- This topic has 3,676 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 9 months ago by
.
- Posts
Nick….True, Good advice, you need to take it and apply it to yourself, for a change. Every tree is known by it’s fruit, “you” either make the tree good and it’s fruit good , or corrupt and it’s fruit corrupt.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Anthony, yes GOD’S PLAN IS TO SAVE ALL MANKIND, Some are saved by the blood of Jesus , others by fire (intense judgements) later, but saved none the less. By faith given us by God the FATHER, WE ARE BEING DELIVERED, THROUGH MANY MANIFOLD TRIALS AND TEMPTATIONS, That God our heavenly Father puts on us to cleans us from our sins, because just as it says, THOSE GOD LOVES he deciplines and scourages every son he excepts. We are all being salted with fire and going through testing even now. So keep the faith brother, you and Jodi both have a good understanding of scripture. Don’t let Satan and his messengers cause you to loose heart, we must all trust in GOD the Father and our lord Jesus christ, to the end to recieve the Crown of life, also don’t forget we are saved by “GRACE” and that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, and remember what Jesus said, “you shall ‘all’ be taught by GOD.” NOW we who have the spirit know the sound of the spirit, because he has given us THEIR spirit of truth that abides in us, and we have “NO” NEED OF A TEACHER, FOR THE SPIRIT ITSELF, TEACHES US ALL THINGS.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Hi Gene,
1tim 4.1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron..
Such as we see with the universalist doctrine.
Nick…So to you GOD IS A FAILURE, IS UNABLE TO SAVE HIS CREATION, if GOD SAYS he is NOT WILLING ANY PARISH, He still is not able to save all.
You are preaching a form of “free will” salvation based on ones own works, as the world preaches, you are deminishing not only GOD THE FATHERS POWER, but his will and his ability to do what he says also.
Your salvation seems to be base on yourself Nick, where does your Faith in GOD the Father, and JESUS our lord come in. DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE GOD CAN SAVE US through Jesus, but is unable to save the rest of humanity. Bad form Nick.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Gene,
God has revealed His plan and it gives all the opportunity to to saved in Jesus Christ.
His love also allows those who have treated the brothers of the Lord well the same blessing.
But He has not said that He will save all as you presumptuously teach because He gave us His Son.
Those who do not respect His Son and the amazing gift of the suffering servant make up their own stuff.
Hi Nick,
You said, ”
Hi Anthony,
Your teaching of universalism denies the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It denies the worth of his suffering and his death for us.
It denies the salvation plan of God.
It is of the pit.”
Jesus died for the unrighteous, don’t forget that!! He died so that ALL could be resurrected, don’t forget that either!! Some are resurrected into LIFE while others into JUDGMENT.
Jesus also said that God has to call people to Jesus in order for them to believe. Those resurrected in the first resurrection are to be leaders, kings and priests, they are the firstfruits, not the ONLY fruit.
Anthony’s teaching does not deny anything. You on the other hand deny God’s abilities, and say that within man there is potential for him to have a stronger power than that of God, a stronger power of influence.
The SALVATION plan of God is that Jesus died so that ALL could be raised from the dead, and that God is not willing that any could perish but all come to repentance and the knowledge of him.
Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Nick, in order for God to make His power known to the Israelites He hardened Pharoah’s heart. In order to make His power known to those He predestined to be the firstfruits of His Spirit, He had to have some fitted for destruction. When Christ comes with his saints they come to judge and destroy. But Christ died for the UNGODLY, so that ALL could be resurrected, for salvation is to come to ALL men, especially to those who believe, those are the one that will be leaders. Your problem is that you deny the calling of the elect, you think all now have the opportunity by their choosing, but they DO NOT as Paul teaches in Romans 9. God chooses, and He has chosen all at different times. If He did not choose ALL then a second resurrection would be pointless, a second death where in it death itself is destroyed, wouldn’t be necessary. But in fact the truth is as we are told, God the potter, does have POWER OVER the clay!
Hi Jodi,
Yes Jesus died for sinners.
That is why God wants all men everywhere to repent.acts 17.
There is only one door to life and still open to all. For men – once to die and then the judgement.
Hi Jodi,
He can that we could have life, and life in abundance.
All will be raised but only those reborn into him and those given mercy by God can share that life.
The goats can only expect the promised lake of fire.
Hi All
1. Get in God’s Word every day.
Whether it’s a reading plan, a verse-of-the-day app, or listening to gospel music in the car or while you run, make God’s Word a part of your routine. Even if you just flip open your Bible before bed and read for five minutes, do something, and do it every day. Start small and then let it grow! The more familiar you make yourself with the voice of your Shepherd, the more easily you can recognize it.
2. Take time to pray.
Pray about little things, big things, silly things. Prayers don’t have to be long or formal. When you see something beautiful, say, “Thank you, God!” When you are moved to tears or giggles, just tell Him about it. When you don’t understand something, just let Him know. Develop trust in your Shepherd by sharing your fears, your hopes and your needs with Him.
3. Take time for quiet.
Take time to listen. When life gets chaotic and confusing, and you don’t know which path to take, pause and listen. What scriptures come to mind? Has God helped you with something similar in the past? Ask God to inspire you with His Holy Spirit. In my experience, if you ask, He always will! The more you pray and saturate your mind with God’s words, the more you will able to recognize His voice above the voice of the crowd.
Be a sheep not a goat.
Hi All
The central difference between sheep and goats—is really simple. It’s an idea that we can come back to when we need to stay on track: A sheep is led by its shepherd. A goatherd is led by his goat.
Hi All
sheep of today are much different than sheep as they were created. Again, they have been bred in such a way as to produce fluffier, dumber sheep. But they are, and have always been, dependent on their shepherd and defenseless. Goats, on the other hand, have a reputation for being independent, opinionated and curious at best—or vulgar, dangerous and destructive at worst.
Here are some fun quotes about goats from a livestock forum: “If you leave goats in with your horse, they may chew off his tail.” some has described goats as ‘Jack Russells with hooves.’” “If your fence won’t hold water, it won’t hold a goat.” And about 50 testimonies of goats climbing and butting cars.
So I would boil all that down this way: Shepherds protect shee9p from their environment, whereas goatherds protect the environment from their goats. So for us to be God’s sheep, we must depend on Him to defend us. If we push, take, destroy and bully, we are goats.
The main thing though—the central difference between sheep and goats—is really simple. It’s an idea that we can come back to when we need to stay on track: A sheep is led by its shepherd. A goatherd is led by his goat.
Literally! Sheep follow the voice of their shepherd and trust him to lead them to food, water and safety. If they wander, which some do, the shepherd will go out and rescue them and bring them back to the safety of the flock. Sheep separated from their shepherd and flock are nervous and vulnerable because they have no defensive or offensive survival abilities.
A goat, however, doesn’t follow anyone. A herd of goats goes where it wants, and the goatherd follows behind. Instead of grazing, goats “browse”—foraging for whatever strikes their fancy. So that tells us that if we are allowing ourselves to be led, being sensitive to the pull of God’s Spirit, and following the path of our Shepherd, we are sheep. If we are headstrong, going our own way, and pulling back against God’s Spirit, we are goats.
So the thing that God sees in His sheep is a gentle and yielded spirit. They trust their Shepherd. They follow His voice. On the other hand (pun intended), the goats have a spirit of defiance, self-will, or independence from God’s involvement in their lives. God bless .
Nick,
I just gave you scripture and you did not address them. God has mercy on whom He chooses to have mercy, those who did not receive his mercy we see Paul tell us do SERVE a purpose in order for God to perform His plan. What was that purpose?
We are told that purpose, “What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
In order to CALL an elect number of people it was needed that we see a comparison, the fruit of those who have God’s Spirit working in them verses man’s ways who have not God. Remember Nick that the law was a tutor to bring people to Christ. The law showed man that he on his own is incapable of being made perfect by it, what the law did was it produced sin, “for where there is no law there is no sin”.
Christ was able to follow the law because God had given him His Spirit without measure. Christ said only God was good and that he could do nothing of himself. So the law was a tutor to bring man to Christ, to show men that we also of our own selves can do nothing, we are not good, we need also to be anointed and led by God’s Spirit.
You declare men to be good Nick from within themselves, because they have made the choice to follow God’s Spirit. This is contrary to the words of Jesus, which is that no MAN is GOOD. Goodness in a man is the work of God, it is God working His influence in man. As said before those who are Christ’s, those who God has given to Christ to be his saints, God had to call them into him. These are not my words but Christ himself’s words.
Are we not also told that God WILL CAUSE people to follow Him, through changing their hearts? YES, God CAUSES people to follow Him. I spoke earlier about how guilt and shame are needed in order to bring a man into repentance. What is needed even before that, is a heart that has EMPATHY for others. Charity covers a multitude of sins. The Pharaoh lacked empathy, God had hardened his heart, any empathy that he might have had before was cut off, in order that God could make His power known.
Romans 9 applies to what was needed in order to call the elect, in order to make the firstfruits of God’s Spirit, in order to make kings and priests.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Those in the second resurrection are being raised to be judged. What was the process that occurred when God called the elect, they were punished, those whom God loves He chasteneth and scourgeth. He put them through the fire in order that they be made clean, for our God is a consuming fire. What are we told in Revelation, people are raised from the dead to be judged and placed into fire. The wicked are destroyed indeed, there will be no more wicked men. You say Nick that the people themselves are destroyed, but it is the sinful heart within them that is destroyed, and thus there is no liar, unbeliever, idolater, immoral person. Those people had been placed in the fire and were refined.
You want us to believe that people are being raised from the dead to be sentenced to death again. They are being raised to be judged according to their hearts and the deeds performed according to their hearts, and the amount of their wickedness will be measured by the amount that God must chasteneth and scourgeth them in the fire, to that which is necessary to bring them into remorse and repentance.
Be thankful to God that He gave you His mercy, that He placed His Spirit upon you, and kept your heart from being wicked. Who would want to face the fire of the second death, who would want to feel that amount of shame and self loathing? This truth makes us all the more want God’s Spirit working in us, we want to be good, we do not want to fall and have to deal with the sort of shame and guilt that occurs in our hearts when going through the fire. The fire is not quenched until God is all in all.
So my words you say Nick are not of God they are of the pit. You explain Romans 9 then Nick. You explain how we are told God is a consuming fire who uses that fire to punish and refine, but in the case of the fire in Revelation when men are indeed risen to be judged, a different fire is being spoken of.
Nick….what this mean to you,
Rom 11:32….For God has concluded them “ALL” in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
And again …1 Jn 2:2…And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours “ONLY”, but the sins of the “whole world”.
Nick you say “opertunity” as if it is up to man to save himself, but scripture say different,
Rom 8:29….For whom “HE” did foreknow “HE” also did “predestinate” to be conformed to the image of his son, that they might be the firstborn among many brethern. 30.. Moreover whom “HE” did “PREDESTINATE”, them “HE” also called: and whom he called, them “HE” also “JUSTIFIED”
ROM 8:31…what shall we then say to these things?, i GOD be for us, who can be against us? Read the rest of the chapter also, and come back and tell us is it “opertunity” OF MAN or predestination by GOD?
Who gets the glory man or God the Father?It’s all by FAITH and that FAITH, IS “GIVEN TO US”, BY GOD THE FATHER, from start to finish, you use of the word “opertunity” causing you to believe it’s up you to save yourself, that is not of faith, but of works. But we know we are saved not by works of law but by the Faith of our lord Jesus Christ.
Nick, i thought you understood these things brother.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Jodi
Great Scriptures. Great post.
Romans 9 applies to what was needed in order to call the elect, in order to make the firstfruits of God’s Spirit, in order to make kings and priests.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth
I can’t help but to think from time to time that I want to make the first resurrection, so I can see Jesus as soon as possible, and the thought that we will be Kings and Priest with Him in the literal Kingdom it sounds selfish that I will be like Him. And see Him as He is. I can’t help to say, I hope I make it, I will hold on to Him . I don’t want to be a goat. God bless.
Hi Gene,
Wake up Gene.
The meaning of ALL depends on the CONTEXT.
What is the context in which it is written? Superficial reading of scripture is just folly.
Hi Nick,
I think we should take a look at the entire chapter of Romans 11!
Read it carefully Nick, and if you wouldn’t mind give us a summary of it’s message, so that we may have the CONTEXT you spoke about to Gene for verse 32.
Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the WORLD, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the WORLD, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
