- This topic is empty.
- Posts
1 Corinthians 1:26 – For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
If you are born of the spirit you will hate evil, and cleave to that which is good. You will love God's word and hate this world, Then Christ will be formed in you.
Whoever loves is born of God.
If you diligently seek righteousness, you will find it.
Love God, hate the world (sin).
Quote (trettep @ April 15 2005,20:51) The Transformation of the mind is a lifelong event. Your always walking in repentance and always renewing the mind and putting on the mind of Christ to be become the perfect man. To receive the Holy Spirit one must believe the Gospel.
Paul
Yes trettep,
I agree on both counts. But that does not allow us to dispense with the rest of the message of the true gospel does it?Hi Acts 1044
” While Peter was still speaking thse words the Holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the message. All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the gentiles also. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered
'Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptised who have receved the Holy Spirit as we did, can he? '
And he ordered them to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days”Acts 8.14
” Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the Word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them;they had simply been baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit”We see an order displayed here. Water baptism is the first priority after faith and repentance.We know Philip baptised the eunuch in water but there is no record of him laying on hands and the apostle was taken away immediately by God. It shows that all things do not have to happen at once through one person but if one is ready water baptism is first. Even when God demonstrates He can change the order it does not change our responsibility to offer water baptism, and in the name of Jesus and not a trinity. We do see evidence that sometimes the Spirit falling is later. Neither does that make it unnecessary. It just shows the usual order.
Why did Peter order water baptism? Because he was following instructions. Did he saythat water baptism is unnecesary as the Spirit had fallen first? No. He learned directly from the master and I trust him rather than the modern teachers who would call him ignorant and confused.
What would have been the consequences if Peter had not made that order? Would they be the sheep that had climbed over the fence rather than going through the gate? Would they be the guests at the wedding feast not dressed in wedding clothes?We also see the gift of the Spirit is not theoretical but accompanied by signs.
Do read what is not there. It says that Peter ordered them to be baptized into the name of Jesus Christ. It doesn't say that he baptized them in water.
Paul
So Trettep,
They had been baptised in the Spirit so what other baptism do you suggest he meant? fire?There is no requirement for water baptism. Peter said who could forbid water. If someone doesn't get baptized with physical water and someone else says that physical baptism by water is necessary than the one that says it is necessary is forbidding that God can choose someone without the physical water baptism.
Paul
Baptism by fire is the trying of our faith. Its the second death – its by that fire what the wicked become ashes under the saints feet.
Paul
Hi trettep,
Anyone can write their own gospel but it is wiser to stay with the teaching and example shown by those closest to Jesus surely?Gospel means “good message” Good has only one source. All others are perversion. We must seek out that one which is Good!
Paul
hi ,
Everyone says he loves God. That is a given. So there are a few proofs required of that love.
1 Jn 5.1
” Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born to Him.” So if you love God you acknowledge and love the Son of God. That narrows the field a bit.Jn 14.23
” If anyone loves me he will keep my word; and my Father will love him and we will come to him and make our abode with him”Okey dokey so we have to know and keep the word of Jesus.
Well Jesus said
” you must be born again of water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God”Can we say Whoa! Stop right there. I love God, I love Jesus, I love the Word. That must be enough. Surely God knows my heart and knows that I love Him so I will be blessed. Obedience seems a bit stiff after all the love I give Him?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Everyone is born of the water. Not all are born of the Spirit. The Father in Heaven is the author of reproduction. And human reproduction is a process of divine reproduction. As man we break forth from the flesh (water) but from the Spirit we break forth from the Spirit (also water). This is why we are man and why we are. This is why the Children of God are born again.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Faith is required for Salvation but Faith without works is dead. Therefore, saving Faith is not void of works. But which works? The works of the Letter of the Law? – No – for the letter of the law can make none righteous. But the Spirit of the Law brings us to salvation for those are the works of Faith. Grace is the opportunity for those that believe in the Goodness of God and that Goodness is given to us as a way to follow in the very Son of God. That those who have Faith will receive their salvation at the END OF FAITH:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
If we still have Faith then we have not received salvation. When we can see and no longer need hope then shall we receive salvation as long as we endure till the end through willful reverence to the Lord by conforming to the very image of His Son by the name of Jesus Christ of which there is no other name under Heaven by which we can be saved!
If one doesn't believe in this Faith then they have it not. If one believes that the spirit of disobedience leads to righteousness then they believe a lie.
Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
I labor here for purpose of fullfilling those commandments to love my neighbor as myself. I wish of myself to enter into salvation as I do all and I know that my salvation is depending on fullfilling that love to show unto others the purpose and knowledge revealed unto me that others might find joy in the greatest message there is which is that through Jesus Christ we can be born into the Family of God as the very Children of the Most High God – the Father in Heaven. Does anyone know a greater message? Was a greater message every preached? Does man find good in another message? There is no other Gospel than that. It my hope that as many hear that message find great joy and pursure it with zeal and happiness that I might reap good works for this is the giving that is greater than receiving. For that is where the reward to eternal life comes from.
Paul
Hi trettep,
Being born of water is natural birth? You must have lots of scriptures that support this thought?Where else is natural birth called being 'born of water'? Why should the word water be used in this context? Being 'born' would seem to suffice I would have thought?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Paul
I posted those two verses together as they are often not quoted together but were intended together because the message was that as its written. Everyone that is of the flesh is delivered of the water of the womb. But one must be born of the Spirit which is not everyone.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Its the earthly thing that is an example.
Paul
Hi trettep,
I have searched the scriptures and find no comparative scriptures relating birth to being born “of water” but I am looking forward to what you can show me.Neither is there any I can find correlating water and flesh but perhaps you can show me as well? Our bodies are made from dust and not water as far as Genesis 2 explains.
We do not rely on human understandings to search the word but let it explain itself and it does not seem to show your premise.
In John 3 Jesus said we had to be born again. He did not relate the comment of Nicodemus about returning to the womb to this rebirth but you imply that is what he meant.
Scripture does talk of being born “of woman” and “of God” though. So the word “of ” means “derived from” in this context surely. So do you suggest we derive from water and not God or Woman?
No. I think it much more likely means how it was expounded in example by his followers-being baptised in water.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Joh 3:6 has to do with Joh 3:5.
Paul
Hi trettep.
What does “born of the Spirit” mean?
Reborn by the baptism in the Spirit perhaps?Then what does “born of water” mean?
Reborn by water baptism or born of the flesh?Commonsense is it not?
In John 3:5 born of the water means to be born in the flesh. Being born from the Spirit means to be born from the Spirit.
or just read the next verse:
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
And if John 3:5 doesnt mean what John 3:6 states then what does it mean? – be specific.
Its hard for many to except that statement but its very clear from Jesus that he is saying what is born of the water is flesh and what is born of the Spirit is Spirit. The reason its hard to accept is many want the Word of God to conform to them. Instead they should be conforming to the Word of God.
Paul
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
