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Quote (the four horseman @ Nov. 04 2006,18:40) I don't agree with this at all. Being baptized in water doesn't have anything to do with salvation. But it does have everything to do with being obedient. Being baptized by water saves you no more then the baptism of the Holy Spirit baptism saves you. Lack of either will not keep you from out of heaven, but it sure makes for a bumpy ride. We are suppose to do just as Jesus said to do to John the baptist when John question having to baptize Jesus aren't we, fulfull all righteousness?
Can you show me a scripture in the Bible that says baptism has nothing to do with salvation? I am curious to see if what you believe is Bible or opinion. I believe based on the Bible none of us can say what applies and what doesn't. We are only to obey God. God does not need our approval. Yet many stand in judgement of the Scriptures, and add opinion on top of the Word, and then twist the Word to agree with us. Let me give you a couple of examples.Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38).
Doesn't seem like your view of the bible is accepted here.
nd now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)
Again a place where your view would not apply. There are many others, but my point is that whether YOU or I agree with God is not the issue the issue is God is in control, and our only right is to submit to Him, and obey Him.
God may save someone without water baptism, and He may reject someone with water baptism. That is not the issue the issue is what does God teach us to do. He tells us to MAKE DISCIPLES, and BAPTIZE THEM (Matt. 28:19). So we should do just that . Go and make disciples and baptize them. Nowhere is God looking for our opinion about His commands (i.e. what is effective and what is not). Everything that God commands is spiritual and should not be mocked or minimized. Yet alot of people mock God by making void His commands with their traditions. And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! (Mark 7:9)
Quote (Sultan @ Nov. 07 2006,12:51) Quote (the four horseman @ Nov. 04 2006,18:40) I don't agree with this at all. Being baptized in water doesn't have anything to do with salvation. But it does have everything to do with being obedient. Being baptized by water saves you no more then the baptism of the Holy Spirit baptism saves you. Lack of either will not keep you from out of heaven, but it sure makes for a bumpy ride. We are suppose to do just as Jesus said to do to John the baptist when John question having to baptize Jesus aren't we, fulfull all righteousness?
Can you show me a scripture in the Bible that says baptism has nothing to do with salvation? I am curious to see if what you believe is Bible or opinion. I believe based on the Bible none of us can say what applies and what doesn't. We are only to obey God. God does not need our approval. Yet many stand in judgement of the Scriptures, and add opinion on top of the Word, and then twist the Word to agree with us. Let me give you a couple of examples.Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38).
Doesn't seem like your view of the bible is accepted here.
nd now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)
Again a place where your view would not apply. There are many others, but my point is that whether YOU or I agree with God is not the issue the issue is God is in control, and our only right is to submit to Him, and obey Him.
God may save someone without water baptism, and He may reject someone with water baptism. That is not the issue the issue is what does God teach us to do. He tells us to MAKE DISCIPLES, and BAPTIZE THEM (Matt. 28:19). So we should do just that . Go and make disciples and baptize them. Nowhere is God looking for our opinion about His commands (i.e. what is effective and what is not). Everything that God commands is spiritual and should not be mocked or minimized. Yet alot of people mock God by making void His commands with their traditions. And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! (Mark 7:9)
I would say the water is nothing without the heart
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 07 2006,08:07) Quote (Sultan @ Nov. 07 2006,12:51) Quote (the four horseman @ Nov. 04 2006,18:40) I don't agree with this at all. Being baptized in water doesn't have anything to do with salvation. But it does have everything to do with being obedient. Being baptized by water saves you no more then the baptism of the Holy Spirit baptism saves you. Lack of either will not keep you from out of heaven, but it sure makes for a bumpy ride. We are suppose to do just as Jesus said to do to John the baptist when John question having to baptize Jesus aren't we, fulfull all righteousness?
Can you show me a scripture in the Bible that says baptism has nothing to do with salvation? I am curious to see if what you believe is Bible or opinion. I believe based on the Bible none of us can say what applies and what doesn't. We are only to obey God. God does not need our approval. Yet many stand in judgement of the Scriptures, and add opinion on top of the Word, and then twist the Word to agree with us. Let me give you a couple of examples.Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38).
Doesn't seem like your view of the bible is accepted here.
nd now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)
Again a place where your view would not apply. There are many others, but my point is that whether YOU or I agree with God is not the issue the issue is God is in control, and our only right is to submit to Him, and obey Him.
God may save someone without water baptism, and He may reject someone with water baptism. That is not the issue the issue is what does God teach us to do. He tells us to MAKE DISCIPLES, and BAPTIZE THEM (Matt. 28:19). So we should do just that . Go and make disciples and baptize them. Nowhere is God looking for our opinion about His commands (i.e. what is effective and what is not). Everything that God commands is spiritual and should not be mocked or minimized. Yet alot of people mock God by making void His commands with their traditions. And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! (Mark 7:9)
I would say the water is nothing without the heart
Amen. I just don't want to say that something God has commanded (water baptism) has nothing to do with salvation when scripture doesn't say that.Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 18 2004,20:36) “and I give eternal life for them, and they shall never perish; and NO ONE shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all; and NO ONE is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand”
John 10:28-30 (emphasis added).I read the words “no one” to include the saved person him/herself.
Hi Is,
” No one [man or devil?]can snatch them out of My hand”The one who snatches cannot also be the one who is snatched surely? Get a hold of yourself indeed!!!
What a wonderful place to be ..in the hand of Jesus.But Jesus also said in Lk 12.9[also Mt10.33 and Mk 8.38]
” But the man who has disowned Me in the presence of men will be disowned in the presence of the angels of God”
Peter did but repented fortunately.And remember God is not man. He can spew us out of His mouth or remove the lampstand or erase our name out of the book of Life.The most revealing warning about complacency after salvation is 1 Cor 10 1-5.
The wise man builds on the foundation of Jesus and builds something that can withstand the severe storms and challenges to our faith we will meet.
Our lesson then is: Don't ever reject God because by doing so you reject God and his offer of Salvation. If you reject God then confess and start over again and he will forgive you.
In essence: Don't reject God before anyone and he won't reject you. Don't forget to be saved first. 'seek ye first the Kingdom.'Christ said to his disciples if ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. He also said that every branch in me that beareth not fruit my Father pruneth it and men gather them and cast them into the fire to be burned. Many Christians with great intentions fail to see the evident truth that Christ taught here, which is if you fail to abide ye may fail to reside. The apostle Paul was straight to the point on this issue. Paul said he kept under his body and brought it into subjection lest at any time after he had preached to others that he himself might be cast away. In Hebrews 7 he wrote a lengthy passage that mirrors what he wrote above to the Corinthians. Grace did not abolish obedience to Christ. Grace merely abolished the rudiments and proceduralism of the law to be justified in the sight of God. I Peter 2:20 says that a person who is again entangled in the corruption of the world will be worse off than he was prior. The scriptures are crystal clear. With respect to Christ coming, Jesus said to remember Lot's wife (who is a type of the spiritual lukewarm Christian in the great tribulation). In short, Calvinism, once saved always saved, is heresy. The Father draws, but he doesn't take away the will of the person to accept or to reject Christ. Upon acceptance of Christ, those who endure to the end shall be saved. Christ also taught us to pray to be worthy to escape the great tribulation in Luke 21:36. If the Christians were automatically worthy to escape the tribulation merely upon acceptance of Christ, then the prayer is in vain, which of course cannot be true.
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