Free Will?

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,10:55)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 26 2012,09:31) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,14:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2012,21:05) Hi Gene, This has got to be the funniest topic going; you are using your “Free Will” to tell us that we don't have our “Free Will”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, Well as an American Im using my right in the consitution that says I have the right of free speech.  Trust me its not given in all nations, most of the time its censored. But because of that right, I can speak today.  If I was in China, and decided to chime in, I probably be killed for believeing in Jesus.   Could Pharaoh choose?  Was he not raised to defy God? how about Judas?  How about Jona, who didn't even want to obey God, yet forced to?  How about everything Job had sufferd through?  How about Moses, who told God that He choose wrong? Come on Ed J, there is no need for your silly comments.  We are trying to reach a understanding, maybe you shouldn't underestimate Gene. Hell, look at the past posts in this VERY SAME thread, I use refute everything Gene said.  Now I agree with him, not because he convinced me, but because I one day realized through a series of circumstances what he was talking about, and what others have said as well. On this topic, Gene is actually correct. Hi Dennison, Were any of those “circumstances” your FREE WILL choice to read propaganda material on “The Path of Truth” website? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I wouldn't know because free will doesn't exist Ed.

D

so you have been forced to answer me in the way you did ,and so it is not your fault ,it as to be blame on some other ???

you must be living a blameless live then ? guilty of nothing you do

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,14:43)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2012,22:51) I agree Ed.  This is a crazy topic.  I might exercise my free will to get out while the getting is good.   But not until I make this comment to Dennison: I hear what you are saying, D.  In the case of Pharaoh before the exodus, his will was controlled by God to a point.  He might have let the Israelites go long before the firstborn were killed, but God was making his heart hard (controlling his will) so that His might and glory would become known to all. It is true that there are examples of this in scripture, where one's will was semi-controlled by God – but these are few and far between.  As a general rule, all people have always had their own free will to choose which paths they would take all throughout their lives. Mike, Look its really simple, all Gene is saying and I am saying is that the term “Free-will” as ya see it, doesn't exist. The term that a “will” is free, is totally used wrong.   Your applying the term free-will as the same as freedom of choice.  Its rather silly because we know that even within society our choices are limited to a degree.   Yes we can choose from left and right but to a degree.  Everything is limited to circumstance and law.   Everything you just said negates the notion that free-will is for 100% everybody, that at least you admitted that some are directly influenced by God.  And note that God claims he raised pharaoh up for that very purpose, it was predesitined. The term itself its just wrong.  can we choose, yes but its limited depending the on the options that are GIVEN to us.   Just like Gene said, that the Father “DRAWS” on us.   The bible claims that NOBODY seeks God, yet consider that there are those that do seek God, but why?   Because GOD makes them a new heart, to seek Him! I can give you the scriptures for what I said above if needed.   Fact number 1.  Nobody seeks God Fact number 2. There are those that seek God Question: If there is such a thing as freewill and it is plainly said that NOBODY seeks God, than how is it that there are those that do? (Oh and answer YES OR NO?—just kidding you can't answer this question with a yes or no answer.  talk about killing two birds with one stone.) Dennison

Simply forgiven………..You have it right, the term a “FREEWILL” is a ” OXYMORON” no such thing exists a a Will that is ” FREE” , God give us a “liberty” to excercise our biased and captivated Wills in the earth, but those Wills are not free of influences and therefore are not free themselves. I am glad God has shown you that brother.

Peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 26 2012,22:49)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,14:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2012,22:51) I agree Ed.  This is a crazy topic.  I might exercise my free will to get out while the getting is good.   But not until I make this comment to Dennison: I hear what you are saying, D.  In the case of Pharaoh before the exodus, his will was controlled by God to a point.  He might have let the Israelites go long before the firstborn were killed, but God was making his heart hard (controlling his will) so that His might and glory would become known to all. It is true that there are examples of this in scripture, where one's will was semi-controlled by God – but these are few and far between.  As a general rule, all people have always had their own free will to choose which paths they would take all throughout their lives. Mike, Look its really simple, all Gene is saying and I am saying is that the term “Free-will” as ya see it, doesn't exist. The term that a “will” is free, is totally used wrong.   Your applying the term free-will as the same as freedom of choice.  Its rather silly because we know that even within society our choices are limited to a degree.   Yes we can choose from left and right but to a degree.  Everything is limited to circumstance and law.   Everything you just said negates the notion that free-will is for 100% everybody, that at least you admitted that some are directly influenced by God.  And note that God claims he raised pharaoh up for that very purpose, it was predesitined. The term itself its just wrong.  can we choose, yes but its limited depending the on the options that are GIVEN to us.   Just like Gene said, that the Father “DRAWS” on us.   The bible claims that NOBODY seeks God, yet consider that there are those that do seek God, but why?   Because GOD makes them a new heart, to seek Him! I can give you the scriptures for what I said above if needed.   Fact number 1.  Nobody seeks God Fact number 2. There are those that seek God Question: If there is such a thing as freewill and it is plainly said that NOBODY seeks God, than how is it that there are those that do? (Oh and answer YES OR NO?—just kidding you can't answer this question with a yes or no answer.  talk about killing two birds with one stone.) Dennison Simply forgiven………..You have it right, the term a “FREEWILL” is a ” OXYMORON” no such thing exists a a Will that is ” FREE” , God give us a “liberty” to excercise our biased and captivated Wills in the earth, but those Wills are not free of influences and therefore are not free themselves. I am glad God has shown you that brother. Peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

g

not according to DETERMINANISM

[GeneBalthrop]

Terrica……….What about DETERMINANISM dont you understand, If some is DETERMIND it is NOT “FREE” THOUGHT> but a captivated thought. Think ablut it Pierre.

peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 27 2012,00:51)

Terrica……….What about DETERMINANISM don't you understand, If some is DETERMIND it is NOT “FREE” THOUGHT> but a captivated thought. Think about it Pierre. peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene

Gene

we are not making or creating philosophical statements on free will or determinism or predeterminism,I have study them all since I was 12 years old ,

those are endless and useless discussions ,

what we talking about is the free will = things that are not forced on us to make a decision ,influence is not a decision maker only what it says an influence but no power ,only as the power you are given it ,and in scriptures we only have to make one decision ;that is to accept the message of God or to rejected ,this action is in our power and it has to done within our free willing will,

so in this WE HAVE THE FREEWILL OF DECISSION

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 26 2012,21:06)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,10:55) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 26 2012,09:31) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,14:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2012,21:05) Hi Gene, This has got to be the funniest topic going; you are using your “Free Will” to tell us that we don't have our “Free Will”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, Well as an American Im using my right in the consitution that says I have the right of free speech.  Trust me its not given in all nations, most of the time its censored. But because of that right, I can speak today.  If I was in China, and decided to chime in, I probably be killed for believeing in Jesus.   Could Pharaoh choose?  Was he not raised to defy God? how about Judas?  How about Jona, who didn't even want to obey God, yet forced to?  How about everything Job had sufferd through?  How about Moses, who told God that He choose wrong? Come on Ed J, there is no need for your silly comments.  We are trying to reach a understanding, maybe you shouldn't underestimate Gene. Hell, look at the past posts in this VERY SAME thread, I use refute everything Gene said.  Now I agree with him, not because he convinced me, but because I one day realized through a series of circumstances what he was talking about, and what others have said as well. On this topic, Gene is actually correct. Hi Dennison, Were any of those “circumstances” your FREE WILL choice to read propaganda material on “The Path of Truth” website? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I wouldn't know because free will doesn't exist Ed. D so you have been forced to answer me in the way you did ,and so it is not your fault ,it as to be blame on some other ??? you must be living a blameless live then ? guilty of nothing you do

English please. I already warned you

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 27 2012,01:56)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 26 2012,21:06) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,10:55) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 26 2012,09:31) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,14:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2012,21:05) Hi Gene, This has got to be the funniest topic going; you are using your “Free Will” to tell us that we don't have our “Free Will”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, Well as an American Im using my right in the consitution that says I have the right of free speech.  Trust me its not given in all nations, most of the time its censored. But because of that right, I can speak today.  If I was in China, and decided to chime in, I probably be killed for believeing in Jesus.   Could Pharaoh choose?  Was he not raised to defy God? how about Judas?  How about Jona, who didn't even want to obey God, yet forced to?  How about everything Job had sufferd through?  How about Moses, who told God that He choose wrong? Come on Ed J, there is no need for your silly comments.  We are trying to reach a understanding, maybe you shouldn't underestimate Gene. Hell, look at the past posts in this VERY SAME thread, I use refute everything Gene said.  Now I agree with him, not because he convinced me, but because I one day realized through a series of circumstances what he was talking about, and what others have said as well. On this topic, Gene is actually correct. Hi Dennison, Were any of those “circumstances” your FREE WILL choice to read propaganda material on “The Path of Truth” website? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I wouldn't know because free will doesn't exist Ed. D so you have been forced to answer me in the way you did ,and so it is not your fault ,it as to be blame on some other ??? you must be living a blameless live then ? guilty of nothing you do English please. I already warned you

D

you can always leave this site and pick one that does not allowed people like me but only people like you ,

then you would find yourself home

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 27 2012,00:59)

D you can always leave this site and pick one that does not allowed people like me but only people like you , then you would find yourself home

Im sorry I still don't know what your say.

[Proclaimer]

I have chosen freely to say that I have free will.
Gene has chosen freely to believe that there is no free will.

Free will allows for this outcome.

Happy free willing everyone.

Maybe we should have a day in the year when we celebrate free will. Free will day. How about it Gene. What is your will on this?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 27 2012,06:15)

I have chosen freely to say that I have free will. Gene has chosen freely to believe that there is no free will. Free will allows for this outcome. Happy free willing everyone. Maybe we should have a day in the year when we celebrate free will. Free will day. How about it Gene. What is your will on this?

Sure T8 if you live tommorow, Go ahead, and celebrate every year after that until you can't though the day you can't, but want to, will contradict the whole point to your festival

I wouldn't waste my time if I were you… just saying!

Dennison

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 27 2012,04:46)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 27 2012,00:59) D you can always leave this site and pick one that does not allowed people like me but only people like you , then you would find yourself home   Im sorry I still don't know what your say.

[Ed J]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,15:55)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 26 2012,09:31) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 26 2012,14:54) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 25 2012,21:05) Hi Gene, This has got to be the funniest topic going; you are using your “Free Will” to tell us that we don't have our “Free Will”? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed J, Well as an American Im using my right in the consitution that says I have the right of free speech.  Trust me its not given in all nations, most of the time its censored. But because of that right, I can speak today.  If I was in China, and decided to chime in, I probably be killed for believeing in Jesus.   Could Pharaoh choose?  Was he not raised to defy God? how about Judas?  How about Jona, who didn't even want to obey God, yet forced to?  How about everything Job had sufferd through?  How about Moses, who told God that He choose wrong? Come on Ed J, there is no need for your silly comments.  We are trying to reach a understanding, maybe you shouldn't underestimate Gene. Hell, look at the past posts in this VERY SAME thread, I use refute everything Gene said.  Now I agree with him, not because he convinced me, but because I one day realized through a series of circumstances what he was talking about, and what others have said as well. On this topic, Gene is actually correct. Hi Dennison, Were any of those “circumstances” your FREE WILL choice to read propaganda material on “The Path of Truth” website? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I wouldn't know because free will doesn't exist Ed.

[Ed J]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 27 2012,12:15)

I have chosen freely to say that I have free will. Gene has chosen freely to believe that there is no free will. Free will allows for this outcome. Happy free willing everyone. Maybe we should have a day in the year when we celebrate free will. Free will day. How about it Gene. What is your will on this?

Hi T8,

Us “FreeWillers” must unite against the influence of having a 'Captivated Will'.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hey Gene, on a more serious note.

When Jesus said he was setting us “Free”, what was he setting us FREE from?
Of course the simple answer is: from sin and the effects of sin, which is death.
This simple answer matches  O-N-L-Y  with “POINT #1”, what of “POINT #2”?

“I have come that (1)they might have life,
(2)and that they might have it more abundantly.”  (John 10:10)

“What specifically are we set free from – regarding POINT #”2” ??    
       (and don't even try to 'split' point #1 into a point #2)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[GeneBalthrop]

Ed j……..We atre set Free from Sin which captivates our desires and “causes” us to will for that which is wrong. Aain that it self should show you our Wills are Biased and are not free of Influences as you suppose they are. Any influence on a Will causes it not to be “FREE or it simply would not be influenced at all if it were truly Free. Jesus set us free from what captivates us and our wills and that is Sin. Haven you read where Jesus said a man is held captive by what over powers him?. If the man is held captive so is his will.

Again the word “FREEWILL” is and OXYMORON anyway you cut it. IMO

peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 29 2012,00:08)

Ed j……..We atre set Free from Sin which captivates our desires and “causes” us to will for that which is wrong. Aain that it self should show you our Wills are Biased and are not free of Influences as you suppose they are. Any influence on a Will causes it not to be “FREE or it simply would not be influenced at all if it were truly Free.  Jesus set us free from what captivates us and our wills and that is Sin. Haven you read where Jesus said a man is held captive by what over powers him?. If the man is held captive so is his will. Again the word “FREEWILL” is and OXYMORON anyway you cut it. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Obvisouly there isn't a freewill if we are being set free from boundage.
Sin obviously is something that even if we wanted to be free from, can't unless its by Jesus.
Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Just to add to what Gene was saying.

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 29 2012,01:19)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 29 2012,00:08) Ed j……..We atre set Free from Sin which captivates our desires and “causes” us to will for that which is wrong. Aain that it self should show you our Wills are Biased and are not free of Influences as you suppose they are. Any influence on a Will causes it not to be “FREE or it simply would not be influenced at all if it were truly Free.  Jesus set us free from what captivates us and our wills and that is Sin. Haven you read where Jesus said a man is held captive by what over powers him?. If the man is held captive so is his will. Again the word “FREEWILL” is and OXYMORON anyway you cut it. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; Obvisouly there isn't a freewill if we are being set free from boundage. Sin obviously is something that even if we wanted to be free from, can't unless its by Jesus.   Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. Just to add to what Gene was saying.

G and D

Quote

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

their are two position we can chose from BE SERVANT OF SIN,

OR BE SERVANT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,

i WANDER WITCH ONE YOU GUYS ARE SERVANT OF AND WHY

[mikeboll64]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 25 2012,21:43)

Question: If there is such a thing as freewill and it is plainly said that NOBODY seeks God, than how is it that there are those that do? (Oh and answer YES OR NO?—just kidding you can't answer this question with a yes or no answer.  talk about killing two birds with one stone.)

The scriptural statement, “no one seeks God” is an emphatical statement made by one of God's prophets.  He is exaggerating about the sad state of Israel at the time, ie:  everyone is going after their own desires, and no one is seeking God anymore.

Obviously, the prophet who wrote those words WAS seeking God, and so the words “no one” are emphatical, meaning that it seemed to the prophet as if there were very few Israelites following God at that time.

BUT…………………….  that just goes to show that those people who weren't seeking God had the FREE WILL to either seek Him or not.  God is not controlling human beings and making them seek Him.  They have their own free wills to decide whether or not to seek Him.

The command is that we ARE to seek God.  But the reality is that we also have our own free wills to decide whether or not we'll follow that command.

As for your YES or NO question comment, I would never ask, What color is the sky?  YES or NO?

Ed's post was made to deal with YES OR NO questions that I had asked that could not be answered with a YES or a NO.  To date, not one person has been able to show an example of one of those questions.  

(Talk about killing two birds with one stone!   )

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 29 2012,06:19)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 29 2012,00:08) Ed j……..We atre set Free from Sin which captivates our desires and “causes” us to will for that which is wrong. Aain that it self should show you our Wills are Biased and are not free of Influences as you suppose they are. Any influence on a Will causes it not to be “FREE or it simply would not be influenced at all if it were truly Free.  Jesus set us free from what captivates us and our wills and that is Sin. Haven you read where Jesus said a man is held captive by what over powers him?. If the man is held captive so is his will. Again the word “FREEWILL” is and OXYMORON anyway you cut it. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; Obvisouly there isn't a freewill if we are being set free from boundage. Sin obviously is something that even if we wanted to be free from, can't unless its by Jesus.   Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. Just to add to what Gene was saying.

Simplyforgiven……….You have it perfectly right brother.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 29 2012,06:24)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 29 2012,01:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 29 2012,00:08) Ed j……..We atre set Free from Sin which captivates our desires and “causes” us to will for that which is wrong. Aain that it self should show you our Wills are Biased and are not free of Influences as you suppose they are. Any influence on a Will causes it not to be “FREE or it simply would not be influenced at all if it were truly Free.  Jesus set us free from what captivates us and our wills and that is Sin. Haven you read where Jesus said a man is held captive by what over powers him?. If the man is held captive so is his will. Again the word “FREEWILL” is and OXYMORON anyway you cut it. IMO peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; Obvisouly there isn't a freewill if we are being set free from boundage. Sin obviously is something that even if we wanted to be free from, can't unless its by Jesus.   Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. Just to add to what Gene was saying. G and D Quote Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. their are two position we can chose from BE SERVANT OF SIN, OR BE SERVANT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, i WANDER WITCH ONE YOU GUYS ARE SERVANT OF AND WHY

Terricca……….I don't wonder who you serve you own words of “accusing” people Shows us all that. IMO

peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………………..en

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