- This topic has 179 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 4 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Danny,
I wanted to go through the whole chapter of Hebrews 2 with you, covering verses 1-9 and then in a second post 10-18. The last several days I have been studying the book of Hebrews and reading other passages that I find apply.
Hebrews 2: 1 Because of this it behoveth us more abundantly to take heed to the things heard, lest we may glide aside, 2 for if the word being spoken through messengers did become stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience did receive a just recompense, 3 how shall we escape, having neglected so great salvation? which a beginning receiving — to be spoken through the Lord — by those having heard was confirmed to us, 4 God also bearing joint-witness both with signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to His will. 5 For not to messengers did He subject the coming world, concerning which we speak, 6 and one in a certain place did testify fully, saying, `What is man, that Thou art mindful of him, or a son of man, that Thou dost look after him? 7 Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands, 8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,’ for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him, 9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see — Jesus — because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.
First things first, YHVH made him (who is identified as a man/anthropos HUMAN) a little lower than the messengers. Paul as you may very well know was quoting directly from Psalms 8 and then he directly requoted applying Jesus as the very human to whom YHVH was mindful of and looked after (recall how the son of Jesse was promised to receive the Spirit, a calling to righteousness where God was going to hold his hand and keep him for to fulfill His covenant, Isaiah 42). There is no God or spirit son coming in the flesh being made a little lower than the messengers here. There is a human named Jesus who received the Spirit of YHVH and was sent out into the world being made a little lower than the messengers for the suffering of death. He would then be crowned with glory and honor being given dominion overall.
What is interesting is in Psalms 8 the word is not messenger it’s elohiym which does stand for judges and rulers. Did YHVH make Jesus a little lower than judges and rulers for the suffering of death, which was then to crown him and appoint him the judge and ruler over all?
Jesus was recognized as the promised king of the Jews who would save his people from their enemies and be a righteous judge and ruler. Many were in disbelief when he didn’t become king but instead was taken to be crucified where he was mocked as a king by the current rulers and judges.
What do we know from scripture,
God visited Jesus at the river Jordan anointing him with His Spirit and sending him out as the Christos where God was holding his hand leading him in all his ways. He was sent to preach the word of the coming kingdom of God to which he would be king overall of. Not too much time after he was sent out did the rulers and the judges plot to take him captive, as his words threatened their own authority and positions of power. While he was sent he had authority over unclean spirits, he declared himself lord of the Sabbath, he made judgements upon the people able to read their hearts and minds. He had powers that any current ruler or judge would kill to have. Though he was the promised king showing his mighty powers, he was made lower than the rulers and judges at that time, for Jesus knew that he would be obeying God where they were going to judge him holding his life in their hands. Jesus knew he would be persecuted unto suffering and death. When he went to the cross he was made as low as you can go, rejected and despised.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed…..
Psalms 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Matthew 27:28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. 29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! 30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head. 31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.
Psalms 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (elohiym- rulers, judges), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Hi Danny,
Part 2,
Gal 3:13 Christ did redeem us from the curse of the law, having become for us a curse, for it hath been written,
Cursed is every one who is hanging on a tree,' 14 <strong>that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith.</strong> 15 Brethren, as a man I say it, even of man <strong>a confirmed covenant</strong> no one doth make void or doth add to, 16 and <strong>to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed</strong>; <strong>He doth not say,And to seeds,’ as of many, but as of one, `And to thy seed,’ which is Christ; 17 and this I say, A covenant confirmed before by God to Christ, the law, that came four hundred and thirty years after, doth not set aside, to make void the promise, 18 for if by law be the inheritance, it is no more by promise, but to Abraham through promise did God grant it. 19 Why, then, the law? on account of the transgressions it was added, till the seed might come to which the promise hath been made, having been set in order through messengers in the hand of a mediator –– 20 and the mediator is not of one, and God is one 21 the law, then, is against the promises of God? — let it not be! for if a law was given that was able to make alive, truly by law there would have been the righteousness, 22 but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. 23 And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, 24 so that the law became our child-conductor –– to Christ, that by faith we may be declared righteous, 25 and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we, 26 for ye are all sons of God through the faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many as to Christ were baptized did put on Christ; 28 there is not here Jew or Greek, there is not here servant nor freeman, there is not here male and female, for all ye are one in Christ Jesus; 29 and if ye are of Christ then of Abraham ye are seed, and according to promise — heirs.Hebrews 2:10 For it was becoming to Him, because of whom are the all things, and through whom are the all things, many sons to glory bringing, the author of their salvation through sufferings to make perfect, 11 for both he who is sanctifying and those sanctified are all of one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying,
I will declare Thy name to my brethren, in the midst of an assembly I will sing praise to Thee;' and again,I will be trusting on Him;’ 13 and again, `Behold I and the children that God did give to me.’14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death — that is, the devil — 15 and might deliver those, whoever, with fear of death, throughout all their life, were subjects of bondage, 16 for, doubtless, of messengers it doth not lay hold, but of seed of Abraham it layeth hold, 17 wherefore it did behove him in all things to be made like to the brethren, that he might become a kind and stedfast chief-priest in the things with God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people, 18 for in that he suffered, himself being tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.Hebrews 3:3 for of more glory than Moses hath this one been counted worthy, inasmuch as more honour than the house hath he who doth build it, 4 for every house is builded by some one, and He who the all things did build is God, 5 and Moses indeed was stedfast in all his house, as an attendant, for a testimony of those things that were to be spoken, 6 and Christ, as a Son over his house, whose house are we, if the boldness and the rejoicing of the hope unto the end we hold fast. 7 Wherefore, (as the Holy Spirit saith,
To-day, if His voice ye may hear -- 8 ye may not harden your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of the temptation in the wilderness, 9 in which tempt Me did your fathers, they did prove Me, and saw My works forty years; 10 wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, Always do they go astray in heart, and these have not known My ways; 11 so I sware in My anger, If they shall enter into My rest -- !') 12 See, brethren, lest there shall be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in the falling away from the living God, 13 but exhort ye one another every day, while the To-day is called, that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of the sin, 14 <strong>for partakers we have become of the Christ, if the beginning of the confidence unto the end we may hold fast,</strong> 15 in its being said,To-day, if His voice ye may hear, ye may not harden your hearts, as in the provocation,’ 16 for certain having heard did provoke, but not all who did come out of Egypt through Moses; 17 but with whom was He grieved forty years? was it not with those who did sin, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness? 18 and to whom did He swear that they shall not enter into His rest, except to those who did not believe? — 19 and we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.2 Corinthians 5: 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Jesus was born a descendent of Abraham but when he was ANOINTED at the river Jordan he became “the promised seed” of Abraham -the Christ. Anointed of the Spirit, a calling to righteousness now being the promised seed of Abraham –the Christ, he was sent out to deliver that which Moses and other messengers could not, freedom from sin and death so that we could be joint heirs with Christ, partakers of the Spirit of YHVH. The anointed Jesus was like his brethren able to be tempted and when he went to the cross God made him to be sin for us.
Jesus was a partaker of flesh and blood like everyone else, having weak mortal flesh that tempts all men. When he was anointed with the Spirit he was able to conquer the flesh that demands to be served in order to live, he through the Spirit was able to be obedient and serve God above the flesh, offering himself up, breaking the bondage of the fear of death.
Hi Jodi.
You
When he was anointed with the Spirit he was able to conquer the flesh that demands to be served in order to live, he through the Spirit was able to be obedient and serve God above the flesh, offering himself up, breaking the bondage of the fear of death.
Me
Jesus did not wait for his baptism to have the Spirit of God on Him who keeps Him from the desires of the flesh and from sin. He had the Spirit of the Father in Him from birth and that is what kept him from all evil.
Don’t you think that makes sense?
Berean…..if Jesus was God in the Flesh as you people preach, why did he even have to be Baptized, and given The Spirit of God, at the Jordan river? In what way does a Existing God, need any baptism at all, in order to receive the Spirit of God ?
Thats like saying a God needs a God Spirit given him, when he is a God already. Where does any scripture say God was baptized to receive his own Holy Spirit at?
“God the Father “IS” Holy Spirit” himself. He doesn’t need it He “is” it.
peace and love to you and yours……gene
Hi Berean,
I really appreciate your response and how you asked if that makes sense.
I want to go through some scriptures and speak to them. I’d like to speak to the big picture here.
Isaiah 7 tells us that the virgin birth was for a sign specific for the house of David regarding the identification of their promised king and savior that would come from David’s seed. The only way one could be born of a virgin would be through the power of YHVH’s Spirit. We read more about the promised seed of David that would be born of a virgin throughout the OT.
1 Chronicles 17 tells us that YHVH would raise up David’s seeds of his sons where He would make him an eternal king, He would be a Father to him, He would not take His mercy from him, He would settle him in His house.
Psalms 23 tells us, 5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
Psalms 8 tells us that YHVH would be mindful of and visit the son of a human (David of his sons) where he’d be made a little lower than the elohiym but then be crowned with glory and honor given dominion over all that YHVH had made.
Psalms 89 tells us that YHVH would make him His firstborn, higher than all the kings.
Isaiah 11, 42 and 61 tells us that YHVH would rest His Spirit on Jesse’s son, a calling to righteousness where he’d be sent out to speak YHVH’s word including prophecy of YHVH’s kingdom, perform signs and miracles, and deliver captives setting people at liberty from sin and death and one day judge the world, put all enemies under his feet and bring everlasting peace.
Isaiah 46 tells us that God declared the end from the beginning and that it would be a man who would execute His purpose, bringing forth righteousness and salvation. God said, ” I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.”
Isaiah 53 tells us that a man would be wounded and crucified, bearing our iniquities where YHVH said, “I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death.”
Matthew 1 gives us the fulfillment of 1 Chronicles 17:11 and that of the virgin birth of Isaiah 7, a son of David raised up from David’s sons born of a virgin.
Luke 1 tells us that Zacharias prophesied through the Holy Spirit saying, “blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began”.
Acts 13 tells us, “I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Exodus 4 tells us that YHVH was a Father unto the children of Israel, “And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.”
Deuteronomy tells us, 1:31 And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place. 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee. 14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead. 32:6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
Isaiah tells us, 43: 5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; 6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth. 63:8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour. 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting. 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Hosea tells us, 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Jeremiah tells us, 3:4 Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou art the guide of my youth? 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel..
Luke 2 tells us, “the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him“. When he was 12 years old he brought sorrow unto his parents when they believed he was traveling with them but instead he stayed behind where they went back and found him in the temple with teachers where he said he was about his Father’s business. He returned with them to Nazareth where he was subject unto them and he continued to “increase in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.”
Truly, the Father of Israel was a guide unto his youth!
Matthew 3 gives us the fulfillment of Isaiah 11, 42, and 61, the calling to righteousness of the son of Jesse for to fulfill YHVH covenant. The promised man to whom God would anoint with His Spirit, thus making him the anointed (Christos).
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him,Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Jesus of Nazareth, of the tribe of Judah was a son of YHVH being of YHVH’s firstborn Israel. He is YHVH’s beloved Son, an exalted one chosen out of the people to be a savior. YHVH as a Father does, held his hand and kept him for to be a light sending him out into the world to fulfill YHVH’s purpose that this man had been declared to fulfill from the beginning.
John 3 tells us,
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God…5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jesus was born of flesh and blood and he at the river Jordan was born of water and of the Spirit having been anointed (Christos) of the Spirit. Jesus having been born of the Spirit, an anointing, was sent out into the world coming in the flesh. The promised seed of Abraham – Christ, had come into the world being not of the world but of God from heaven. He was sent thus from heaven as he was was sent from God where having been born again he was sent to preach the kingdom of Heaven, the kingdom of God.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Mark 14:36 And he said,Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Read again,
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Hebrews 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; 20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus,
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Read again,
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Acts 13:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration (NEW BIRTH) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Ephesians 9:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
Berean, this is what I know from scripture,
Jesus from his conception was holy –SET APART by YHVH where many promises unto this seed of David would come to be fulfilled in him, promises spoken by the prophets from the beginning. He grew with the grace of God upon him being filled with wisdom and being waxed strong in spirit. The Father of Israel was a guide to him from his youth. When he was about 30 years old HE WAS BAPTIZED where coming out of the water cleansed, the Spirit came down to abode upon him, called an anointing and a calling to righteousness where YHVH would hold his hand and keep him to fulfill His covenant and be for a light. This Son of YHVH was then sent being the only begotten of the Spirit without measure filled with all goodness, righteousness and truth. YHVH we are told perfected this Son as he learned obedience by that which he suffered and it was through the Eternal Spirit that was upon him did he offer himself up unto death.
It is the Spirit of YHVH that causes righteousness and it is the Spirit of YHVH that causes life eternal, one must be born of the Spirit, an ANOINTING (Christos), to enter into the kingdom of God. The anointed Jesus is our proof. He was born of the Spirit and it was because of the righteousness of God in him he was raised from the dead for his obedience. When he was raised from the dead he was on that day begotten of God, receiving the Spirit as was promised. Now we are counted as righteous, promised to receive the Spirit as he did, through our faith.
1 Peter 1: 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Ephesians 4: 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
We are justified through the anointed Jesus, we are justified by YHVH because His anointing Spirit causes righteousness and therefore it is a gift of eternal life. The fullness of the Spirit produces a perfect man, an eternal Son of God who is of faith and is obedient, able to walk in all of YHVH’s ways.
Hi Berean,
To answer your question in short.
1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
CHRIST was without sin, and Jesus of Nazareth was anointed (chrio – to anoint becoming thus the Christos –anointed) at the river Jordan. He was anointed of the Spirit, a CALLING TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, where YHVH would direct ALL his ways and from there no sin was found in him. As you are told in Matthew 3, he had to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness, and upon his baptism the Spirit descended upon him without measure, and the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth.
All scripture that speaks of Jesus being without sin are pertaining to him as the anointed Jesus, not him from his birth.
@Jodi @genebalthrop @Lightenup @berean @carmel
Thanks for your posts.
I have to make a deep research.Goodbye and God bless.
Danny
Hi Berean,
Let me clarify my position as I believe your question is not legitimate according to scripture, it’s a question that is coming out from tradition.
With that being said I will say, according to traditional Christian belief (not my belief) Jesus remained without sin from his birth because he was God the son sent down from heaven.
According to scripture however there is actually not a single passage that claims that Jesus never sinned from his birth unto his death.
The scriptures that speak of a man who was without sin all pertain to the ANOINTED Jesus, the anointed Jesus remained without sin. As we are told, Jesus was anointed with the Spirit without measure, and the fruit of that Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth, hence why the anointed Jesus we are told remained without sin.
Hi Jodi,
YOU: When he was 12 years old he brought sorrow unto his parents when they believed he was traveling with them but instead he stayed behind where they went back and found him in the temple with teachers where he said
he was about his Father’s business.
ME: THE ABOVE DECLARATION FROM A BOY OF 12, ISN’T ENOUGH FOR YOU TO CONVINCE YOU THAT JESUS WAS ALREADY ANOINTED the fact that He said that HE INITIATED HIS FATHER’S BUSINESS!
Have you got a suggestion, WHAT JESUS’FATHER’S BUSINESS WAS Jodi.?
Hereunder it is hinted out what did Jesus mean with His Father’s business READ:
John8:42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father,
you would indeed love me.
For from God I proceeded and came;
for I came not of myself, but he sent me: 43Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word.
44You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do.
WHO WERE THE PHARISEES Jodi,?
He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45But if I say the truth, you believe me not.
46Which of you shall convinceth me of sin?
THE ABOVE Jodi IS A STATEMENT BY JESUS WHICH MAKES ONE PONDER, CONSIDERING THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS LIFE PRECISELY HIS HIDDEN YEARS!
JESUS WAS NOT JUST TALKING TO THE PHARISEES BUT HE WAS USING THEM IN ORDER TO SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE WHOM HE WAS TO SATAN.
WHO WAS STILL DELUDED AND UNDER THE IMPRESSION NOT ONLY THAT JESUS WAS NOT THE SON OF GOD BUT THAT HE COULD EVEN BE THE ANTICHRIST.
If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me?
47He that is of God, heareth the words of God.Therefore you hear them not,
because you are not of God.
FROM VERSE TWELVE TILL THE END OF THIS CHAPTER IS A CLEAR EVIDENCE OF WHAT JESUS HAS BEEN THROUGH, NOT ONLY THROUGHOUT HIS HIDDEN YEARS BATTLING WITH SATAN AND HIS ENTIRE FORCE TO DEFEAT HIM AND FORCE HIM TO COMMIT SIN, BUT ALSO OF HIS PRE-EXISTENCE AND HIS TASK AS A SPIRIT THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS OF HIS COMING INTO THIS WORLD, EVEN SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD.Rev.13:8
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Berean…..I, really can’t add to what Jodi has said, to you. It’s all there in our scriptures, the question is do you believe it or not? , Are you going to allow yourself, to suffer the consequences of fallen Christianity? . What Jodi and I have been telling you is the truth, brother.
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Hi Carmel,
Don’t you realize that the teachers to whom Jesus was with in the temple would have said that they were about their Father’s business TOO. They were ALL about THEIR Father YHVH’s business.
What were they talking about, what were they teaching…the scriptures and Jesus was hearing them and asking them questions. They most certain would have taught and spoke to YHVH as being THEIR FATHER and Jesus’s Father thus also.
Exodus 4 tells us that YHVH was a Father unto the children of Israel, “And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.”
Deuteronomy tells us, 1:31 And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place. 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee. 14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead. 32:6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
Isaiah tells us, 43: 5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; 6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth. 63:8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour. 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting. 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Hosea tells us, 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Jeremiah tells us, 3:4 Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou art the guide of my youth? 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel..
Hi jodi,
YOU: Hi Carmel,
Don’t you realize that the teachers to whom Jesus was with in the temple would have said that they were about their Father’s business TOO. They were ALL about THEIR Father YHVH’s business.
Jodi FIRST AND FOREMOST
NOT MERE TEACHERS BUT
DOCTORS
Now the above is a clear confirmation from you that
JESUS WAS ANOINTED BY THE SPIRIT!
SINCE YOU ARE CONSIDERING JESUS A MERE BOY OF TWELVE
PARRALELED WITH
THE DOCTORS OF HIS TIME!
Read attentively and accept the truth!
And it came to pass, that, after three days, they found him in the temple,
sitting in the midst of the doctors,
hearing them, and asking them questions.
ASKING THE DOCTORS QUESTIONS Jodi! A MERE BOY OF TWELVE! AT THAT AGE MYSELF I COULDN’T EVEN IMAGINE WHAT MY BIRTH OR DEATH IS! SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING, AND JESUS WAS DEFINITELY DISCUSSING HIS FATHER’S BUSINESS:
SPIRITUAL!
Read the next piece now:
47And all that heard him were astonished at his wisdom and his answers.
48And seeing him, they wondered. And his mother said to him: Son, why hast thou done so TO US? behold thy father
ACCORDING TO YOU, JOSEPH’S SPERM WAS JESUS! YOU REALLY ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND!
and I HAVE sought thee sorrowing.
49And he said to them: How is it that YOU sought me? did YOU not know,
that I must be about my father’s business?
50And THEY ( THE DOCTORS AND HIS PARENTS)
understood not the word that he spoke unto them.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel,
You INSERT your own imagination into passages all the while ignoring the truth clearly give to you and not applying it directly where it is to be applied to.
Luke 2:39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. 40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
46:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the didaskalos, both hearing them, and asking them questions. 47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
The word is Didaskalos – a teacher
in the NT one who teaches concerning the things of God, and the duties of man
one who is fitted to teach, or thinks himself so
the teachers of the Jewish religion
Master (Jesus) 40, teacher 10, master 7, doctor 1
Carmel, verse 39 tells you why Jesus had UNDERSTANDING to which the teachers were astonished, because God’s grace was upon him where he had been growing being filled with wisdom.
These teachers are teaching the things of God and the duties of man.
Deuteronomy tells us, 1:31 And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place. 8:5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee. 14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead. 32:6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
Isaiah tells us, 43: 5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; 6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth. 63:8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour. 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting. 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Carmel, you think these teachers of God where are all ignorant of these passages as well as others where YHVH is said to be THEIR FATHER?
Luke 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business? 50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. 51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.
“THEY” are his parents, PERIOD. Jesus brought sorrow unto his parents for how he dealt with them, deserting them with out their knowledge. He left with them where he was SUBJECT unto them, needing to OBEY them. As he grew OBEYING his parents, he increased in wisdom and favor with God and man.
Biblical facts:
1 Chronicles 17 says that YHVH promised to raise up a seed of David who would be OF David’s sons and YHVH WOULD BE a Father unto this son of David, and God WOULD give him an eternal throne and He WOULD settle him in His House.
Matthew 1 gives us the ORIGIN/GENESIS of Jesus where he is said to be the son of David and we are giving the lineage of David according to his sons that go all the way to Joseph, the very husband of his mother. We are told that the virgin birth was FOR A SIGN and a virgin birth could only be possible through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 7:6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal: 7 Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. …10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying, 11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. … 13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
YHVH would not stand for the evil council of men who wanted to take over the throne and place their own descendant from another tribe upon it, it was not YHVH’s plan. YHVH’s plan was for a son of David of his sons to be an eternal king. The virgin birth was for a sign unto the house of David to identify their promised descendent who would be an eternal king.
You and others just choose to completely ignore that the virgin birth was FOR A SIGN UNTO THE HOUSE OF DAVID and that it had everything to do with the kingship of Judah, instead you SPEAK LIES and say it was because God united himself with a woman’s egg. You pay no mind that Joseph’s fathers were kings, that he was a son of king David to whom YHVH had made many promises to concerning his future son that would be of his sons. No mind that we are given the GENESIS/ORIGIN/GENEALOGY of Jesus that goes from Abraham to David to Joseph.
Imagine that, YHVH had Mary become pregnant with her own husband’s seed who was of the House of David of the kings of Judah, where He did so through the power of His Spirit for to fulfill His sign so that the promised king of the house of David could be identified.
Father in Heaven Yahweh lead me into all the truth of your Holy Word the Bible through your holy spirit.
I pray in the name of your Holy Son Jesus/Yeshua. Amen.Hi Jodi,
YOU: YHVH had Mary become pregnant with her own husband’s seed
ME: The above is not YOUR IMAGINATION INSERTED IN THE PASSAGES,
EXPECTING GOD TO USE THE EGG OF MARY AND THE SPERM OF JOSEPH IN ORDER TO HAVE HIS SON, I MEAN:
BOTH THE SON OF GOD and THE SON OF MAN.
DIDN’T GOD CREATE THE FIRST ADAM OUT OF MUD?
John 8:42Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me.
For from God I proceeded, and came;
for I came not of myself, but he sent me:
John 16:48 I came forth from the Father,
and am come into the world: again I leave the world, and I go to the Father.
Tell me Jodi WHAT THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES TELL YOU WITH THE WORDS:
proceeded, and came;
and
came forth from the Father,
ISN’T IT A CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT JESUS WAS TOTALLY
THE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE? Hebrews 1:3
Will you do me a favour and specify where I inserted my imagination please?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Tell me Jodi WHAT THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES TELL YOU WITH THE WORDS:
proceeded, and came;
andcame forth from the Father,
ISN’T IT A CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT JESUS WAS TOTALLYTHE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE? Hebrews 1:3
Will you do me a favour and specify where I inserted my imagination please?
Amen Carmel
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
