How the Lake of Fire and the Second Death Brings Salvation

This topic contains 110 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #833788
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene

    I’ll send reply on the ages.

    God bless. Thanks for lettinge me know your thoughts, on the body at the resurrection.

    #833790
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene I don’t fellow you  with the ages of God sound like maybe , you said three and a half years JESUS was cut off in the middle of the week sounds like Daniel 70th weeks

    Daniel says in the mist but mist mean middle there to. Can you try to clarify what you mean better.

    God bless

    #833831
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anthony. ..Yes in the midst of the week shall the messiah be cut off. I believe Daniel was relating to the seven thousand year period of God’s plan for his cr e ation week i could be wrong though, because he could be refering to his seventy week prophecied event. I will try to check it out again latter, i have to get going now.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #833836
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anothny….Daniel said seventy weeks were determined unto “thy” people (the Jews) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem ) to finish the trangression, and to make an end of sins, and to reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting rightiousness m and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to aniont the most Holy.

    Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seventy weeks (490 yrs) a day for a yr., and threescore and two weeks (435 yrs) a day for a year, ; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    AND AFTER threescore and two weeks, (434 yrs) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the PRINCE (Titus was a prince he was the son of the emperor Vaspasian )that shall come shall destory t h e city and the santuary; and the endthereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war “desolations are determined.

    Anthony it say “after’ 634 yrs JESUS would be cut off (sacrificed for “our” sins) not his sins but ours, he (the Messiah ) shall confirm the covenant (new covenant) with many for one week, (a week is seven years), Jesus preached the kingdom of God and the new covenant for 3.5 years was then cut off, (sacrificed) for the sin of many, and he still stayed around and for another 3.5 years confirming that covenant with the apostles and others, before he returned and took his seat in the Temple of God, where he remains to this day waiting to return.

    So i think I was wrong on my original post brother, but i still believe that God has set up his overall plan to conform to a seven thousand year plan, the next phase of his plan will be the beginning of the seven throusand year, that takes place at Jesus return, when the whole earth shall enter into a sabbath rest period. And after that a whole new period begins, when God the Father makes all things new.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #833837
     Anthony 
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    Thanks Gene  God bless

    #833850
     Anthony 
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    Hi All

    Hell and the Grave

    1. “For You will not leave my SOUL IN SHEOL (Hell in the Authorised Version), nor will You allow Your Holy One to see CORRUPTION.” Psalm 16:10

      “If I ascend up into heaven, You are there; if I make my BED IN HELL behold, You are there.” Psalm 139:8

      ‘Hell’ is not a translation

      ‘Hell’ is not a translation. It is a word that has been inserted by translators into the Bible because of their preconceived ideas about a place of eternal torment. This idea is fast losing ground today as modern translators realise that Hebrew words like ‘sheol’, simply meant the grave to the original inspired writers of the Scriptures. The translators are still very shy though, and in many instances have left the word ‘sheol’ untranslated in modern Bible versions. This is because they can see that this word obviously means ‘the grave’ and not the traditional meaning. Rather than admit this though, and the folly of using the inserted word ‘hell’ in the past, they have just left the Hebrew word ‘sheol’ untranslated many times, and left the readers to make up their own minds.

      Comparing old and new translations

      The following are two interesting examples of how translating has changed by comparing the King James Version (A.V.)and the New King James Version (N.K.J.V.) of Jonah 2:2, and Isaiah 4:14:Jonah 2:2  A.V. – “out of the belly of HELL cried I”  N.K.J.V. – “out of the belly of SHEOL I cried”Isaiah 4:14  A.V. – “Therefore HELL hath enlarged herself”  N.K.J.V. – “Therefore SHEOL has enlarged itself”
      You will notice the same situation with Psalm 16:10 quoted as a key verse above.

      ‘Gehenna’ the rubbish tip

      ‘Gehenna’ or ‘The valley of the son of Hinnom’ which is what the Greek word means, was the rubbish tip outside of Jerusalem in the time of Jesus which was also used to burn the bodies of criminals who had suffered capital punishment. Most of the occurrences of the word ‘hell’ in the New Testament refer to this ‘place of burning’ outside of Jerusalem.

      ‘Hades’ the unseen

      The word Hades comes from two words: ‘A’, which is ‘Alpha’, the first letter of the Greek alphabet and is a negative letter which simply means ‘without’. The equivalent in English would be the word ‘un’. The other word is ‘eido’ which means ‘to see’. So ‘Hades’ simply means, ‘unseen’. Is the ‘hades’ of the Bible the same place as that described in Greek Mythology? Websters Dictionary describes Hades as, “the grim god of the lower world dwelling in the abode of the dead conceived as either a dark and gloomy subterranean realm or a remote island beyond the western sea.”

      Consistent Bible teaching

      If we can accept the words quoted from Psalm 16 which prophetically teach that Jesus went to ‘sheol’ (ie. the grave) when He died, then to be consistent with Bible teaching, we must accept that Peter meant the grave as well when He said that Jesus went to hades when he quotes Psalm 16 in Acts 2:27. Any other explanation would have Old Testament teaching contradicting the New Testament. The fact that the New Testament was written in Greek does not mean that we have to use Greek mythology to interpret Scripture. Today we use words like “lunatic”, but this does not mean that we accept that somebody’s mental health depends on the phases of the Moon.

      Extra info and Bible references

      ‘Hell’ is a word that was added (interpolated) to our Bibles and is not a translation of the original language. When we see this word in scripture its true meaning is ‘the grave’ or ‘the pit’ in the Old Testament. In the New Testament this word is used with reference to the burning ‘rubbish tip’ that was outside of Jerusalem, known as ‘the valley of the son of Hinnom’ or ‘gehenna’.’sheol’ in the Hebrew is interpolated ‘hell’ or translated ‘grave’ or ‘pit’ in the Old Testament. Psalm 6:5, 9:17, 30:3; Numbers 16:30,33’hades’ in the Greek is translated ‘grave’ or interpolated ‘hell’ in the New Testament. 1Corinthians 15:55, Matthew11:21, 16:18’gehenna’ in the Greek is interpolated ‘hell’ in the New Testament. Matthew 5:22, 23:15; Luke 12:5 God bless

    #833851
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anthony….yes i also believe the words Hell, sheol, hades, in scripture, all mean the grave.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #833869
     Truthcomber 
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    Transferred in from Preexistence (Part 2), page 519

     

    Hi Gregory,

    You:
    As well, people had holy spirit before Jesus, It wasn’t a new thing. Difference is, before Pentecost, it was spirit upon, not within, like we have today. God would choose who he gave it to, to bring about his will; and people would lose that spiritual connection if they sinned. Pentecost was when it was made available for everyone to receive holy spirit, God’s outpouring, and become permanently sealed – you don’t loose it because you didn’t pay for it, Christ Jesus did. (2Co 1:22, Eph 4:30)

    After Pentecosts…
    Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    Me:

    Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love (Agape: love from the spirit of God) of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Me: Click on the link below. Then click on 26 obe “love”.

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-12.htm
    26 agápē – properly, love which centers in moral preference. So too in secular ancient Greek, 26 (agápē) focuses on preference; likewise the verb form (25 /agapáō) in antiquity meant “to prefer” (TDNT, 7). In the NT, 26 (agápē) typically refers to divine love (= what God prefers).

    1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    Me: So Matt 21:26 is considering Christians with divine love. They shall not be saved when Christ comes back, but later at the end of the millennium, by the lake of fire, looking for that fearful judgment ( Luke 19:12-27). Not true that you cannot lose your salvation in this generation when the son of man returns.

    Matt 3:11  I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    Me: Even the Pharisees will be saved, but in the lake of fire, which Christ shall consume their self.  All of Israel will be saved.  Most , “like the dry bones” will be saved in the millennium.

     

    Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

    1 Peer 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    Roman 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded…30 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 31 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

    Me: The church is a kind of firstfruits. The main harvest comes after Christ comes back. All Israel will be saved.

    1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

    Me: Christ the firstfruits (plural) refers to Christ and his church as one.  “Afterwards they that are at his coming refers to the fest of mankind.  

    #834061
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
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    Here is a good website on :
    1. Tartarus
    2. Gehenna
    3. Hades
    4. Lake of Fire
    5. Eonian Judgment
    6. What the Greek Church fathers believed
    The author can explain it better than I
    http://gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/the-judgments-of-the-divine-law/chapter-4-the-lake-of-fire/

     

    #834072
     NickHassan 
    Blocked
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    Hi,

    Stephen Jones, another ear tickling false teacher.

    #834077
     NickHassan 
    Blocked
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    Hi TC,

    The ‘Greek fathers of the church’ got lost is the marshes of logic and inference and did not follow the Spirit of truth.

    Their church is their own and unrelated to the Body of Christ.

    2jn9

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