Genesis 1, was god himself the us and our

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 19 2011,02:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2011,13:46) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,10:39) Speaking of Jesus. Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:   Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:   Let “US” means, the Father and his son, Jesus. Georg Amen Georg.  What more is there to say?   mike Georg…………..So to you ALL thing were CREATED BY JESUS right?, THEN WHY DOSE GOD SAY “HE (ALONE ) AND BY (HIMSELF)” CREATED THE EARTH AND ALL THE THING IN IT, And Why does Paul say GOD is the CREATOR of ALL things. Acts 17:24……> GOD that made the world and (ALL THINGS) therein, seeing that he is LORD of Heaven and earth, dwells not in temples made of hands. verse 25..> Neither is worshiped with mens hands, as thought he needed any thing, seeing he gives to all life. and breath, and (ALL THINGS). verse 26….> And has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined the times befopre appointed, and the bounds of their habitations;  verse 27….> That they should seek (THE LORD) , if haply they might feel after him and find him though he be not far from (EVERYONE OF US); verse 28…> For (IN HIM) we live and move, and have (OUR BEING) as certain of your poets have said, For we are also HIS OFFSPRING> verse 29, For as much then as we are the (OFFSPRING OF GOD) we ought not to think the the Godhead is like unto Gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and mans device…………..> verse 32…> Because He has appointed a day, in which He will judge the world in righteousness by that (MAN) whom HE Has (ORDAINED) where in he has given assurance unto all, in that (HE HAS RAISED ) him  from the DEAD. Georg please read it all and this should tell you who is the creator of all thing and that a MAN (Jesus) who was ordained by Him and raised from the dead was A MAN he plans to Judge us by and Not a Preexistent anything but simply a MAN raised from the DEAD. Also note it was GOD himself who does it ALL, no one else is or was involved in it.  IMO Georg ..go and check out the word BY and see how many different way it can and is translated, the word “BY”< there should be better translated FOR or for the cause of. Check it out. peace and love……………………………………gene

Did not Jesus say, “ALL” power was given to him in heaven and in earth? God “gave” him the power to create, but, yes, it was God's creation.

Eph 3:9   And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things “”by”” Jesus Christ:  

Col 1:16   For “”by him”” were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created “”by him””, and for him:  

Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,  

Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, “”by whom”” also he made the worlds;  

Since, what I'm doing is considered teaching, the “ONLY” responsibility I have is, be truthful; and by giving you these scriptures, I am.
I wonder if you realize, that by denying them as truth, you are in fact calling God a “liar”; think about that.

Here is one more in regard to Jesus being a man now.

2Cr 5:16   Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we “”have”” known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Georg

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 19 2011,01:24)

MIke…………Your are right it is my opinion, Just as it is Your opinion Jesus was the US and the OUR in Geneses ALSO. Do you have a Scripture that say that Jesus was the US or the OUr in Genesis”, NO YOU DON'T> But my OPINION shows GOD can speak of Himself as a Plural Form and be the US or the OUR in Genesis. You does not. My Opinion fits with GOD saying HE “ALONE” CREATED ALL THE EARTH AND EVERY THING IN IT BY “HIMSELF”, as he said he did. Yours does NOT> So i will go with MY OPINION rather than YOU OPINION> OK IMO

Hi Gene,

Yes, YOUR opinion implies that God is a “plural being”. You ought to fit right in with your beloved trinitarians on that one!

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,02:58)

Here is one more in regard to Jesus being a man now. 2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we “”have”” known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Georg

Wow Georg!

Where were you with that one when I needed it in the “bodies” thread?

That sums it up pretty well.

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2011,13:23)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 19 2011,01:24) MIke…………Your are right it is my opinion, Just as it is Your opinion Jesus was the US and the OUR in Geneses ALSO. Do you have a Scripture that say that Jesus was the US or the OUr in Genesis”,  NO YOU DON'T> But my OPINION shows GOD can speak of Himself as a Plural Form and be the US or the OUR in Genesis. You does not. My Opinion fits with GOD saying HE “ALONE” CREATED ALL THE EARTH AND EVERY THING IN IT BY “HIMSELF”, as he said he did. Yours does NOT> So i will go with MY OPINION rather than YOU OPINION>  OK IMO Hi Gene, Yes, YOUR opinion implies that God is a “plural being”.  You ought to fit right in with your beloved trinitarians on that one!   peace and love, mike

MIke………..How you lie , you accuse me of being beloved to trinitarians which is nothing but a LIE and anyone that has been here know this is a lie. In fact it is you and who are more in line with their teachings then i ever was. You do believe the Jesus was a morphed being right I don't trinitarians do and you do also. You both ARE SEPARATISTS and SEPARATE Jesus from our exact identity, not Me.

peace and love……………………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,02:58)

Eph 3:9   And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things “”by”” Jesus Christ:   Col 1:16   For “”by him”” were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created “”by him””, and for him:

Georg………Do yourself a favor and look up the word ” BY” and the many different ways it is translated some 70 different ways as i recall.  If you do a good search you will find that, that passage should better read (FOR or or because of Jesus), not by at all. IMO

Check it our Georg and while you are at it check out the word “THROUGH”,  once you have done this you may come to see that GOD (ALONE)and BY (HIMSELF) Created everything in existence.

Remember the SUM of GOD'S Word is TRUTH. If what you are saying does not meat the rest of Scriptures that show different then there must be a error and this idea Jesus created everything is in contradiction of many scriptures, not just a FEW. IMO

peace and love………………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 21 2011,02:46)

MIke………..How you lie , you accuse me of being beloved to trinitarians which is nothing but a LIE and anyone that has been here know this is a lie.

Hi Gene,

So………..how does it feel? How do you think I felt being categorized in with trinitarians by you hundreds of times when I've done nothing but fight AGAINST the trinity since I joined HN?

Well……….now YOU know how it feels. Not too good, huh? Maybe you'll remember how that made YOU feel the next time you think about posting that crap to me or Irene or Pierre.

peace and love,
mike

[GeneBalthrop]

MIke……….The difference is You do believe in some of the same things about Jesus as the Trinitarians do by your own admission , You do believe Jesus Preexisted his berth on earth that same as they do , not with standing you believe He was a Morphed angel or some kind of demigod. and they believe he was a God, So i not that far of in aliening your false teaching with them and the Gnostic's Right? After all you and Irene and Pierre do teach Jesus as different them us and separate his identity from us the same as they do. So you can see you are truly closer to them then i am. IMO

gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 22 2011,03:21)

MIke……….The difference is You do believe in some of the same things about Jesus as the Trinitarians do by your own admission

As do you apparently. You seem to believe in a plural God, just like they do. I don't. I know that YHVH our God is ONE.

mike

[GeneBalthrop]

MIke………….Go do a Search on the WORD ELOHIM and you will find it is a PLURAL WORD. God consists of SEVEN DISTINCT SPIRITS (INTELLECTS) these are the seven Spirit (intellects) of one GOD. Just as you are a Plural being right, you have arms and legs eyes hands ears , but that all equals ONE Being YOU> Can you begin to see GOD also has seven distinct (attributes) of His being . IMO

peace and love………………………………….gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 23 2011,03:08)

MIke………….Go do a Search on the WORD ELOHIM and you will find it is a PLURAL WORD

Hi Gene,

I have a better idea.  Why don't YOU go and read my posts in the “Plural God” debate I had with Jack a few months ago.  I researched diligently and as a result have probably forgotten more about the plural word “elohim” than you will ever know.    (That was just a joke, Gene.)

But seriously, I know MUCH about that plural word, the “plural of majesty” and the many other plural words used in reference to single things.

And my arms and legs do not make me a “plural being”.  They are parts of my SINGULAR being.  

peace and love,
mike

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 21 2011,05:12)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 19 2011,02:58) Eph 3:9   And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things “”by”” Jesus Christ:   Col 1:16   For “”by him”” were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created “”by him””, and for him:   Georg………Do yourself a favor and look up the word ” BY” and the many different ways it is translated some 70 different ways as i recall.  If you do a good search you will find that, that passage should better read (FOR or or because of Jesus), not by at all. IMO Check it our Georg and while you are at it check out the word “THROUGH”,  once you have done this you may come to see that GOD (ALONE)and BY (HIMSELF) Created everything in existence. Remember the SUM of GOD'S Word is TRUTH. If what you are saying does not meat the rest of Scriptures that show different then there must be a error and this idea Jesus created everything is in contradiction of many scriptures, not just a FEW. IMO peace and love………………………………..gene

“BY”; “IN”; “IS”; “IT”; “IF”;

These are in fact BIG words, and I can see why you spend so much time studying them.

My advise? save a little time for scripture.

Georg

[GeneBalthrop]

Georg scripture us those word a lot, and they translate the in 30-100, different ways, so maybe you need to study them more and think about how they are used more and then maybe you can begin to see how they can and (ARE) misapplied. IMO

peace and love …………………….Gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2011,13:23)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 23 2011,03:08) MIke………….Go do a Search on the WORD ELOHIM and you will find it is a PLURAL WORD Hi Gene, I have a better idea.  Why don't YOU go and read my posts in the “Plural God” debate I had with Jack a few months ago.  I researched diligently and as a result have probably forgotten more about the plural word “elohim” than you will ever know.    (That was just a joke, Gene.) But seriously, I know MUCH about that plural word, the “plural of majesty” and the many other plural words used in reference to single things. And my arms and legs do not make me a “plural being”.  They are parts of my SINGULAR being.   peace and love, mike

Mike………..That is what i said your parts are a part of a singular beong. That was an example of multiple parts making a singular being I call that a Un-Plural existence, as say a car is something that is one as a whole but is not one in existence it is a assembly of many parts, so in that sense it is Un-Plural in existence. THAT HOLDS TRUE WITH OUR BODIES it is one body made up of many parts, this also holds true with GOD. Not to mention any scholar of Jewish Rabi or Hebrew Scholar will tell you the same thing. So don't what “intense study” you did nor do i care either, but all i have ever read and studied show ELOHIM as a PLURAL EXPRESSION OF A SINGULAR GOD. So God could easily say Let (US) Make Man in (OUR) Image, referencing the attributes of His Seven SPIRITS (INTELLECTS) IMO

peace and lvoe……………………………….gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 24 2011,09:17)

but all i have ever read and studied show ELOHIM as a PLURAL EXPRESSION OF A SINGULAR GOD.

Like I said, go read the debate………at least MY posts. Did you know Nebuchadnezzar was called the “KINGS of kings”? The first plural word “KINGS”, exactly like elohim, denotes majesty. The second one means more than one king. So the phrase means that Nebuchadnezzar is the most majestic King among all the other kings.

Canaan is prophesied to become the SLAVES of slaves. The plural SLAVES denotes that he will be the “most” slave that anyone could be.

Solomon's love song is called the SONGS of songs. The SONGS indicates it is a majestic, or grandiose love song, better than the other love songs.

Do you get the picture? Instead of capitalizing the first letter or even the whole word like we do in English, the Hebrews used the plural of the word to indicate grandiosity. It is most commonly called the “plural of majesty”. So the plural word elohim means only one of two things: the SINGULAR el mentioned is very majestic, as in God, or more than one el are mentioned, as in “gods”. It never refers to a “plural being”, whatever that is.

peace and love,
mike

[Baker]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 24 2011,09:04)

Georg scripture us those word a lot, and they translate the in 30-100, different ways, so maybe you need to study them more and think about how they are used more and then maybe you can begin to see how they can and (ARE) misapplied. IMO peace and love …………………….Gene

They are indeed misapplied by those who have no understanding of its contexts.

Georg

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 24 2011,13:30)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 24 2011,09:17) but all i have ever read and studied show ELOHIM as a PLURAL EXPRESSION OF A SINGULAR  GOD. Like I said, go read the debate………at least MY posts.  Did you know Nebuchadnezzar was called the “KINGS of kings”?  The first plural word “KINGS”, exactly like elohim, denotes majesty.  The second one means more than one king.  So the phrase means that Nebuchadnezzar is the most majestic King among all the other kings. Canaan is prophesied to become the SLAVES of slaves.  The plural SLAVES denotes that he will be the “most” slave that anyone could be. Solomon's love song is called the SONGS of songs.  The SONGS indicates it is a majestic, or grandiose love song, better than the other love songs. Do you get the picture?  Instead of capitalizing the first letter or even the whole word like we do in English, the Hebrews used the plural of the word to indicate grandiosity.  It is most commonly called the “plural of majesty”.  So the plural word elohim means only one of two things:  the SINGULAR el mentioned is very majestic, as in God, or more than one el are mentioned, as in “gods”.  It never refers to a “plural being”, whatever that is. peace and love, mike

Mike……….And like I said I could care less about YOUR interpretation of the Word Elohim, I believe the Hebrew scholars know far more then you concerning that word. And I also see it the way they do too, GOD OR ELOHIM IS A UN-PLURAL EXPRESSION rather you understand that or not makes no differences to the truth about it. IMO

peace and love………………………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 24 2011,20:41)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 24 2011,09:04) Georg scripture us those word a lot, and they translate the in 30-100, different ways, so maybe you need to study them more and think about how they are used more and then maybe you can begin to see how they can and (ARE) misapplied. IMO peace and love …………………….Gene They are indeed misapplied by those who have no understanding of its contexts. Georg

Georg……….Right as preexistences and trinitarians do. But they had help over the years because those who translated them were themselves Gnostic preexistences and trinitarians so they naturally translated those scriptures their way, to meet their false dogmas even if they had to tweak them a little right? The problem is the amount of people who bought into those LIES. IMO

peace and love………………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 25 2011,02:26)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 24 2011,13:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 24 2011,09:17) but all i have ever read and studied show ELOHIM as a PLURAL EXPRESSION OF A SINGULAR  GOD. Like I said, go read the debate………at least MY posts.  Did you know Nebuchadnezzar was called the “KINGS of kings”?  The first plural word “KINGS”, exactly like elohim, denotes majesty.  The second one means more than one king.  So the phrase means that Nebuchadnezzar is the most majestic King among all the other kings. Canaan is prophesied to become the SLAVES of slaves.  The plural SLAVES denotes that he will be the “most” slave that anyone could be. Solomon's love song is called the SONGS of songs.  The SONGS indicates it is a majestic, or grandiose love song, better than the other love songs. Do you get the picture?  Instead of capitalizing the first letter or even the whole word like we do in English, the Hebrews used the plural of the word to indicate grandiosity.  It is most commonly called the “plural of majesty”.  So the plural word elohim means only one of two things:  the SINGULAR el mentioned is very majestic, as in God, or more than one el are mentioned, as in “gods”.  It never refers to a “plural being”, whatever that is. peace and love, mike Mike……….And like I said I could care less about YOUR interpretation of the Word Elohim, I believe the Hebrew scholars know far more then you concerning that word. And I also see it the way they do too,  GOD OR ELOHIM IS A UN-PLURAL EXPRESSION rather you understand that or not makes no differences to the truth about it. IMO peace  and love………………………………………….gene

What a cop-out, Gene. And what does “UN-PLURAL” mean? SINGULAR?

Where do you think I got my info in the first place? And once again, you balk at the actual SCRIPTURAL proof I show you. Not even one little question about any of the scriptures.

Show me the NON-TRINITARIAN Hebrew scholars you're talking about. Give me the link if you don't mind.

And while you're at it, explain to me from the SCRIPTURAL evidence I've showed you how I'm mistaken. Explain to me what YOU and your scholars think “SONGS of songs” means. Or “SLAVES of slaves”. Or “KINGS of kings”. Explain why Nebuchadnezzar was a HE, not a THEM, yet he was the KINGS of kings.

Or, better yet, just bury your head in the sand. You're good at it. I really can't even believe your response, Gene. It is a pure case of deliberately ignoring factual and scriptural information once again because it doesn't align with YOUR doctrine.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 25 2011,09:03)

Georg……….Right as preexistences and trinitarians do. But they had help over the years because those who translated them were themselves Gnostic preexistences and trinitarians so they naturally translated those scriptures their way, to meet their false dogmas even if they had to tweak them a little right? The problem is the amount of people who bought into those LIES. IMO

How about this one, Gene?

John 1:3 NIV
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

WITHOUT HIM, nothing was made.  I don't find “thought of someone in God's mind” as a defintion for the Greek word “autos”.  How could anything have been made with him or through him or in him or by him or whatever word you choose, if “HIM” didn't even exist until he was born of Mary?
mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike………..Jesus was the fulfillment of what GOD had Planed all along for MANKIND , Everything in creation was for this purpose, it was for the specific purpose God made (ALL) things in the earthly creation it was for that very purpose. Just look up the word in the concordance and it will tell you what those word truly are referring to. Take the word “Before”, in old English means in position off as in authority so when Jesus said he was “before” Abraham he was speaking of his place of importance and when John used those same word “HE WAS PREFERRED “BEFORE” me, YOU PEOPLE TRANSLATE that to mean an existence of some kind when in fact it has nothing to do with being born before any one at all. IMO

peace and love………………………………………….gene

[Author]

Posts