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T8, DeGrasse Tyson, Wikipedia, and every serious Bible scholar in the world – Christian or secular – knows that the Bible is a flat earth book that teaches of a firmament in which are the sun, moon and stars.
That’s bull. It teaches a firmament but it doesn’t negate that it surrounds a globe. It never says the Earth is flat like you do. As you know, there is an atmosphere around the earth that contains moisture which is water.
What happened was men thought the earth was flat and so people read the Bible with the frame of reference they had. When it was discovered to be a globe, that in no way changed anything in the Bible. You just read it as it is and imagine the globe instead of a pizza. Nothing is changed as far as scripture goes and Christians never gave up their faith because the world turned out to be a globe. There was no need to do that because the Bible never stated that the Earth was flat.
But FE like other foolish sects lay a stumbling block that real men trip over. Woe to such people who care more for conspiracy theories than they do men’s souls and the truth.
I await your answer to my previous post. No fancy philosophical reasoning please. Just the SCRIPTURAL answer – and whether or not that is also YOUR answer.
T8, did God stop the movement of the sun and the moon… or the earth?
If it is stated and translated correctly then yes.
Did he put his hand on the sun and physically stop it?
I doubt that. There is a way to make the sun stand still besides resorting to that.
If I edit my post, does that mean I rubbed out the text and wrote it with my own hand?
If I edit a game I built does that mean that I am made of pixels and changed those pixels? Or could it be that I am a programmer and made a change to the code? The latter and people who do not have my access wouldn’t understand that. You put God down to your level and expect him to behave like you?
His ways are not your ways Mike. He created all things in a way that is beyond us. He spoke it into existence so of course he can command anything in creation to obey his word. You argue as if God built the universe with a tool kit and then unplugged the sun so that it stood still.
Being primitive and lacking in understanding of the knowledge revealed in the last days is never going to win over people like NDT and skeptics like him to the Kingdom.
Wise men win souls. What should we say of those who turn men away due to foolishness?
Mike,
Will a literal double edged sword proceed from the mouth of Christ upon his return?
I await your answer. No fancy philosophical reasoning please.
Yes or no.
What does “yes” mean? I’m asking which one the SCRIPTURES say. God stopped the movement of the sun and moon, or the movement of the earth. Which one, please?
Will locusts with heads with crowns like gold, and faces like men, with hair of women, teeth of lions, with breastplates of iron; and that sound like many chariots appear in the last days?
Yes No.
As you can see, the answer is yes. But we need to look at the picture and try and see what it actually is.
Likewise when the sun stopped, is that from the perspective of men?
Yes it is. If it wasn’t, then it wouldn’t have stopped as far as they were concerned.
Be wise. Look at the words and understand that there is more than one way that you can see an effect like that.
Do I know exactly what effect took place to give this appearance?
No.
What is the SCRIPTURAL answer to the question I asked. And is that also YOUR answer? Please don’t say “yes” again, because I didn’t ask a yes or no question. Please answer the questions I DID ask.
So you can say “sun and moon”. Or you can say “earth”. And THEN you can answer the other part (Is that also YOUR answer?) with a yes or no. Thanks.
Don’t know Mike and neither do you.
Stopping or prolonging the sun’s light can be done by:
- literally stopping the sun;
- changing the earth so that the sun appeared to not move;
- a polar flip so that the sun set becomes the sun rise;
- a vision of the sun that gave light to the minds of men;
- a hack into the timeline so that God allowed the day to progress, then wound back the timeline and placed them some hours back while still retaining the memory of the previous time.
As you can see, some of these are ludicrous, but I am purely using my imagination and notice that your imagined version is one in that list. But let me google some ideas and theories that people have given time to think about:
- His command in the Hebrew language was not “Sun, stand thou still,” but “Sun, cease acting, or “Sun, stop working.” It was then that the gravitational pull of the sun affected the earth. It was then the earth began to slow down and the day was lengthened…
- There are many questions that this account brings up. How are we to understand the phrase, “the sun stood still?” What was the nature of Joshuas command? Did he want more sunlight or less sunlight? Did he need more time to win the battle or did he need relief from the heat of the sun?
- The word translated stand still (Heb dom) means literally to be silent and frequently has the sense cease or leave off. The fact that Joshua asked the sun to stop is not the issue. The question is, “In what sense did the sun stop?”
- The passage is poetical and not to be understood literally.
- The sun “standing still” refers to an eclipse of the sun.
- The sun and moon appeared to be out of their regular place by a given scientific mirage.
- The sun stopped shining during the latter half of the day.
- Prolonged the darkness from the previous night. Joshua needed even more darkness, since, as is expressly stated in v.9, he came upon the camp of the enemy by night, so let the darkness continue and the night be prolonged for a surprise attack. ? That it was early morning when he made his request is evident from the position of the moon in the valley of Aijalon (to the west) and the position of the sun over Gibeon (to the east) (v.12). The answer came in a hailstorm which had the effect of prolonging the darkness.
Mike, there are heaps of things that could explain what happened. Neither of us know exactly what it was.
Okay, I’ll accept “sun, cease acting” as your official answer. Now… did King David say the sun runs a circuit from one end of the heavens to the other?
This one’s a yes or no. 😉
My point is that David clearly says the sun runs a circuit around the heavens. Joshua clearly commanded the sun to “cease activity”. So, from a strictly Biblical understanding, the sun moves, not the earth. Then add to that the scriptural teachings that the earth is fixed on pillars, has a foundation, and cannot be moved. Then add that the sun, moon and stars are all in a firmament that separates the waters above from the waters below, and that God opened windows in that firmament to let the waters above help flood the earth in Noah’s day, and it’s abundantly clear that the scriptural description of the world is completely irreconcilable with the heliocentric model.
Now, you can remain one of those self-professed Christians who hold the completely unsubstantiated fantasies of scientism above clear scriptural teachings if you want… but don’t you think it’s a little harsh to come down so hard on me and D4T for holding the scriptures above the fantasies of godless men?
Mike, get with the program.
If I say the sun sets, is that the sun going down or is it the earth spinning, or is it refraction.
From my perspective the sun goes down. From a greater perspective, the earth rotates away from the face of the sun. Which is true? Both. There is more than one perspective, but I use the terminology that the sun goes down and people know what I mean. The Bible is clearly written for man and through men who use human languages full of expressions and idioms.
There is enough content in the above paragraphs for you to answer you own question if you are wise that is. Just remember to use the word ‘perspective’. It is a valid word that explains much in the Bible. Don’t be stubborn. Think about it. Let’s reason together.
The Heavens Declare the Glory of God
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
T8, it’s clear that you trust in man’s opinion rather than the Creator’s Words. We see that and you have a little problem admitting it. The fact that you can’t bring yourself to answer Mike’s questions directly makes this very clear. Like I said, get off the fence. Just admit that what the Bible says is not true because you now know better because of what the godless men have taught you.
When Yeshua returns He will have a two edged sword coming out of His mouth, it’s called the word of God. You should really believe it! But if you wish to keep using this straw man to support your anti-biblical stance then at least admit that this text is a vision that John had while on the island of Patmos. You can read it for yourself but notice the language:
like white wool, like a flame of fire, like burnished bronze, like the sound of many waters, etc.
I expect this type of argument from unbelievers because they have no knowledge of the Bible and no Holy Spirit to give them wisdom but you should know better.
The guy in the video said that the Sombrero galaxy is 28,000,000 light years away. And the Whirlpool galaxy is 31,000,000 light years away! Hmm, that a pretty good tape measure he has!
So, do you believe that the stars will fall to earth t8?
I asked you to answer from scripture, and you are forced to insert your philosophical reasoning back into the scriptures as a way to CORRECT what the words actually say… just like NDT said you would. He also said that if all you knew about the world came only from the Bible, you wouldn’t do what you’re doing now. Are you honest enough with yourself to admit he is correct about that too?
See, that’s the thing, T8. If you had never been taught that we lived on a spinning water ball, you’d admit that the Bible is a flat earth book from start to finish. It is only your desire to marry the Bible and the heliocentric model that forces you to go back after the fact and correct the scriptures.
What does it mean to you that God opened the windows of the firmament to flood the earth?
Mike, I’m not even sure what you are asking. I’ve explained it in such a way that you will know my answer to your questions.
Then add to that the scriptural teachings that the earth is fixed on pillars, has a foundation, and cannot be moved.
It also hangs on nothing. And yes it cannot be moved. Jump up and down in a small boat and it rocks. Jump up and down on the Earth and it doesn’t move.
A bit of wisdom all that is needed.
See that Dig. When reading about that a double edged sword, you have enough sense to see that it is talking about the Word of God and not an actual metal sword. Now apply this common sense to other verses like the sun going down or the stars falling from Heaven and know that it is not always a literal thing but can be metaphoric or something from our perspective.
The stars falling could have everything to do with the earth swaying like a drunkard. It doesn’t mean that literal lights will drop to the ground like the opening scene of the Truman Show. It could also be a meteor shower or any number of things.
A bit of wisdom is all that is needed.
It’s real simple. If an object is not moving, it is not moving from your perspective. On a train, the landscape is moving backwards. Looking at the train and you see it move forward. Whether you are in the train or looking at the train, both can throw a ball in the air and catch it despite the speed.
Simple.
So from either perspective, you will describe what you see differently despite both perspectives being the truth.
This should answer most of your questions. Think for yourself by applying this truth before asking basic questions.
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