- This topic has 3,825 replies, 73 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2010,19:44) edj yes we have to do all we can to be obedient to the scriptures the word of God,so we may be in the first resurection
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,Can't make up your mind now as to what “The Word” is;
the Scriptures or a person?Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2010,03:31) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2010,19:44) edj yes we have to do all we can to be obedient to the scriptures the word of God,so we may be in the first resurection
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,Can't make up your mind now as to what “The Word” is;
the Scriptures or a person?
edjyou should know that THE WORD as per John 1;1 is Christ,
now see and learn;;
Ge 15:1 After this, THE WORD of the LORD came to Abram in a vision:
“Do not be afraid, Abram.
I am your shield,
your very great rewardNu 3:16 So Moses counted them, as he was commanded by THE WORD of the LORD.
Nu 3:51 Moses gave the redemption money to Aaron and his sons, as he was commanded by THE WORD of the LORD.1Sa 3:7 Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD? The WORD of the LORD had not yet been revealed to him.
1Sa 15:10 Then the WORD of the LORD came to Samuel1Ki 13:9 For I was commanded by the word of the LORD? ‘You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came
1Ki 13:9 For I was commanded by the word of the LORD? ‘You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came
Ps 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right and true;
he is faithful in all he doesJn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
THOSE ARE ENCONTERS WITH THE WORD OF GOD, NOT THE SCRIPTURES,
NOW THIS ARE THE WORDS SPOKEN;1Ki 12:24 ‘This is what the LORD says: Do not go up to fight against your brothers, the Israelites. Go home, every one of you, for this is my doing.’ ” So they obeyed the word of the LORD and went home again, as the LORD had ordered
1Ki 17:16 For the jar of flour was not used up and the jug of oil did not run dry, in keeping with the word of the LORD spoken by Elijah
1Ch 10:13 Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD? he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance
2Ch 36:12 He did evil in the eyes of the LORD his God and did not humble himself before Jeremiah the prophet, who spoke the word of the LORD
Ezr 1:1 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and to put it in writing:
Isa 28:14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scoffers
who rule this people in Jerusalem.Ac 11:1 The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
Ac 12:24 But the word of God continued to increase and spreadDO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE EDJ CAN YOU ??
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2010,22:23) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2010,03:31) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2010,19:44) edj yes we have to do all we can to be obedient to the scriptures the word of God,so we may be in the first resurection
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,Can't make up your mind now as to what “The Word” is;
the Scriptures or a person?
edjyou should know that THE WORD as per John 1;1 is Christ,
now see and learn;;
Ge 15:1 After this, THE WORD of the LORD came to Abram in a vision:
“Do not be afraid, Abram.
I am your shield,
your very great rewardNu 3:16 So Moses counted them, as he was commanded by THE WORD of the LORD.
Nu 3:51 Moses gave the redemption money to Aaron and his sons, as he was commanded by THE WORD of the LORD.1Sa 3:7 Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD? The WORD of the LORD had not yet been revealed to him.
1Sa 15:10 Then the WORD of the LORD came to Samuel1Ki 13:9 For I was commanded by the word of the LORD? ‘You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came
1Ki 13:9 For I was commanded by the word of the LORD? ‘You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came
Ps 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right and true;
he is faithful in all he doesJn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
THOSE ARE ENCONTERS WITH THE WORD OF GOD, NOT THE SCRIPTURES,
NOW THIS ARE THE WORDS SPOKEN;1Ki 12:24 ‘This is what the LORD says: Do not go up to fight against your brothers, the Israelites. Go home, every one of you, for this is my doing.’ ” So they obeyed the word of the LORD and went home again, as the LORD had ordered
1Ki 17:16 For the jar of flour was not used up and the jug of oil did not run dry, in keeping with the word of the LORD spoken by Elijah
1Ch 10:13 Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD? he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance
2Ch 36:12 He did evil in the eyes of the LORD his God and did not humble himself before Jeremiah the prophet, who spoke the word of the LORD
Ezr 1:1 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and to put it in writing:
Isa 28:14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scoffers
who rule this people in Jerusalem.Ac 11:1 The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
Ac 12:24 But the word of God continued to increase and spreadDO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE EDJ CAN YOU ??
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,Was not the “spoken” word of the LORD written down in what we call “The Bible”?
Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.edj
you can't see it ,??
look again and see, the difference between the written word and the encounter with the WORD of God.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2010,23:38) edj you can't see it ,??
look again and see, the difference between the written word and the encounter with the WORD of God.
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,“The Word” was God. Do you deny the accuracy of John 1:1?
John 1:1 …The Word was GOD! (this is the HolySpirit my friend!)
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he(Jesus) hath declared him(The Word).
Of course you have a “Free Will” to choose not to believe; you do know this, right?Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2010,14:33) Gene, Are you assuming because God manipulates us to accomplish his loving purpose for us that our choices are not freely made. Scripture teaches us that God manipulates us by testing our hearts which means we are free to choose good or evil. He has foreknowledge about what we will chose and he uses that and his power in order that our free choice does not harm his righteous plan but that does not mean we have no free choice.
kerwin, I also agree with you, I have gone around the circle with Gene, and even when I wrote down a Scripture that said Jesus came down to do not His own will, but the will of Him who send Him. That was not good enough. It didn't say free….. You are right, we have a free will, to do good or to do evil……. Free will is a choice we make….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Baker @ Oct. 15 2010,09:35) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 15 2010,04:15) Irene ………May GOD make me HIS Puppet, yes may his strings (SPIRIT)be connected to every part of my being, so i can truly (IMAGE) Him as Jesus my brother DID. ONLY ONE GOD, ONLY ONE WAY, and that is GODS WAY. That GOD may be (IN) ALL and THROUGH (ALL> Or do you think GOD is ineffective and must rely on OUR So-called “FREE” WILL. If that were the case no one would ever be saved Including Jesus also. Who said (NOT MY WILL BE DONE) BUT (THY) WILL BE DONE> think about it Irene. peace and love……………………………gene
Gene!
Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
You choice is yours to obey God or not, choice is you willl to do good or bad….
Jesus came to do His Fathers will and not His own will…….get it….
Peace and Love
kerwin, two Scriptures and I know there are more then that.
Some will see it and some will not. It goes for all thingfs written in our Bible……
Hope your feeling better these days….Peace adn Love IreneQuote (Baker @ Oct. 16 2010,00:42) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2010,14:33) Gene, Are you assuming because God manipulates us to accomplish his loving purpose for us that our choices are not freely made. Scripture teaches us that God manipulates us by testing our hearts which means we are free to choose good or evil. He has foreknowledge about what we will chose and he uses that and his power in order that our free choice does not harm his righteous plan but that does not mean we have no free choice.
kerwin, I also agree with you, I have gone around the circle with Gene, and even when I wrote down a Scripture that said Jesus came down to do not His own will, but the will of Him who send Him. That was not good enough. It didn't say free….. You are right, we have a free will, to do good or to do evil……. Free will is a choice we make….
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,Free will is NOT a choice we make; but “Free Will” allows us to make a choice.
I hope you can see the difference.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2010,00:37) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2010,23:38) edj you can't see it ,??
look again and see, the difference between the written word and the encounter with the WORD of God.
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,“The Word” was God. Do you deny the accuracy of John 1:1?
John 1:1 …The Word was GOD! (this is the HolySpirit my friend!)
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he(Jesus) hath declared him(The Word).
Of course you have a “Free Will” to choose not to believe; you do know this, right?
Ed and Pierre, You are going of the subject at hand.
IreneQuote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 15 2010,13:03) I think I get what you're saying now Gene. But if I'm allergic to cherry and chocolate hurts my teeth, and because of those two “influences” I choose apple – does that mean I don't have free will? I think that is what you are saying, and maybe it IS just our understandings of the word “free” that is causing the difference here.
Here's how I see the “pie” choice. Sure, I remember how cherries make me swell up a bit, but I still like the way they taste. So even with the “influence” of knowing I might swell up, I am still FREE to choose the cherry pie anyway…….DESPITE the “influence”.
Isn't that “FREE will”?
peace and love,
mike
Mike………….No, it is not a WILL working “FREELY” it is your thinking controlling YOUR WILL, nothing FREE About it. A WILL is a desire and a desire is not FREE of INFLUENCES. There is a reason when Will is written in scripture it is never written as a FREE WILL, and the only place it is is a mistranslation from the word Voluntary offering or service. Jesus did not say ” NOT MY “FREE” WILL be done, but NOT MY WILL be done, but thy WILL be done. Wills are all the result of INFLUENCES and those influences determine our choices. So How can we apply the word “FREE” to that. If your will was “FREE” you could not will anything you would not have the capacity to WILL. FREE WILL is and OXYMORON. You as the rest are confusing LIBERTY to exercise our (CAPTIVATED) WILLS as our WILLS Being FREE themselves. Far from the truth.We are cause to change our WILLS by the intervention of GOD into our Minds where He through reveling to us His understandings is changing our thinking to conform to His Just as it say. “FOR GOD (WORKS) (IN) US BOTH TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE.” Just understanding that alone should answer your questions, If your truly understood that then you would understand FREE will Does Not exist but influenced wills do.
False thinking about us Having a will the is FREE is a person trying to remain separate from GOD and making him or herself a God unto themselves. It basically is saying to GOD I am in control and only if i give you permission to act then you can, so i chose my own salvation by my “FREE” WILL thinking because I am a Independent Person . This is the same attitude ADAM and EVE HAD it was an attitude of separation from GOD and His Power to Change Us and Transform us into His Childern.
peace and love………………………….gene
Kerwin……..There is (ONLY) ONE WILL that will be done and it is not OURS or Jesus and anyone else's It is GODS WILL. But in all this No where is the words “FREE WILL” said to exist not in OUR WILLS or GODS WILL, it is Just a matter of which ONE is going to Be DONE. The WORD “FREE” Has nothing to do with It, JUST WHO'S WILL> I do not like the word Manipulate it implies EVIL , God is in (COMPLETE CONTROL) OF ALL HIS CREATION AND WILL ALWAYS BE. No matter how much man wants to be FREE of that by his falsely assumed Freewill thinking. People who preach “FREE WILL thinking are those to profess GOD but deny his Power by thinking they are FREE to think as they chose to and there power of SELF-WILL is what counts even in the acceptance or rejection of GOD. FREE WILL thinking only pumps the EGOS in people and causes Pride and arrogance to rule in their lives.
peace and love…………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 23 2010,22:48) ED J………I do agree the clearer we can be in trying to explaining something that better for all, some time this takes a long Post to accomplish and i do believe we are all at different stages of growth in our journey to understand GOD'S words. Many times it is like water on a ducks back just shed right off. Most have their own convictions and are not willing to consider other thoughts when offered, Jesus also had the same problems even with his disciples at times he had to explain over and over to them things. We are very much like little childern in the market place, Jesus said those of his day were , they said we have piped unto you and you did not dance we have mourned unto you and your did not mourn, i think it is still that way. peace to you and yours……………….gene
Hi Gene,Yes; this is why I explain to “YOU” over and over about the “Free Will”
our heavenly father has given each and every one of his Children!Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (Baker @ Oct. 16 2010,07:48) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2010,00:37) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2010,23:38) edj you can't see it ,??
look again and see, the difference between the written word and the encounter with the WORD of God.
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,“The Word” was God. Do you deny the accuracy of John 1:1?
John 1:1 …The Word was GOD! (this is the HolySpirit my friend!)
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he(Jesus) hath declared him(The Word).
Of course you have a “Free Will” to choose not to believe; you do know this, right?
Ed and Pierre, You are going of the subject at hand.
Irene
IreneYES, sorry
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 16 2010,04:58) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 16 2010,07:48) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 16 2010,00:37) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 15 2010,23:38) edj you can't see it ,??
look again and see, the difference between the written word and the encounter with the WORD of God.
Pierre
Hi Terraricca,“The Word” was God. Do you deny the accuracy of John 1:1?
John 1:1 …The Word was GOD! (this is the HolySpirit my friend!)
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he(Jesus) hath declared him(The Word).
Of course you have a “Free Will” to choose not to believe; you do know this, right?
Ed and Pierre, You are going of the subject at hand.
Irene
IreneYES, sorry
Pierre
accepted Peace and Love IreneGene,
Irene quoted:
Quote Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Do you agree this scripture is stating those that hear the message of life or deaths are free to choose either path?
If not please explain why it should not be taken literally. Thank you!
Kerwin………….Of Course GOD set before them Life or death, Blessing and cursing, and commanded them (the Isrealites) to chose life , But did they is the question and why did they not chose life but instead cursing, Because they were carnal minded and did not have the Holy Spirit (IN) them guiding their Heart and Minds. Non of them chose life, except for those who had God Spirit on them, why was that?. Scripture say God looked for (ONE) and could not find ONE righteous among them. Therefore He took it upon his own arm to bring salvation. Why do that if it is up to our “FREE) WILLS to make the right Choice by are Captivated WILLS> Scripture say the carnal is an enemy of GOD not subject to the laws of GOD Neither Indeed (CAN BE> So if that carnal mind Can Not be subject to GOD then how can it chose any of GODS Ways on it own, by it falsely called “FREE” Choices it would alway chose wrong as History shows it has. Because it desires its own captivated WILL, not GODS WILL. Jesus even said “NO MAN (CAN) COME UNTO ME UNLESS THE FATHER DRAW HIM”> So what about that is there “FREE” WILL working there. Obviously NOT>
peace and love………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 16 2010,18:25) Kerwin………….Of Course GOD set before them Life or death, Blessing and cursing, and commanded them (the Isrealites) to chose life , But did they is the question and why did they not chose life but instead cursing, Because they were carnal minded and did not have the Holy Spirit (IN) them guiding their Heart and Minds. Non of them chose life, except for those who had God Spirit on them, why was that?. Scripture say God looked for (ONE) and could not find ONE righteous among them. Therefore He took it upon his own arm to bring salvation. Why do that if it is up to our “FREE) WILLS to make the right Choice by are Captivated WILLS> Scripture say the carnal is an enemy of GOD not subject to the laws of GOD Neither Indeed (CAN BE> So if that carnal mind Can Not be subject to GOD then how can it chose any of GODS Ways on it own, by it falsely called “FREE” Choices it would alway chose wrong as History shows it has. Because it desires its own captivated WILL, not GODS WILL. Jesus even said “NO MAN (CAN) COME UNTO ME UNLESS THE FATHER DRAW HIM”> So what about that is there “FREE” WILL working there. Obviously NOT> peace and love………………………………………gene
geneyou must be a politician, you do not prove anything,everyone as to believe on your words,
you are above God at the least God send prophets,send is son,and give some back ground to what he say and do,
but you are not only without a cause you have no effect as well, look at what you assert to be true??
does not even make sense;it nullified the entire judicial system,and any moral distinction between the righteous and the wicket,you also called God the producer of wickedness,and so also make God impotent of being free ,and you call yourself a believer ?? think again friend
Pierre
Gene,
You are adding to God’s will without realizing it. That is why I feel we should trace the whole idea back to its roots in God while covering all the bases. Deuteronomy 30:19 speaks of having the freedom to choose either a path of righteousness or of wickedness and therefore we must have the freedom to choose. That does not answer the question of why we make the choices we do. You are attempting to answer but your words contradict the idea we are free to choose that is written by the Spirit into scripture.
I agree with you that the will, or purpose, of man is corrupt while the will of God is incorrupt and thus we must submit ourselves to God in order to be free from sin and death. It is also true that those who have not made Jesus their Lord are slaves to sin and thus under compulsion to sin. They are separated from God because of their impure spirit and can at best be credited with righteousness because they believe God. If you believe God then you also believe those in slavery to sin also have the freedom to choose. It is obvious they have the freedom to choose whether or not to believe all God says even though bound to unclean spirit.
We also know from Matthew 5:6 that those that hunger and thirst for righteous will believe God and so stop sinning when they are fully mature in Christ. Other scripture makes it clear that these individuals will not be lost to the Evil One. I believe that hunger is soul hunger since it is experienced by those without the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit alters both heart and mind.
I have not traced this situation back to its roots as yet but I feel I have covered enough ground to discuss.
Kerwin………..God did not ask them he commanded them to chose life. God did not ask Adam and Eve to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good an devil he commanded them not to. But they through their own desires to be a GOD themselves driven by their subtile Natures willed to disobey GOD. To think they through a “FREE” WILL did it is false they through a adversarial and lustful will did it.Yes life and death is before all man Kind, But Mankind by his so-called “FREE” Will thinking has chosen death and even is not subject to the Will or laws of GOD.
Kerwin all this boils down to ONE SIMPLE SCRIPTURE i have quoted i don't know how many times Here. He it is again….” For go (WORKS) in us (BOTH) to (WILL) and do of (HIS) Good Pleasure” . Now with that quoted lets deal with that instead of running all over the place with different ideas and thinking . You Know i have not seen One person Her even discuss this Scripture. Not one that i recall ever has answered it or what it means, with regard to a so-called “FREE” WILL. Why is that, it is because it destroys the concept of us having “FREE” WILLS. We do have Wills but as far as them being FREE that could not be further from the truth.
There exist two options GOOD and EVIL, Nothing “FREE” about it. The right Way and the Wrong WAY. GOD commands us to Chose the Right Way, He dies not ask us if we want to through our inability to make that right “FREE” Choice , no he command us to, the TEN (COMMANDMENTS). god said this about Abraham. For i know Abraham He shall (COMMAND) his Childern after Him. A father s right is that of COMMAND , God the Father is a Commanding GOD not a if you some how on your Own by your so-called “Free WILL get around to deciding to agree with me Father. When i was a child My father told me what to do it was not a matter of discussion he exercised his Fatherly position in my life. Even So with GOD the FATHER “For he does (ALL) thing after the Council of (HIS) will”, he doe snot ask for our opinions. In fact if you have eyes to see this, He was that way with Jesus also.
Joh 12:28……> Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying I HAVE BOTH GLORIFIED IT AND WILL GLORIFY IT AGAIN.
God the Father commands all his Creation because He alone is Good and Righteous in every Way, He is Perfect and Holy and (COMMANDS) US TO BE THAT WAY ALSO. It is not an Option that some HOW Brings GLORY on US by our so-called “Free Wills”, but GLORY ON the FATHER. EVEN our SALVATION is to (HIS) GLORY. He alone is GOD the only true Savior and (HIS) WILL will Be DONE not OUR WILLS. IMOpeace and love………………………………..gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
