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Hi Nick,
You: David pleaded with God that He not take His Spirit from him.
But you think our God does that to all the anointed ones at death?
Or could it be you do not understand the unity that is promised in Jn 17?You: God does not take back His Spirit from those who walk in it.
Those in the bosom of Abraham, and those in Christ sleep.Me: Then why did David plea with God not to take it away. David had just committed horrible sins of adultery and murder of the woman’s husband .
Psalm 51:1 (To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.)…11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
1 Thes 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
Me: Why does Paul admonish the Thessalonians not to quench the holy spirit if it was not possible.
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Me: Why did Christ admonish those in Sardis to repent, for they were in danger of extinguishing the holy spirit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Me: These will face judgment for they had received the spirit but had extinguish it by turning their backs to God. They had reached the point where they could not repent and not lose the holy spirit.
Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Me: You are wrong. Only Christians who endure until to the end are saved. Thus, if they don’t, they will not have the holy spirit in or with them.
You: David pleaded with God that He not take His Spirit from him.
But you think our God does that to all the anointed ones at death?
Or could it be you do not understand the unity that is promised in Jn 17?Me: Those with the spirit of God in them before Pentecost did have the holy spirit depart from them at death. That included the Messiah after he died . When did it return to them? It was after Christ had resurrected and ascended into heaven to be with his father.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/7-60.htm
Acts 7:59 (interlinear version) And as they were stoning Stephen he was calling out and saying Lord Jesus receive the spirit of me: 60 having fallen moreover on his knees he cried with a voice loud ….he fell asleep.
Me: Notice that Stephen called out to Christ to receive “the spirit in me” and not my spirit. The holy spirit has the human mind of Christ in it after his ascension into heaven. It is by man came death, by man came the resurrection from the dead (1 Cor 15:21). We are resurrected into life at baptism by being regenerated of a spirit mind. Our spirit minds are resurrected into heaven at death by the holy spirit. Our minds of the flesh, in the image of our spirit minds, sleep with the body at death. The human spirits and minds of those without the holy spirit cease to exist. They are recreated at judgment.
I had mentioned that the holy spirit goes back to God for those saints that had died in the OT. It was reunited with them after Pentecost. Their minds had been in the book of life.
Job 14:13 that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember
me!Me: If the holy spirit had not left the OT saints, Job would not say “remember me”.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I (3908 entrust or deposit) my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/23-46.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/3908.htm
Luke 23:46 show that the spirit of God was not in the grave with Christ.
3908 paratithémi:
Christ himself had committed the holy spirit to his father:
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Hi Nick
You:
The Soul is not immortal.
It can die in the second death.
mt 10.28Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Me: Everyone’s soul, man or beast will die. There will be one spirit, the holy spirit. All will be in All. You can only worship God in spirit if you have the holy spirit.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
The second death is dying to death. Everyone will. Another topic.
Hi TC,
You have not proven your case. You have not justified your doctrine.
To say that David was concerned that he might lose the Spirit is not proof he did.
To quench the Spirit is not to lose the Spirit. But those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.
Did all the bridesmaids run out of oil in Mt 25? No. But five of the ten did.
We are warned that God expects a return on His investment.
He demands fruit from His vines and His trees.
His Holy Spirit is precious to Him,
and should be to us.
Hi T8,
Do your research before you judge.
And if you find someone has learned something rejoice.
And then wonder why you regard it as a virtue to be infallible and to never learn .
Hi Nick,
The Spirit of Life represents God’s ability to create another living thing. God created us giving us our own spirit, our own mind. God gives our spirit gifts of His Spirit, wisdom, understanding, patience, kindness, goodness. Without God’s mercy giving man these gifts we would be ignorant and foolish.
The Spirit of Life is God’s Spirit, not ours. We are mortals we die, when we have God’s breath of life in us we are alive, when we die that Spirit of Life returns to God who gave it. In the resurrection of the righteous the Spirit of Life brings us back to life again it returns to us, and we have that LIFE for an eternity, sustained through our Creators powers.
To have our Creators Spirit dwelling in us means that our spirit is not carnally minded but spiritually minded, we follow not our own wills or our own ways, we seek God’s ways, His wisdom, His character.
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own devices.
If the created creature governs himself through himself he leads himself to death. If the created creature is governed by the Spirit he has life and peace. Our MIND is a creation it dwells in our BRAIN, and our brain is made up of the elements from the periodic table, when we die it RETURNS to the DUST. Life and peace is held when we are resurrected from the DEAD.
As the prophets and Jesus explained death as sleep, we see Stephen calling upon Jesus to receive his spirit and he fell asleep.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [the Lord], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
WHY is DEATH likened to being asleep? Sleep is a “periodic suspension of consciousness“. There is NO conscious awareness when you are dead, not for anyone. Death is called sleep because we will all awake and be conscious minded again, some awaking to eternal life and some to judgement.
Stephen wanted Jesus to receive his spirit, he was professing his faith as Jesus had said,
24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it
Stephen DIED his next conscious moment is meeting Jesus in the resurrection and receiving eternal life. It will seem like NO TIME has passed for Stephen!! The only TIME that is passing is for the LIVING.
Nick have you ever thought about WHY DEATH is referred to as sleep? Seems like you haven’t at all. Can you comprehend that when you die your next moment of conscious awareness, where it seems to you like NO TIME HAS PASSED whatsoever, you are with Jesus meeting him in the clouds? …or you are waking to judgment?
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Hi Nick:
You wrote:
You have not proven your case. You have not justified your doctrine.
To say that David was concerned that he might lose the Spirit is not proof he did.Me: He could of means he could of whether he did or not. It doesn’t mean he couldn’t of. And I showed you all the scriptures that back up losing the spirit. Do you really believe that those who do not endure to the end can still have the holy spirit in them at the end. Do you really believe that those in Heb 6:4-5 still had the holy spirit? Or what about those in Heb 10:26-29? This is incredible if you do, and you do.
You: To quench the Spirit is not to lose the Spirit. But those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.
Me: To quench the spirit means that you don’t have the spirit anymore. To lose the spirit means you do not have the spirit anymore.
You: Did all the bridesmaids run out of oil in Mt 25? No. But five of the ten did.
We are warned that God expects a return on His investment.Me: the five that ran out of oil did not have the holy spirit any more of the holy spirit. That is why the Lord said to them Matt 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Matt 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. 26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed…30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Me: It is absolutely incredible that you think those unprofitable servants still had the spirit of God in them–incredible.
2 Tim 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Hi TC,
You find it incredible we do not follow your particular logic?
Logic is uselessness, quenching is not loss.
Presumption is not of faith.
Hi TC,
Yes we are warned to guard the treasure of the Holy Spirit in our vessels.
To taste of the Spirit but not submit to the leading of that Spirit leaves us worse off.
And to lose the Spirit is to join those spoken of in Rom 8 who do not have the Spirit and are none of his.
Hi TC,
Matt 7.22
‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?,and in thy name cast out out many demons ?and in thy name done many wonderful works?’
Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me ye who work iniquity.
Hi TC
you say
Those with the spirit of God in them before Pentecost did have the holy spirit depart from them at death. That included the Messiah after he died . When did it return to them? It was after Christ had resurrected and ascended into heaven to be with his father.
Where do these ideas spring from? Are they written?
You would divide the Lord Jesus Christ from the abiding Spirit of life?
When he was proving that death did not take away the eternal life of the anointed ones ?
wierd.
Hi TC,
Yes there are warnings about losing the Spirit.
But you tell us that none can keep the Spirit, even Jesus Christ.
Strange.
Hi Jodi,
Death is a ONLY referred to as SLEEP for the LIVING.
Lazarus will rise with the living, but sleeps in death.
Hi Gene,
The Living do not need to receive the breath of life again at the resurrection.
The Spirit of ETERNAL LIFE resides in their souls even after death.
Nick…. the term sleep used for death does not mean a person is still alive when he died, it is used for referencing the future state of a resurection, that takes place later. Another words that person will not stay “eternally” dead, but it does not mean the person who died is still living after he dies.
Thats your logic talking, because you don’t WANT TO belive people do actually die, even though GOD SAID IT CLEAELY IN SCRIPTURE. WHAT ARE YOU Nick, (the complete you), here is what God the Father said “dust you are, and dust you shall return” , so Nick it’s not me you disagree with here it’s what GOD THE FATHER SAID. Is not what you are saying like what Satan told Eve “you shall no “surely” die”.
Sorry Nick i think i will believe what GOD the Father said, and i really don’t think Jesus counterdicted the Father either.Peace and love to you and yours. …gene
Hi Gene,
God is the God of the Living ones.
They are alive in the eyes of our God.
But not good enough for your human logic?
Hi TC,
It is vital that those reborn of the Spirit feed on the word of life and let it transform their minds to that of Christ.
The still small voice must become greater than our carnal thoughts.
Nick….why mention God when you don’t believe him, it wasn’t me that said “the soul that sins it shall die”, i wasn’t the one who told ADAM AND EVE, “if you eat of the tree of the knowelege of good and evil you shall Surely “DIE” , OR TELL THEM “dust thou art and dust thou shall return”. Plus many scriptures that relate the same message. No Nick, it’s your “logic”, thats turnning all those scriptures around not me, Or others here. Why not just admit you do not believe what God said and leave it at that.
Being alive in “God’s eyes, is one thing, but being still living when you die, as you “assume is quite another. Besides i never said they weren’t still alive “in” God’s eyes, all who are written in the book of life are alive “in God’s eyes” rather living or dead, but are the dead now living, no they are DUST and will remain that way untill they are resurected from their graves, just as scripture says.
Nick it’s your “logic” that’s taking scriptures and parables and trying to make a new doctrines that excludes so many other scriptures, not us.
It’s really rather simple you either except what the Father say or not, you chose not to, because you must think you know more then he does. When the father told Adam and Eve, “Dust though are and dust you shall return”, i believe he truly meant every word he said. You can believe what ever your own logic wants to. I trust what GOD the Father said.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
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