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Hi Jodi,
The Spirit of God does not REPRESENT God’s power but IS God’s power to create.
He does share His Spirit with the called and chosen ones who obey His Son.
But the natural ways of men are from creation and influenced by Satan.
The whole world is under the power of the evil one.
Hi Gene,
Dust Man became a living soul.
Men do die but the Saviour has overcome death.
He died and yet lives with his anointed brothers from the OT and the NT.
His brothers sleep.
Hi Jodi,
You say
The Spirit of Life represents God’s ability to create another living thing. God created us giving us our own spirit, our own mind. God gives our spirit gifts of His Spirit, wisdom, understanding, patience, kindness, goodness. Without God’s mercy giving man these gifts we would be ignorant and foolish.
The Spirit of Life is God’s Spirit, not ours. We are mortals we die, when we have God’s breath of life in us we are alive, when we die that Spirit of Life returns to God who gave it. In the resurrection of the righteous the Spirit of Life brings us back to life again it returns to us, and we have that LIFE for an eternity, sustained through our Creators powers.
Natural man is spiritually ignorant and foolish. The religious ones imagine they can understand God.
And intellectuals serve the god of this world in their vain imaginings.
The human spirit spirit is not of the Holy Spirit.
You must be reborn from above.
Hi Jodi,
you say
’To have our Creators Spirit dwelling in us means that our spirit is not carnally minded but spiritually minded, we follow not our own wills or our own ways, we seek God’s ways, His wisdom, His character.
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own devices.
If the created creature governs himself through himself he leads himself to death. If the created creature is governed by the Spirit he has life and peace. Our MIND is a creation it dwells in our BRAIN, and our brain is made up of the elements from the periodic table, when we die it RETURNS to the DUST. Life and peace is held when we are resurrected from the DEAD.’
By no means are those few who receive the Spirit of God automatically governed by it.
It requires the submission of the rebellious vessel to the spiritual Word.
God can raise children of Abraham from the rocks.
Nick….So you are not being saved by the grace of God, but by your own obediance. Interesting concepts you offer, but i think we are better of to believe what scripture says, ” for by grace are you saved and that not of yourselves, it is a “gift” of GOD”. INTERESTING YOU PREACH A SALVATION OF WORKS, BUT scripture shows a salvation of grace. Who are we to believe, you, or God the Father, Jesus and what is writen in scripture? Your teachings of a person still alive when he dies is not of scripture, but of false pagan teachings. “Dust you are and dust you shall return”, says God the Father, and again “the soul that sins it shall die”, now if your soul never sinned then it doesn’t apply to you, but if you have ever sinned it does apply to you, and die does not mean still living when you die, no matter how much you wish it to be. We must all attain unto the resurection of our bodies again to continue to live as a living soul agaln after we die.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
Obedience and repentance is of grace.
But rebellion is not.
Are you under the law of sin and death?
Nick,
God designed the human spirit, He gave it a mind of its own and an imagination. He also made the human spirit to be influential, it can be influenced by it’s own thoughts or other human beings, and it can be influenced by God. A person who is not called who is not the elect of the first calling, is left to his own devices and the devices of the world, other humans and their influences.
The human spirit that is called by God known as the elect, have been educated by God, their spirit has been renewed through the gifts of God’s Spirit. The human spirit was designed to be influenced by God’s Spirit. Goodness sake Nick, we were created as humans and you will always be a HUMAN, a human being is an awesome creation of God, once it has realized that peace and life are through following God with pure faith in Him.
The human spirit is reborn, that means the human spirit is aware of God and seeks God’s guidance.
The human spirit ABSOLUTELY can be of the Holy Spirit, that is the entire point of why God created us, so that we could GROW in the Holy Spirit. Jesus was born of the Spirit at the river, but he was not perfected until he suffered going to the cross. That perfection was his faith, but he is not God, and to this day he is still growing and learning from God.
Hi Jodi,
Nonsense.
The spirits of men and animals are of the breath of God not the Spirit of God.
You must repent and be born again from above to even taste of His Spirit.
The extraordinary vanity of men seemingly knows no bounds .
Nicodemus seemed to get the message.
Hi Jodi,
You say ‘the human spirit is reborn..is aware of God and seeks God’s guidance’
What nonsense. Men are reborn, not their human spirits.
Men must be reborn from above of water and the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is gifted from God, as with Jesus, placed in our vessel for God to work in and through us.
It is according to Him not us. Flesh contributes nothing.
Hi Jodi,
The Disciples too were baptised in the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
God offered the same promise to every generation in Acts 2.39
He has not lost His abilities and has not withdrawn His promise.
Hi TC,
When he died Jesus gave up HIS SPIRIT, not the Holy Spirit.
The spirit of every human born on earth returns to God at death Eccl 12.7
Indeed Job need not worry about being remembered as he will hear the Voice of the Son.
Hi TC,
Jn 4.14
‘ But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give shall never thirst:
but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.’
But you would change this to say that there would be an interruption at death but the supply would resume later.
Hi Nick
The Souls Under The Altar
The following passage in the book of Revelation is often cited in support of the belief that people are created with an immortal soul that survives in a conscious state after death:
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.Here you seemingly have John the revelator observing the conscious living immortal souls of martyred Christians in direct conversation with the Lord. Oddly enough, though, these “souls” are seen under an altar. Where this altar is, is not openly stated, but the assumption by those who believe in an immortal soul is that this altar must be in the heavenly temple of God. For example: Why the martyrs are described as being “under the altar” Obviously, if this assumption is true, the altar of incense in heaven must be extremely large in order for thousands of martyrs to be there. That would be a literal interpretation, and makes about as much sense as all the dead saints literally going to Abraham’s bosom (Luke 16:22), but Revelation is a book full of symbols.
The First Martyr: Abel
As a point of reference, it will be helpful to look first at the biblical account of the first martyr, Abel:
Gen 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
Gen 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother’s keeper?
Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.
Gen 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;Abel’s blood, not Abel himself, cried out to the Lord. Clearly this did not happen in a literal sense. Abel’s shed blood cried out from the ground to the Lord symbolically, for justice to be done, for his blood to be avenged, just like in Rev 6:10.
Nephesh
The book of Leviticus give us some interesting information about blood:
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
It is the Hebrew word nephesh that gives us the key:
Lev 17:11 For the life [H5315 nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: [H5315 nephesh] for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [H5315 nephesh].
The word nephesh occurs three times in that verse, and it is translated life, souls, and soul. So it would be just as proper to translate the verse as follows:
Lev 17:11 For the soul of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Nephesh, according to Strong’s dictionary, also has the meaning of breath, so this is also valid:
Lev 17:11 For the breath of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Now as most people will probably recognize, that is a medically correct statement. The blood carries the oxygen from the lungs throughout the body. The body’s breath is literally carried in the blood! So this verse draws a parallel between breath, soul, and blood. They are, in effect, synonymous in this case. Note this Messianic prophecy in Isaiah:
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul [H5315 nephesh] unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Since the life is in the blood (Lev 17:11), it was Jesus’ blood that was poured out unto death at the cross.
Psuche
The word translated “souls” in Revelation 6:9 in the Greek ispsuche, G5590 in Strong’s dictionary, which also has the meaning of life or breath. Since we have concluded that the blood carries the life and breath in Leviticus 17:11, and life, breath, soul, and blood are synonymous in this case, the following is also a proper translation:
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the blood of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?Now verses 9 and 10 are coherent. It is the shed blood of the martyrs that is seen “under the altar”, not immortal bodiless souls. Just as Abel’s blood cries out symbolically for justice to the Lord, so does the blood of the martyrs “under the altar”.
Hi Nick
The Golden Altar of Incense
The altar of incense however, is in the heavenly sanctuary before the throne of God:Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.However, because the golden altar of incense never had sacrificial blood poured out under it, it is not the altar spoken of in Rev. 6:9.
Two Groups of Martyrs
Now note that there will clearly be two groups of martyrs.Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
This first group in Rev 6:9-11 are told they are to rest for a while until they are joined by a second group of martyrs, which are also mentioned in Revelation 14:
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
These Christian dead “rest” from their labors, asleep in their graves. They are not alive as an immortal soul in heaven, A similar verse about Abel being quite dead is found in Heb 11:4-
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
The Persecutor Drunken with the Blood of the Saints
The context of Revelation 14 (Mystery Babylon and the mark of the beast), and the following verses in Revelation 17, 19 and 20 describe the persecutor of the saints:
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Interestingly enough, Revelation 17 tells us there are two phases of the “beast” which the woman rides:
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beashe first group of Christian martyrs, the group that must rest a while, are from the first persecution phase of the beast, the “beast that was”. The second group of martyrs are to be martyred during the second phase of the beast, the beast that “yet is”.
The White Robes of Judgment
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The “white robes” are the righteousness of Jesus Christ (Isa 61:10) otherwise spoken of as the “wedding garment” (Matt 22:11,12), and the “father’s robe” (Luke 15:22). So Rev 6:11 indicates that the righteous dead are judged prior to the beginning of the second phase of persecution of the saints by the woman riding the beast, the apostate church. This is the beginning of what is called the pre-advent judgment which starts with the house of God (1 Pet 4:17).
Conclusion
So by all of the above, we can conclude that in Revelation 6:9 it is the blood of dead Christian martyrs that cries out symbolically, from where it was shed: on the ground “under the (brazen) altar (of burnt offering)”, which represents the cross, which is to say on the Earth, not in heaven.
Hi Nick,
You:
You find it incredible we do not follow your particular logic?
Logic is uselessness, quenching is not loss.
Presumption is not of faith.
Me:
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_thessalonians/5-19.htmto extinguish — go out, quench.
Me: When you quench the spirit, it goes out.
Hi Nick,
You: DYING TO DEATH is another strange subject.
Me: I see you made up your mind even before discussing it. Dying to death is in the bible. Probably you wouldn’t understand it. I will start a new post on this and what really is the second death?
You: You find it incredible we do not follow your particular logic?
Logic is uselessness,Me: I can see why a lot what you say doesn’t make sense.
I find it incredible that you do not know the basic premise of Christ’s sacrifice.—that he had not really died for our sins, but slept for our sins. I find it incredible that you think that Christ did not have the holy spirit in him until Jordon, that he was just an ordinary man, etc., etc.
Isa 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD:…
Me: Reason incorporates logic. It is foolhardy to think you do not need to reason along with scripture. Verse upon verse (Isa 28:13) implies God’s inspiration together with your reasoning.
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3198.htm
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3198.htmYou:
Quenching is not losing the holy spirit.
Me:
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_thessalonians/5-19.htm
to extinguish — go out, quench.
Me: When you quench the spirit, it goes out. Who said anything about loss?
Hi Nick,
You,
Yes we are warned to guard the treasure of the Holy Spirit in our vessels.
To taste of the Spirit but not submit to the leading of that Spirit leaves us worse off.Me: You should know
You: And to lose the Spirit is to join those spoken of in Rom 8 who do not have the Spirit and are none of his.
Me: You had said that one cannot lose the holy spirit? You contradict yourself below.
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