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the word freewill is an OXYMORON
Hi Gene,
No, but the words “captive liberty” are an OXYMORON – so it is really you who believes in an oxymoron.
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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODEDJ……..NOT REALLY, WE ARE HELD CAPTIVE BY THE THOUGHTS OF OUR MINDS, BUT WE HAVE LIBERTY FROM GOD TO EXERCISE those captivated wills. That is not an OXYMORON, TO SAY A WILL IS FREE WHEN IT “ITSELF” IS NOT THAT IS AN OXYMORON. YOU SOME HOW CAN’T seem to understand what i am saying. What do you think SCRIPTURE MEANS WHERE SAY HE CAME TO SET THE CAPTIVE FREE MEANS?
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Kerwin……..being told by God to make a choice has nothing to do with what is causing that choice as being free from influiences, While GOD MAY REQUIRES A CHOICE IT IS APSOLUTELY A FACT A PERSON WILL ONLY CHOSE WHAT IS THE GREATEST INFLUENCE WORKING IN HIS OR HER MIND. THAT CHOICE IS NOT BASED ON ANYTHING FREE WHATSOEVER. FORCING A CHOICE ONLY BRINGS OUT WHAT IS CAPTIVATING THE PERSON WHO IS TOLD TO MAKE THAT CHOICE, AND THAT CHOICE WILL ALWAY BE WHAT IS INFLUENCING THAT MIND THE MOST. You like others are getting GOD giving us liberty to excercise our captivated wills mixed up with that meaning our wills THEMSELVES are free. Nothing can be further from the truth.
Had you read the arguments againt freewill , you posted for me to read you would understood that. Like EDJ who posted a video that also proves there is no freewill, he can’t precieve it. That is why i ask you to go to the site i posted and read what L RAY SMITH SAID AND ALL THE SCRIPTURES HE USED TO BACK UP WHAT HE SAID , YOU WOULD EASELY UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS AND NEVER WAS A WILL THAT WAS FREE “ITSELF”. NOW I READ YOUR REQUEST, WHY DON’T YOU RETURN THE FAVOR AND READ WHAT L RAY SMITH HAS SAID AND TELL ME WHAT YOU FIND IN WHAT HE SAID. I AM NOT PUSHING WHAT HE SAYS BECAUSE I ALREAD KNEW MOST OF WHAT HE HAS BROUGHT OUT ANYWAY.
KERWIN THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WILL THAT “ITSELF” IS FREE, OR EVERYSTHING WOULD JUST BE A CRAP SHOOT, THERE COULD BE NO SUCH THING AS ANY PREDESTINATION or PROPHESY BECAUSE A FREEWILL WOULD ELIMINATE THAT FROM HAPPENING, God coul not predict anyones life because it all would depend on his or hers own will that was free of any influences, if will were truly free. COMMON SENSE SHOULD TELL YOU THAT.
peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene
Gene,
KERWIN THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WILL THAT “ITSELF” IS FREE, OR EVERYSTHING WOULD JUST BE A CRAP SHOOT,
What you are defining as free will is not free will because it is not controlled by the person whose will it is. An individual has free will when they are not controlled by outside forces but they must have control themselves.
Google’s definition.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one’s own discretion.
EDJ……..NOT REALLY, WE ARE HELD CAPTIVE BY THE THOUGHTS OF OUR MINDS, BUT WE HAVE LIBERTY FROM GOD TO EXERCISE those captivated wills. That is not an OXYMORON, TO SAY A WILL IS FREE WHEN IT “ITSELF” IS NOT THAT IS AN OXYMORON. YOU SOME HOW CAN’T seem to understand what i am saying. What do you think SCRIPTURE MEANS WHERE SAY HE CAME TO SET THE CAPTIVE FREE MEANS?
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Hi Gene,
Sinners are held captive to sin, he came to set us free from sinning.
If you still sin Gene, then you are held captive to sin.[size=15]Do you still sin Gene?[/size] (<– please answer)
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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODEDJ….YES ANS SO DO YOU………NOW IF WE ARE HELD CAPTIVE BY SIN THEN SO IS THE WILL. PAUL SAID CLEARLY THAT THERE WAS NOGOOD THING THAT DWELT IN HIS FLESH “BECAUSE TO WILL WAS PRESENT”. HE DIDNOT SAY BECAUSE A WILL THAT WAS FREE WAS PRESENT NOW DID HE? NO BUT ACAPTIVATED WILL WAS PRESENT HARDLY FREE AT ALL. NOT SOMUCH AS ONE SCRIPTURE IN THE INTIRE BIBLE SAYS A MAN “POSSES” A WILL THE IS FREE, WHICH MEANS A NON INFLUENCED WILL. IF TBERE IS POST IT , AND I DON’T MEAN A SCRIPTURE THAT SAY A MAN VOLUNTARILY DOING SOMETHING, BECAUSE HE DESIRED or wanted TO, driven by what was influencin his will either.
If you are so sure we do have a will that is free “itself” produce a scripture that specifically says that, not a man having liberty to do what his driven and influnced will desires to do. I have never said we are not granted the liberty to excercise our captivated will now have i? You seem unable to understand the difference in that. If a person lets a dog free in his back yard, it has freedom to do what it wills to do right, but it will only do what is driving it to do. So while the dog does have freedom to rome the yard , it only can do whats in dogs to do, they are held captive by whats in them, nothing more and nothing less.
Another point is if man possesed a will that was totally free, why does he even need JESUS TO COME AND SET HIM FREE, WHY CAN’T he just will himself to be free, after all he has a “freewill” doesn’t he? If he can’t do that then how is his will free? Again the word freewill is an OXYMORON, no such will exists. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Kerwin……same question i ask EDJ, if our wills were free, why did Jesus come to set the captives free, why could we not just will ourselves free, seening we all have wills that are free, and if our wills are still free then what good would it do for him to set us free in the first place seening we still have freewills, it wouldn’t matter because we could all will ourselves back into sin again, so freewillers are never truly saved because they could freewill themselves back again for all eternity, they could go back and forth for ever right, seening all our wills are free to do what ever the want to do. There could be “NO” absolutely decisive salvation, because chance would always be there in order to maintain a will being TOTALLY free.
peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
Do you still sin Gene?
EDJ….YES ANS SO DO YOU
No Sir,
I stopped sinning! But apparently you are still held captive to sin
Gene,
if our wills were free, why did Jesus come to set the captives free
He did not come to set our wills free from sin or he would not have said “My Father, if possible, let this cup pass from me! Yet not what I will, but what you will.” and therefore shows he has a will that is not always in accordance with God’s. A will he freely chooses to make captive to God.
Paul speaks of the captivity and freedom.
Romans 7:21-25New English Translation (NET Bible)
21 So, I find the law that when I want to do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God in my inner being. 23 But I see a different law in my members waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
So the mind(intellect) of a righteous man is a captive desiring to be free and Jesus seems to be speaking of the will of his members he freely surrenders to God.
So perhaps the will of the intellect is an unwilling captive of sin. That would be the devil made me do it defense. True Christians are set free so they can resist him. The fact they were able to freely choose to submit their will to God reveals they have free will of some type.
The wicked, at best, want a limited freedom from sin for in their mind they love darkness.
Kerwin……..if the minds is held captive, so is the will. No will works by itself apart from the mind. It is the mind that makes upour will. TELL me this why did PAUL SAY “I FIND NO GOOD THING IN MY FLESH, BECAUSE TO “WILL” IS PRESENT.” Why did PAUL relate his will as not a good thing.
REMEMBER WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT WILLS HERE BUT “FREE” WILLS, NOW IF THE WILL IS FREE WHY THEN WOULD JESUS EVEN SAY “NOT” MY WILL , AFTER ALL WE ARE FREE TO DO WHAT OUR WILLS WANT TO RIGHT. AND IF WE CAN’T because we don’t allow them, then HOW IS OUR WILLS FREE, why would a person will wirh a will that is free even go against GOD’S WILL IN THE FIRST PLACE. Why because it is held captive by the cercumstances surrounding it. It apears by what Jesus said his will was not free to do what he wanted , why because his will was prevented by the WILL of God. Now if it was prevented by the will of God then his will was not free at all now was it. All will that remain free can never be subject to the will of GOD. THEY WOULD BE INDIVIDUALLS ACTING OUT THEIR OWN WILLS free and, SEPERATE FROM God’s will. Most desire this kind of existence they are a GOD UNTO THEMSELVES, FREE APART FROM GOD AND HIS WILL,THEY MAINTAIN a FREE WILL STATUS. EXACTLY WHAT Adam and Eve did, when their influenced wills broke away from GOD’S WILL. THE CARNAL MIND WANT A WILL THAT IS FREE, FROM GOD THAT IS.
Kerwin……..if the minds is held captive, so is the will. No will works by itself apart from the mind. It is the mind that makes upour will. TELL me this why did PAUL SAY “I FIND NO GOOD THING IN MY FLESH, BECAUSE TO “WILL” IS PRESENT.” Why did PAUL relate his will as not a good thing.
REMEMBER WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT WILLS HERE BUT “FREE” WILLS, NOW IF THE WILL IS FREE WHY THEN WOULD JESUS EVEN SAY “NOT” MY WILL , AFTER ALL WE ARE FREE TO DO WHAT OUR WILLS WANT TO RIGHT. AND IF WE CAN’T because we don’t allow them, then HOW IS OUR WILLS FREE, why would a person will wirh a will that is free even go against GOD’S WILL IN THE FIRST PLACE. Why because it is held captive by the cercumstances surrounding it. It apears by what Jesus said his will was not free to do what he wanted , why because his will was prevented by the WILL of God WHICH WAS GREATER THEN HIS WILL WAS. Now if it was prevented by the will of God then his will was not free at all now was it.
All wills that remain free can never be subject to the will of GOD. THEY WOULD BE INDIVIDUALLS ACTING OUT THEIR OWN WILLS free and, SEPERATE FROM God’s will.God would never know what they would next if their will were free. Most desire this kind of existence, are a GOD UNTO THEMSELVES, FREE APART FROM GOD AND HIS WILL,THEY MAINTAIN a FREE WILL STATUS. EXACTLY WHAT Adam and Eve did, when their influenced wills broke away from GOD’S WILL. THE CARNAL MIND WANTS A WILL THAT IS FREE, FROM GOD THAT IS, because it services the EGO.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
Gene,
..if the minds is held captive, so is the will.
I think through a situationist as I write so you will get the whole picture of all of what I write. In this case I specialize the intellect of a righteous man be subject to sin. I also spoke of the will of the mind vs the will of the body as Paul, and later Freud, described the two as being at war with one another. Freud though saw it as different parts of the mind at war with one another. These things are known of and agreed with by those who advocate free will. The bottom is that at time people find a way out from temptation and in doing so reveal there is free choice.
A righteous man is captive is because his will of the “flesh” compels him to do thing his will of the “intellect” does not want to do. Sometimes the will of the mind wins but as it did in the Pharisee who was satisfied in his own righteousness even though it fell short of God’s glory. That Pharisee was not a captive of sin because he loved the darkness and so served it freely. If he chose to change his ways and do all that is right then the will of his mind would not be free of being a slave to sin.
The righteous man that is freed from sin chooses to serve righteousness and so is as worse a worse a will slave of righteousness. A person advocating free will does not believe humans live in a vacuum.
I am hoping to look at this later
https://philosophynow.org/issues/80/Can_Addicts_Help_ItEdj…..So you say you no longer sin right, then this scripture must apply to you,
1 John 1:8….”If we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
Hi Gene,
John speaks of a progression away form sin:
First: Sinners practice sin, and yet deny that they sin. (1John 1:8)
Second: Those born of God hardly ever commit sin. (1 John 3:9)
Finally: The born again believer stops all sinning. (1 John 5:18)“Having a form of godliness, but denying the power (to live sin-free) thereof: from such turn away.” (2 Tim 3:5)
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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODHi Gene, (ref. John 8:11)
When Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery: “go, and sin no more” did he really mean what Scripture documents he said Gene?
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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODHi Gene,
Do you believe that you are not capable of overcoming the world?
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God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODEDJ……..NO i believe Like the APOSTLE PAUL, THAT GOOD THING I WOULD DO I DON’T DO, BUT THAT THING I WOULD NOT DO THAT I DO, O WRETCHED MAN THAT I AM WHO CAN DELIVER ME FROM THIS BODY OF DEATH, SO SIN IS STILL PRESENT, BECAUSE TO WILL IS I HAVE NOT COMPLETELY DIED YET TO SIN that dwels in my body.. IF YOU SAY YOU HAVE, YOU PROVE YOURSELF a LIAR ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES. In 1 JOHN 1:8 THE APOSTLE JOHN WAS INCLUDING HIMSELF ALSO, AT THE PRESENT TIME HE WROTE THE LETTER, THAT IS WHY HE SAID “if (we) say (we) have no sin (we) decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us”. EDJ YOU ARE NOT ARGUING WITH ME BUT THE APOSTLES PAUL, AND JOHN. YOU CAN FORCE THE TEXT TO SAY WHAT EVER YOU WANT, BUT IS THAT WISE?
WE DO NOT OVERCOME SIN OURSELVES IN THIS PRESENT STATE, WE OVERCOME IT THROUGH THE SACRFICE OF JESUS CHRIST , JUST AS PAUL SAID, he tanked God that through Jesus christ he would be delievered. It is by GRACE WE HAVE BEEN SAVED, NOT OF WORKS LEAST any BOAST. IF YOU SAY YOU HAVE NO SIN SCRIPTURE SAYS YOU ARE decieved, and not telling the truth. Your argument is with scripture not me. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene
Hi Gene,
Well, the “Good news” is:
God can deliver you of all sin
because Jesus Christ died on a cross.I’m not arguing with you Gene, I’m simply telling you the truth. You have to
use your “FreeWill” and decide for yourself whether to reject or accept the truth.___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GODHi Gene,
Did you use your “FreeWill” and look up those verses?
If not, I suggest you research it out for yourself.
John speaks of a progression away form sin:First: Sinners practice sin, and yet deny that they sin. (1John 1:8)
Second: Those born of God hardly ever commit sin. (1 John 3:9)
Finally: The born again believer stops all sinning. (1 John 5:18)“Having a form of godliness, but denying the power
(to live sin-free) thereof: from such turn away.” (2 Tim 3:5)___________
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD
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