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Proclaimer: It’s hard to see the curvature of the earth from an altitude of 7 miles or 37,000 ft (typical cruising altitude of a jetliner)… The line of sight from an aircraft at 37,000 feet = 235 miles.
Wait a minute. The horizon is the point we cannot see beyond because the earth is curving away from us. That point is 3 miles away for a person standing on a shoreline at sea level. That is the point that we can start seeing ships disappear over the curve of the earth.
So at only 3 miles, ships disappear due to the curve, but looking left to right over 235 miles, we can’t detect any curvature? I need to draw this one out!
This is footage from 110,000 feet – almost 3 times higher than an airplane. So from point 1 on the left to point 2 on the right would be about 400 miles. The little red X on the sun’s hotspot on the clouds (an impossibility with a huge sun 93 million miles away) represents me standing on a little island in the middle of the sea. The blue shape is a HUGE ship that is about 40 miles away from me. I’m looking in the direction of the black arrow towards the ship – which is now about 200 feet below my horizon because it disappeared over the curve of the earth.
But at the same time, the balloon can’t see ANY curvature from point 1 to point 2? Are you serious with this nonsense? The ship is LONG out of my sight to to curvature, but 10 times the distance of that ship to me reveals NO curvature?
Maybe we live on a cylinder/tube instead of a ball, and so the curvature only happens directly away from you, but not to your left or right?
Proclaimer: Mike, once again, you have been DEBUNKED.
Okay champ. 😅😂
Proclaimer: I have stated numerous times that a day in relation to people is mostly going to be either 12 or 24 hours… But in relation to God without man…it will not be 24 hours.
Before men even existed, “days” were created by God, and defined by God as dark/light cycles on earth, each consisting of one evening and one morning. In other words, a “day” is a dark/light cycle on the earth – and has nothing to do with whether or not men are on the earth at any given time. The plural word “days” NEVER has any other meaning – either in the Bible or in the history of man altogether.
Secondly, God’s statement in Ex 20:9-11 was not only DIRECTLY related to people, but God even explicitly EQUATED the six days they were to work with the six days He worked on creation.
Your argument has been debunked, proving yet again that you have NO scriptural reason to suggest that the days of creation were not literal days.
This debate has been settled. Thank you for your reluctant participation.
Mike: Proclaimer, gravity is solely an ATTRACTIVE force. There is no point of equilibrium. The two stationary bodies in that video would have moved closer and closer together until they collided with each other. They wouldn’t get to a certain distance away from each other and then stop there because of some “anti-gravity repelling force”.
Proclaimer: I also think you did make a legitimate point about two objects that are attracting one another.
You are apparently acknowledging the trickery involved with that first Cavendish experiment video you posted. Well done. Now you just have to ask yourself WHY they would trick the general public like that – knowing in advance that most people will just blindly believe their claim that they proved gravity, like you did.
Proclaimer: Think of a random lump of clay. Does it have form?
Yes. All physical things have a form. Apparently even God and His spirit sons too, since they have hands and feet and wings and mouths, etc.
Proclaimer: So the planet existed, but had no form. It seems that it was probably a round rock covered in water. Something that some scientists believe too.
Actually, I looked a little deeper into your “Water World” article a while back. The author is suggesting that the earth BECAME a water world within a few million years of forming – not that it BEGAN AS a water world.
So now what? The Bible clearly says that earth was FORMED from and by water, and Scientism says it formed from molten rock. Which of the two are the truth?
Proclaimer: I remember when you had an open mind and asked questions like: were Adam and Eve the first of mankind. Could there have been people before them. They were healthy questions. Now everything revolves around this flat earth cult you joined.
That’s because I used to be like you, believing that I lived on a billions of years old spinning ball orbiting the sun, and trying to force the Bible into aligning with Scientism.
But then, thanks to Dig4Truth and many others, I looked into this stuff with an open mind and logical thinking – and realized that the only reason I believed the crap I did was because it was told to me. I just blindly accepted the most nonsensical claims you can imagine without thinking about them for even a second – like you did with that first Cavendish experiment you posted.
I’m no longer like you, David. Once I began thinking for myself, I looked at the Bible with a different insight/mindset. I realized that there exists no reason whatsoever in the entire realm of real science that I can’t accept exactly what the Bible says.
That’s why I saw that Cavendish video and my logical thinking immediately kicked in, exposing the charade. Then my logical thinking asked… WHY would they promote this to the masses as proof when it clearly isn’t?
I’m hoping you’ll eventually be able to do what I, Danny, and many millions around the world are already doing, ie: QUESTION things to see if they really ring true – or if you only believe them because men you hold in authority tell them to you.
That’s why you or Gene will NEVER produce one iota of proof that we live on a billions of years old spinning ball orbiting the sun… because the only “proof” of that you have are claims that you can’t prove and videos/images of things you couldn’t possibly confirm as authentic.
You can believe the Bible for EXACTLY what it says. Take heart in that fact.
Gene: Mike……..If the earth stoped spinning, the sun would stand still, in fact, the sun is always standing still.
Gene, Google “what would happen if the earth stopped spinning” and see what you find. Then let me know if you still want to use that as your argument.
Doesn’t matter anyway. The scripture says the sun stood still in the middle of heaven. The very fact that the Bible says the sun “stood still” means that the sun is the thing that was moving.
And what about David, filled with God’s Holy Spirit, saying that the sun “goes forth from one end of heaven and runs its circuit to the other”? (Ps 19:6)
Were David and Joshua both wrong?
How about God, who said He created the sun and placed it as a light in the firmament on Day 4? Is God wrong too?
You’re walking a slippery slope, Gene. Or, as Jesus might put it, you’re building a house on shifting sand.
I pray that you also start questioning and looking into things with an open mind and a heart centered on God and His written word.
Okay Proclaimer, I made it through to the end of the thread, and nary a word from you about my death-blow rebuttal. No problem, I’ll just go over the same points one at a time for you…
Proclaimer: The firmament is the sky Mike.
Let me stop you right there, because you’ve gone off the rails with your very first statement.
Genesis 1… 6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Can you see that God named the firmament “HEAVEN” – not “the sky”? Can you see that the firmament supports waters that are above it? What exactly are the waters above “the sky” that are being supported by the sky?
Also, if “heaven” already existed in Gen 1:1 like you claim, why would God have to create “heaven” on Day 2?
Proclaimer, your very first statement contradicts the Bible. Please ADDRESS this fact. Thanks.
Discussion Recap
Let me remind you where this discussion is at Mike.
This is not a contest. You lost.
You have been debunked on all or nearly all of your major points.
If anything hasn’t been debunked it is because it was missed or didn’t have the time at that moment to reply.
You are not kidding anyone with your nonsense except the very gullible, and you will be held accountable.
You are parroting propaganda from the cult you belong to.
The bible doesn’t say the earth is flat.
And the evidence for the globe and heliocentric model is overwhelming. Even more so after being vigorously debated and argued.
If the guy in the video below was to hear your gospel, he would probably say something like this to you.
Is the firmament the sky?
Can you see that God named the firmament “HEAVEN” – not “the sky”? Can you see that the firmament supports waters that are above it? What exactly are the waters above “the sky” that are being supported by the sky?
Also, if “heaven” already existed in Gen 1:1 like you claim, why would God have to create “heaven” on Day 2?
Proclaimer, your very first statement contradicts the Bible. Please ADDRESS this fact. Thanks.
Yes, God called the firmament, heaven.
From the ground looking up, we call the heaven/s, ‘sky’.
And birds fly in the sky do they not?
Or do they fly in heaven itself and not the earth. I saw a bird fly from one tree to another the other day. I guess those trees must be in heaven according to your strict view of firmament.
And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”
And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”
And God said, “Let the waters teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the sky.”
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”
Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”
Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”
You see Mike. After God made the heavens and the earth, he then created birds to fly in the expanse of heaven and he placed the sun and moon in that expanse. typically we call that the sky. It’s not a big deal Mike.
When you look up into the sky you see birds flying and you see the sun, moon, and stars even higher again.
Do you look into the sky to see such things?
Once again, you have been DEBUNKED.
You are apparently acknowledging the trickery involved with that first Cavendish experiment video you posted. Well done. Now you just have to ask yourself WHY they would trick the general public like that – knowing in advance that most people will just blindly believe their claim that they proved gravity, like you did.
You are being stupid Mike. The experiment was not performed to prove to you that the earth is a globe and things do not fall off because of gravity. It was performed to show the attraction of objects. The experiment succeeded in that.
The earth was flooded
Actually, I looked a little deeper into your “Water World” article a while back. The author is suggesting that the earth BECAME a water world within a few million years of forming – not that it BEGAN AS a water world.
If true, it opens up the possibility of epochs. Different worlds and ages that have existed on this planet. Maybe washed clean to create anew. After all, we know about the antediluvian world from the Bible. Who knows how many worlds there have really been. Certainly fossils show us different worlds buried under rock strata.
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
Did the sun stand still or cease to shine or what?
How could you possibly suggest that an eclipse (about 2 minutes of DARKNESS) is in any way related to a request for an extended period of DAYLIGHT?
Mike, this is something that I am not focussing on right now. I did a bit of research and the word used for stop means ‘silent’. So it could be an eclipse where the sun stopped shining. Of course it may not be that. The theory for the eclipse is that Joshua wanted the sun to be silent or stop shining because it was in the heat of the day. An an eclipse would certainly achieve that and would also be a bad omen to the enemy. I do not know how feasible this theory is, but Joshua called out to God for help, and he commanded the “sun to stand still.” But the sun was already standing still. Other translations of the original language apparently allow for “Sun, cease acting, or “Sun, stop working.”
So what was the nature of Joshua’s command? Did he want more sunlight or less sunlight? Did he need more light to win the battle or did he need relief from the heat of the sun? According to one commentary I read, in verse 9 he came upon the camp of the enemy by night. So could it be that he actually wanted extended darkness so that the night be prolonged for a surprise attack against the enemy? An eclipse could certainly fulfil that. It was early morning when he made his request as evidenced by the position of the moon in the valley of Aijalon (to the west) and the position of the sun over Gibeon (to the east) in verse 12. I am not sure how feasible these ideas really are. But neither am I focussed on this right now. I don’t want to go on another wild goose chase right now. Lol.
Another theory is that the day lasted for longer than a day. And that other cultures have recorded this special day too in their writings. Once again, I do not subscribe to that either. But I am open minded of course. Who knows. It could be that the galaxy is like a clock that reaches an end and then unwinds the other way meaning the sun simply reversed it’s circuit in the sky. Farfetched I know, but with God anything is possible. Or did he simply perform a miracle. After all, we know that you cannot break the laws of physics without consequences, but the lawmaker is greater than his own laws.
I use to build game levels back in the 1990s. I remember one day a friend asked for a deathmatch but wanted one of the standard game levels to be different. It needed this and that. He asked if I could add these in and I complied. Then we played the level. As a designer, I had the luxury of hacking into the world and changing things from my computer and then jumping in and playing a slightly different version of the game. From a character inside (if it was conscious) it would have appeared as miracles and done so in an instant. Because the game didn’t run when I did this, so I did it outside of game-time so to speak.
Whatever the reason you are bringing this subject up Mike, it neither proves your flat world or the globe. I think it is irrelevant either way. Or are you trying to say this would have been impossible for an eternal God to pull off in the heliocentric model? Whereas on the flat earth, God simply took out his remote control and left the LEDs on a bit longer than usual. If that is the case Mike, then please argue that with a 5 year old. I’m more mature than that.
Is Neil deGrasse Tyson a liar?
Not sure. I don’t think he is lying when he talks about that dude who jumped from 40km high being only 2mm high in comparison to the size of the earth. But William Shatner was 106km high. So he could well have seen the curve as he claims. Especially if you can supposedly detect the curve at a height of over 10km with a fairly wide field of view like 60 degrees. Then perhaps you can really see the curve at 100km which is space according to some definitions.
But detecting something and seeing something are two different things. You might be only 40km up and not able to see the curve, but you might detect it, if you held out just above or below the horizon.
I gave an example earlier where you can detect the curve at 20 or 30 metres high by simply observing a large boat going over the horizon and then climbing 20 metres up a hill in one minute to see the whole or more of the boat. That is not possible on a flat plane.
So in conclusion. I am not calling Tyson a liar for saying you cannot see the curve at 40km high. But you have to believe that Shatner is lying to us or that he is mistaken. But really, the latter doesn’t seem possible. He either saw it or he didn’t. So you have to hold the view that he is lying to us right? This is not a false accusation. It is simple logic derived from your arguments. You say the earth is not a globe, he says that he saw the curve, thus he must be telling porkies right?
Agreed. That does happen. But do not mix up rebuke, correction, and truth with slander. After all, Jesus did not lose against the Pharisees. He merely told the truth.
Slander is damaging a person’s reputation through false accusations.
Telling the truth is not slander.
Take responsibility Mike.
I think Mike has a point.
If you are going to believe in 6 x 24 hour creation days even before man and the sun were created, then you might as well go the whole hog and embrace the four corners of the world, the final hour being 60 minutes, and Jesus coming back with a literal sword coming out of his mouth.
I believe the DAYS of GENESIS 1 ARE 24 HOURS.
NO WHAT TO MAKE A CONTROVERSY, AND CUT YOUR HAIR IN FOUR…😒Proclaimer…….Your arguing against pure stupidity, it’s simply a waste of time. There comes a time when you need to let it go brother.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Proclaimer…….Your arguing against pure stupidity, it’s simply a waste of time. There comes a time when you need to let it go brother.
Totally agree Gene. Look at dabbs. Just posts up a meme as if this is the proof. Yet, ignores the multitude of much of which is evidence presented here. Mike deceived him.
I’m hoping to copy and paste much of the content here into a writing that will help the intellectually challenged 1 percent of people that are able to fall for the flat earth lie. That should wrap things up nicely. Then the job is done.
@t8
The idea that people are standing, ships are sailing and planes are flying upside down on certain parts of Earth while others tilted at 90 degrees and all other impossible angles is complete absurdity.
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