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Nick:
Sorry, made an error. The question to you is: How do you, personally, know that you are saved now?
Hi 94,
By the path I have followed.
By the downpayment of the Spirit.
By the awareness of God's love.
By peace.
and by trust.Nick:
Relative to Cornelius the following scriptures may shed some light on this subject: “And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of the quick and the dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as man as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost”. (Acts 10:43-45)
Nick:
You say, “Nothing there about salvation, but they were baptised in the Holy Spirit, and in water”.
Yet, in a response to H under the thread of 3 Baptisms on 10/18/2006 you state: “Do you think the example of God's work among Cornelius and his friends is the usual work of God done for salvation? Yes, God accepted them as clean. God is soveriegn”. If God accepted Cornelius as clean, as you say, then their sins were forgiven and that is salvation.
Again, Acts 10:43 states: “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins”. I have already made it clear in my previous posts that believing is not merely a mental assent.
Hi w
“Yet, in a response to H under the thread of 3 Baptisms on 10/18/2006 you state: “Do you think the example of God's work among Cornelius and his friends is the usual work of God done for salvation?”Indeed but I did not say all had been fulfilled yet “for salvation”.
Baptism in water for the the fulfillment of righteousness was insisted on correctly by Peter.Hi w,
Some people like “whatifs”
I don't but for a little test;What if:
Peter had not realised water baptism was necessary?
Peter was wrong and should not have said that?
What if he did know but did not say so?
Cornelius had refused to be water baptised?
No water was accessible?
Would anything have been different?
Would he still have been saved?Hello God is in Charge!
We obey as far as we are able and leave the minutiae to the one who actually saves.
The Spirit of Christ in Peter showed us the behaviour expected by God and we must learn from the Word of God.
Nick:
It is the blood of Jesus that washes away our sins. It is not a baptism of blood as H claims. Cornelius and his friends had been forgiven their sins when they received the Holy Ghost, and you have already acknowledged this. They were commanded to be baptized in water and we should be baptized as soon as possible after we believe whether or not we have received the Holy Ghost prior to being baptized in water.
Water baptism is symbolic of our union with our Lord in his death, burial and resurrection, and therefore, symbolizes our sins being washed away, not by the water, but by the blood. (Rom. 6:3-11, Col. 2:11-14, 1 Peter 3:21) We are baptized because we believe. And, as I stated before, our obedience does not stop with water baptism.
“And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us”. (1 John 3:24)
Hi 94,
1Peter says water baptism is an appeal for cleansing. It is an expression of faith by a repentant heart of one who acknowledges our God and our Lord and who wants to be saved. God saves. God sprinkles our hearts with the blood of the paschal lamb.
Was Simon Magus saved?
Was he forgiven?Nick:
Who is Simon Magus? If he had received the Holy Spirit, then that would indicate that God had forgiven him his sins, and he was saved.
Hi 94,
Acts 8
” 9But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:10To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me. “
Hi 94,
He had believed and been baptised but had he repented and been forgiven?
It shows that empty ritual is not enough for salvation but man needs repentance too.Lk 13
“1There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.2And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
So it shows that water baptism is done by faith but without the knowledge of the heart which only God sees.
It seems he had not been baptised in the Spirit but he wanted to have the power to use for financial gain and without the control by the Spirit over that power.Nick:
Thanks for letting me know about Simon Magus. And we see that water baptism did not do him any good because his heart was not right before God. (Acts 8:13)
Anyway, this has been a good discussion. I don't believe that there is any more than I can add to what I have already said. I pray that God would give us revelation knowledge of his Word so that we can come into unity, teaching and preaching the same message.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 20 2006,04:02) Hi 94,
He had believed and been baptised but had he repented and been forgiven?
It shows that empty ritual is not enough for salvation but man needs repentance too.Lk 13
“1There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.2And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
So it shows that water baptism is done by faith but without the knowledge of the heart which only God sees.
It seems he had not been baptised in the Spirit but he wanted to have the power to use for financial gain and without the control by the Spirit over that power.
Nick,“So it shows that water baptism is done by faith but without the knowledge of the heart which only God sees.
It seems he had not been baptised in the Spirit but he wanted to have the power to use for financial gain and without the control by the Spirit over that power”.“So it shows that water baptism is done by faith” This is of course true. But I don't understand what you are saying in the 2nd half? ” but without the knowledge of the heart which only God sees.
Simon was saved even though God knew his heart was wrong?
Please explain?Kenrch
Hi kenny,
Those who serve God by baptising men into Christ do so without the knowledge of the heart of those they baptise. It is essential that men repent and plough the fields before the planting of the seed but God's servants are never sure how much of that information has been taken in and acted upon. Only God knows the heart.Or they may be inexperienced and not leading the converts to realise repentance is essential. Many do not repent and thus other leavens are found among the assembly, even antichrist leavens as those of that spirit “came from among us”.
It seems the responsibilty for preparing men for salvation is the person doing the baptism and that is one reason it is never delayed once that gospel is preached so that no one builds on another's foundation as Paul said.
Clearly Simon had not repented and the Spirit of Christ revealed to Peter the evil condition that his heart was still in.
I don't agree with this at all. Being baptized in water doesn't have anything to do with salvation. But it does have everything to do with being obedient. Being baptized by water saves you no more then the baptism of the Holy Spirit baptism saves you. Lack of either will not keep you from out of heaven, but it sure makes for a bumpy ride. We are suppose to do just as Jesus said to do to John the baptist when John question having to baptize Jesus aren't we, fulfull all righteousness?
Hi t4h,
True that God will save many who have not been baptised such as after the second resurrection-the sheep and goat judgement. Salvation is given by God but we, like Christ, should seek the three witnesses in heaven, the Spirit, the water and the blood[1Jn 5]We are to fulfill all righteousness and strive to enter the rest[Heb 4 -1000yrs] sabbath of Messiah's reign.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2006,18:26) Hi kenny,
Those who serve God by baptising men into Christ do so without the knowledge of the heart of those they baptise. It is essential that men repent and plough the fields before the planting of the seed but God's servants are never sure how much of that information has been taken in and acted upon. Only God knows the heart.Or they may be inexperienced and not leading the converts to realise repentance is essential. Many do not repent and thus other leavens are found among the assembly, even antichrist leavens as those of that spirit “came from among us”.
It seems the responsibilty for preparing men for salvation is the person doing the baptism and that is one reason it is never delayed once that gospel is preached so that no one builds on another's foundation as Paul said.
Clearly Simon had not repented and the Spirit of Christ revealed to Peter the evil condition that his heart was still in.
Ok now we are making sense. So Simon was not saved even though he was baptized. His heart was not right.Although scripture says he believed (Acts 8:13).
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