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Mike…..your drawing has nothing to what i believe or have ever said, so that is a lie, but it is more like your “flat earth” BS, WHERE “YOU” BELIEVE, THE SUN AND MOON ARE WITHIN “THE DOME”. Don’t try to pass if of on something i said. Because that, is a lie.
What you only prove is this, “it’s hard to catch a snake, in a brair patch”.
Mike you skirt all around to try to find something that you can say your right about, but the truth is, you well know by now, the earth is not flat, So your straw arguments are your atempts to try to find “SOMETHING” you can say, your right about. IMO
Fact is you are wrong about nearly everything that you are using to suport the ““flat earth” theory. We have thousands of real proofs that this earth is indeed a sphere, spinning and moving around our sun . If you can’t get past that false understanding you have , your just stuck there and will be for life, unless the light finally turns on, MIKE.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
A picture is worth a thousand words, but will it be worth an apology from Pretender? He posted this yesterday…
His false accusations against me stem from the part underlined in red at the top. He somehow has it in his mind that the statement from Eric Dubay that I posted for Berean either directly states or implies that the “scientific consensus” says that the 4000 mile (0.00004%) difference in distance between the Sahara and Antarctica is the reason for our seasons.
Of course neither Eric nor I directly stated or even implied/suggested that this is what “scientific consensus” says. In fact, this is the very last post on page 282 of this thread (Post #937829), from a week ago . Berean asked me how seasons work on the Biblical Earth, and I posted a video. Then, right under the video I posted…
Hey Pretender! Can you see the very first statement I made after the video? It’s at the top of the picture. Maybe you could have your 12 year old son read it to you.
I told Berean point blank what the “scientific consensus” says the reason for our seasons is, didn’t I?
In fact, I then posted an IMAGE of the alleged tilt, followed by a paragraph further explaining what the “scientific consensus” says about seasons, didn’t I? Everything in the red box is me telling Berean point blank what the “scientific consensus” says about seasons, Pretender!
Now have your son read the very last line of the post to you. It’s the link to Eric Dubay’s “200 Proofs”, isn’t it? What’s that tell you? I didn’t post a single thing from Eric Dubay until AFTER I clearly told Berean the “official” reason for our seasons, right?
So Pretender, when you accused me of trying to deceive and lie to Berean by hiding what the “scientific consensus” says about seasons in an attempt to convince him that THEY say it is the distance between the Sahara and Antarctic, were you right? Or wrong?
Then… AFTER THAT… this was my next post on the top of page 283…
Are you starting to get things UNJUMBLED in your mind yet? Can you now see that AFTER I told (and showed) Berean the “scientific consensus” reason for seasons, I then debunked their silly reason with the common sense that a TILT that makes a 3 THOUSAND mile difference in distance between the North Pole and the sun couldn’t possibly overcome the 3 MILLION miles THEY tell us the sun is FARTHER AWAY from the earth during the northern summer.
Can you follow the logic here? Have your son help you out…
The alleged tilt brings the North Pole 3000 miles CLOSER to the sun at the very time the earth itself is 3,000,000 miles FARTHER from the sun… yet the tiny tilt is supposed to overcome the HUGE increase in distance from the heat source, and somehow make it WARMER? Only an idiot would believe such nonsense.
There was a flat earther that made a HILARIOUS video concerning this nonsense. A little boy was trying to roast a marshmallow over a campfire. It wasn’t roasting fast enough for him. Then you hear his Dad telling him, “Just tilt the marshmallow, Charlie!” He gives it a little tilt and it immediately catches fire! 😅😄🤣😂
Sadly, you can’t find that video anymore, since as you already know, the powers that be censor anything that might lead to or be construed as truth. And that was a GREAT visualization of the heliocentric nonsense that a tiny little tilt can make one half of a ball drastically hotter or colder… especially when the sun is supposed to be 100 times larger than the earth and its rays hit the earth in direct lines from top to bottom (unlike the deceptive image YOU posted that implied a tiny little sun that couldn’t even light up the top and bottom of the earth ball).
Anyway, you accused me of…
1. Directly stating or implying that the “scientific consensus” says that the difference in DISTANCE causes our seasons. I did no such thing.
2. Lying by omission by deceptively leading Berean to believe that the “scientific consensus” says the distance is the reason – without telling him that they actually say the tilt is the reason. I did no such thing.
So now what? As I repeatedly said, it was a misunderstanding on your part. And now I spent an hour of my life clipping photos and SHOWING you that it was indeed a misunderstanding on your part.
Apology finally forthcoming? Or will your wounded pride convince you to KEEP accusing me of things you now know for a fact I didn’t do? (I’m still holding my breath from last time.)
Gene: Mike…..your drawing has nothing to what i believe or have ever said, so that is a lie…
Boy, your buddy Tater is really teaching you all his bad habits, isn’t he? Now YOU’RE accusing me of lying too?
Okay. But let’s see if I really WAS lying to you.
1. Scripture says God created the raqia to divide the waters above the raqia from the waters below the raqia. Are we in agreement so far? YES or NO?
2. Scripture says God placed the sun, moon, and stars IN the raqia. Are we in agreement still? YES or NO?
3. If the waters are ABOVE the thing that God placed the sun, moon and stars IN, then the waters must also be ABOVE the sun, moon, and stars. Are we still in agreement, Gene? YES or NO?
4. Clouds are not ABOVE the sun, moon and stars. Are we still in agreement? YES or NO?
5. Therefore, clouds can’t possibly be the waters ABOVE the raqia that the sun, moon and stars are IN, since the waters ABOVE the raqia must also be ABOVE the things that are IN the raqia.
Have we come to an understanding yet, Gene? YES or NO?
Proclaimer: You forgot one other point, your God is in the raqia
No, God is not in the raqia. Your diversion has been addressed by me at least 4 different times now. Please either refute my explanation, or stop claiming the thing that I already debunked.
We all realize that this is just your way of diverting attention away from your “cloud theory” failure. But it’s not working, Sport. We all already know that your and Gene’s cloud idea was a failure – with or without you guys being honorable enough to admit that you were wrong.
The five points/questions in the post above to Gene go for you too, Pretender. I’m hoping that you’ll give rational, honest, back and forth adult discussion another chance.
Mike’s Model contradicts Scripture
No, God is not in the raqia. Your diversion has been debunked by me at least 4 different times now.
You can point out this or that, but you haven’t answered why your version of heaven / raqia contradicts scripture.
So we are faced with either scripture being wrong or your model.
Therefore, if you believe scripture, you lose.
You see, the truth doesn’t contradict itself.
You have to address this discrepancy directly if you wish to be credible.
But sad to say, you lost all credibility years ago here.
And God called the raqia heaven.
The Lord is in His holy temple; the Lord’s throne is IN heaven;
Pray then like this: “Our Father IN heaven, hallowed be your name.
DEBUNK STATUS: Debunked.
Simple Version for Mike
No, God is not in the raqia.
Just in case my post above is too complex for you to comprehend, I offer this trimmed down explanation.
God called the raqia heaven and God dwells IN heaven.
Something is awry with your model.
Lol.
The alleged tilt brings the North Pole 3000 miles CLOSER to the sun at the very time the earth itself is 3,000,000 miles FARTHER from the sun… yet the tiny tilt is supposed to overcome the HUGE increase in distance from the heat source, and somehow make it WARMER? Only an idiot would believe such nonsense.
Mike, stop peddling this lie as it is NOT the scientific reason for the temperature difference.
Stop lying.
You are deceived and trying to deceive others.
Thats correct Proclaimer, God called the firmament, “heaven”, or sky. IN SHORT, EVERYTHING ABOVE THE EARTH, IS HEAVEN OR HEAVENS.. ie, SKY.
What Mike does is try to change a common understood wording and complicate it, then make up his own rendition for it, this is his common deception process, not only with his “flat earth” , BS, but with many of bible subjects also, things like there are many human Gods. He seems unable to put the whole contexts said about things together, to draw right conclusions even with scriptures.
He knows full well we have a 24/7 view of this earth being shown to us every single second of every day, that he as well as anyone else can see , being transmitted to us from the ISS, every second of every day. That totally destorys “ALL” his Flat Earth , BS. , and if he dosen’t know that , then he is dumber than a bage of hammers, IMO.
YOU and I, and many other videos, you have posted, have shown him hundreds of proof that his “flat earth” bs, is wrong, and is being proven constantly wrong by “true” science every single day, for all to see for themselves. He refuses to accept he is wrong, no matter how much proof is given him.
Peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer……….gene
Proclaimer: You forgot one other point, your God is in the raqia
Mike: No, God is not in the raqia.
Berean :On this point Mike is correct.
I also say:
ACCORDING TO THESE TEXTS BELOW
We can believe that GOD WITH CHRIST IS IN HEAVEN (Third Heaven), IN PARADISE (NOT THE RAQIYA)
1Kgs.8
[39] Then hear thou
in heaven thy dwelling place
, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;)
Luke.23
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today , shalt thou be with me in paradise.2Cor.12
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
[3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
[4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.Rev.2
[7] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.AND ALSO
John.14
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[2] In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
[3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.@t8 @genebalthrop
Yes, God called the raqia heaven. But there are three heavens. (2 Corinthians 12:2)
I agree with Mike and Berean that the raqia is not the highest heaven.Ahhh, dabbs, you are getting it now. Berean missed the point.
There are three heavens.
This solves your waters above the stars problem.
So there is raqia between the water on the surface of our planet and in the sky as clouds that condense as rain and snow.
And then there are stars in the raqia which is probably the second heaven.
And God is in the raqia, but the third heaven.
Amen dabber.
Can we move on now to bigger things?
As for Berean: God called the raqia – heaven.
YOU and I, and many other videos, you have posted, have shown him hundreds of proof that his “flat earth” bs, is wrong, and is being proven constantly wrong by “true” science every single day, for all to see for themselves. He refuses to accept he is wrong, no matter how much proof is given him.
That’s right gene.
He is not interested in the truth.
He is interested in his viewpoint being right at all costs.
This is why he believes the lie.
Because when a person loves not the truth, they will believe the lie instead.
Great additional support, Berean! Here’s some more…
Psalm 148 is broken into 2 parts. The first part deals with heaven and the things associated with heaven…
1Hallelujah!
Praise the LORD from the heavens; praise Him in the highest places.
2Praise Him, all His angels; praise Him, all His heavenly hosts.
3Praise Him, O sun and moon; praise Him, all you shining stars.
4Praise Him, O highest heavens, and you waters above heaven.
5Let them praise the name of the LORD, for He gave the command and they were created.
6He established them forever and ever; He issued a decree that will never pass away.
The second part deals with earth and the things associated with earth…
7Praise the LORD from the earth, all great sea creatures and ocean depths,
8lightning and hail, snow and clouds, powerful wind fulfilling His word,
9mountains and all hills, fruit trees and all cedars,
10wild animals and all cattle, crawling creatures and flying birds,
11kings of the earth and all peoples, princes and all rulers of the earth,
12young men and maidens, old and young together.
Gene and Proclaimer, notice that the “waters above heaven” are included in the “things of heaven” category, while CLOUDS are included in the “things of earth” category. It’s almost as if clouds are NOT the “waters above heaven”, huh? In fact, lightning, hail, and snow (all things that are associated with clouds) are listed in the earth category – not the heaven category.
Gene and Proclaimer, do you think the psalmist was referring to clouds when he said waters above heaven, AND THEN AGAIN when he said clouds?
It’s an easy Yes or No question for you both. What is the answer guys?
Gene: Thats correct Proclaimer, God called the firmament, “heaven”, or sky. IN SHORT, EVERYTHING ABOVE THE EARTH, IS HEAVEN OR HEAVENS.. ie, SKY.
And what are the waters ABOVE the SKY, Gene? Clouds are certainly IN the sky. But what are the waters ABOVE the sky?
Mike: The alleged tilt brings the North Pole 3000 miles CLOSER to the sun at the very time the earth itself is 3,000,000 miles FARTHER from the sun… yet the tiny tilt is supposed to overcome the HUGE increase in distance from the heat source, and somehow make it WARMER? Only an idiot would believe such nonsense.
Pretender: Mike, stop peddling this lie as it is NOT the scientific reason for the temperature difference.
Stop lying.
You are deceived and trying to deceive others.
😄😅😂🤣 You just couldn’t bring yourself to do it, could you? After being shown that you were WRONG about the things you accused me of lying about, you just couldn’t quite muster up a retraction and apology, huh? 😉
You skipped right past the part where I thoroughly exposed your misunderstanding, and instead doubled down by calling me a liar over something completely different! You’re too much, man! 😆
Just so you guys know, Pretender is doing this as a prelude. He figures that if every single thing he says concerning me is an accusation of how I lie and try to deceive other members here, after he has warned me enough times to “stop lying”, he can then announce that he’s had no choice but to permanently ban me from his site, because he can no longer sit idle and “let a promoter of lies and deception” corrupt the minds of the other members of HN.
It’s coming. Just you watch. He’s running scared, and simply has no choice but to either be exposed or censor the one exposing him. Now which of those do you think Pretender will choose? 🤔
As for your comment, Pretender, the alleged tilt IS the Scientism reason for SEASONS – which is what I was talking about. But just so we’re all on the same page, why don’t you tell us point blank what IS “the scientific reason for the temperature difference”?
And then we can all TALK about that reason, and see if it is valid by comparing your “tiny sun” image to my “huge sun” image. Deal? 😉
Danny: @t8 @genebalthrop
Yes, God called the raqia heaven. But there are three heavens. (2 Corinthians 12:2)
I agree with Mike and Berean that the raqia is not the highest heaven.Yes. When God created the raqia and named it heaven, it was the ONLY heaven. As time went by, God’s people started differentiating between the place where the clouds are (the first heaven), the raqia where the luminaries are (the second heaven – second in height, but still first in existence), and the dwelling place of God (the third and highest heaven).
The waters above are above THE RAQIA (the second heaven). They are not above the first heaven where clouds float and birds fly. They are not above the third heaven where God dwells. But they ARE above the second heaven (the original heaven), which has floodgates in it that God opened to let the waters above the raqia flood the earth, and then closed 40 days later.
Pretender, your “pagan religion” meme is not very good for your cause. First of all, it makes a stronger argument for “firmament” than for “expanse”.
Secondly, even IF you want to use “expanse”, you still have to determine what the waters ABOVE THE EXPANSE are. Remember, they are not IN the expanse… but ABOVE the expanse.
And thirdly, you show how all the ancient cultures believed in a flat earth with a solid dome over it. All of these people came from Adam. All of them were scattered apart when God destroyed the Tower of Babel. Yet all of them ended up with an account of a worldwide flood with only 8 survivors, and the same belief in a dome covered earth… JUST LIKE THE BIBLE TEACHES!
Interesting, eh?
Pretender: There are three heavens.
This solves your waters above the stars problem.
So there is raqia between the water on the surface of our planet and in the sky as clouds that condense as rain and snow.
And then there are stars in the raqia which is probably the second heaven.
And God is in the raqia, but the third heaven.
Not three raqias, Pretender, but three heavens. The raqia is the firmament, and there is only one of those. The luminaries are IN it, and the waters are ABOVE it.
I think you’re getting confused because God NAMED the firmament “heaven”. Raqia doesn’t actually MEAN “heaven”. That is a different Hebrew word.
So when the Bible talks of three different heavens, it is not talking about three different raqias. There is still only one of those, and it is the second of the three different heavens.
The Hebrew word for heaven, heavens, and sky, is shamayim
Not three raqias, Pretender, but three heavens. The raqia is the firmament, and there is only one of those. The luminaries are IN it, and the waters are ABOVE it.
WRONG!
Let there be a raqia in the midst of the waters [Heb. mayim], and let it separate the waters from the waters. And God made the raqia, and separated the waters which were below the raqia from the waters which were above the raqia; and it was so. And God called the raqia heaven [Heb. shamayim]. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day’ (Gen. 1:6-8).
Shamayim, this is a plural form which in English is often translated by the singular term ‘heaven,’ but it is acceptable to translate it as ‘heavens.’
Hebrew uses no singular form of the word. The same is true of the word mayim, waters.
Proclaimer……To me the simplest way of saying it is, heaven is the sky above. The clouds are in the sky, the coulds are made up of water, being condensed from a gas of h2o, to a liquid state, and when they get heavy enough, the accumalated water rains on the earth as liquid water, and as it decends, if it gets below a certain tempture level it it turns to a solid state , called ice or snow. Just that simple everyone with any common sense knows that, it’s being proven every day on this earth continually.
Mike looks for any little thing he can make into a big point, that deverts from simple common understanding of nearly everyone, like his “flat earth” BS, not to even mention what science proves over and over, He trys to make himself out to be someone important, but destorts from the over all truth of things as he does it. He is very beguilding as his mentor, Satan is. I think the best thing to do is not respond to him, and just see where he takes his new converts Berean and Danny to.
Peace and love to you and your Proclaimer……….gene
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