Firstborn of/over all creation

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ June 10 2014,17:43)

N All men are born in sin , it does not matter if you believe it or not , that is what it is,

So, you wrote the bible?

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2014,19:27)

Quote (terraricca @ June 10 2014,17:43) N All men are born in sin , it does not matter if you believe it or not , that is what it is, So, you wrote the bible?

Marty

put it this way ; if you can show any scripture that says otherwise ,why are you not show it ,so that I may be kept silence ,

but if you cannot show that men are born without sin and so pure ,

why then are you belittle me for your dismay or ignorance

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
All have sinned.
Sin conceives from following lusts.
Jesus taught that sin does not enter us but comes from within.

But you think some are conceived clean?
Jb 25

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2014,20:23)

Hi 94, All have sinned. Sin conceives from following lusts. Jesus taught that sin does not enter us but comes from within.  But you think some are conceived clean? Jb 25

And so, if it comes from within, how did it get there.  He was speaking relative to the Pharisees who ate with unwashed hands and thought that this defiled them spiritually, but he said not, because this enters into the belly and goes out into the sewer, and that does not defile someone spirtually, but what comes out of the heart in evil thoughts, and then evil actions is what defiles one spiritually, it is sin.

And so, does some one have to think in order to have an evil thought, and how does an action, come out of the heart unless one is tempted by an evil thought, and then obeys it.

Nick, how does all of this get into the heart in order for it to come out of the heart.

Quote

Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

He said that the imagination's of a man's heart were evil from his youth, but he had to begin thinking these things.  They weren't there as an infant.   Were they?  What does and infant know?  He has to be taught, and learn by exploring his environment.

Isaiah 53, states that we all went astray.  If we went astray, we had to astray at some point.  We were not already astray.

Quote

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

And the scriptures state that “sin is the transgression of the Law”.  And so, we have to understand what Jesus stated in the context of these scriptures.  Scripture must be line upon line and precept upon precept.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,19:54)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2014,20:23) Hi 94, All have sinned. Sin conceives from following lusts. Jesus taught that sin does not enter us but comes from within.  But you think some are conceived clean? Jb 25 And so, if it comes from within, how did it get there.  He was speaking relative to the Pharisees who ate with unwashed hands and thought that this defiled them spiritually, but he said not, because this enters into the belly and goes out into the sewer, and that does not defile someone spirtually, but what comes out of the heart in evil thoughts, and then evil actions is what defiles one spiritually, it is sin. And so, does some one have to think in order to have an evil thought, and how does an action, come out of the heart unless one is tempted by an evil thought, and then obeys it. Nick, how does all of this get into the heart in order for it to come out of the heart. Quote Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. He said that the imagination's of a man's heart were evil from his youth, but he had to begin thinking these things.  They weren't there as an infant.   Were they?  What does and infant know?  He has to be taught, and learn by exploring his environment. Isaiah 53, states that we all went astray.  If we went astray, we had to astray at some point.  We were not already astray. Quote Isa 53:6 and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. And the scriptures state that “sin is the transgression of the Law”.  And so, we have to understand what Jesus stated in the context of these scriptures.  Scripture must be line upon line and precept upon precept. Love in Christ, Marty

MARTY

Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2014,01:13)

Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,19:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2014,20:23) Hi 94, All have sinned. Sin conceives from following lusts. Jesus taught that sin does not enter us but comes from within.  But you think some are conceived clean? Jb 25 And so, if it comes from within, how did it get there.  He was speaking relative to the Pharisees who ate with unwashed hands and thought that this defiled them spiritually, but he said not, because this enters into the belly and goes out into the sewer, and that does not defile someone spirtually, but what comes out of the heart in evil thoughts, and then evil actions is what defiles one spiritually, it is sin. And so, does some one have to think in order to have an evil thought, and how does an action, come out of the heart unless one is tempted by an evil thought, and then obeys it. Nick, how does all of this get into the heart in order for it to come out of the heart. Quote Gen 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. He said that the imagination's of a man's heart were evil from his youth, but he had to begin thinking these things.  They weren't there as an infant.   Were they?  What does and infant know?  He has to be taught, and learn by exploring his environment. Isaiah 53, states that we all went astray.  If we went astray, we had to astray at some point.  We were not already astray. Quote Isa 53:6 and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. And the scriptures state that “sin is the transgression of the Law”.  And so, we have to understand what Jesus stated in the context of these scriptures.  Scripture must be line upon line and precept upon precept. Love in Christ, Marty MARTY Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

That scripture does not say that he had sinned at his birth. He may have had an inclination to sin after he got off of his mother's milk. You can't just take that scripture and ignore the others that I have posted.

I know that this is the scripture that the church bases their doctrine of original sin, but this doctrine comes from the Catholic church which then tries to justify the doctrine by saying that the virgin Mary was sinless because they know that Jesus was not born in sin. The scriptures also state that Jesus was tempted every way that we are but he did not sin.

And the scriptures state that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and that include the mother of our Lord, and so, genes do not defile someone, what defiles anyone is a spiritual matter, and that spiritual matter is called sin. That is what defiles one spiritually.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi Pierre:

And in that psalm David is talking about the adultery that he committed with Bathsheba, and also for having her husband sent to the front lines to be killed.

These are violations of God's Law, and then he states here:

Quote

Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

He acknowledges “his transgressions”. Did he have transgressions as and infant? Of course not, no he did not.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,20:53)

Hi Pierre: And in that psalm David is talking about the adultery that he committed with Bathsheba, and also for having her husband sent to the front lines to be killed. These are violations of God's Law, and then he states here: Quote Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. He acknowledges “his transgressions”.   Did he have transgressions as and infant?  Of course not, no he did not. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

what as his adultery to do with his own birth ,???

tell which men or women ever could give to God a son in righteousness,???

free of the curse of Adam sin (that he would not die )

does scriptures not say “ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF GOD'S GLORY ” WOULD THIS MEAN THAT “MARY ” WAS EXEMPTED FROM ADAM CURSE AND SO WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THOSE “ALL”

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2014,02:05)

Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,20:53) Hi Pierre: And in that psalm David is talking about the adultery that he committed with Bathsheba, and also for having her husband sent to the front lines to be killed. These are violations of God's Law, and then he states here: Quote Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. He acknowledges “his transgressions”.   Did he have transgressions as and infant?  Of course not, no he did not. Love in Christ, Marty Marty what as his adultery to do with his own birth ,??? tell which men or women ever could give to God a son in righteousness,??? free of the curse of Adam sin (that he would not die ) does scriptures not say “ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF GOD'S GLORY ” WOULD THIS MEAN THAT “MARY ” WAS EXEMPTED FROM ADAM CURSE AND SO WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THOSE “ALL”

He had to be born into this world to commit the Adultery that he committed, did he not?

And the scriptures state:

Quote

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

death passed upon all me in that all have sinned” This is why we die because we have sinned.

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,21:27)

Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2014,02:05) Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,20:53) Hi Pierre: And in that psalm David is talking about the adultery that he committed with Bathsheba, and also for having her husband sent to the front lines to be killed. These are violations of God's Law, and then he states here: Quote Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. He acknowledges “his transgressions”.   Did he have transgressions as and infant?  Of course not, no he did not. Love in Christ, Marty Marty what as his adultery to do with his own birth ,??? tell which men or women ever could give to God a son in righteousness,??? free of the curse of Adam sin (that he would not die ) does scriptures not say “ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF GOD'S GLORY ” WOULD THIS MEAN THAT “MARY ” WAS EXEMPTED FROM ADAM CURSE AND SO WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THOSE “ALL” He had to be born into this world to commit the Adultery that he committed, did he not? And the scriptures state: Quote Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: death passed upon all me in that all have sinned”  This is why we die because we have sinned.

Marty

agreed ;AND FOR THAT REASON JESUS THE CHRIST WAS NOT CONCEIVED BY MEN /HUMAN BUT AS TO COME AS HE SAID “FROM HEAVEN ” THIS WAS GOD'S LOVE “TO GIVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO THE SHAME OF ALL MEN FOR THEIR SINS ;

HIM THAT AS NO SINS ,THAT IS BORN FREE OF CONDEMNATION OF THE LAW ,OF THE CURSE OF ADAM WHAT WAS NOT PASSED ON TO HIM ,

SO THAT FREE OF SIN /DID NOT NEED TO DIE /BUT BEAR OUR SINS TO SAVE US ALL WHO BELIEVE ,

HE RETURNED TO HEAVEN AFTER BEING RECEIVING HIS GLORY ,FOR HAVING GLORIFIED HIS FATHER

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2014,03:13)

Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,21:27) Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2014,02:05) Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,20:53) Hi Pierre: And in that psalm David is talking about the adultery that he committed with Bathsheba, and also for having her husband sent to the front lines to be killed. These are violations of God's Law, and then he states here: Quote Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. He acknowledges “his transgressions”.   Did he have transgressions as and infant?  Of course not, no he did not. Love in Christ, Marty Marty what as his adultery to do with his own birth ,??? tell which men or women ever could give to God a son in righteousness,??? free of the curse of Adam sin (that he would not die ) does scriptures not say “ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF GOD'S GLORY ” WOULD THIS MEAN THAT “MARY ” WAS EXEMPTED FROM ADAM CURSE AND SO WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THOSE “ALL” He had to be born into this world to commit the Adultery that he committed, did he not? And the scriptures state: Quote Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: death passed upon all me in that all have sinned”  This is why we die because we have sinned. Marty agreed ;AND FOR THAT REASON JESUS THE CHRIST WAS NOT CONCEIVED BY MEN /HUMAN BUT AS TO COME AS HE SAID “FROM HEAVEN ” THIS WAS GOD'S LOVE “TO GIVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO THE SHAME OF ALL MEN FOR THEIR SINS ; HIM THAT AS NO SINS ,THAT IS BORN FREE OF CONDEMNATION OF THE LAW ,OF THE CURSE OF ADAM WHAT WAS NOT PASSED ON TO HIM , SO THAT FREE OF SIN /DID NOT NEED TO DIE /BUT BEAR OUR SINS TO SAVE US ALL WHO BELIEVE , HE RETURNED TO HEAVEN AFTER BEING RECEIVING HIS GLORY ,FOR HAVING GLORIFIED HIS FATHER

Yes, he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary. He was not born of the sperm of man. He was a man in every way except this, and he could of sinned just like we did, but he did not.

We also were born in innocence as infants, but we sinned, and sin is the transgression of the Law. I do not know a baby who has transgressed God's Law, do you. If so, please let me know.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Jas 1
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

HIS OWN LUST

So infants cannot sin because without understanding they cannot be enticed.

But when it comes to those with understanding who can be spoken to “All have sinned”

Do you agree or not?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Mk7
14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Mark 7:21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

So temptation comes from within and from within proceeds sin

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,23:12)

Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2014,03:13) Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,21:27) Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2014,02:05) Quote (942767 @ June 11 2014,20:53) Hi Pierre: And in that psalm David is talking about the adultery that he committed with Bathsheba, and also for having her husband sent to the front lines to be killed. These are violations of God's Law, and then he states here: Quote Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. He acknowledges “his transgressions”.   Did he have transgressions as and infant?  Of course not, no he did not. Love in Christ, Marty Marty what as his adultery to do with his own birth ,??? tell which men or women ever could give to God a son in righteousness,??? free of the curse of Adam sin (that he would not die ) does scriptures not say “ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF GOD'S GLORY ” WOULD THIS MEAN THAT “MARY ” WAS EXEMPTED FROM ADAM CURSE AND SO WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THOSE “ALL” He had to be born into this world to commit the Adultery that he committed, did he not? And the scriptures state: Quote Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: death passed upon all me in that all have sinned”  This is why we die because we have sinned. Marty agreed ;AND FOR THAT REASON JESUS THE CHRIST WAS NOT CONCEIVED BY MEN /HUMAN BUT AS TO COME AS HE SAID “FROM HEAVEN ” THIS WAS GOD'S LOVE “TO GIVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO THE SHAME OF ALL MEN FOR THEIR SINS ; HIM THAT AS NO SINS ,THAT IS BORN FREE OF CONDEMNATION OF THE LAW ,OF THE CURSE OF ADAM WHAT WAS NOT PASSED ON TO HIM , SO THAT FREE OF SIN /DID NOT NEED TO DIE /BUT BEAR OUR SINS TO SAVE US ALL WHO BELIEVE , HE RETURNED TO HEAVEN AFTER BEING RECEIVING HIS GLORY ,FOR HAVING GLORIFIED HIS FATHER Yes, he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary.  He was not born of the sperm of man.  He was a man in every way except this, and he could of sinned just like we did, but he did not. We also were born in innocence as infants, but we sinned, and sin is the transgression of the Law.  I do not know a baby who has transgressed God's Law, do you.  If so, please let me know. Love in Christ, Marty

marty

Quote

He was a man in every way except this

was he so God is ,is direct father ,and he is a man like any of us hummm

you either raise yourself or lowering the only begotten son of God

this difference is like 99% not the same as us and one percent like us

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Who was the father of Adam?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2014,07:57)

Hi T, Who was the father of Adam?

N

who was the creator of all the animals and all the heavenly beings

are you trying to convince me that man as more importance than the angels and the son himself

long before Adam was even his dust ready THE SON OF GOD WAS WITH GOD AS HIS FIRST CREATION COL;1;15-16

THE SON WAS NOT CREATED THROUGH ANYONE BUT FROM GOD DIRECTLY

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
You mean the Spirit of Christ?

[terraricca]

n

NO NICK NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST IF THIS WAS TRUE THEN GOD ALSO CREATED SIN ,

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Why do you say this?

[Author]

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