God of gods and Lord of lords

[Jodi]

Ed J,

Wow you need to slow your roll! My last post was addressed to Gene, NOT YOU. I have not REPLIED back to you AT ALL since you gave those 3 posts.

Just so we are perfectly clear,

YOU: Do you really expect people to take you seriously,
when I gave you three posts to respond to, and you instead
respond to a Post (#864025) which I told you does not concern me???

ME: FALSE, I never responded back to you about anything, after you gave those three posts. 

YOU:Your misunderstanding of John 10:34-36 does not concern me.

ME: I don’t see an explanation of that passage in John 10 by you, would you care to explain?

ME: You told me at least twice that I misunderstood that passage. You responded back to me 5 times based on my discussion of that passage and then you told me that it doesn’t concern you, where it very much seemed to be concerning you before. Why else would you in the first place bother to tell me I misunderstood it??

So you can say I misunderstand a passage but because it doesn’t concern you anymore what I think that passage means,  I have no right to ask you to give your understanding? 

YOU: Seems you would rather have endless bickering of trivial matters,
than to help definitively establish people’s understanding of truth.

There are more important things for us to discuss.
Things that we can make headway on. You can bicker
the meanings of unclear verses with other members, ok?

ME: First, GET OFF this topic then if you don’t want to discuss this topic, “God of gods and Lord of lords”. 

Second, you are being quite arrogant, you don’t control what I want to discuss, and what you think is a trivial matter is YOUR OWN opinion. 

Third, why wouldn’t people discuss scriptures that are unclear, so to try and gain clarity? Why on earth would that be considered bickering?

Fourth, just because a scripture is unclear to you then that means it’s unclear to everyone, and therefore it shouldn’t be discussed?

 

[Jodi]

Hi All,

Exodus 22:9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbor.

judges  – elohiym

Human judges in Exodus are called elohiym 4 times between Exodus 21 and 22.

 

[Ed J]

Hi Gene,

Thanks for explaining that to Jodi for me!

(A)ME:  what you explained seemed very close to what I told Ed J

ME: (B)I don’t see an explanation of that passage in John 10 by you, (C)would you care to explain?

Jodi,

There you go again focusing in again on the irrelevant (ref. first post on this page).

A) You didn’t say anything even close to Gene’s rather extensive explanation to you Jodi.
So quit pretending you did. Your words were convoluted and all over the place – and WRONG!

B) As I said before, but you were not paying attention: (C) Thanks for explaining that to Jodi for me!

Now can we move on ?

[Ed J]

(1) FALSE, I never responded back to you about anything, after you gave those three posts.
(2) GET OFF this topic then if you don’t want to discuss this topic, “God of gods and Lord of lords”.
(3) you are being quite arrogant, you don’t control what I want to discuss, and what you think is a trivial matter is YOUR OWN opinion.

Hi Jodi,

1) No, that’s exactly what I said: so it’s TRUE!

2) Are you saying that you are afraid to answer to me, and instead wish I would leave?
So you can continue to push falsehoods without having any accountability to the members?

3) Are you instead looking for Gene to keep patting you on the back, so you can feel like you’re always right?
Well he disagreed with you, and instead agreed with me: so what do you think about that? Always right still?

____________
God bless
Ed J

[Ed J]

(A1) why wouldn’t people discuss scriptures that are unclear, so to try and gain clarity? (A2)Why on earth would that be considered bickering?

(B1) just because a scripture is unclear to you (B2)then that means it’s unclear to everyone, and (B3)therefore it shouldn’t be discussed?

Hi Jodi,

This here is a classic example of what I mean by: “you are all over the place”
(A1+A2) There you go convoluting ideas together again (here just 2)
(B1+B2+B3) Convoluting more ideas together (this time 3)

A1) discuss scriptures that are unclear, to try and gain clarity – is what I do
A2) Bickering with those who don’t agree with your misconceptions – is what you do

B1) Spin
B2) More spin
B3) Even more spin

____________
God bless
Ed J

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

This is the definition of bickering, lol!

I was speaking to Gene not to you, so you should be mindful of that. As I said I have not replied to you since your questions, I have only replied to Gene.

YOU:

Do you really expect people to take you seriously,
when I gave you three posts to respond to, and you instead
respond to a Post (#864025) which I told you does not concern me???

ME: This is a FALSE STATEMENT

After your 3 posts I have not replied to you concerning #864025. 

YOU:There you go again focusing in again on the irrelevant (ref. first post on this page).

ME: My first post on this page is in direct response to your false statement, how convenient for you to want to call that irrelevant!!

 

 

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

I am not afraid to answer you at all. I actually was almost ready to submit a post to you answering your questions and then I got a notice to your post in the meantime, where you brought forth distraction by your false statement with your insults.

[Ed J]

Hi Ed J,

Okay I will rephrase,

(1)Scripture directly TEACHES us that as YHVH made Moses a god, (2)He likewise made Jesus a god.

(1a)Yes Moses was made ‘a god’ to Pharaoh, (1b)because Pharaoh did not believe YHVH was God.
/
(2)Everyone that Jesus was preaching to already knew that YHVH was God, so…
/
(2a)who are you claiming Jesus was made ‘a god’ to?
(2b)And for what purpose?
/
Those are two separate questions which I lined up according to your response,
so please answer both.: (2a)To Whom (2b)and for what purpose.
/
I agree with your point #1, but disagree with your point #2, and I explained why.
/
Now please try to defend your erroneous summation.

Hi Jody,

Please address these two questions: Labeled 2a and 2b

[Ed J]

Hi Ed J,

Yes please enlighten me that Joseph is not Jesus’s biological father.

First, Do you believe the genealogy in Matthew is Joseph’s genealogy?

Hi Jodi,

I’ll contrast your chart after we establish who Jesus father is.

So please answer my question

Hi Jodi,

Also address this post – when you get time of course

[Ed J]

Jodi,

Please desist from trying to bicker with me, ok?
I gave you the two posts I want you to address.

The third covers ground from post #864025, which you have quoted here:
YOU (post #864025): Your misunderstanding of John 10:34-36 does not concern me.
which I already told you does not concern me, and of which Gene already explained it to you for me.

Hi Jodi, (Here is my third post, which covers your misconception of John 10:34-36)

This clearly understood verse is enough to disprove your erroneous summation:

“ye are even my witnesses.
Is there ‘a God’ beside me? yea,
there is “no God”; I know not any.” (Isaiah 44:8)

Was this next quote not part of your post to Gene…

Psalm 82: 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. 2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

In it, it addresses what post #864025 references, which is John 10:34-36…
…as Psalm 82:1-7 is what Jesus is clearly referencing in John 10:34-36

Proving you calling Jesus ‘a god’ is totally erroneous, which
I told you THREE times now, and Gene also explaining why to you.
Now can you address my two posts, and desist from bickering with me?

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

We need some clarification here regarding 1a and 1 b as it directly relates to 2a and 2b.

As Moses did works with a purpose for both Egyptians and Israelites to know that YHVH was the true elohiym, Jesus did works for the purpose of Jews and Gentiles alike to believe YHVH was the only true elohiym .

Moses addresses Pharaoh NEVER saying he is an elohiym nor that Pharaoh needs to let people go because “he” says so. Moses directly tells Pharaoh that it is YHVH elohiym of Israel that says let my people go. Pharaoh never called Moses “an elohiym” and when speaking to Moses he asked Moses to ask YHVH to take away the frogs, the locusts..etc.

YHVH calls Moses “an elohiym” and Jesus quoted the scripture of YHVH calling men elohiym. Jesus and Moses were men who had received works or special possessions of YHVH, and for them it was for the purpose to perform specifically YHVH’s will that the people may believe in YHVH as the true elohiym.

YHVH is the only true elohiym, ruler and judge, because He alone exists with all authority by hHis great wisdom and power. Those who He calls elohiym rule and have authority over others through that which they received from YHVH, the only elohiym by His OWN RIGHT.   

In Exodus the people appointed as judges over the Israelites were called elohiym. In Psalms the rulers who oppressed their subjects were called elohiym, and YHVH destroys them. YHVH gives wisdom, knowledge, wealth, authority (power). YHVH sets up rulers (kings) and it is He that brings them down according to His will. The ruler King Tyrus corrupted his wisdom, he was said to be perfect until iniquity was found in him, he became prideful and YHVH cast him down from YHVH’s mountain. For only YHVH is the true elohiym, the true ruler and the true judge OVERALL, there is none besides YHVH. He is the elohiym of elohiym, the lord of lords.

2 a,b) YHVH had made Jesus our lord and Christ, he is given dominion overall the earth, over all the works of YHVH’s hands. YHVH, ruler and judge overall, our only true elohiym who is said to be an elohiym of elohiym, calls Jesus elohiym (according to Jesus’s words of YHVH in John 10, and YHVH’s words in Hebrews 1) because YHVH has appointed him a ruler and a judge, a king of kings overall the earth, where the one true elohiym YHVH, directs all his ways.

I have NEVER said that Jesus tells people to call him elohiym, or that Jesus declares of himself to be an elohiym. What I have said is that Jesus acknowledges that YHVH calls him an elohiym. What I have said is that YHVH calls them, to whom the word of YHVH came, elohiym. Likewise YHVH calls rulers elohiym. Likewise YHVH specifically said he made Moses an elohiym unto Pharaoh. Also Moses calls the judges, who are following the judgments that YHVH gave Moses to write down, elohiym.

[Ed J]

(1a) Moses was made ‘a god’ to Pharaoh, (1b)because Pharaoh did not believe YHVH was God.
/
(2a)who are you claiming Jesus was made ‘a god’ to?
(2b)And for what purpose?

Hi Ed J,

We need some clarification here regarding 1a and 1 b as it directly relates to 2a and 2b.

Hi Jodi,

Let me see if I unpacked what you said correctly,
since you provide long essays instead of simple answers.

2a Jesus was made ‘a god’ to the world.
2b because like Pharaoh, they too do not believe YHVH is God.

Did I capture the gist of what you are saying correctly?

____________
God bless
Ed J

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

I misspoke, 

The purpose of Moses being made a god to Pharaoh was not to get him to believe YHVH is the only true God, but to get him to believe that YHVH at least existed and Pharaoh should fear His capabilities so that in that fear he would do as YHVH asked, free the Israelites. As you know I’m sure, the Pharaoh and the Egyptians didn’t begin to worship YHVH as their true God after Moses and the Israelites fled.

 

 

[Jodi]

Hi Gene and Ed J,

I have been reading and rereading many scriptures. 

As I have said my understanding of elohiym means powers, which thus equals the power to rule and to judge, which would be why we see the first definition given to the word elohiym in the Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon is rulers, judges.

We see indeed that elohiym is translated to judges and those elohiym are humans who judge.

We see also indeed that elohiym is translated to gods, and those gods are identified as human rulers where they are likewise called “el” meaning god, god-like one, mighty one.

Whereas the judges are making judgments according to the commandments that YHVH had Moses write down, the human rulers spoken of by David are not ruling by following YHVH’s commands, quite the opposite. However the position of these rulers is controlled by YHVH as it is He that sets up rulers and brings them down.

In other words the position they hold and the level of might that they have and how long they have that might and hold their position is according to YHVH’s will, but what they do with their power in that position is left in their own hands to do as they will, and as they do not have YHVH’s righteousness upon them with Him directing all their ways, they sin.

YHVH is one, there is no one else of His kind.

He is an elohiym and there is no other elohiym like Him.

There fore He is a one of a kind elohiym, there is no other elohiym of His kind.

He is the Most High elohiym, He is the Almighty elohiym, He is greater than all, He is above all, the only elohiym who is all powerful, a ruler and judge overall heaven and earth. Any person who is a mighty one (el), any person who is a ruler or a judge (elohiym) YHVH has ultimate control over their position, it is He who sets them up as el or elohiym in the first place and it is He that brings them down.  This is why it is said unto Israel that YHVH your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome. This is why YHVH says that there are no elohiym besides him.

 

 

 

[Jodi]

 

YHVH says that there are no elohiym besides Him.

This does not mean that other elohiym do not exist, as we are directly told indeed other elohiym do exist, it means there are no elohiym that exist as YHVH is elohiym. No one brought YHVH into His position of ruler and judge overall, no one has control over His powers, whereas all others their position and powers are founded upon the elohiym YHVH according to His will.   

The judges in Exodus are called elohiym, they are all of the same kind of elohiym, human judges, giving judgements based on the commandments YHVH gave to Moses.

The elohiym in Psalms 82 are mighty men who oppress their people, they are all of the same kind of elohiym, human rulers.

The gods in John 10 are also of the same kind of elohiym, YHVH says they are gods as the word of YHVH came to them.

Elohiym is used in certain contexts with the applied meaning of a ruler or a judge.  

Jesus is made unto us as both a ruler and a judge by YHVH.

Apply to the word “God” below to mean a ruler and a judge.

Hebrews 1: 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Isaiah 11: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the sceptre of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

YHVH our elohiym is an elohiym of elohiym and a lord of lords.

YHVH is our ruler and our judge over all rulers and judges and He is our master over all masters.

There is NO other elohiym that has the power to rule over all other elohiym, only YHVH alone is THAT elohiym. 

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi……the word “el” means power, yes but El’ohim means A God, rather A false God or a real God,  and what that word means is “the power  you lean on or trust “in”.  We trust in Jesus not because he is “a” God, but because God is “in” him.  GOD PLAINLY TELL US IN SCRIPTURE HE IS THE ““ONLY” GOD THERE IS, and there is “None” else, and even saying there is “NO” OTHER God. But him. 

Isa 44:6…..Thus saith the Lord the king of Isreal  and his redeemer the LORD of hoIsa; I am the first, and the last; “and besides me there is “NO” God.

45:22….Look unto me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: “for I am God and there is “NONE” else.

Isa 46:9…..Remember the former things of old: for I am God, “and there is “NONE” else; I am God and there is “None” like me.

1 John 4:12…..”“NO MAN” has seen God at “any”  time . If we love one another, God dwells in us, and his love is perfected “in” us.  

But Jesus was seem by many right?, so how could he be a God.  Jodi Jesus did say he was a son of God and so are we that believe in him, but none of that makes or turns us into a God, including Jesus himself. There is no scripture where Jesus himself ever said he was a God, that I have yet seen.

I think part of the problem here is that you may view the word God as just the “El” part of el’ohim , and remember,  I see the word God as not a person but the “relationship” with a person or thingv, but not the thing itself.  Like this, LORD , YEHWEH OR YEHOVAH, is the person, and MY GOD IS my  “relationship” with him. Therefore I have “ONLY” “one”  God, his name is YEHWEH or YEHOVAH. “He” is my God. 

 

Peace and love to you and yours………..gene

[Ed J]

2a Jesus was made ‘a god’ to the world.
2b because like Pharaoh, they too do not believe YHVH is God.

Did I capture the gist of what you are saying correctly?

Hi Jodi,

It looks like you try to make simple things complicated.

Was your long and convoluted essay a “Yes” or a “No” to my simple question?

____________
God bless
Ed J

[Jodi]

Good Morning Gene,

I am just trying to make sense of how elohiym is used in scripture. We are directly given humans as being called elohiym, and in the case of Psalm 82, they are not using their powers righteously, they are oppressing people. They judge unjustly. YHVH is not “in” them.

These men don’t have supernatural powers, their power is their authority as rulers. I don’t take these men being called elohiym equates to them being considered gods, that’s the problem here, elohiym represents a ruler and or judge in this instance. 

There is none like YHVH, He is a ruler and a judge all in a class of His very own, as He has direct control overall other rulers and judges and no one has control over Him, the very reason why we are told that YHVH is elohiym of elohiym and a master of masters. 

 

 

 

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

You don’t understand my understanding of the word elohiym and if I don’t explain that, then more than likely you will SHAME and INSULT ME as you make false assumptions, as that is what you have already done.

Your questions don’t fit because I don’t see Jesus as a God, but as an appointed ruler and judge by YHVH, who does rule and judge justly because YHVH’s Spirit is upon him directing all his ways.

[Ed J]

Hi Ed J,

Your questions don’t fit because I don’t see Jesus as a God, but as an appointed ruler and judge by YHVH, who does rule and judge justly because YHVH’s Spirit is upon him directing all his ways.

Hi Jodi,

YAY!

Our conversation has produced fruit!

[Author]

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