeup.
Wakeup, that is just the typical Jehovah's Witness translation and view.
Quote You'll notice that there are THREE possibilites in translating John 1:1c into English: 1. THE God
2. a god
3. qualitatively godNumbers 2 and 3 are equal, since one who is “qualitatively man” is equally “a man”. Likewise, one who is “qualitatively god” is equally “a god”.
So now we're basically down to TWO possibilities:
1. The Word was the very God he was with.
2. The Word was a god who was with THE God.You'll notice in the Greek that John wrote, “THE word was with THE god, and THE word was god”.
He did NOT identify the Word as THE God that the Word was with.
That should be enough for now.
If we look at ourselves, there are three different 'layers' to us.
There is our 'spirit' which is the deep and free person of who we really are…. it is our emotions, our love, our joy, our sadness, it is our self
Then there is our thoughts, or our reason….
So our spirit with our thoughts make up who we are, plus or minus the flesh.
God is spirit.
But God does not have a body of flesh.
The world was made through Jesus and Jesus had glory with God before the world was made, and so it seems that God's own thoughts or reason had worked through this vessel (the word) in the past before this vessel was made flesh.
Just pondering it.
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