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Gene,
I do not know if Ed has stopped sinning or not but I do know if you should sin then confess your sin and God will wash away it away. If we believe this then how do we calculate the past sins against us? If we are currently sinning then what difference is there between the gospel of Christ and the Law of Moses which also made allowances for men to continue to sin.
Denying man is free to choose is denying man is guilty of his sins and was given the power to overcome by the willful self sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his resurrection.
Except for what I said above I agree with the Ed on the spirit behind his tenet though not perhaps in his words. God has given man the ability to stop sinning though faith in Jesus Christ but that faith means you will adhere to the true doctrine of Christ for no other will do.
Kerwin…….GOD HAS COCLUDED “ALL” UNDER SIN, THAT HE MIGHT HAVE MERCY ON ALL. IF WE COULD SELFWILL OURSELVES OUT OF SINNING , THERE WOULD OBVISELY BE NO NEED FOR THE SACRIFFICE OF JESUS, WHY WOULD I NEED GOD TO “WORK” in me both to “WILL” AND DO OF “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE, if i could freely will it myself?
All SO-CALLED free willers are EGOTISTIC PEOPLE. HAVING A FORM OF GODLYNESS BUT DENY THE POWER THEREFOFF. THEY DON’T THINK THEY NEED GOD’s “POWER” TO BECONE RIGHTIOUS, WHY BECAUSE THEY ARE A GOD UNTO THEMSELVES, THEY CAN DO IT THEMSELVES, THEY DO NOT BELIEVE THEY ARE BEING “CREATED” UNTO RIGHTIOUSNESS, BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THEY CREATE THEMSELVES RIGHTIOUS, BY THEIR OWN SO-CALLED FREE WILL, AND IN THIS WAY THEY ARE DENYING THE POWER OF GOD IN THERE LIVES. WHO NEED A GOD WHEN YOU CAN ACHIEVE IT YOURSELF, THESE EGOTISTICAL PEOPLE ARE SELFCENTERED LIARS, WHO NEED NO GOD BUT THEMSELVES. THEY GIVE THEMSELVES ALL THE GLORY, FOR ALL ACHIEVEMENTS IN THEIR LIFE, these are self willed people are an offence to GOD, IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
EDJ……..NO I DID NOT USE A WILL THAT WAS FREE because no such will exists, I USED A WILL THAT WAS INFLUENCED, by my mind to answer your false assumptions.
Denying what the apostles Paul and John has said about sin being still in us, is a denying of the truth by a decieved mind, as far as i am concerned . So do you also believe you are allready perfected also, having no need of anything also. EDJ, HERE IS A TEST FOR YOUR freewilll, common sense should tell you if your will was free of all influences it simply would not be a will. A WILL IS THE PRODUCT OF WHAT IS created it, and that is the causality, and theeffect is what is done. A WILL IS THE RESULT OF CAUSEALITY OR IT SIMPLY WOULD NOT BE A WILL IN THE FIRST PLACE .
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
Gene,
Kerwin…….GOD HAS COCLUDED “ALL” UNDER SIN, THAT HE MIGHT HAVE MERCY ON ALL. IF WE COULD SELFWILL OURSELVES OUT OF SINNING , THERE WOULD OBVISELY BE NO NEED FOR THE SACRIFFICE OF JESUS, WHY WOULD I NEED GOD TO “WORK” in me both to “WILL” AND DO OF “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE, if i could freely will it myself?
Your argument as it sit is that because I am controlled by my own evil desires I have no free will. Am addict is also controlled by their desires. Does an addict have free will. Some of them clearly stop giving into the temptation and go on the wagon for a time. It is true that many addicts feel powerless in themselves to overcome their own desires but it has been shown that through faith in anything, even an idol, they can overcome. If Bill Gates were to offer a multitude of addicts a million dollars if they went with out their drug of choice for a time then at least some of them would accomplish that goal depending on whether their desire for the money or their desire for their drug of choice was greater.
God gives true Christians the power to overcome all their temptations and without God they do not have the power to do so.
Is that lack of power a lack of free will?
You claim it is and I claim it is not.
The reason I claim it is not is because it is I that chooses to sin.
Kerwin…….THE APOSTLE PAUL CHOSE NOT TO SIN, BUT WHAT DID HE SAY, ” the good that i would do, i do not, but the thing i chose not to do , that i do, O wrethed man that i am , who can deliever me from this body of death, so Paul willed not to sin, but that did not change him he still sinned, so if his will was free, then why could he not do, what he willed to do? , after all you believe his will was free to do what ever he wanted to do right?
Hears something that explains my point, there was a time when i had a addiction to nicotine, i willed to quite that descusting habbit that would eventually have taken my life, so i tried everything i could to quite, i would put nearly full packs of cigarettes in water, saying each time i was done with cigarettes and within a couple of hour i was diging out snipes from my car astray to get another tast of nicotine, i tryed everything imaginable nicorets, i mean everything humanly possible for a full year, and after a year i gave up and realized no matter how much i “willed” and tried to quite smoking i could never quite on my own, and then i decided to take to the LORD MY GOD, and i got on my knees and took it to Him, i told him i was done trying, and if he would not remove this habbit from me i was not going to try again, i would just live the rest of my life smoking, i said to him i would give it one more try but unless he took it away from me i was not going to try any longer because it was simply useless, i got up from that prayer and still had a half a pack of cigarettes in my shirt pocket, i waited for the desire for another cigarette, an hour went by, then two, then four, there was not any withdrawal symptoms at all, this went on for a day then a week then a month, it was as if i had never smoked a cigarette in my life, not so much as a single desire for a cigarette from the time i got up from that prayer to this day around 17 or 18 years later. Now the reason i am telling you this is to illustrate to you, that no matter how much i willed to quite i could not quite that filthy descusting habbit on my own, even after a whole year of intentely trying to quite myself.
So did me willing to be free of this addiction work, no, why? Because i was held captive by the addiction, and so was my will also, it was not free at all, but was being held captive. Only GOD THE FATHER WAS THE ONE WHO COULD SET ME FREE FROM THAT ADDICTION, NOT ME NO MATTER HOW MUCH I TRIED OR WILLED IT. Again i maintain there exist no such thing as a will that is “FREE”. ALL WILL’S ARE SUBJECT TO CAPTIVITY AND THEREFORE ARE NOT FREE. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
lol. I see you have freely chosen to post on Heaven Net again. Or did you have no choice in the matter? lol.
EDJ……..NO I DID NOT USE A WILL THAT WAS FREE because no such will exists, I USED A WILL THAT WAS INFLUENCED, by my mind to answer your false assumptions.
Denying what the apostles Paul and John has said about sin being still in us, is a denying of the truth by a decieved mind, as far as i am concerned . So do you also believe you are allready perfected also, having no need of anything also. EDJ, HERE IS A TEST FOR YOUR freewilll, common sense should tell you if your will was free of all influences it simply would not be a will. A WILL IS THE PRODUCT OF WHAT IS created it, and that is the causality, and theeffect is what is done. A WILL IS THE RESULT OF CAUSEALITY OR IT SIMPLY WOULD NOT BE A WILL IN THE FIRST PLACE .
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
Hi Gene,
With all due respect, YOU don’t know what you’re talking about.
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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODEdj………so say you, but if your will was free meaning without any restraint or control you would simply be an idiot. Without the ability of any determination, or reason of any kind, just a free radical drifiting around in endless space not subject to anything, God or man, no ability to have fear, love, no ability to have any reasonable thought, you could never make up you mind about anything becuse no cause would effect, you could never be a child of God because you would be free from his will by your completely free none subject to anything freewill. A true GOD UNTO YOURSELF, A SELF SERVING EGOTISTICAL BEING.
The word freewill is an OXYMORON, BECAUSE NO WILL that is free exists. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene
T8……Posting here has nothing to do with a will that is free, it has to do with my desire to post , which drives my will to. The freedom offered by this site allows me to expression of my thoughts, which are driving my mind, nothing free about it. T8, have you went to the site i posted and read what L. RAY SMITH WROTE ABOUT FREEWILLS, GIVE IT A READ AND MAYBE YOU MIGHT CHANGE YOUR MIND ON THIS SUBJECT.
PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU AND YOURS. …………….gene
Edj………so say you, but if your will was free meaning without any restraint or control you would simply be an idiot. Without the ability of any determination, or reason of any kind, just a free radical drifiting around in endless space not subject to anything, God or man, no ability to have fear, love, no ability to have any reasonable thought, you could never make up you mind about anything becuse no cause would effect, you could never be a child of God because you would be free from his will by your completely free none subject to anything freewill. A true GOD UNTO YOURSELF, A SELF SERVING EGOTISTICAL BEING.
The word freewill is an OXYMORON, BECAUSE NO WILL that is free exists. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene
Hi Gene,
No, ‘CaptiveLiberty’ is an OXYMORON.
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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODHi Gene,
Say: ‘there is no such thing as FreeWill’ five times real fast,
and maybe, just maybe, you can ‘influence’ others to believe it; well, what do you think?___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODYEA, they might become captivated by your words influencing their thoughts – well, it’s worth a try, right?
Edj……Why restore to personal attacks, because i disagree with you , i am not trying to captivate anyone here, you have only produced one scripture which does not address the actual will it self, and then draw all kind of conclusions about it, that is all i have ever ask anyone here is to produce a single scripture that says a man has a WILL THAT IS FREE “IN” HIM, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WILL “ITSELF” NOT THE LIBERTY TO EXCERCISE IT. I HAVE ASK YOU TO READ WHAT SOMEONE ELSE SAID ABOUT IT, AND YOU EVEN POSTED A VIDEO YOURSELF THAT SHOWED THERE EXISTS NO SUCH THING AS A WILL THAT IS FREE. YOU ONLY PRODUCED A SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS A MAN HAD FREEDOM TO VOLUNTER HIS SERVICES, BUT NONE OF THAT ADDRESS THE WILL ITSELF, ONLY THE LIBERTY TO EXCERCISE THAT CAPTIVATED WILL. SO YOU RESORT TO SLANDEROUS TALK AND ALL THE TIME TELL US YOU HAVE NO SIN, ever hear of the word hypocrite. I am done speaking to you about this topic.
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Gene,
THE APOSTLE PAUL CHOSE NOT TO SIN, BUT WHAT DID HE SAY, ” the good that i would do, i do not, but the thing i chose not to do , that i do,
I understand what Paul is talking about as I find myself in the same circumstances quite often. It is like there is two of me one who desires to do as God commands and the other who chooses behave like a beast. The beast is stronger if I am without God. He is still me. I am in conflict but it is myself I am in conflict with.
Kerwin……..That is correct, we all have that working in us, our mind will one thing but we all find another law (force compliance) working in our members or body, these two forces are contary to one another, causing us to exist in a wretched state, as Paul described it. So obviously our will are not free they are held in captivity to these forces which Paul recons as laws. Well know you are not alone brother, all true believers experience the same thing. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Gene,
By the nature of this world of sin we are captives to our own nature of sin but by the nature of God we are freed if we obey the message of salvation.
By the nature of this world of sin I am at war with myself and only Jesus can set me truly free from that war so that I sin no more.
Kerwin……..so you go from one type of captivity to another, so christ led captive a host OF CAPTIVES.
Weare told in 2 Ths 2:23-26…..But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24, and the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient. 25, In meekness instructing those that oppose “themselves”; if God peradventure (will “give” them repentence), to the acknowledging of the truth; 26, and that they may recover themselves, out of the snare of the devil, who are taken “CAPTIVE” BY HIM AT (HIS WILL).
Now where is a will that is “free” in all that. First of all it say God must give them the repentence, doesnt seem to come from there so-called “freewills” that a man repents by, it says it is given by God, and even moreit also saythedevil can take then “CAPTIVE” AT “HIS” WILL, HOW IS THAT OSSIBLE IF OUR WILL ARE INDEED “FREE”
peace and love to you and yours kerwin………………..gene
Gene,
I cannot be a captive of that which I choose to do. I am a servant but not a slave.
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid
This is only necessary if the person has a choice or if it is the string that controls the person. So it seems you believe God is using Paul to control the actions of those that hear Paul’s words. That is more manipulation than control even then as manipulate can mean “to manage or utilize skillfully”. It can also be interpretative as control as in ” to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one’s own advantage but that accuses God of evil and I hope none are willing to go there though I fear too many are. To me God is a good manager.
Kerwin…….your post does not deal with the issue of my post, how can a person will repentence if God give it, and how can a person be taken “CAPTIVE” BY THE WILL OF ANOTHER IF HIS WILL is truly “free”, Obvisely that would be impossible for any thing to control or “CAPTIVATE” anyone if our WILLS we “FREE” , IF A PERSONS MIND OR HEART IS HELD CAPTIVE SO IS HE AND HIS WILL.
AGAIN I BELIEVE YOUR GETTING MIXED UP WHAT I AM SAYING, I TALKING about us having freedom to express our “captivated” WILLS, BUT HOW THE WILL “ITSELF” IS HELD “CAPTIVE” and therefore itself is not free.
Peace and love to you and yours…………..gene
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