Flat Earth?

This topic contains 2,745 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  t8 6 hours, 57 minutes ago.

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  • #829347
     Dig4truth 
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    Wow, which is it stars or no stars???

    And not only that but the most brilliant light or thick blackness? Hmm.

    #829348
     Lightenup 
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    Mike,

    Perhaps all their answers are right in their own context from their unique perspectives. The video takes short comments out of their full context. Why aren’t you critical of that?

    From the overwhelming evidence of a globe earth in Charlie Duke’s testimony, you still want to keep this up? Watch that video over and over (as many times as you like) till you surrender to it so you can enjoy the globe earth that isn’t moved out of its orbit. Amazing isn’t it…we always have the 4 seasons every year. The earth has not moved (out of its orbit). God has kept this earth in orbit for thousands of years as long as the orbit began. What a mighty God we serve. The earth, just suspended on nothing stays on its path, nothing stops it’s orbit.

    Save yourself some time, Mike. Maybe you have been working too hard. You probably need some rest from all that work and then getting on here.

    Take care of yourself, Mike.

    #829349
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mike,

    I am the bread of life.

    I am the living bread that came down out of heaven;

    If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I give for the life of the world is my flesh.

    Man cannot live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.

    The words that I speak are spirit and they are life.

    The Spirit of life gives eternal life.

     

    The Spirit is the flesh and blood of Christ Jesus.

     

     

    #829350
     Dig4truth 
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    Mike: “For example? Would you mind listing one of them for discussion purposes?”

     

    Since you you put in a Herculean effort in your post I would be ashamed not to contribute a small portion!

    Some of the points that stood out to me:

    David (ex-NASA):  Worked for Goddard Space Center

    (His words) “No South Pole“. Worked on Data Ingest System to map Antartica. 10 years later there is still a gapping hole in the data! Google Earth still has gapping hole in center of Antartica when he was there to correct it! Information was sent to the North (Norwegian) via fiber optics! Why if there are polar orbiting satellites? EOS (Earth’s Observation Systems) which observed different spectrum still did not contribute data. It was all ground based! [Its photoshopped because it has to]. NASA missions data missing!

    Believes earth is not a spinning ball. Believes in Yeshua.

     

    Cindy (ex-NASA): Worked for Lockhead Martin, Airforce, Raytheon

    Research shows that satellites that are supposed to be there are not! Yes, people build them but the part that’s fake is at they are in space. Everything is “need to know“. “None of us know the truth!”,(the individual workers). Photographers in next office said they couldn’t believe that anyone believed in the fake moon landing! Retrospect is a backup system to back up computer systems. This would have included the moon missions!

    Believes earth is not a spinning ball. Believes in Yeshua.

     

    Many other points were made and to get their spirit of this it would be a good idea to watch.

    #829351
     Dig4truth 
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    Lightenup, what was the earth orbiting before the sun was made?

    #829352
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Mike….You simply don’t seem to get it, you seem to lack the ability to see clearly, I told you from the start there is so much overwhelming proof the woeld is indeed round. That to say it is flat is impossible, completely impossible to ask anyone here to believe.
    Yet you go forward as if none of what has been clearly presented means anything to you, something seem to prevent your ability to comprehend those proofs being given you.

    Even in spritual matters, like denying God actually did speak through The mouth of the man Jesus. Did not Jesus plainly say, “the son of man can do “NOTHING” OF “HIMSELF”, THE Father who is “IN” HIM “HE” DOES THE WORKS”.

    NICK AND I BOTH HAVE BOTH HAVE TOLD YOU THE TRUTH CONCERNING GOD THE FATHER SPEAKING DIRECTLY THROUGH THE MOUTH OF JESUS, AND SOME TIMES IN FIRST PERSON, BUT YOU NEED THE Spirit of truth to be “in” to reconize when that is happening in our scriptures. Without tbe spirit of truth in you , a person can’t pick up on it. Perhaps that is why you can’t understand the earth is indeed round, because you can’t decern the truth when it is presented to you Mike.

    I hope and pray God the Father will open up you mind to the truth, i ask it in the name of Jesus for you Mike.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #829353
     Lightenup 
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    Hi Dig4truth,

    you asked:

    Lightenup, what was the earth orbiting before the sun was made?

    Seems to me that the orbit was set into motion on day 4. It is the orbit of the earth around the sun that gives us seasons. There was no orbit before day 4, imho.

    Did you watch the video of Charlie Duke’s testimony? I really want to know what you think of it.

    LU

    #829354
     Lightenup 
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    Spoiler alert…the so-called “solid firmament” is not solid. Read on:

    Mike said

    Anthony said: Depending on the context, the word can refer to that which is immediately above us, where flying birds, clouds, and rain are.

    Mike responded: Yes, that is the first heaven – which is never referred to by raqia, since it is not solid.

     

    Genesis 1:20

    Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”

    That word for “expanse” is definitely raqia…the birds fly in the raqia. That should end this thread, Mike. Your solid heaven has just been debunked.

    Now we can move on. Mike you can no longer say that the firmament (raqia) is solid, therefore, no dome. Let’s celebrate! Thank you Jesus for making the raqia!!

    8But of the Son He says,
    “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
    AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

    9“YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
    THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
    WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

    10And,
       “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
                AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

    LU

    #829359
     t8 
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    Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”
    That word for “expanse” is definitely raqia…the birds fly in the raqia. That should end this thread, Mike. Your solid heaven has just been debunked.
    Now we can move on. Mike you can no longer say that the firmament (raqia) is solid, therefore, no dome. Let’s celebrate!

    Nice work.

    #829361
     t8 
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    Hi Mike.

    Not sure if you have seen this. If so, can you debunk it?

    #829362
     t8 
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    List of Antarctic expeditions

    Ignoring regular flights and satellite photos of the continent, there are real people who have explored the frozen continent. Below is a chronological list of expeditions involving Antarctica taken from Wikipedia 

    Pre-exploration theories

    Pre-19th century

    19th century

    20th century

    21st century

    • 2000-2001- Norwegian Liv Arnesen and the American Ann Bancroft crossed Antarctica on ski-sail from Blue 1 Runaway November 13th reaching after 94 days of expedition McMurdo, passing through the South Pole. [7]
    • 2001/2 – First and longest sea kayak expedition by New Zealanders Graham Charles, Marcus Waters and Mark Jones paddle unsupported from Hope Bay to Adelaide Island in 35 days.
    • 2004 — Scot100 First ever Scottish Expedition to South Pole [8] began in October 2004 – a century after a historic expedition led by William Speirs Bruce, Edinburgh’s “unknown” explorer, who Craig Mathieson views as “truly the greatest polar explorer of all time”.
    • 2004 — Together to the Pole – a Polish four-man expedition led by Marek Kamiński, with Jan Mela (a teenage double amputee, who in the same year reached also the North Pole)
    • 2004–2005 — Chilean South Pole Expedition.
    • 2004–2005 — Tangra 2004/05 created Camp Academia.
    • 2005 — Ice Challenger Expedition travelled to the South Pole in a six-wheeled vehicle.[9]
    • 2005–2006 — Spanish Trans-Antarctic Expedition, led by Ramon Larramendi, reached the Southern Pole of Inaccessibility using kite-sleds.[10]
    • 2006 Hannah McKeand sets coast-to-pole solo/unsupported record of 39 days, 9 hours and 33 minutes[11]
    • 2006-2007 — Jenny and Ray Jardine 57-day ski trek to South Pole [12]
    • 2007 — Pat Falvey leads an Irish team to reach the South Pole, skiing 1140 km only weeks after completing an unsupported Ski traverse of the Greenland Ice Cap in August 2007 in honour of Irish Polar Explorers such as Shakelton and Tom Crean. Clare O’Leary becomes the first Irish female to reach the South Pole.
    • 2007–2008 — Norwegian-U.S. Scientific Traverse of East Antarctica.[13]
    • 2007–2008 — British Army Antarctic Expedition 2007–2008 [14]
    • 2008 — Todd Carmichael sets coast-to-pole solo/unsupported record of 39 days, 7 hours and 49 minutes[15]
    • 2008 — First Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
    • 2008–2009 — Impossible 2 Possible (i2P) unsupported South Pole quest by Ray ZahabKevin Vallely and Richard Weber.[16]
    • 2009 — Azerbaijan Scientific Expedition
    • 2009 — Kaspersky Commonwealth Antarctic Expedition, largest and most international group of women to ski to South Pole.
    • 2009 — Second Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
    • 2009−2010 — Unsupported/Unassisted Antarctica Ski Traverse from Berkner Island to South Pole to Ross Sea by Cecilie Skog and Ryan Waters.
    • 2010 — Moon Regan Transantarctic Crossing, first wheeled transantarctic crossing and first bio-fuelled vehicle to travel to the South Pole.[17]
    • 2010 — Third Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
    • 2011 — Fourth Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
    • 2011−2012 — From Novolazarevskaya to Pole of Inaccessibility to South Pole to Hercules inlet by Sebastian Copeland and Eric McNair Landry by kites and skis.[18]
    • 2011−2012 — British Services Antarctic Expedition 2012[19]
    • 2011-2012 – Expedition by Ramon Hernando de Larramendi, by Inuit WindSled.[20]
    • 2012 — Felicity Aston becomes the first person to ski alone across Antarctica using only personal muscle power, as well as the first woman to cross Antarctica alone.[21][22] Her journey began on 25 November 2011, at the Leverett Glacier, and continued for 59 days and a distance of 1,084 miles (1,744 kilometers).[23]
    • 2012 — Fifth Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
    • 2012−2013 — Aaron Linsdau becomes the second American to ski solo from the Hercules Inlet to the South Pole. His original plan was to make a round trip but through a series of problems, like all other expeditions this year, was unable to make the return journey.[24]
    • 2012 — Eric Larsen attempts a bicycle ride from coast to South Pole. Completes a quarter of the distance.
    • 2012 — Grant Korgan becomes the first person with a spinal cord injury to literally “push” himself to the geographic South Pole![25][26][27][28][29]
    • 2012−2013 — Shackleton’s centenary re-enactment expedition of the journey of the James Caird aboard the replica Alexandra Shackleton. Six British and Australian Explorers completed the “double journey” on 10 February 2013 after the 800-mile journey from Elephant Island to South Georgia and the mountain crossing.[30]
    • 2013 — Sixth Venezuelan Scientific Expedition to Antarctica.
    • 2013–2014 — Ben Saunders and Tarka L’Herpiniere make the first ever completion of the Terra Nova Expedition first taken by Robert Falcon Scott in January 1912. Their 1,801-mile, 105-day return journey to the South Pole is the longest ever polar journey on foot.[31]
    • 2013 — Parker Liautaud and Douglas Stoup attempt in December 2013 the Willis Resilience Expedition [32] to set a “coast to Pole” speed record [33] by reaching the geographical South Pole on skis in the fastest miles per hour ever recorded from an interior of continent start while being followed by a support vehicle.
    • 2013 — Antony Jinman will walk to the South Pole solo for the 2013 ETE Teachers South Pole Mission, during which he will be in daily contact with schoolchildren from across the United Kingdom and will make films using the world’s first drone flights at the South Pole.
    • 2013 — Maria Leijerstam completes the first tricycle ride from coast to South Pole.
    • 2013−14 — Lewis Clarke (aged 16 years and 61 days) guided by Carl Alvey (aged 30) became the youngest person to trek from the Antarctic coast at Hercules Inlet to the South Pole. His expedition was in support of the Prince’s Trust and his achievement is recognised by Guinness World Records.
    • 2013−14 — Daniel P. Burton completes the first bicycle ride from coast to the South Pole.
    • 2013−14 — Chris Turney led an expedition, entitled “Spirit of Mawson“, aimed at highlighting the decline in sea ice due to climate change. The expedition was abandoned when its Russian ship became stuck in unusually large amounts of sea ice.
    • 2013 — In December 2013 the Expeditions 7 Team led by Scott Brady made a successful east-to-west crossing in four-wheel drive vehicles from Novolazarevskaya to the Ross Ice Shelf via the Scott-Amundsen South Pole Station. Expeditions 7’s logistic plan included providing assistance to the Walking With The Wounded expedition, which was required at latitude 88°S. From the Ross Ice Shelf the Expeditions 7 team returned to Novolazarevskaya via the same route.
    • 2015−16 — Henry Worsley died while attempting to complete the first solo and unaided crossing of the Antarctic.[34]
    • 2016−17 — Spear17, a six-man team from the British Army Reserves successfully completed a full traverse of Antarctica. They set off on 16 November from Hercules Inlet, arrived at the South Pole on Christmas Day, and completed a full traverse reaching Ross Ice Shelf on 20 January 2017. The aim of the expedition was to raise the profile of the army reservists, and to honour the memory of fellow explorer Henry Worsley. The team was led by Lou Rudd [35]
    • 2016−17 — February 7 Mike Horn completes first ever solo, unsupported north-to-south traverse of Antarctica from the Princess Astrid Coast (lat -70.1015 lon 9.8249) to the Dumont D’urville Station (lat -66.6833 lon 139.9167) via the South Pole. He arrived at the pole on February 7, 2017. A total distance of 5100 km was covered utilizing kites and skis in 57 days.

     

    #829363
     t8 
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    The Solar Eclipse does not prove a Flat Earth

    Argument made by Flat Earthers

    The first argument is if the Earth is rotating from west to east, the shadow should pass across Earth’s surface from East to West, just as the sun moves across the sky. At face value, this would seem odd to many people. Here’s a video of a flat Earther explaining why he thinks this proves the Earth is flat.

    However, it’s important to understand the speed at which the Earth and moon travel. According to NASA, the moon travels to the east as it orbits Earth at approximately 3,400 km per hour. This is compared to the Earth rotating to the east at 1,670 km per hour at the equator. This would mean the moon’s shadow will move from west to east at 1,730 km per hour at the equator.

    As an analogy, imagine car B passing car A on the highway. Car A typically finds objects first pass by the car from the front hood and travel toward the back bumper. However, in the case of car B which is passing car A, car B would travel from the back bumper to the front hood.

    Source:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/08/22/flat-earthers-declare-solar-eclipse-just-proved-earth-flat/

    #829364
     t8 
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    The shadow of the moon

    Argument made by Flat Earthers

    The shadow the moon casts on the Earth has to be bigger than the moon itself. A few flat Earthers tested their hypothesis by turning on a flash light and shining it at a quarter against the wall. They found that if they moved the quarter closer or farther from the wall the shadow was always bigger than the quarter itself.

    The image below is a comparison of what the flat Earthers were expecting to see, a massive shadow significantly larger than the moon itself.

    However, there is one key issue with these experiments. The Sun projects light in all directions and is many many times larger than the moon. Hence, the experiment would be better served not by a point source of light such as a candle or flashlight, but with a large area of diffuse of light and one that is significantly far from the quarter and wall.

    Here you can see an accurate demonstration of how the Sun casts the moon’s shadow on Earth. Unfortunately for flat Earthers, this wasn’t their big breakthrough in discrediting NASA, the media, and the rest of the world that the Earth is flat. However, the group has never been keen on facts or evidence and maintains a significant distrust of the rest of the world. Maybe the next solar eclipse on April 8, 2024, will be their coup de grâce on this whole round Earth nonsense.

    Source: Trevor Nace is a PhD geologist, founder of Science Trends, Forbes contributor, and explorer. Follow his journey @trevornace.

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    #829367
     Anthony 
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    Hi Lighten up .Good job. Thank you

    so-called “solid firmament” is not solid. Read on:

    Mike said

    Anthony said: Depending on the context, the word can refer to that which is immediately above us, where flying birds, clouds, and rain are.

    Mike responded: Yes, that is the first heaven – which is never referred to by raqia, since it is not solid.

    you can no longer say that the firmament (raqia) is solid, therefore, no dome. Let’s celebrate! Thank you Jesus for making the raqia!! God bless lghtenup In Him Anthony

     

    #829371
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anthony….your kicking a dead horse, MIKE will not admit he is wrong, he is not truly looking for truth, because he believes he already has it. So letting go of his false asumptions is hard for him, even when it comes to scriptures he holds onto those false teachings of his, as do some others here.

    if you really want to be enlightened with something that counts, go to JODI”S posts in truth or tridition, you will be greately edified, at how accurate she is and the length she went to to prove her points. Her knowledge of scriptures i have found unsurpassed here.

    T8 go and read and think about it also. Lets not forget to pray for one another aways.” The prayers of a rightious man avails much.

    Peace and love to you all and yours. …….gene

    #829375
     NickHassan 
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    Hi LU and Anthony,

    Since there is no solid dome and birds fly and stars are seen in the firmament Mike can no longer ascribe any scriptural basis for his odd theories about earth. They have to stand alone reliant on his own personal observations and interpretations.

     

    #829386
     Lightenup 
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    Thanks Anthony and t8, I hope that helps Mike and Dig4truth.

    #829390
     mikeboll64 
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    Kathi…  Anthony said: Depending on the context, the word can refer to that which is immediately above us, where flying birds, clouds, and rain are

    Mike responded: 

     Yes, that is the first heaven – which is never referred to by raqia, since it is not solid.

    Genesis 1:20

    Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”

    That word for “expanse” is definitely raqia…the birds fly in the raqia. That should end this thread, Mike. Your solid heaven has just been debunked.

    Now we can move on. Mike you can no longer say that the firmament (raqia) is solid, therefore, no dome. Let’s celebrate! Thank you Jesus for making the raqia!!

     

    T8: Nice work.

     

    Anthony:  Hi Lighten up .Good job. Thank you

    so-called “solid firmament” is not solid.

     

    Gene:  Anthony….your kicking a dead horse, MIKE will not admit he is wrong, he is not truly looking for truth, because he believes he already has it. So letting go of his false asumptions is hard for him…

     

    Nick: Hi LU and Anthony,

    Since there is no solid dome and birds fly and stars are seen in the firmament Mike can no longer ascribe any scriptural basis for his odd theories about earth. They have to stand alone reliant on his own personal observations and interpretations.

     

    It took me 3 minutes to find these commentaries on biblehub.com…

    Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
    This rendering scarcely reproduces the sense of the Hebrew words, which literally mean “in the face of,” or “over against, the firmament of heaven.” The idea is that winged things are to fly “above” the earth, and “in front of” the vault of heaven. The R.V. margin, on the face of the expanse of the heaven, is cumbrous and obscure. The meaning seems to be that the flight of winged things shall be in mid air, “in front,” as it were, of the solid “firmament of heaven,” which was not remote. The winged creatures would continually be visible against the sky.

    Ellicott’s Commentary for English Readers

    In the open firmament…Literally, upon the face of the expanse of heaven>—that is, in front of it, upon the lower surface of the atmosphere near to the earth.

    Barnes’ Notes on the Bible
    The face of the expanse…”   The expanse is here proved to be aerial or spatial; not solid, as the fowl can fly on it.

    Pulpit Commentary
    Above the earth in the open firmament of heaven… Not above the firmament like the clouds (Von Bohlen, Baumgarten), but in the concave vault (Tuch, Delitzsch), or before the surface of the expanse (Kalisch).

    Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament
    The Fifth Day. – “God said: Let the waters swarm with swarms, with living beings, and let birds fly above the earth in the face (the front, i.e., the side turned towards the earth) of the firmament.”

    You’ll see that not all the commentators think the firmament is solid, but all of them realize that the literal Hebrew phrase is “in/against/across/upon the face of the firmament”… with the overall meaning ofin front of the firmament”.  You can also find Bible dictionaries like this one…

    Easton’s Bible Dictionary

    from the Vulgate firmamentum, which is used as the translation of the Hebrew raki’a. This word means simply “expansion.” It denotes the space or expanse like an arch appearing immediately above us. They who rendered raki’a by firmamentum regarded it as a solid body. The language of Scripture is not scientific but popular, and hence we read of the sun rising and setting, and also here the use of this particular word. It is plain that it was used to denote solidity as well as expansion. It formed a division between the waters above and the waters below (Gen 1:7). The raki’a supported the upper reservoir (Psa 148:4). It was the support also of the heavenly bodies (Gen 1:14), and is spoken of as having “windows” and “doors” (Gen 7:11Isa 24:18Mal 3:10) through which the rain and snow might descend.

    There are even a few Bibles that translate it correctly…

    Young’s Literal Translation
    And God saith, ‘Let the waters teem with the teeming living creature, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.’

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    And God said, Let the waters bring forth great quantities of creatures with living souls and fowl that may fly above the earth upon the face of the firmament of the heavens.

    The AKJV has it in the marginal notes.  I also read an interesting article today from BioLogos called “The Firmament of Genesis 1 is Solid, But That’s Not the Point”…

    https://biologos.org/blogs/archive/the-firmament-of-genesis-1-is-solid-but-thats-not-the-point

    T8 may remember me mentioning that organization when I was talking to him about theistic evolutionists.  This group is the forerunner in that category, and its members believe in the big bang 13 billion years ago, earth forming by chance 4.5 billion years ago, and random evolution being the cause for all living things except for man – who was created specially by God after the earth had 4 billion years to become ready for man by naturalistic processes.  The group is headed by Hugh Ross, an astrophysicist who I used to listen to in podcast form, until I finally couldn’t take any more of him blatantly twisting God’s written word to make scripture conform to the big bang/deep time/abiogenesis/common descent evolution story told by men of science so-called, who are wise in their own eyes.  Anyway, the point is that these guys are zealous proponents of heliocentric cosmogony and cosmology, and as far from a solid dome/stationary earth model as anyone can be.  But even these folks understand the meaning of raqia.  Here are a few snippets from the article…

    Biblical scholars understand the raqia to be a solid dome-like structure. It separates the water into two parts, so that there is water above the raqia and water below it (v. 7)…  Ancient Israelites and others in that part of the world assumed the world was flat…  

    Biblical scholars agree on this understanding of raqia. For some Christians, however, this is troubling. How can the Bible, which is the inspired, revealed word of God, contain such an inaccurate piece of ancient nonsense? Hence, some invest a lot of time and energy to show that the raqia is not solid but more like the atmosphere. Often, the word “expanse” is the preferred translation because it does not necessarily imply something solid.

    Arguing for a non-solid raqia in Genesis is extremely problematic, for two reasons. First, the biblical and extrabiblical data indicate that raqia means a solid structure of some sort…

    Let me summarize some of the general arguments for why raqia is understood by contemporary biblical scholars as a solid structure…

    1. The other cosmologies from the ancient world depict some solid structure in the sky. The most natural explanation of the raqia is that it also reflects this understanding. There is no indication that Genesis is a novel description of the sky;
    2. Virtually every description of raqia from antiquity to the Renaissance depicts it as solid. The non-solid interpretation of raqia is a novelty;
    3. According to the flood story in Gen 7:11 and 8:2, the waters above were held back only to be released through the “floodgates of the heavens” (literally, “lattice windows”);
    4. Other Old Testament passages are consistent with the raqia being solid (Ezekiel1:22; Job 37:18; Psalm 148:4);
    5. According to Gen 1:20, the birds fly in front of the raqia (in the air), not in the raqia;
    6. The noun raqia is derived form the verb that means to beat out or stamp out, as in hammering metal into thin plates (Exodus 39:3). This suggests that the noun form is likewise related to something solid…

    The solid nature of the raqia is well established. It is not the result of an anti-Christian conspiracy to find errors in the Bible, but the “solid” result of scholars doing their job…

    The meaning of raqia is likewise a description not only of what the Israelites saw but also of what they actually believed to be true. They were in good company, for their understanding of what was “up there” was in harmony with what ancient peoples believed in general. God spoke to the ancient Israelites in a way they would readily understand.

    The arguments for a non-solid raqia can only gain traction by swimming against the strong current of what we know of the ancient world. But the problem is not just the arguments themselves. Rather, it is the very fact that the arguments are made in the first place

    #829391
     mikeboll64 
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    Kathi:  Thanks Anthony and t8, I hope that helps Mike and Dig4truth.

    Mike and Dig4truth hope that my post helps you guys.  The raqia is solid.

    #829392
     mikeboll64 
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    T8, do you know how frustrating it is to spend a bunch of time on a post, only for it to display like this…

     

    I had to go back and manually remove every “span” the all the other crap.  It’s done that a few times on me.  Is it something I’m doing wrong?

     

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