Good and Evil

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2008,10:25)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,07:34) Hi DK, A reading of the activities of Satan in testing Job shows that what we call calamities were instigated by him, allowed by God. But God does not do these things. Satan is God's tool in testing men but those evils are from Satan. Nick….God caused satan to do to Job what he did, It was God who brought up Jobs name in the first place God uses Satan for his work. Job 42:8 ,,,,…..> and they consoled Him and comforted him for all the (ADVERSITY) that the (LORD) had brought upon Him., God is the responsible Party for all He brought on Job, including causing Satan to do what He did. God uses Satan for His purposes on earth.

GB

Read the story.

God did not “cause” satan to bring the evil upon him.

God allowed it and told satan he couldnt touch his life.

WJ

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,07:34)

Hi DK, A reading of the activities of Satan in testing Job shows that what we call calamities were instigated by him, allowed by God. But God does not do these things. Satan is God's tool in testing men but those evils are from Satan.

I disagree..Isaiah 45..says GOD does cause calamity to befall some..I just gave you examples of where GOD took credit for some calamity….Here is a good example “the flood” of noahs day

[dirtyknections]

I agree with what you said concerning JOb though

[dirtyknections]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 11 2008,11:05)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2008,10:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,07:34) Hi DK, A reading of the activities of Satan in testing Job shows that what we call calamities were instigated by him, allowed by God. But God does not do these things. Satan is God's tool in testing men but those evils are from Satan. Nick….God caused satan to do to Job what he did, It was God who brought up Jobs name in the first place God uses Satan for his work. Job 42:8 ,,,,…..> and they consoled Him and comforted him for all the (ADVERSITY) that the (LORD) had brought upon Him., God is the responsible Party for all He brought on Job, including causing Satan to do what He did. God uses Satan for His purposes on earth. GB Read the story. God did not “cause” satan to bring the evil upon him. God allowed it and told satan he couldnt touch his life. WJ

AMen

[seekingtruth]

Some consider spanking kids “evil” and while it is undesirable to both the one receiving and the one dispensing it, it is for a greater good that parents should practice this and it is for the greater good that the Father will cause some of what we call evil to come to pass.

However I agree with WJ that man, and satan through man, are the proponents of the actual evil in this world.

Wm

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 11 2008,11:05)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2008,10:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,07:34) Hi DK, A reading of the activities of Satan in testing Job shows that what we call calamities were instigated by him, allowed by God. But God does not do these things. Satan is God's tool in testing men but those evils are from Satan. Nick….God caused satan to do to Job what he did, It was God who brought up Jobs name in the first place God uses Satan for his work. Job 42:8 ,,,,…..> and they consoled Him and comforted him for all the (ADVERSITY) that the (LORD) had brought upon Him., God is the responsible Party for all He brought on Job, including causing Satan to do what He did. God uses Satan for His purposes on earth. GB Read the story. God did not “cause” satan to bring the evil upon him. God allowed it and told satan he couldnt touch his life. WJ

WJ…I have read the story more then once, It was God who brought up Jobs name not Satan< "have you considered my servant Job That there is none like Him upon the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and shuns evil". Ask yourself why would God even bring up Jobs name in the first Place, because he was wanting to provoke Satan's Jealousy against Job, and if what you say about God not brining evil on someone Because God only does good then why would He bring on a perfect and upright man all this evil, You say Satan did it but if you care to look up the end of the book you will fine God took full responsibility for all the evil He brought on Job.

But even all this Evil that God Brought on Job , It was for a (Good) purpose , God had to do to Job what he needed to prevent future self righteousness from ruining Him. God used Evil to effect a good work for Job's sake.

IMO…..gene

[NickHassan]

Hi gB,
Jealousy?
You have a vivid imagination.

Jb 40
Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him ? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

I do not see God blaming Himself but I do see warnings against men doing so.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick….obviously you haven't read the end of the book read it you might gain some lacking incite. Job42:11 ” and they consoled him and conforted him for mall the (ADVERSITY) some have EVIL that the Lord has (BROUGHT) upon HIM.

Do you see the Adversity was Satan that GOD (BROUGHT) ON HIM>

YOU need to read the whole story not Just take one scripture and try to make it fit the context of the story.

Nick quite trying to twist the truth to meat your Idology.

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
Let scripture speak.
Listen to Job and do not judge God.

Jb42
1Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

2I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

3Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

4Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

5I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick….I quoted what scripture said about what God brought on Job, the subject here is who was responsible for Jobs suffering. and I have proved it was God who did it. Are you so oblivious to what we are talking about you cant stay on subject. If you have a scripture in the text that says that God did not bring it on Job like it says then post it or quite trying to confuse subject matter.

Your going squirrelly on me and getting off subject matter again.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2008,16:57)

Nick….I quoted what  scripture said about what God brought on Job, the subject here is who was responsible for Jobs suffering. and I have proved it was God who did it. Are you so oblivious to what we are talking about you cant stay on subject. If you have a scripture in the text that says that God did not bring  it on Job like it says then post it or quite trying to confuse subject matter. Your going squirrelly on me  and getting off subject matter again.

GB

Nobody is saying that God does not take the responsibility.

He is the creator and takes responsibility for it all. But he is not the author of evil.

How can light be darkness? How can Love be hate? How can Good be evil?

You would make God both evil and good. God cannot lie? So is God the source of the Father of lies that Yeshua spoke of?

God is not divided against himself.

God allowed satan to do the evil that he done to Job without taking his life, and God takes responsibility for that, However God is not an evil spirit that comes on men to destroy them.

Yeshua says…

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10

Yeshua nowhere claims the Father does these things!

The Father does judge and chastise men using the despot called satan and evil spirits or demons, however they are restrained and can do no more than he allows.

So is the case of Job. satan does his work for evil, yet the Lord can turn it for good, and God gets the glory.

Regardless of the rebellion and the evils satan and men do, God will work out everything according to the council of his will. In the meantime there is war, and we do not yet see all enemys put under his feet.

WJ

[gollamudi]

Hi brother WJ,
That is wonderful post I agree with you on that.
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Do not blame God
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;  

But see the way all things work together for good.
Jas1
1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

2My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

3Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
 
1Peter 5
8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

10But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Then when God has equipped you, you can fight back

Jas4
7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Rom16
20And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

[gollamudi]

Amen to that post.

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2008,15:51)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 11 2008,11:05) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2008,10:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,07:34) Hi DK, A reading of the activities of Satan in testing Job shows that what we call calamities were instigated by him, allowed by God. But God does not do these things. Satan is God's tool in testing men but those evils are from Satan. Nick….God caused satan to do to Job what he did, It was God who brought up Jobs name in the first place God uses Satan for his work. Job 42:8 ,,,,…..> and they consoled Him and comforted him for all the (ADVERSITY) that the (LORD) had brought upon Him., God is the responsible Party for all He brought on Job, including causing Satan to do what He did. God uses Satan for His purposes on earth. GB Read the story. God did not “cause” satan to bring the evil upon him. God allowed it and told satan he couldnt touch his life. WJ WJ…I have read the story more then once, It was God who brought up Jobs name not Satan< "have you considered my servant Job That there is none like Him upon the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and  shuns evil". Ask yourself why would God even bring up Jobs name in the first Place, because he was wanting to provoke Satan's Jealousy against Job, and if what you say about God not brining evil on someone  Because God only does good then why would He bring on a perfect and upright man all this evil, You say Satan did it but if you care to look up the end of the book you will fine God took full responsibility for all the evil He brought on Job. But even all this Evil that God Brought on Job , It was for a (Good) purpose , God had to do to Job what he needed to prevent future self righteousness from ruining Him. God used Evil to effect a good work for Job's sake. IMO…..gene

Wow..brother Gene..You are rrrreeeeaaaccchhhiiinnnggg… with your thoughts lately…read the bible for what it says…its simple brother

[chosenone]

We sometimes spank our children, does that mean we do not love them? Of course not, we do it for correction, to teach them it was wrong what they did. It was neccessary for their benifit, we did it BECAUSE we love them.
Does not God use evil for our benifit, yes He does. When man does evil it is sin, when God uses evil it is done to reach His objective, which is to be “All in all”.

Blessings.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
God wants all to be saved.

The sacrifice is sufficient.
The grace of God is sufficient.
But all do not drink in the rain falling.

The prophetic record shows that all men do not respond and repent.

Heb4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

[chosenone]

A God that can't do what He wants? What about “All My desires I WILL DO” (Isaiah)

[gollamudi]

yes, there is a valid point in Chosenone's post.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Those who would presume that He will always do His perfect will do not know Him very well.
God's will has many possible expressions allowing choices to men.
For us GOOD, PERFECT AND ACCEPTABLE

Any gain on the 1 talent given was sufficient to please God.

Rom12
1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We do not command God to do what we think he said He would do.
Prophesy also shows all men do not grasp the grace offered.

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