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Mike….still wating for an answer to those clear and simple scriptures i posted brother.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Gene and Kathi, I will address one scripture from each of you, and then ask you to address my scripture.
Kathi: Is 43:10…
NET Bible
You are my witnesses,” says the LORD, “my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may consider and believe in me, and understand that I am he. No god was formed before me, and none will outlive me.”And if you re-read the text, that’s all Jehovah is really saying there… that He was the first God, and none of the other gods will outlast Him. In other words, it’s not like He’s going to die someday, and some other god is going to go on existing past His demise. There will indeed always be other gods, and Jehovah will continue to be the Most High God of all the other ones.
Gene: John 17:3…
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Hebrews 1…
8But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
Here Jesus is called a god, and distinguished from his own God, the Father. According to your understanding, this makes your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ a “false god” or a “man-made god”. Do you believe that? If not, how do you explain Jesus being called “god” by the Father in light of your understanding that the Father is literally the only true God?
Okay, my turn. I’m going with this one first because Kathi mentioned it in passing, but it is only the first of many to come…
Genesis 32…
24So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
29Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.
30So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
Hosea 12…
2The Lord has a charge to bring against Judah;
he will punish Jacob according to his ways
and repay him according to his deeds.
3In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel;
as a man he struggled with God.
4He struggled with the angel and overcame him;
he wept and begged for his favor.
He found him at Bethel
and talked with him there—
5the Lord God Almighty,
the Lord is his name!
Who is the one with whom Jacob struggled… the one who is called “a man”, “God”, “the angel”, and “Jehovah God Almighty”?
Kathi, is “the Word of God” both God Almighty and an angel?
Gene, is this angel who is also called a god – who not only blessed Jacob, but changed his name to Israel – a “false god”?
Mike,
Jehovah, God Almighty is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, both the Father and the Son. When the Almighty God is seen by men, it is the Son, our Lord of lords (Jehovah our Righteousness.) No man has seen the Father.
Genesis 35:5As they journeyed, there was a great terror upon the cities which were around them, and they did not pursue the sons of Jacob. 6So Jacob came to Luz (that is, Bethel), which is in the land of Canaan, he and all the people who were with him. 7He built an altar there, and called the place El-bethel, because there God had revealed Himself to him when he fled from his brother. 8Now Deborah, Rebekah’s nurse, died, and she was buried below Bethel under the oak; it was named Allon-bacuth.
Jacob Is Named Israel
9Then God appeared to Jacob again when he came from Paddan-aram, and He blessed him.
10God said to him,
“Your name is Jacob;
You shall no longer be called Jacob,
But Israel shall be your name.”
Thus He called him Israel.11God also said to him,
“I am God Almighty;
Be fruitful and multiply;
A nation and a company of nations shall come from you,
And kings shall come forth from you.12“The land which I gave to Abraham and Isaac,
I will give it to you,
And I will give the land to your descendants after you.”13Then God went up from him in the place where He had spoken with him. 14Jacob set up a pillar in the place where He had spoken with him, a pillar of stone, and he poured out a drink offering on it; he also poured oil on it. 15So Jacob named the place where God had spoken with him, Bethel.
Mike,
I believe you violate these verses when you say there are other gods “by design”:
Deuteronomy 4:35
“To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him.Deuteronomy 32:39
‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.Isaiah 44:8
Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.'”Isaiah 45:5
“I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me;So, if there are other gods but none by Jehovah’s design, then they are there due to various other reasons. Please stop with this completely unsupported claim of yours that Jehovah designed other gods.
Hi Nick,
you said:
When Jesus Christ walked in Israel the Jews cried out that God has visited his people.
They were right because God was in him reconciling the world to Himself.
Yes, you can see that the God of gods is never separate from the Lord of lords, Nick. The God of gods, the Father, was in the Messiah who is Jehovah the Lord of lords. Jehovah the Lord of lords can also be said to be in His Father. As I have said, the only true God is the Father who is God together with the Son and Spirit…never separated. Your verse shows that the Father and Son are together. Jesus wasn’t a lone ranger so to speak. The Father hasn’t been a lone ranger either. He always had His Son to be God with.
John 14:11 “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.
Hi LU,
The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son-since the anointing at the Jordan.
And we can fellowship with the Father and the Son in the One Spirit too.
Hi Mike,
The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.
Rom 8
Angelic sons too.
In the vessel of Jesus God has visited His people.
If Jacob wrestled with an angelic son Jacob could be said to have wrestled with God.
Why do you give so much importance and glory to what is created when the glory belongs to our Creator God?
Mike….do a search for me, go look up the actual meaning of the words LORD (adonia ) and the word (adoni) you will see the word (adoni) means a person of athority, like a human being like a judge, king, ruler, mayor, govener, While the word (adonia) means the Almighty GOD.
And remember God said he was not a man, that he sould lie, nor a son of man, that he should repent. That means there is no God except ONE, AND ONLY ONE.
As far as the other scripture where God the Father says to the Son, thy kingdom (O) GOD IS A EVERLASTING KINGDOM, hear is some food for thought.
In revelations it say concerning the slain (dead) lamb, he has the “seven” spirits of God and the seven horns (powers of God) , can you see it is GOD THAT IS ESTABLISHING THE KINGDOM OF HIMSELF “IN” THE LAMB? REMEMBER ALSO THIS, “he LORD (adonia ) ALMIGHTY GOD, said unto my lord (adoni) human ruler, sit on my side untill I (ALMIGHTY GOD) make your enemies your foot stool. Can you see it is ALMIGHTY GOD “IN” the man Jesus doing the work of establishing his own KINGDOM “in” the dead lamb Jesus? Why a slain lamb, because it is the seven spirits with the seven powers of God , doing all the work of establishing his kingdom on the earth, not the “man” Jesus.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Hi LU,
Neither “lord of lords” nor “king of kings “are necessarily exclusive terms.
Jesus Christ is one with the Father in the Spirit. And so are the brothers of Jesus. None of them have become God.
The Lord Jesus becoming King of the earth is to allow the Father in him to rule the earth.
It is not about gods and men but all about the work of the Spirit of the One God.
Ths work is all done in and through created and sanctified vessels.
Give glory to the Father.
Hi,
Distractions, distractions, distractions.
Stop thinking and chasing phantoms and going down rabbit holes.
Know that the whole bible is the narrative of the works of the amazing and complex one Spirit of God.
While I’m waiting for Kathi to tell me if “Jehovah the Son” is an angel (Hosea 12:4) and Gene to tell me if his Lord Jesus is a false god since Jehovah called him “O God” (Hebrews 1:8), I’ll post another scripture that proves my point.
Genesis 3
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…
Who are the “gods” that know good and evil… the ones Jehovah identifies as “one of US“?
Mike,
Jehovah the Lord of lords, i.e., the Only begotten Son is NOT an angel in type. He took part in creating the angels. Col 1. If it weren’t for Him, there would be no angels. He and the Father are the “us”.
Hi LU,
God is Spirit.
Tell us of the son of God.
I mean we know that NOW the Lord is the Spirit from 2 Cor 3.17
Do you think the Jesus has always been spirit?
Mike…The word “as” has nothing to do with saying they “are” Gods, “it’s enough the servant is as his master”, does not make the servant a master now does it? The word GOD is not a persons name, it is a descriptor, describing a relationship with a person.,like when we say “the LORD (adonia) “OUR” GOD. LORD (adonia) is the person YEHWEH , and GOD IS WHAT HE IS TO US, HE IS OUR GOD.
GOD IN THE EARLEST PICTORIAL LANGUAGE OF THE ANCIENT HEBREW’S, GOD WAS DEPICTED AS THE HEAD OF AN OX WITH A SHEPARDS STAFF LEANING TOWARD IT. THE OX HEAD, WAS REPRESENTIVE OF “POWER”,LIKE OX WHICH WAS THE POWER THEY USED TO PLOW THE EARTH WITH, THE LEANING STAFF, REPRESENTED WHAT THEY TRUSTED AND LEANED ON FOR SUPPORT AND GUIDENCE. This is where the word GOD came from in our texts. THE WORD DESCRIBED WHAT THE PERSON “YEHWEH” WAS TO THEM. He was the “ONE” (POWER), THEY (TRUSTED) AND “LEANED ON FOR THEIR SUPPORT”. That the way i understand it Mike.
Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
Nick,
Ephesians 4:4 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
This is what I believe.
One body = the true church
One Spirit = the Holy Spirit
One Lord = Jesus
One baptism = the baptism that is in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
One God = the Father
Jehovah is God of gods (Father) and Lord of lords (Jesus) united in Spirit (Holy Spirit).
The Son has always been in the Father and the Father has always been in the Son. They are spirit beings as opposed to flesh beings by nature. The Son took on flesh but the spirit within the flesh has existed eternally…first within the Father and secondly begotten from the Father before creation and thirdly born of a virgin in the flesh and fourthly, in glorified flesh He remains.
I hope that answers your questions.
Nick,
you said:
Neither “lord of lords” nor “king of kings “are necessarily exclusive terms.
Well, put it to the test..Jesus is the everlasting Lord and the everlasting King, His kingdom is not of this world, He is the Lord of the Sabboth, He is the Lord of all, He and the Father receive the same glory and honor and praise.
Ask a devout Jew who the Lord of lords is, the Redeemer of Israel, the Savior, the Great Shepherd, the First and the Last, etc. See what they say. I’ll bet they say that He is Jehovah. The NT attributes these things to the Son.
Hi LU,
Does God call Himself a BEING or is that from theology?
Yes the SPIRIT OF THE SON (gal4.6) is from eternity.
One baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ.
With God forever in the one Spirit.
The Spirit is ONE and not two.
Hi LU,
The anointed Jesus was given the kingdom after his resurrection as shown in Dan 7.
So his kingdom was not from everlasting except in prophecy.
After his millennial reign he hands the kingdom back to the Father. 1Cor 15.28.
So his kingdom is not everlasting in the future either.
He is the SON of God, not GOD.
The faithful servant of God.
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