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Oh, and btw, your meme isn’t a “zoom in” of the setting sun – as the maker DECEPTIVELY wants gullible people like you to think. It is the same distant photo that has been zoomed in on a computer. Understand? The lower image is just the upper image enlarged.
Could be. I cannot prove it either way. But deep down, you know once the sun goes over the curve, that is it. You wouldn’t be able to bring it back.
Prove me wrong.
Proclaimer, the long article you quoted has a lot of problems that I can go into if you’d like. But right now I just want to point out that it didn’t even address the waters above that the firmament supports. Or that these waters above are still there. Or that God opened floodgates in the firmament to let some of those waters flood the earth.
The writer also doesn’t address the point of my last post… the one I told you was the ONLY post I wanted you to respond to. Of course instead of doing that, you posted a long article as a diversion, and then followed it up with a post beginning with, “So now that we know the bible actually agrees with modern science in many aspects, including concurring with the expanse of heaven, I thought it good to look at the teachers and prophets of Flat Earth to see what manner of men they are.”
We see what you tried to do there, Proclaimer. You posted a lot of words that DIDN’T even address my point in an effort to get out of addressing my point, and then followed it up with a, “Well, now that Mike’s point has been addressed…” statement, and then immediately followed that up with a, “Hey! Look over here, not there! Let’s hurry up and change the subject and talk about how evil flat earthers are!”
Anyway, the point of my ONE post that I specifically requested a response to from you was this…
1. IF the “raqia” is the sky, and IF the clouds are the waters above, it mean that the clouds are ABOVE the sky.
2. And since the sun, moon and stars are IN the “raqia”, while the clouds are ABOVE it, it means that the clouds are ABOVE the sun, moon, and stars.
That’s it. It’s a very simple, scripturally backed point that I’m asking you to either refute or acknowledge. I asked the first time (in the ONE post I asked you to answer) if you were HONEST enough to acknowledge that your “cloud theory” doesn’t work. Then you did all those “hurry up and hide” activities that I mentioned above. Now I’m asking you for a second time: Proclaimer, are you HONEST enough to acknowledge that your cloud theory doesn’t work?
Proclaimer: Show the sun disappearing over the curve, then bring it back. You could do this yourself if the earth was flat. But since you don’t live near the coast, then show me another video of that.
Okay.
Proclaimer, when do you suppose you might attempt to address some of MY points?
I want to know what you think the horizon is. And I want to know how the waters ABOVE the raqia could be the clouds when the sun, moon, and stars are IN the raqia.
Thanks.
No Mike. Stop trying to skirt this reasonable request. And as for the photographer, I bet when he tried to do it when the earth was completely set, he was not able to replicate the result. Of course, he won’t mention that part.
So, let it go completely below the horizon so that it has disappeared as first requested, and then bring it back. Below is a video of a boat that is completely invisible, unlike this sun. But I argue that it was brought back because it was never over the curve to begin with. Whereas, when the sun sets, it is because it’s definitely over the curve. For this reason, it is harder to prove with a boat, but with the sun, it is conclusive. So bring back the sun in the same way this boat is brought back and let’s discuss this incredible development together. Further, the sun should be easier to bring back than this boat on a flat earth, so this is not an unreasonable request. Let’s see it. Otherwise, this alone proves the earth is not flat. Simple as that.
Proclaimer, when do you suppose you might attempt to address some of MY points?
I want to know what you think the horizon is. And I want to know how the waters ABOVE the raqia could be the clouds when the sun, moon, and stars are IN the raqia.
The Sky and Heavens
Just think of the word ‘sky’ as I have mentioned before. Waters below (the sea), and above (clouds). So clouds are above right. They are above the waters below the expanse.
And stars in the sky and clouds in the sky. Even to this day. And it doesn’t mean that they are at the same level. But in the sky.
Have you ever said that the stars are in the sky? Have you said that the clouds are in the sky? Have you ever said that the clouds are above or the stars above? They are both above and in the sky at the same time.
Further, the word heaven can mean sky, outer space, or the realm of God. Context must be used to determine which heaven is referenced. Paul after all talks about the third heaven. So by extension, perhaps there are two other layers of heaven or sky? The popular view is the first heaven being where birds fly etc. Second heaven is outer space. Third heaven is the dwelling place of God. I can’t say for sure, but it is at least logical and is the simplest way to look at it.
Mike……what you don’t realize is, your “points” are all futile, because there does not exist a “flat earth” never did exist, this is and has been proven in hundreds or thousands of different ways, we have a 24 hour observance of our planet being shown us ever second of ever day, its called the ISS “INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION”. Why not start there by proving to us that it does not exist . We can all go outside our house and with a simple cheap telescope OR SET OF BENOCLOURS, see it go around our earth, taking 24/7 pictures of our earth every second of every day, WITH our OWN EYES.
MIKE hold up you right hand and see if you have five fingers, if you can’t see then , it’s either your hand is cut off, or you are in total denial, of there existance. That is how “stupid” your”flat earth” garbage is. It is simply a waste of time even descussing it. No one in their right mind believes the earth is actually flat, in todays world, with the thousands of proofs we now have available to us today.
Peace and love to you and yours Mike………..gene
Proclaimer……. Mike is sabtaging your site, With this “flate earth” garbage, there is no point in continue this . Satan has a lot of way of throwing off the important things needed, by using his ministers of deceptions.
You need to get this site back on track brother , while you can. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours proclaimer……….gene
Proclaimer, Mike and Gene,
There is a book from a guy named William Carpenter.
Title: One Hundred Proofs that the Earth is Not a Globe
From the year 1885!!I’ve been patient with Mike. But this has come to a logical end. I’ve given Mike one last lifeline.
Bring back the sun Mike.
If you can’t do it, its game over.
Waiting…
Proclaimer: Just think of the word ‘sky’ as I have mentioned before. Waters below (the sea), and above (clouds). So clouds are above right. They are above the waters below the expanse.
The waters are above the firmament itself, Proclaimer. So if you want to erroneously call the firmament “sky”, then you must explain the waters ABOVE the sky itself. These waters are not just above the waters that are beneath the sky – but also ABOVE the entire sky itself.
Do you understand? Let me make a simple drawing…
Can you really and truly still NOT see the problem with your cloud theory? Repeat after me…
1. The sun, moon and stars are IN the firmament, while the waters are ABOVE the firmament.
2. The sun, moon and stars are IN heaven, while the waters are ABOVE heaven.
3. The sun, moon and stars are IN the sky, while the waters are ABOVE the sky.
4. The sun, moon and stars are IN the expanse, while the waters are ABOVE the expanse.
So it doesn’t matter that you don’t want to use the scriptural terms “firmament” and “heaven”. You can call it “expanse”. You can call it “sky”. You can call it “grass” if you want to. Or “chicken gravy”. Or “hot sauce”. Call it anything you want to call it.
None of that matters, Proclaimer, because whatever you call it, you have to acknowledge that the sun, moon and stars are IN it, while the waters are ABOVE it.
Proclaimer: What your posting now is shameful for your age. It’s what you would expect from a child.
Agreed. But that’s because you couldn’t get it when I spoke as an adult. I’ve had to keep dumbing it down more and more for you over the past 8 months in the hopes that you would eventually understand what I’m saying. You’ve got me speaking and drawing pictures like a child now – just so you can hopefully UNDERSTAND the very easy concepts I’m showing you.
So now… are you finally willing to admit that your cloud theory was a bust?
Gene: Proclaimer……. Mike is sabtaging your site, With this “flate earth” garbage, there is no point in continue this .
They shut down my thread on the BioLogos website last week. It went like this…
Them: If you are going to take the Biblical AGE of our world seriously, then to avoid being a hypocrite, you must also take the Biblical SHAPE of our world seriously too.
Me: That’s right.
Them: Wait a minute… are you saying you believe the Biblical description of a flat earth with a solid dome over it?
Me: That’s right.
Them: We’re not going to put up with any flat earth crap here. Only people who are deluded out of their minds and in a cult would believe such crap!
Me: Um… it’s not like I’m making something up out of thin air, here. I’m merely quoting what the Bible actually says.
Them: So you’re saying that if the earth ISN’T flat with a dome over it, the Bible is wrong?
Me: Yep. But I stand with the Bible – and with science – on both the age and the shape of our world. How about you?
Them: This thread is now closed!
😅🤣
And the sad thing was that I had 20 scientists champing at the bit to show me the errors of my ways, and teach me all about the world we actually live in. It was a VERY lively discussion that was just starting to get really good. I was even making a little headway with some of them. That thread was on the fast track to being the most popular thread in the history of that forum.
Of course that was the problem. Only one moderator had a problem with the subject matter and said that I was a cult member. I pointed out that forcing people to speak only in accordance with you personally believe is the very definition of a cult – and that NOBODY in the FE community has ever put those stipulations on anyone else in the FE community.
So while the majority wanted to continue on with the discussion, that one moderator ruined it for everyone because she couldn’t stand the thought of someone veering away from what she personally believed about the world. And it didn’t even matter to her that she was a self-professed Bible-believing Christian, and I was only pointing out things that she knew the Bible actually taught.
And now Gene hopes the same happens here, Proclaimer. I’ve already told him a dozen times that nobody has ever forced him to read or be involved with this thread in any way. Why would it bother Gene so much that OTHER PEOPLE are discussing something that he’s personally not interested in? Is he the “Discussion Police” or something?
Hey Gene, we are discussing the BIBLE here… on a BIBLE discussion forum. Try to get that through your head. If you don’t like this particular BIBLE discussion, nobody is FORCING you to have any part of it.
But since you popped in again, why don’t YOU tell us about the waters that are ABOVE the firmament/heaven/expanse/sky? What exactly are these waters ABOVE (not IN) the sky in your worldview?
Danny: Proclaimer, Mike and Gene,
There is a book from a guy named William Carpenter.
Title: One Hundred Proofs that the Earth is Not a Globe
From the year 1885!!Yes sir! Eric Dubay took many of his 200 proofs from this book and another one that I can’t remember the name of right now.
Did you know they were still teaching flat earth in public schools in the 1900’s – and some countries still do? This spinning ball story has only taken hold in the last 100 years. They present it as if it has been scientific fact for thousands of years. Nothing could be further from the truth.
There is a YouTube channel called Globebusters that I would recommend. It’s a 3 hour live show most Sundays. I just listen to it on Mondays – at 1.5 speed – as I’m driving around for work. Give it a listen sometime. I just listened to this very good one from a month ago…
Proclaimer: I’ve been patient with Mike. But this has come to a logical end. I’ve given Mike one last lifeline.
Bring back the sun Mike.
If you can’t do it, its game over.
Waiting…
Patient with ME? 😆 Says the guy who kept me waiting for six weeks because he “couldn’t find” an answer that was one day and one post removed from his question – despite me drawing him new maps and directions to that post every single week the entire time!
This time I’ve been waiting for over two months for him to answer a question in our private thread. Here is just one of the PM’s I sent about it…
That was seven weeks ago – and still no answer to the question on the private thread. Nor has he honored my request for him to remove the memes (which have nothing to do with the Bible) that he started flooding that thread with (like he does here).
But yeah, Proclaimer… YOU’RE the one who’s been patient. 🙄
Anyway, don’t worry. I’ve got a very special presentation planned for you. It was going to start with your answer to what the horizon actually is. Of course, you don’t seem to be able to answer that simple question, but no matter. My presentation will include what the horizon is on a ball earth, address your sun challenge, and so much more. And yes, I will use lots of pictures so it is easier for you to understand. I plan to do it this Friday.
But how about we get some closure on your failed cloud theory in the meantime? After all, I started my cloud rebuttal many months ago, and it has taken me this long to finally corner you on it. First things first. Are you ready to acknowledge your failure yet?
Patient with ME? Says the guy who kept me waiting for six weeks because he “couldn’t find” an answer that was one day and one post removed from his question
Mike. You sound ungrateful. Think about the time I put into this to help you out, despite knowing that flat earth was never a serious topic to begin with.
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