Firstborn of/over all creation

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  • #834270
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    The context of Rom 11 is the book of Romans and Romans 9 and 10. Written to the Jewish converts in Rome the book specifies in Romans 9-11 the relationship between God and His chosen people, the Jews.It is deceptive to apply this to all men.

    #834274
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick….Scripture say GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS. HIS WORDS ARE THE SAME FOR ALL. The grace of God abides on all his chosen ones. I believe If God “WILLS” NONE PARISH, then it is certanly possible NONE PARISH. You on the other hand deny the POWER OF GOD and his ability to save. Did not Jesus say, “ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD”?

    Should we trust in you, or GOD and Jesus Christ.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #834275
    Anthony
    Participant

    Hi All

    Ezekiel 36:25-27
    25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 

    Jeremiah 31:31
    Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

    How beautiful and how wonderful God’s reassuring words to Israel are. God’s promise of the New Covenant should bring tremendous rejoicing in the heart of every Jew. The New Covenant is the outworking of the Abrahamic Covenant of faith. God will give a new heart and a new spirit to His people to believe in the Seed of Abraham, Jesus Christ.

    Ezekiel 36:28-30, 35
    28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 

    35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden 

    During the Millennial Kingdom, all of the Jews who survive the coming Great Tribulation and their descendants will live in the full extent of the land of Israel, as promised to Abraham. Israel will be blessed both spiritually and physically, and Israel will in turn bless all the nations of the earth.  God bless

    #834276
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick….Rom 11-12…is talking about the SALVATION of the whole WORLD. Not just the Jews as you falsely assume. All people are GOD’S CREATION and he will save them, if he so choses to. God has concluded us all unders sin, that he might have mercy on all he chosses too.

    Your chosen word “oppertunity”, shows how you believe you are saved, it actually shows a weakness in your trust in the power of GOD and Jesus in your SALVATION PROCESS. IT shows you are “self” reliant, so your ‘faith’ is in yourself, it seems more then GOD. The GRACE of God seems to play very little in your salvation process Nick.

    Please show us the word “oppertunity” written in scriptures relating to anyone salvation. Jew or Gentile.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #834277
    Anthony
    Participant

    Hi  All

    Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.” Galatians 3:7. “For they are not all Israel which are of Israel; neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children… but the children of promise are counted for the seed.” Romans 9:6-8.

    The children of promise are those who put their faith in Jesus. It’s in the Bible: “And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise” Galatians 3:29. Amen.    God bless

    #834279
    Anthony
    Participant

    Hi Nick it’s in the bible, yes Nick All of Israel will be save in God’s plan not only them but All Gentiles will be to.  Israel  and Gentiles . They are fr the seed of Abraham Wich is Jesus Christ. By and through Faith.

    God bless

    #834280
    Anthony
    Participant

    Hi All

    Romans 9  (NKJV)

    Israel’s Rejection of Christ

    I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my [a]countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

    Israel’s Rejection and God’s Purpose

    But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they arenot all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who arethe children of the flesh, these arenot the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. For this isthe word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

    10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

    Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice

    14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

    19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

    22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

    25 As He says also in Hosea:

    “I will call them My people, who were not My people,
    And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
    26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
    ‘You are not My people,’
    There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

    27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

    “Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
    The remnant will be saved.
    28 For [b]He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
    Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”

    29 And as Isaiah said before:

    “Unless the Lord of[c]Sabaoth had left us a seed,
    We would have become like Sodom,
    And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

    Present Condition of Israel

    30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

    “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
    And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” ( looking for the context) where did you say that the context started Nick?                     God bless.

    #834281
    Anthony
    Participant

    Nickdo you believe in any part of the Bible?

    #834283
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Anthony,

    Presumption, Presumption, Presumption.

    Come back to faith.

    #834284
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Anthony,

    Yes all in Christ will be saved.

    We are baptised into Christ.

    Not much for God to ask.

     

    But the philosophers and stoics still love arguing outside of the gate of salvation.

    #834293
    Truthcomber
    Participant

    Hi Eugene,

    I just felt compelled to finish this up. In your response, if any, please stick to the matter at hand—the human body.

    You: TC….spirits have no body. Tell us what your spirit “BODY” looks like if you can.

    Me: I don’t have a spirit body yet.  But it will look like my body now except it will be a reflection of the spirit of God and not my human spirit (soul) which will be no more.  I will be spirit like the angels are spirit.  I will have a body like the angels will, as explained in one of the paragraphs below.

    Psalms 37:6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

    Matt 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    Me: The saints will have bodies like the Messiah.

    Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    Me: The lamb is spirit.  He is an exact copy of his father.  The lamb is spirit.  The lamb’s body is the expressed glory of the holy spirit.

    You: Jodi is right and has proved it and so did Anthony, you seem to be caught up in a form of “mystery religion” like the platoian Greeks who also taught of a person still living after death without a resurection of a actual body.

    Me: You are totally wrong. I will show you who has the “mystery religion”.  First of all, a spirit can exist and live without a body. God’s body is Christ (John 14:9), starting from when he existed. Some on this forum do not know who the son of God is. They think that he is just and ordinary man that did not receive the spirit of God until Jordon, or that he still has the same human body that he always had since birth.  HOW SAD. Even the trinitarians know better and have sounder understanding.

    John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    Definition of Image in Col 1:15 above:
    1504 eikṓn (from 1503 /eíkō, “be like”) – properly, “mirror-like representation,” referring to what is very close in resemblance (like a “high-definition” projection, as defined by the context). Image (1504 /eikṓn) then exactly reflects its source (what it directly corresponds to). For example, Christ is the very image (1504 /eikṓn, supreme expression) of the Godhead (see 2 Cor 4:4; Col 1:15).
    “1504 (eikṓn) assumes a prototype, of which it not merely resembles, but from which it is drawn” (R. Trench). 1504 (eikṓn) then is more than a “shadow”; rather it is a replication (F. F. Bruce, Hebrews, 226; see also Lightfoot at Col 3:10 and 2:21).

    Me: God is spirit. He is invisible. Christ is the express image of the invisible God. So Christ is invisible. God has existed as a spirit  since eternity past and will continue to do so for eternity future. No body was or is needed. God is sufficient in himself.  But he is love and loves us.

    Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/1-3.htm

    Number 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.

    Me: The LORD opened the eyes of the ass first, and then Balaam to see the body of the spirit of the angel.  This is something he hasn’t done with you, Anthony, and Jodi.  So, in the future, don’t put down any ass.

    Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

    Me: Angels are invisible spirits with bodies that can be revealed to opened eyes.

    Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    Me: We will have spiritual bodies like the angels.
    New American Standard Bible
    1 Cor 15:45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

    The last man Adam became a spirit, period. Men have sprits (souls) that are expressed  to their bodies. We too become images of God through Christ. We become spirits and sons of God through our minds in the holy spirit. Our bodies diminish, and our spirits are less effective through them.

    #834294
    Truthcomber
    Participant

    Hi Eugene,

    Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    Me: If God is our Father. And he the father of spirits, then we must become spirits when we die.

    #834295
    Truthcomber
    Participant

    Hi Eugene.,

    You: Jesus plainly to us his resurected body was not a spirit but flesh and bone. But you would have us believe that is not true, Jesus certainly did not agree with you it seems, he had the spirit of the living God in him which dwelt in his physical flesh and bone body.

    Me: That is the stupidest thing I ever heard. The bone marrow manufactures blood. You would have Christ and the saints be flesh and bone without blood. How absurd! We are not zombies.

    New American Standard Bible
    Lev 17:11 ‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.

    Me: Christ said that he was flesh and bones that you could touch and feel, not that he was flesh and bones without blood.

    Although I do not believe in the Eucharist, the article is excellent in addressing the “flesh and bones” heresy.

    Does the Glorified Body of Christ Have Blood?

    So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” The Hebrew word being translated there as “bone” means “bone, substance, self,” and in other contexts, is translated as “same.” So if it wasn’t already obvious, Adam isn’t suggesting that Eve is bloodless, or that her blood comes from somewhere else. He means that they share a common substance. They have, if you will, a shared “human corporeality.”… Could we, using this same logic, deny that His Body has hair or fingernails?
    There’s also a very good reason to believe that Christ uses the “Flesh and Bone” imagery precisely to recall Adam and Eve. In some (but not all) of the ancient versions of Ephesians 5:30, we find this line: “we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” This is an identification of the Church as the New Eve to Christ’s New Adam.

    Me: Your reasoning is not sound.

    #834296
    Truthcomber
    Participant

    Hi Eugene,

    You: Perhaps you never read where Paul said “know you not that your ‘Body’ IS THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD…

    Me:
    Luke 21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

    Me: Yes, but you will have a body of the holy spirit of the shape and figure of your fleshly bodies. But it shall not be your fleshly body.

    1 Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be…42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    Me: The body that we inherit is reserved in heaven for us. It is of the same form as our physical bodies at their peaks, but it is a body of the spirit. The bodies we now have are bodies of our souls (here human spirit). The bodies we will inherit are of the holy spirit, for there is only one spirit in the end (Eph 4:4). Their is only one life force of the physical body now (Eccl 3:19).

    New American Standard Bible
    2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

    Click on the link below. Then click on 4636 above “tent”.

    Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance
    tabernacle.
    From skene; a hut or temporary residence, i.e. (figuratively) the human body (as the abode of the spirit) — tabernacle.
    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/5-1.htm

    John 14:2 New King James Version (NKJV) In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    Me: The bodies we inhabit now are temporary.  The soul we have in the body is temporary.  The reflection of the body from the soul is temporarily.  

    Eccl 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

    Me: As we grow older, our spirits do not coordinate with our bodies as efficiently. I propose that the spirit that returns to God is the holy spirit in those that had it in the OT.  Their minds in it had deceased or slept.  The holy spirit returns to God for the NT saints.  The different is that the spirit (minds) of the saints are in it.  If spirit sounds better, you can use that, because the mind is of the spirit.

    2 Cor 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
    Me:

    Me: We are clothe with a new body of the holy spirit at the second coming of Christ.

    You: and again God the father speaking first person through Jesus’ mouth said, “destory this TEMPLE and in three days I ‘GOD’ shall raise it up.

    Me: The body that was raised up from the dead was his fleshly body “this temple”.  This is not the glorified spirit body he would inherit for eternity. Nor is it the glorified spirit bodies we will receive.

    Matt 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    Me: It is raised a glorious body, a different body, that is in the image of our physical bodies.

    You: TC you are greatly mistaking in what you are saying, forcing the text to meet your ideas is bad form TC. IMO

    Me: No, it is you, Anthony and Jodi that are forcing the text to meet your foolishness. I have shown you all the scriptures.

    When and if you do respond, please stick the topic: what form are our resurrected bodies become. We have gone over the rest numerous times already.  It is not nice to continually beat a dead horse.

    #834297
    Truthcomber
    Participant

    Hi All,

     

    It was not my intention that the above illustration be present.  I don’t believe half of  it.  I just pick what is right from wherever.  Being punished in hell and burning forever is a pagan belief, not mind.  I think Jodi especially and Anthony did an excellent job in this area.

    1 Thes 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

    Me: This means drop that which is not good.

     

     

    #834299
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    TC…So to you spirits “are” bodies of some kind? Interesting Jesus didn’t think so. Do you even know what a spirit is?, you seem to not even have a clue what spirits are. Spirits are not bodies of anykind they are what is ‘IN’ BODIES. Bodies have mass, spirits do not. There are ton of scriptures that clearly show this. But you seem to deny this and even what Jesus clearly said about spirits. Maybe you should go read what Jesus said, instead of giving us your opinions.

    God did not create us to be spirit beings, but human beings, who have spirits “in” us, Just as Jesus now has and had after his resurection. He clearly said he was “NOT” A SPIRIT after his resurection. YOU DENY HIS WORDS, and preach a teaching of your own. You say you don’t believe in pagan teachings,but use the to uphold you views, why is that?

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #834301
    Anthony
    Participant

    Hi All

    This may help

    This is tied to a key theological principle, “the analogy of faith,” which is often explained with the phrase “Scripture interprets Scripture.” If the Bible originates in the infallible mind of God, it must be consistent throughout. Because there can be no contradiction in the mind of God, there can be no contradiction in the revelation of God. What the Bible teaches in one place it cannot refute in another. Therefore, any true doctrine must be consistent with the whole of Scripture. Doctrine must never be treated in isolation, but always in light of a correct understanding of the entire Bible. Too many false teachers isolate verses or ideas that cannot withstand the scrutiny of the whole Book.

    The test: Is this doctrine established or refuted by the entirety of Scripture?

    Once we have tested doctrine and found it to be true, according to these three criteria, we can also see its soundness by its effects on us and those around us. That requires two more tests.

    #834304
    Truthcomber
    Participant

    True

    #834305
    Truthcomber
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    You: TC…So to you spirits “are” bodies of some kind? Interesting Jesus didn’t think so. Do you even know what a spirit is?… you seem to not even have a clue what spirits are.

    Me: No Gene, I never said that spirits are bodies. Quote me.  I said spirits can reflect themselves in bodies.

    Here are some of the things I said in this regard:
    The lamb’s body is the expressed glory of the holy spirit.
    First of all, a spirit can exist and live without a body.
    John 4:24 God is a Spirit:
    Angels are invisible spirits with bodies that can be revealed to opened eyes.
    We will have spiritual bodies like the angels.
    The lamb’s body is the expressed glory of the holy spirit
    Men have sprits (souls) that are expressed to their bodies
    The soul we have in the body is temporary.
    We are clothe with a new body of the holy spirit at the second coming of Christ.

    Me: Which of these quotes accuse me of saying spirits are bodies of some kind?  No Gene, I said spirits have bodies, not spirits are bodies. Spirits are in our minds and are the life of the body.

    James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead…

    Me: Please quote me where I said spirits are bodies. You can’t, I never ever said that. You twist what I said. You twist what scripture reveals. This is not unique to you or on other websites.

    You: Spirits are not bodies of any kind they are what is ‘IN’ BODIES. Bodies have mass, spirits do not. There are ton of scriptures that clearly show this. But you seem to deny this and even what Jesus clearly said about spirits. Maybe you should go read what Jesus said, instead of giving us your opinions.

    Me: Maybe you should learn how to think clearly. I never said any of that. Please quote me. Also, you have not provided any scriptures to prove your twisted doctrine. Please stick to the topic of “bodies”.

    You: God did not create us to be spirit beings, but human beings, who have spirits “in” us, Just as Jesus now has and had after his resurection. He clearly said he was “NOT” A SPIRIT after his resurection. YOU DENY HIS WORDS, and preach a teaching of your own. You say you don’t believe in pagan teachings, but use the to uphold you views, why is that?

    Me: Provide me with at least one scripture.

    1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    Me: Human beings are spirit beings with bodies. When this spirit leaves the body, the body is dead. The spirit is the life of the body.   The spirit is the reality of existence.

    Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit…10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    Me: We are foremost spirit beings.  This does not mean that are spirits are bodies. This means are spirits have bodies.

    John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    Me: Can you not see. God is spirit, not God is body. God can give of his spirit. This does not mean that God is diminished. It means that God is infinite spirit. God is a spirit and is spirit. We become spirit beings with the spirit of God in our minds.  That is what it means to be spirit beings.  We are spirit beings in our minds. We have bodies that reflect the glory of the spirit in our minds.  This seems to be something you do not understand, right now anyway.

    Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    #834307
    Jodi
    Participant

    TC,

    There is not a scripture that says that we will have bodies like angels, we are told that we are not able to die anymore like the angels. Just because we are not able to die anymore like the angels does NOT equate to we will have the same body as them. We are told directly the OPPOSITE actually.

    38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    Jesus was raised from the dead with a flesh and bones body, he was raised we are told in glory and power. The glory of the celestial is one, the glory of the terrestrial is another TC.

    The DIFFERENCE to the body Jesus had before he died, and the glorious and powerful flesh and bones body he was raised with, is that it cannot die, therefore it is not weak to have to serve itself in order to live, it is no longer in chains fearing death, it is incapable to any form of temptation. These FACTS are what make his body SPIRITUAL, there is NOTHING that can draw his body away from God, it is incapable of sin, from missing God’s mark. Spiritual does not equate to meaning Jesus must have some other sort of body. Spiritual means righteousness. 

    We are told that the GLORY of the celestial BODY and the GLORY of the terrestrial BODY are NOT the SAME. The terrestrial body is made up of the elements that the earth is made up of, this is why Adam means “red earth”. These elements scientists have organized into what we call the periodic table, and they are still discovering elements. All earth and the creatures therein God made through different combinations of these elements. What Celestial bodies are made of I don’t know.

    We are told that the first Adam was made a living soul, and that the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Quickening means brought to LIFE, to give life. The first Adam was made a living soul and he died and he is still dead, but the last Adam though he died he had his spirit quickened/brought to life again.  The verse is not saying anything of the sort that Jesus was given the same body as the angels. The last Adam “of the red earth” was dead, but his body was not allowed to decay, God brought the body to life, and thus he quickened the last Adam’s spirit.

    TC you are confused, all of God’s creatures that have life are called in the bible as being living souls. It is vanity we are told, emptiness to think that we have any advantage over other animals, as animals die we suffer the same exact fate. Wise Solomon, King David, and Isaiah, all tell us that when you die your plans perish, you know nothing, you cannot praise God when you are dead, you can do no work, or devise anything.  Read through all of the verses and see how the words soul and spirit are used, they are used interchangeably. They represent your life, your mind, your heart. Your body is controlled by and is animated by your brain, and your mind that exists therein. Your thoughts, words and deeds are a product of your mind. You character is a product of your mind. When you die your heart stops pumping blood to your brain and your brain dies, your mind can no longer function, it is dead, your spirit is DEAD TC.

    Luke 24: 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

    Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    TC the scripture is CLEAR according to the FLESH Jesus would be raised up to sit on David’s throne. People were witnesses to this, to the resurrection of Jesus, and Jesus had people feel and touch him so that they could see that he was flesh and bones. 

    The body of Jesus was weak-it was able to die

    God would not allow this body to decay

    The body of Jesus was raised in power– no longer able to die

    Jesus was not given a different “kind” of body, the body that he died with, this body was not allowed to see decay, it was given eternal life. His same body was given eternal life. This is exactly what we are told.

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