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Gene: Isa 44v17…..And the residue thereof (a tree), he “makes” a God, even his graven image; he falls down unto it, and worships “IT”, and prays unto “IT”, and says unto “IT” , Deliever me; for you are my God.
That’s one of my favorite passages in the Bible.
Isaiah 44:16-17… He burns half of it in the fire, and he roasts meat on that half… From the rest he makes a god, his graven image. He bows down to it and worships; he prays to it and says, “Save me, for you are my god.”
And he doesn’t even consider, “I burned half of it in the fire, and I baked bread on its coals; I roasted meat and I ate. I’ll make the rest of it into an abomination, and bow down before a block of wood!”
😄😅😆
Now Gene, nobody in their right mind would agree that the block of wood actually IS a god, because clearly the block of wood ISN’T a living, sentient being who can help someone or hurt his enemies, right?
The point of the story isn’t that a manmade idol really IS a god, but that some people are so deluded that they THINK they can create a god to help them by simply carving an image.
Notice that the deluded man bows to his image and asks the image to SAVE HIM. Why? Because he irrationally THINKS it actually IS a god – and a god is a living sentient being who can hear his pleas and save him!
Do you understand yet? A god is a living being who CAN hear pleas and interfere in human affairs to help someone succeed, and cause harm to others who try to hamper him from succeeding. The poor deluded fellow that Isaiah is talking about just happens to be wrong that his block of wood actually IS one of these living sentient beings who CAN help him.
So you’ve once again offered scripture that supports my argument, and defeats yours. Because the deluded guy doesn’t think the block of wood is a “relationship with something”. He thinks it actually is a powerful spirit being who can save him. In other words, he thinks it actually IS a god when it isn’t.
Mike no one today would, but back then they certanily did, and because that man made his tree his God, by doing what a God requires , it then was truley “HIS” God.
If you “truly” believe all humans are God’s, then you should fall down and “truly” worship us, after all you are saying we are real God’s, right? Mike all the God’s of the pagans like Baal, Dagon, EL, Marduk, Nisroch, ect , were “real” God’s to those who , worshiped then as their God’s.
We havent even left square one in this debate , you still simply do not know what it requires to be a “real” God to anyone? Yes a “REAL” GOD, to any person, or idol, makes no difference if anyone does to “anything” what is required to have a God relationship with, He She, or it, that is then, “TO THEM” a “REAL” God/god. Why because it fulfill the requirement of what a God is?
THIS WHOLE THREAD CAN’T even begin to move forward unless you come to understand that.
Thats all you doing is playing word games in order to not accept the truth IMO.
I HAVE SHOWED YOU clearly from scripture there are other true God to other People ! But they are not anything to US, who believe in, “only “ONE” “TRUE” God” . According to, God the Father, Jesus Christ, and Me.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike………gene
Gene, you are pontificating again – instead of DIRECTLY addressing my points. And what’s worse, you are making false claims about me in the middle of your pontification. When did I ever say “all humans are Gods”?
Now please go back to the previous page and DIRECTLY address my posts from yesterday. They are the last 4 posts on the previous page.
At the bottom of the first 3, there is a direct question that I posted in huge letters. I demand a DIRECT and HONEST answer to those 3 questions, Gene. That is what this Hot Seat thread is for, after all. It is to stop you from IGNORING my solid rebuttal to the crap you spout by forcing you to actually STAND and DEFEND that crap.
Now, are you a coward? Are you a scared little girl? You told me you weren’t, right? So now PROVE that you aren’t by DIRECTLY answering those posts.
Do you know what it means to DIRECTLY answer a question, Gene? Does it mean ignore the question completely, and just spout off a bunch of the same old tire crap again? NO Gene, it does NOT mean that.
Now, I’m going to re-post the first of those questions again. And by the rules of this thread, you are not allowed to post anything anywhere else on this site until you DIRECTLY answer it…
Gene: Mike, he certanly was not saying they were real God’s , why, because that would make him a liar, and we are told our God , does not lie.
Here is the quote from Ps 82… “You are gods, all of you sons of the Most High, but you will die like men.”
I hear your claim above, and now I want you to present your scriptural evidence that when Yahweh clearly said they were gods, He didn’t actually mean they were gods.
GENE, WHERE IN THAT PSALM CAN I FIND ANY INDICATION OF WHAT YOU CLAIM – THAT HE CALLED THEM GODS, BUT DIDN’T ACTUALLY MEAN THEY WERE GODS?
Gene, do you see that question at the bottom of the post above? That is my DIRECT question for which I DEMAND a DIRECT answer from you. Get to it before you post anything else on this site.
Do you understand the task at hand, Gene? This is an example of what I REQUIRE from you…
1. Mike, there ISN’T any indication in that psalm that they were NOT actually gods.
or…
2. Mike, here are the specific words in that psalm that prove that, although Yahweh called them gods, He didn’t actually mean they WERE gods…
I’m not playing around with you anymore, buddy. It’s time to get down to the brass tacks and stop your years of IGNORING direct questions only to spout the same old crap over and over. ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION, GENE!
Mike, have abswered it over and over, your seems just to ignorant to see it. This is how you work your deciet, You find something in scriptures like a single statement that can be taken in a way that is against hundreds of other sound scriptures, that directly countradict that, and your own personal conclusions. Then just press that single scripture, as if our scriptures don’t address that understand you have contrived up in your own mind, which goes against many, many, many, scriptures written in or texts of scriptures that cover it, the truth is found in the sum of the scriptures, not just one, possible misquoted scripture.
There are Scholars Who say that scripture is misunderstood, and the word god there was meaning rulers, or magistrates, not “real” God’s, and hundred of scriptures back that up also.
Your saying human being are a God’s, is a total lie, and against hundreds of scriptures written in our texts, both by God himself, and Jesus , who clearly said “this is eternal life that they might know “you” THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD. So there is your answer , but you simple do not believe Jesus, not to mention how many time God the Father himself said the same thing, as i have quoted you here.
You not after the truth here and wouldn’t know it if it bit you in the ass, just as you don’t believe the earth is a round sphere. Your one of two things , the blind leading the blind, or a servant of Satan himself, working lies, and deceptions, your not after any “HONEST” true dialogue here , because, you haven’t reconized any of the scriptures i have posted here as true yet, that “Clearly” show your “ASSUMPTIONS”, are wrong , me, and Jesus Christ, and the rest of all (TRUE BELIEVERS), “ONLY HAVE “ONE” God, And his name is YAHOVAH, “OUR” TRUE GOD.
YOU CAN MAKE ANYTHING “YOUR” GOD , IF YOU WANT, BY DOING TO IT WHAT IS REQUIRED TO BE “YOUR” GOD, THEN , HE, SHE, or IT, IS INDEED “YOUR” GOD, even a TREE CAN BE “YOUR” GOD , JUST “BELIEVE “IN IT, AND BOW AND PRAY TO IT, AND SAY IN YOUR HEART THIS IS MY GOD . and that’s “YOUR” God?
To all out there watching this, there are all kinds of God”s out there , to those who “believe” in them THEY ARE their God, but to US, TRUE BELIEVERS , THER IS “ONLY” ONE “TRUE” GOD. ALL THE OTHERS, “TO US” , ARE FALSE God’s. It’s all a matter of “YOUR”, “Faith” .
SATAN hates the idea of “ONLY” ONE “TRUE” GOD, and so does his servants also.
Peace and love to you all and yours……..gene
Mike, by God the Father saying to us , “you shall have no other God’s besides me”, does show there can be other God’s right? , so it does show the existence of others God’s right? But we are told not to have “ANY” God’s besides one, “Yahovah” , who said there is “NO” TRUE God besides him right. So what is wrong here, because that seems like a countradictory statement right? , but you seer, it’s not, if you understand what the word God (itself) means.
The word (God/god), does not imply any person or any (thing), it implies your relationship with those things, can you understand that?
That is why the word God “always” is connect to a person, by using the words,
my God, their God, your God, his God, her God, the God of this person , or that person, the word God only applies to a person or thing when is is connected to something.
Example , The God “OF”, Jacob, Issac, Abraham, the God “of” Israel” this shows the word God, is not a person but a relationship with something , our Faith is in “only” one true God, that is to alL, the rest of the “so-called” God’s, are false God’s ( TO “US” ), but that is not saying that there are not other “true” God’s, to (YOU AND OTHERS OUT THERE), if you believe others are “true” God’s to YOU , THEN YOU SHOULD , BE BOWING YOURSELF, and worshiping them as your Gods , you preach them as YOUR true God’s, so do you serve them as your “TRUE” God’s, if you don’t , then you simply are lying here to us, AND YOURSELF, IMO.
AGAIN THE WORD (GOD) itself is not a Person , it’s a “RELATIONSHIP”, YOU HAVE WITH A PERSON OR THING. ANY PERSON OR ANY THING.
Peace and love to you and your Mike………gene
Mike, you dance around ever where to try to dig up somthing to try to prove you right, if we and everyone you believe are truly god’s , as you try to put, then you need to bow down and worship then as such . Do you do that, and if not then they are not “true” god’s are they, Jesus clearly said this in prayer to God the Father , “this is eternal life , that they might come to know “YOU”, the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD/god.
The word “ONLY” meanS JESUS NEVER ACCEPTED ANYONE ELSE, as a “TRUE” GOD. Thats what Jesus said , (not me), Now i happen to believe what Jesus said, do you? If you do “truly” believe him, then your puzzle is solved and you .
Look i have explained what the true word GOD means, and yes the tree the man was worshipping , and bowing down to, was indeed “his” God. Why because it it fulfills the requirement of a God/god TO “HIM” anything can be a God/god to anyone, if “THE PERSON” believes it to be.
Just like you going around saying the people Jesus spoke of, were true God’s, to him and of course you, when in fact Jesus said, he only had “one” true God. I would never expect Jesus to bow down and worship me as a God/god , nor anyone else either. That’s a joke at best. Your simply wrong Mike . Admit it.
Peace and lone yo you and your Mike………..gene
Gene: The Word God is not a person, it is a description of your (relationship), with something, anything…
Genesis 1:1… In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.
Gene, does Gen 1:1 mention a PERSON? Yes or No?
Gene: You find something in scriptures like a single statement that can be taken in a way that is against hundreds of other sound scriptures, that directly countradict that…
You’ve actually just described yourself! 😅 You are the one who clings to 5 or 6 verses in the entire Bible, and purposely misinterprets them in an attempt to be right when you’re clearly wrong. But let’s fix that, shall we?
Hosea 13:4… I am the LORD your God… there is no Savior besides Me.
Isaiah 43:11… I am the LORD, and there is no Savior but Me.
Isaiah 45:21… There is no other God but Me, a righteous God and Savior; there is none but Me.
Okay Gene, there are 3 different verses that say there is no savior but Yahweh.
Gene, do you believe that Yahweh is literally the one and only savior who has ever existed? Yes or No?
Mike……..YES I DO, with “ALL” MY HEART , ”ALL” MY SOUL, “ALL” MY MIND, ALL, MY STRENGTH . How God the Father does it, is another subject. Makes no difference to me it still is him and him “alone” that is doing it, and I give “ALL” the glory of my salvation to him and him alone.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike……..gene
Thanks for your direct answer, Gene. That’s how discussions should ALWAYS be done, how differences can finally be resolved, and how learning can finally take place. Continually talking past each other without directly addressing the other guy’s arguments is an exercise in futility.
2 Peter 3:18… But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
Gene, if Yahweh is LITERALLY the ONLY savior, what does it mean that Jesus is called our savior in many scriptures?
I hope that you will address this in the same direct manner as you did the last time. I also hope that you will directly answer my other question from yesterday. Here it is again…
Gene: The Word God is not a person, it is a description of your (relationship), with something, anything…
Genesis 1:1… In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.
Gene, does Gen 1:1 mention a PERSON? Yes or No?
Mike, No, it dosen’t , mention a person, it mentions a God beings, relationship with us humans . The scriptures were written to people who knew who God was, why because HE was , “THE” ONLY ‘TRUE” GOD, that, ever existed and ever will exist. His “Name” is CALLED , yehweh, or Yohovah, as far as SOME scriptures goes. But to me and Jesus and other “true” believers, WE CALL HIM , “our Father”, who is in heaven”. HE LIVES IN MY HEART AND MIND AS, “MY FATHER”, the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD, HE LIVES IN MY BROTHER, Jesus’ mind, the EXACT, same way. GOD the Father “IS” MY LIFE, “NO” OTHER, Jesus or Moses ,or the prophets are my life even if God the Father used them in the process of my salvation. While i hold them in a honored position, i will not say they are my, “SAVIORS” I HAVE ONLY “ONE” Savior, and that is GOD THE FATHER, I will not give “HIS” GLORY to others, no matter who they are.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike………gene
Mike: Genesis 1:1… In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.
GENE, DOES GEN 1:1 MENTION A PERSON? YES OR NO?
Gene: Mike, No, it dosen’t , mention a person…
Interesting. Okay then…
Gene, did a person create the heaven and the earth?
Gene: i will not say they are my, “SAVIORS” I HAVE ONLY “ONE” Savior, and that is GOD THE FATHER, I will not give “HIS” GLORY to others, no matter who they are.
Interesting. So they you wholeheartedly disagree with Peter – the one Jesus said he’d build his church upon – when Peter says that Jesus is our Savior?
Peter/Scripture: Jesus is our Savior.
Gene: Jesus is NOT our Savior!
Have I accurately portrayed your stance, Gene? Scripture teaches one thing, and you teach the opposite? Do I have that right?
Mike……Another misunderstood scripture of yours , Jesus never told Peter he would build the Church with “him” The rock mentioned there was, NOT PETER.
It was the “POWER” of God to reaveal the truh into the minds of people, Just as he did with, PETER, that was the “POWER” Jesus was going to use to build the church on, NOT, the man PETER..
Mike, you seem unable to put scriptures together, properly , or you would have known that. What did Jesus tell people?, NO ONE “CAN”, COME UNTO ME, “EXCEPT” THE FATHER DRAW HIM. Now how do you think the Father draws a person to Jesus, the same way Peter was drawn to Jesus, by the revelation of” the truth”, given in his mind, by God the Father. Thats the power Jesus is using to build the Church with. GET IT?
MIKE, the truth is in the sum of scriptures , God give those he is calling the power to do that, “brethern, you have no need of a teacher, the “spirit of truth” , “ITSELF”, will teach you all things”. JUST THAT SIMPLE, Mike.
peace and love to you and yours Mike…………gene
Gene: Mike……Another misunderstood scripture of yours , Jesus never told Peter he would build the Church with “him” The rock mentioned there was, NOT PETER.
Matthew 16:18-19… And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
The name “Peter” means “rock”, Gene. Jesus actually said, “You are Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my church.” And then he went on to talk even more about the man Peter – not the revelation from God. Notice all the bolded words “you” in the passage above. Every one of them refers to PETER – not to a revelation, right?
Now, back to more pressing matters…
Gene, did a person create the heaven and earth? Yes or No?
Also, did I understand you correctly before? Peter and other scriptures say that Christ is our Savior, but you say that Christ is NOT your savior. Please clarify for the record that this is in fact what you have claimed.
Hi Gene, I’ve brought this recent discussion here from another thread to be sure it doesn’t get overlooked by you…
Gene: Mike……Simply answer, God who is “in” all things, is the “only” source of “salvation” for “all” things , us, and Jesus himself also. Saying God the Father uses this or that person, or thing, to bring about his purposes, makes no difference it’s still God, and God “alone ” doing it.
I think you are saying that, while God sent other saviors to us, since their power to save comes from God, God alone would be the ULTIMATE Savior. Is that right?
So then David could legitimately be called a savior of Israel, but God would be the ULTIMATE Savior, because it was through God’s power that David saved, right?
And Jesus could be legitimately be called our savior, but God would be the ULTIMATE Savior, because it was through God’s power that Jesus saved, right?
Am I understanding you correctly Gene? Do you agree with how I’ve worded it?
Hi Gene. I’m still waiting for your direct answer to this question:
GENE, DID A PERSON CREATE THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH?
Mike, yes, a person did. AND HIS NAME is “Yohovah”, and He is the “only” true God that “EXISTS” to “US”, TRUE “BELIEVERS”. is that saying there is not other “true” God’s, to others, not that not saying that, why?, because the word God is not a person, it’s the “RELATIONSHIP”, a person, “ANY” person, has with “ANYTHING” THAT EXISTS.
AGAIN FOR , for the hundreth time, the word God does “not” describe a “PERSON” it describes , “YOUR” relationship, with something, anything, yes it can even be a tree , if you “believe” in your heart, then it “is” “YOUR”, ACTUAL, God , do you now get it Mike?
That is why our true God , said do not make any image of me , in the heavens above earth beneath or the waters under the earth . When Moses went up into the Mountan to speak with God, the childern of Israel wanted the high preist to make an image of God for them to worship him, So Aron took the only thing they had that reminded of God which was the picturial word for God which was the picturial “OX” head, REPPRSENTING A OXEN, and made a molten “image” of it, And Israel fell down and worshipped it , thinking it represented their “true” God, and commited Idolotry.
GOD the Father said, do not do that with anything in heaven above or in earth beneath or in the waters beneath the earth.
By falling down and worship that moltant (image) they created, they were making “IT”, their God. AND IT ANGERED BOTH , “Our true” God, “YAHOVAH”, and Moses. Now can you see, it was what they were “doing”, to that “image” that was establishing it as “their” true God? Bowing down and worshiping, it was making it their “true” God. Now do you finaly understand that the word God, is what you are doing to something, anythi.ng?, by bowing down and worshiping it, that’s what makes it “YOUR” God.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike………gene
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