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It’s the type of Free Will that’s the argument and the words “Free Will” is deceptive/misleading. Most everyone believes in a will, it’s a matter of what kind. Does one make choices free from influence, enviroment, deception (lack of correct information), etc. ? How much are we responcible for our choices? Do we in full knowledge and understanding make wrong or evil choices? Or do we err because of ignorance or training? Or somewhere in between? Do brain damaged people who loose their temper and hit someone sin? Or what if tow retarded people commit fornication? How about rewards after this life based on the lives we ‘choose’ do the more intellegent and well raise christians have a better ruling posistion in the future world than the abused and tortured ones? What about the study of twins which shows that many of our choices in live are already genetically instilled in us? I could go on and on. No there is no such thing as ‘free’ will.
Hi Todd.
You are free to choose whether their is free will or not. Ironic isn’t it. Your argument about influence nullifying free will does not stand. Because in order to choose freely in the first place, we need a range of influences to choose from. e.g., we can choose to comply with the Spirit of God or the flesh. If we choose the Spirit of God, then we live. If we live by the flesh now, we will die. Your suggestion of no free will would then apply here too and thus those who perish for living in the flesh cannot be blamed for their lifestyle if they were not free to choose between the Spirit and the flesh. I would argue further and say that anything that doesn’t influence us rarely comes into our radar and thus are just ignored. So it is only those things that influence us that we become aware of and we then make our choices from these things. Spirit and flesh being a good example here.
I like these words posted from the thread starter.I truly believe in grace and can only give all praise to God and Christ.
If any man glory let him glory in the Lord!
I learned of God's sovereignty and sovereign grace first from the Spirit as a new believer but rejected that too for freewill.
It was years later I found there were others who once did or do believe the various scriptures discounted and ignored by most.
I thank God for the reformed to opening my eyes to these truths and reading this was a blessing.Its always good to be reminded and be thankful.Quote (AndrewAD @ Oct. 07 2012,14:42) I like these words posted from the thread starter.I truly believe in grace and can only give all praise to God and Christ.
If any man glory let him glory in the Lord!
I learned of God's sovereignty and sovereign grace first from the Spirit as a new believer but rejected that too for freewill.
It was years later I found there were others who once did or do believe the various scriptures discounted and ignored by most.
I thank God for the reformed to opening my eyes to these truths and reading this was a blessing.Its always good to be reminded and be thankful.
Andrew……Good observation brother, it does pretty well sum it up for those who have eyes to see. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Pierre ………You mean a Will is related to his nature , nothing FREE about it it is a Biased Will that is working in us all , we are held captive by our will and there is nothing free about it. Your still confusing our Liberty to exercise those “Biased WILL” as the wills being Free themselves. The word “FREEWILL” is an OXYMORON no will is free of influence or it would not be a Will now would it?
peace and love…………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 10 2012,06:57) Pierre ………You mean a Will is related to his nature , nothing FREE about it it is a Biased Will that is working in us all , we are held captive by our will and there is nothing free about it. Your still confusing our Liberty to exercise those “Biased WILL” as the wills being Free themselves. The word “FREEWILL” is an OXYMORON no will is free of influence or it would not be a Will now would it? peace and love…………………………………………………………gene
gany will ,animal or human ,all is related to his nature,freewill or free will or the will what we use to freely do some of our desires within our nature,is the one were our live is in the scale
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,11:50) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 10 2012,06:57) Pierre ………You mean a Will is related to his nature , nothing FREE about it it is a Biased Will that is working in us all , we are held captive by our will and there is nothing free about it. Your still confusing our Liberty to exercise those “Biased WILL” as the wills being Free themselves. The word “FREEWILL” is an OXYMORON no will is free of influence or it would not be a Will now would it? peace and love…………………………………………………………gene
gany will ,animal or human ,all is related to his nature,freewill or free will or the will what we use to freely do some of our desires within our nature,is the one were our live is in the scale
Terricca……..Do you have any idea how contradictory that is to what you say about a will being “FREE”.On the one hand you say the will is tied to it ones Nature. Well them if it “TIED” to his or her “NATURE” it is them NOT “FREE” or it would not be “TIED” to a Nature now would it.
Your still getting confused with us have Liberty to exercise our Captivated or as Your say “TIED” Will's as those will being FREE When the WILL “ITSELF” is “TIED” or CAPTIVATED by something.
Why is it you can't see that?
peace and love……………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 16 2012,21:52) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 10 2012,11:50) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 10 2012,06:57) Pierre ………You mean a Will is related to his nature , nothing FREE about it it is a Biased Will that is working in us all , we are held captive by our will and there is nothing free about it. Your still confusing our Liberty to exercise those “Biased WILL” as the wills being Free themselves. The word “FREEWILL” is an OXYMORON no will is free of influence or it would not be a Will now would it? peace and love…………………………………………………………gene
gany will ,animal or human ,all is related to his nature,freewill or free will or the will what we use to freely do some of our desires within our nature,is the one were our live is in the scale
Terricca……..Do you have any idea how contradictory that is to what you say about a will being “FREE”.On the one hand you say the will is tied to it ones Nature. Well them if it “TIED” to his or her “NATURE” it is them NOT “FREE” or it would not be “TIED” to a Nature now would it.
Your still getting confused with us have Liberty to exercise our Captivated or as Your say “TIED” Will's as those will being FREE When the WILL “ITSELF” is “TIED” or CAPTIVATED by something.
Why is it you can't see that?
peace and love……………………………………………..gene
glook at the second part of my comment
Or better put.
We can only do whats is in our ability to do, which means your choices or will is limited to what one is able to do depending on the circumstance.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,11:36) Or better put. We can only do whats is in our ability to do, which means your choices or will is limited to what one is able to do depending on the circumstance.
Hi Dennison,Our ability to choose “what to choose” is our “FREE WILL”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 17 2012,05:53) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,11:36) Or better put. We can only do whats is in our ability to do, which means your choices or will is limited to what one is able to do depending on the circumstance.
Hi Dennison,Our ability to choose “what to choose” is our “FREE WILL”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You can only choose, and actually do what is an option. There is nothing free about that.You can try to fly, but you will fall.
Though a bird can choose to go left or right, doesn't mean it has free will. All it means it has the option of left and right.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 17 2012,05:53) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,11:36) Or better put. We can only do whats is in our ability to do, which means your choices or will is limited to what one is able to do depending on the circumstance.
Hi Dennison,Our ability to choose “what to choose” is our “FREE WILL”!
God bless
Ed J
You can only choose, and actually do what is an option. There is nothing free about that.You can try to fly, but you will fall.
Though a bird can choose to go left or right, doesn't mean it has free will. All it means it has the option of left and right.
Hi Dennison,If a person chooses to break out of Jail, is that not a “FREE WILL” choice even though it is not a choice given to him?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Wakeup,
If a person chooses to put another's will above theirs, who gave them that choice?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 17 2012,06:15) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 17 2012,05:53) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 17 2012,11:36) Or better put. We can only do whats is in our ability to do, which means your choices or will is limited to what one is able to do depending on the circumstance.
Hi Dennison,Our ability to choose “what to choose” is our “FREE WILL”!
God bless
Ed J
You can only choose, and actually do what is an option. There is nothing free about that.You can try to fly, but you will fall.
Though a bird can choose to go left or right, doesn't mean it has free will. All it means it has the option of left and right.
Hi Dennison,If a person chooses to break out of Jail, is that not a “FREE WILL” choice even though it is not a choice given to him?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Actually thats not a good example Ed.Someone can TRY but doesnt mean they will.
People don't choose to be manipulated,
also another example, is Pharaoh heart being hardened, by God.
Just because we can choose, doesnt mean our will is free.
The ability to choose, is mean you have options to choose from.That is all.
(Im watching the debate so excuse me.)
We all have choices this is true, but God has seen every mans choice in every situation and has put us in our place accordingly. He knows the hearts those who will follow, and so, God will make them follow. Also, remember “He has mercy on whom He has mercy, and hardens whom He hardens”. Romans 9:18 Those who are destined to be hardened will be hardened because God choose it for wutever reason. I trust God so I accept this, and pray that my destiny is to stay obedient to Christ.
Look at the following verse:
Romans 1:24
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
Notice how God hands them over, AFTER their own desires. These desires grow in the hearts of men depending on what they choose in life. If we choose to sin, then it forms a lifestyle eventually. If we choose not to, then that also forms a lifestyle. And God hands us over to the end result when we go beyond a certain line.“For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Romans 8:29-30 “”For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” One must be preordained to accept God and to accept God’s word. Anything that occurs must be according to God’s will. Even evil cannot happen unless God allows it. If that was not the case Satan would not have asked God before going out to destroy Job’s faith. Does it not say in Isaiah 45:7 “I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.” Not that God does evil, but allows it, so in that respect He does create it. Therefore, God knew evil men would wish to do evil so He put them in the proper place where they would do what they did. Our actions are all known beforehand fore God has authority over all things.
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