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Hi Jodi,
You have presented a lot of verbiage with some understanding of what the scriptures reveal and a misrepresenting what I have said. I feel that there is no need to discuss this further unless you can bring something new to the table. We have been discussing the same things over and over again. You and Gene believe what you think you are led to believe. I do not believe in a lot that you have said, and likewise you do not believe all of what I have stated. So I will rest and leave it in God’s hands. May God bless us all.
Lester
Hi TC
You never replied on page 6 of Hell and the second death. You said
Hi truthcomber
You said
Hi Anthony,
Yes, Christ had to first ascend into heaven where he is there temporarily before he returns to earth where he was created. He will rule the earth from Jerusalem. His father will be here also.
Sorry if I’m reading this wrong but it looks like you where saying when Jesus returns to earth again .( Second coming) .
Yes, Christ had to first ascend into heaven where he is there temporarily before he returns to earth where he was created.
Did I get your train of thought wrong some how, if so I apologize.
God bless. I don’t believe Jesus Christ was created. You poted this and then you told me you didn’t believe Jesus Christ was created either. What is it, you do or you don’t believe God’s word is nothing to play with.
Hi truthcomber
You said the Father will be here also . Father God won’t be here till the only begotten Son turns the kingdom over to His Father, God.
Just before the new heaven and Earth. At that time also The only begotten Son comes under subjection to Father God. God bless.
TC…You are adding contexts to scriptures that are not actually said or implyed. You said Adam was not given a body that couldn’t die in time, implying God intended his body to die, but GOD said had he eaten of the tree of life he would never have died. Just as he was, so he prevented him from eating from it. Why would God do that if he could not have lived forever just as he was?
Also Celestial bodies does not mean, not physical, as you seem assume, it means “heavenly” bodies outside of our earth as other planets are. Terestrial means this earth, the glory of the Celestial planets is one thing, the glory of the Terestrial earth is another. But both are physical and have there own glory. No scripture says Jesus the christ, was born with a Celestrial body, you added that.
Jesus was resurected with the body he was buried with. He did no sin, so his body did not parish by corupting in the grave. Adam and Eve would still be alive and have their same bodies had they not sinned, just as God said, they would never die.
Also you are completely wrong concerning the resurection of saints taking place imeditaly when they die after the time of Pentecost. All saints who have dies are still waiting the resurection from the dead, which will take place at the return of Jesus, just as scripture says.
Adding to scriptures while ignoring other scriptures dealing with a subjects is bad form TC. The sum of scriptures is where the truth is. A true conclusion can only be drawn when all scripture dealing with a paticular subject matter can apply. IMO
SCRIPTURE plainly shows the first general resurection of the saints takes place at the return of Jesus christ. That is solidly supported in our scriptures.
Jodi has said the same things because your not it so she has to repeate to to you, the truth never changes so naturally it will be repeated, again and again, why shouldn’t it be?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
TC,
First off there is nothing in Acts 2 that says people received an immortal mind of Christ when the Holy Spirit came giving them gifts of the Spirit at Pentecost.
Our MINDS exist in our bodies, it exists in our BRAIN of which is an organ in our body that needs the breath of life to function. People who lose oxygen in their brain can suffer brain loss. Brain loss can cause the inability to think properly, to remember, to comprehend. When a person dies their brain dies also, this is EXACTLY WHY we are told by the prophets that when you die you have no knowledge, you have no plans, you cannot devise, you cannot praise God. This is why we are told that we are like the animals when we die and fully return to the dust.
In order to have a MIND that is ALIVE you MUST have a BODY that is alive with a functioning brain. All other ideas are ignorant of God and His creation of human beings and how He created us. All other ideas have been established by ignorance and the imagination of men, which in the time of David and Solomon there were all sorts of myths and superstitions about the brain.
Receiving the Holy Spirit is referred to as being led by the Holy Spirit, it is to be TAUGHT by the Holy Spirit, to receive wisdom and knowledge in the BRAIN God gave us, who designed it to be capable of learning, able to be influenced. We know that we only use a portion of our brain power, God has sealed off much of it. For some, certain functions become totally turned off when there is damage to it. Sometimes when there is damage to one side of the brain the other side opens up and people can accomplish things they never could before, like having powerful math skills, and drawing skills.
I am not going to be ignorant to God’s creation of the human body, and believe in old superstitions. What David and Solomon and other humans that God gave wisdom to and wrote that wisdom in scripture, I am going to believe what they said, and it makes perfect sense given what we have discovered even just recently about our brains.
Acts 2:29 “Fellow Israelites, I may say to you confidently of our ancestor David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Since he was a prophet, he knew that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would put one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
died– Teleutao to finish, bring to and end, close to have an end or close, come to an end
There is NOTHING in Acts 2 that speaks of David nor those receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit, as receiving some immortal mind that never dies.
David died and the passage speaks as him still being DEAD, plain and simple. David has not ascended to heaven it says, no part of him. Acts quotes what David had said in regards to the Messiah before he died, and David’s tomb is still with us today. Would have been pretty easy for the author to say instead of saying David died and his tomb is with us today, for him to speak of David according to what you are trying to teach. But instead what Acts says is the OPPOSITE, and speaks of him as he is still dead. Why would Acts even bother to say that we can still see his tomb? Simple, because it reminds us WHERE he IS, in the GRAVE. There would be no other purpose for saying his tomb is still with us today. Especially if you knew what David said in regards to people in Sheol, that they don’t think, because their brain is part of their body and if the body is dead, so is the MIND.
Another thing, nowhere in scripture are we told that Jesus became a “spirit beings”, on the contrary Acts 2 and all throughout the NT we are told that Jesus is a MAN, a human being, the last Adam that was quickened, given life again, not having his flesh see decay. He is still made of the RED EARTH.
David spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.
What did they witness? They witnessed the resurrected Christ, a body that died but did not see decay, a body that was flesh and bones, a body that was raised incorruptible, with glory and power.
The people were witnesses to this resurrected body! This is a SPIRITUAL BODY because there exists in it NO MORE ENMITY, there is no longer the bondage of the fear of death. The mind has been made free. Flesh that has eternal life does not seek service, it does not tempt, it is a spiritual body. Jesus was deserving of this spiritual body because his human mind that God had designed, before He made the world to be perfected, was perfected. God accomplished that by LEADING Jesus with the influence of His Spirit, by giving gifts of His Spirit to Jesus without measure. Such gifts gave POWER to the BRAIN of Jesus, to his mind, that power made him able to see the hearts of others, to know how to heal others, to know how to multiply food, to know how to walk on water, to have the wisdom and understanding to have perfect faith in God. We are born ignorant creatures, but unlike animals we were given a brain that is capable of knowing and having faith in God. We have brain power within us that God can give to us. All of God’s work and longsuffering has been to bring mankind into perfection, not to bring him to be some other sort of spirit being.
We do not reach perfection by becoming something entirely different, Paul teaches that we have a body that is to be restored, a body that is to be delivered.
Adam and Eve were created with this body, a body that was not weak, a body that did not need food in order to live, a body that did not sweat, or feel pain, a body that was not able to deteriorate and grow old, but the mind that was in them was ignorant, it was like a serpent, and it did not have faith in God, they ate the fruit of their own way, and their sin brought death.
God has allowed time to show man that man’s way is horrid, we can do nothing of ourselves, that we must be taught by God and trust in Him with all things. God perfected the human mind, in part through the history of mankind. Did Jesus not quote scripture from the OT, did he not learn of the past, and the weakness of man? Did this history of man not work in Jesus faith all the more? Yes it did! The human mind of man was perfected, and Jesus deserved not just the body that Adam had before the fall, but now an immortal body that could never die.
You wrote:
Yes, Christ had to first ascend into heaven where he is there temporarily before he returns to earth where he was created. He will rule the earth from Jerusalem. His father will be here also.
Sorry if I’m reading this wrong but it looks like you where saying when Jesus returns to earth again .( Second coming) .
Yes, Christ had to first ascend into heaven where he is there temporarily before he returns to earth where he was created.
Did I get your train of thought wrong some how, if so I apologize.
God bless. I don’t believe Jesus Christ was created. You posted this and then you told me you didn’t believe Jesus Christ was created either. What is it, you do or you don’t believe God’s word is nothing to play with.Me: I believe Christ is the direct expression of our heavenly father. God said if you have seen me, you have seen the father. How does God look like and how would he have acted like if he was in the flesh—exactly like Christ. God knew Christ from eternity. On the other hand, did the Messiah know God from eternity? Our human reasoning says no, no more than we knew God from eternity, but he knew us. But our human reasoning is flawed. There may be things we cannot remember yet and understand about eternity. The vision on the mount was as if it was had happened already (Matt 17:1-9), even Christ that was crucified before the foundation of the ages. Further, the word states that Christ was made a little lower than God Almighty. It also says that Christ is to be worshiped as God. It further states that Christ is called the Word of God, who is God. So, God almighty and his son are one. But God is supreme and only has eternal life. God has his own mind, and the son of God has his own mind. We are one with Christ and have our own minds. All this is done of the spirit of God.
Christ grew from a seed. I believe a seed is of the spirit in which it has the program and life force of the body, spirit and mind that will come forth. I believe this spirit was the holy spirit of God. The human that came forth was of the genes of David and Mary. This was in the program of the spirit of God. Thus, Christ did not inherit death from his parents.
On, the other hand, John the Baptist was of the seed of man. He had another seed of the holy spirit, like we do, but from birth. He would have to die of his human body and human spirit and have a body of the spirit, like Christ, and a mind like Christ.Hi Gene,
You wrote:
TC…You are adding contexts to scriptures that are not actually said or implyed. You said Adam was not given a body that couldn’t die in time, implying God intended his body to die, but GOD said had he eaten of the tree of life he would never have died. Just as he was, so he prevented him from eating from it. Why would God do that if he could not have lived forever just as he was?
Me: When Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, he died, didn’t he? Only if he had eaten of the tree of life would he never have died. God intended Adam to die (Rev 13:8). He became like God when he had eaten of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil (Gen 3:22).
You: Also Celestial bodies does not mean, not physical, as you seem assume, it means “heavenly” bodies outside of our earth as other planets are. Terrestrial means this earth, the glory of the Celestial planets is one thing, the glory of the Terrestrial earth is another. But both are physical and have there own glory. No scripture says Jesus the Christ, was born with a Celestial body, you added that.
Me: You added that. I said Christ was born of a human body of flesh and bones and would inherit a celestial body. His body would shine like the bright morning star (Rev 21:22) which is a celestial body.
You: Jesus was resurrected with the body he was buried with. He did no sin, so his body did not perish by corrupting in the grave. Adam and Eve would still be alive and have their same bodies had they not sinned, just as God said, they would never die.
Me: It would have corrupted because it had died.
You: Also you are completely wrong concerning the resurrection of saints taking place immediately when they die after the time of Pentecost. All saints who have died are still waiting the resurection from the dead, which will take place at the return of Jesus, just as scripture says.
Me: I don’t believe that. They are alive now awaiting their new bodies. I have already explained that. I get tire of chewing the cud.
You: Adding to scriptures while ignoring other scriptures dealing with a subjects is bad form TC. The sum of scriptures is where the truth is. A true conclusion can only be drawn when all scripture dealing with a particular subject matter can apply. IMO
Me: I have presented my case with all the scriptures to support it. You believe otherwise. On the other hand, you believe you and Jodi have supported your arguments. I don’t.
You: SCRIPTURE plainly shows the first general resurrection of the saints takes place at the return of Jesus Christ. That is solidly supported in our scriptures.
Jodi has said the same things because your not it so she has to repeat to you, the truth never changes so naturally it will be repeated, again and again, why shouldn’t it be?Me: repeating something that is not true does not make it so. Yes, you and Jodi believe what you have presented the truth, I don’t.
Hi Jodi,
You wrote: First off there is nothing in Acts 2 that says people received an immortal mind of Christ when the Holy Spirit came giving them gifts of the Spirit at Pentecost.
Me: We receive an immortal mind like Christ, not his immortal mind.
You: Our MINDS exist in our bodies, it exists in our BRAIN of which is an organ in our body that needs the breath of life to function. People who lose oxygen in their brain can suffer brain loss. Brain loss can cause the inability to think properly, to remember, to comprehend. When a person dies their brain dies also, this is EXACTLY WHY we are told by the prophets that when you die you have no knowledge, you have no plans, you cannot devise, you cannot praise God. This is why we are told that we are like the animals when we die and fully return to the dust.
In order to have a MIND that is ALIVE you MUST have a BODY that is alive with a functioning brain. All other ideas are ignorant of God and His creation of human beings and how He created us. All other ideas have been established by ignorance and the imagination of men, which in the time of David and Solomon there were all sorts of myths and superstitions about the brain.
Me: The body, which includes the brain is alive because of the spirit. When the brain is impaired, the spirit does not function in that part. When our body, which includes the brain, deteriorates, our spirit diminishes.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead…Me: The mind is the spiritual aspect of the brain. The spirit is the life force of the whole body. We think not just with our brains, but our whole body.
You: Receiving the Holy Spirit is referred to as being led by the Holy Spirit, it is to be TAUGHT by the Holy Spirit, to receive wisdom and knowledge in the BRAIN God gave us, who designed it to be capable of learning, able to be influenced. We know that we only use a portion of our brain power, God has sealed off much of it. For some, certain functions become totally turned off when there is damage to it. Sometimes when there is damage to one side of the brain the other side opens up and people can accomplish things they never could before, like having powerful math skills, and drawing skills.
I am not going to be ignorant to God’s creation of the human body, and believe in old superstitions. What David and Solomon and other humans that God gave wisdom to and wrote that wisdom in scripture, I am going to believe what they said, and it makes perfect sense given what we have discovered even just recently about our brains.Me: Science Knows about the physical aspects of the brain, but not the spiritual aspects, which includes the mind, of it.
The rest of the verbiage you are presenting below, we have already discussed. You are focusing on the physical aspects of both Christ and man.
1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Hi Anthony,
You wrote:
You said the Father will be here also . Father God won’t be here till the only begotten Son turns the kingdom over to His Father, God.
Just before the new heaven and Earth. At that time also The only begotten Son comes under subjection to Father God.Me: Very true.
Hi Gene and TC
The lie which is used still today. The Father of lies
3 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was [a]pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they werenaked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves [b]coverings.
8 And they heard the [c]sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the [d]cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Whereare you?”
10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”
12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to bewith me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”
13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
And He still using through out the ages in some form or another. The immoral soul. Oh just apart of us goes to heaven with God . The mind noh the soul ect. ect .ect…. On and on . God bless
Gene And TC
What about this one.
Your spirit waits to re-enter animals or newborn baby human. There talking about all of me re-entering someone a little baby or a little kitten. Oh is that a lie. I would t die oh just part of me dies my mind goes back to Go. How’s this all sounds . Wow let’s make a doctorine out of this and call it chritichr. God bless think about TC.
Anthony, TC has not produced one scripture that say, when a saint dies after pentocost they are immediately resurected, not one scripture says that. That is just a false assumption on his part, our spirits go back to him who gave it, our bodies go to the grave where they return to dust. That is exactly what God said, and i don’t believe he lies ever.
Anyone who tries to circumvent that fact is preaching falsely, IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi All
Hosea 6:1-2 (KJV) Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight . God bless
Hi All
And the second commandment of the Teaching; You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born. You shall not covet the things of your neighbor, you shall not swear, you shall not bear false witness, you shall not speak evil, you shall bear no grudge. You shall not be double-minded nor double-tongued, for to be double-tongued is a snare of death. Your speech shall not be false, nor empty, but fulfilled by deed. You shall not be covetous, nor rapacious, nor a hypocrite, nor evil disposed, nor haughty. You shall not take evil counsel against your neighbor. You shall not hate any man; but some you shall reprove, and concerning some you shall pray, and some you shall love more than your own life.we will be like Him.. we will have His Love. God bless
Hi All
Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets. Whosoever, therefore, comes and teaches you all these things that have been said before, receive him. But if the teacher himself turns and teaches another doctrine to the destruction of this, hear him not. But if he teaches so as to increase righteousness and the knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord. But concerning the apostles and prophets, act according to the decree of the Gospel. Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there’s a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet. And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others’ sake who are in need, let no one judge him.
Behold, the miracle of the resurrection
To be away from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Is the Lord in Hades?
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.…
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