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Jodi said:
Hi t8,
As Gene I believe already pointed out, upon his birth were the people saved from their sins? His birth wiped away our sins? NO! At the river Jesus was BORN of God’s Spirit and then he was sent out to speak the words of God and perform God’s will. He went to the cross being perfected as a human being and then he died, by that death we are set free from our sins.But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid! For behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people: Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord! And this will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.”…
Nick, Jodi, and Gene. You can offer me all the human reasoning in the world as to why Jesus was not the messiah, but all I see and hear from you is Antichrist. But an angel sent by God was the one that spoke the truth of this matter. As you can plainly see, you three are at odds with the heavenly messenger.
As disciples of Christ and children of God, we are not here to change scripture. We are hear to learn the truth in love and believe that which was spoken and written under the inspiration of God. It is up to us to understand it, not to change it. You three do the latter in this matter. You guys might as well rewrite this verse and others because what you teach on this is not was is written on this.
Good Morning t8,
We are not changing scripture, the child that was born was our savior and he is our master. But we were not saved by his birth, he was not anyone’s master when he was a baby.
“She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
He was called a savior because he would be a savior!!
Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Acts 13:”From the descendants of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus,
John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”
1 John 4:We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has SENT me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind,to set the oppressed free, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” 20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Matthew 9:6 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”
He received the authority and power to forgive sins and heal people from his anointing when he was THEN SENT OUT INTO the WORLD!
But his death would bring eternal life!
He is a savior where sins are forgiven, that men could not be held to the penalty of sin which is death, thus bringing the resurrection. This forgiveness occurred because being MADE a perfected man he could not be held to the penalty of death himself, he died paying for our sins, but was resurrected because he was found without sin and not worthy of death.
Acts 5:30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.
Hi t8,
Let me add this as well,
Hebrews 2:10 In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered.
Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
I don’t think the suffering that made Jesus perfect was him going through his mother’s birth canal!
Hebrews 7:28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
T8…YOU saying we are Antichrists, is saying we don’t believe in the anointing of the man Jesus, that is a “lie” We do believe Jesus was anointed with the spirit of God at the jordan river, so how can you say we are antichrists?
Actually you are denying his anionting process, by saying he was born anointed, your beliefs line up with the Gnostic’s , who believed Jesus preexisted his birth as you do, only you don’t know what he was and they said he was a God, but aside from that you believe he was something other then a human being right? A preexisting demigod or angel, or what ever, you have never told us yet what he was as i recall. But none the less you certanily seem to deny his need to be baptized by JOHN the baptist in order to become a messiah or anointed MAN of GOD.
SO IN MY VIEW YOU ARE OF THOSE WHO ARE ANTICHRIST’S, NOT US, becaue we preach the “man” Jesus was indeed “anointed” at the Jordan with the SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD in order for him to do the things he did. You say he was already anointed at birth, therefore you are saying he did not need to be anointed later after his birth, and that does make you ANTICHRIST, that is to say (AGAINST THE ANOINTING PROCESS) of the “MAN” JESUS.
Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
Nick….A living Soul, is described in full in Gen 2:7 that is exactly what a living Soul is. Why are you so desperately truing to change what it “clearly” says?
Your ideas about people still alive when their dead is completely wrong, infact it causes you and others to miss the whole perpose of death. The perpose of death is to teach us that we do have an end, and when we die we have reached that end, we no longer have any power to live, but exist as if we never were alive in that state, for a reason, that reason is once we are resurected, is to know beyond a doubt life and death are indeed in the hands of GOD “ALONE”. That the fear of GOD may exist in us for eternity.
You teaching men still are alive after they die, is a false teaching, no one who has died is still alive, nothing about them still exists, they “only” come alive again when a resurection takes place, and the are restored back to life again.
Forcing a parable to be a literial example is wrong, Jesus used parables so people would not understand the truth, you by taking parable literally, with out understanding there inturputation meanings only shows you lack of spritual insite.
Tell us Nick, is the seeds being sown by the sower really seeds of some grain, that falls on real path ways m or real rocks, or real ground. No that is not what the parable is saying, it is a metaphor, a symbolic anology. A parable is a “fictious illustrations ” used to imply hidden spritual truths.
They are not to be taken in a ‘literal sense’, what they “represent” is to be taken as literal spritual truths.
What do you think Jesus meant when he said he spoke to people in parables so that hearing they hear not and seening they see not. He used parables to hid the true meanings of things.
Jodi is right you are simple adding your own meanings to simple clear and straight forward scriptures denying the truth written in them, accusing people who don’t see things as you do as spritual blind, while all along you may be the one that lacks some spritual insite.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
Sowers really do sow seeds. Fishermen really do catch fish.
No FICTION there or elsewhere in scripture as God cannot lie.
Jesus taught in parables from reality and you should try to listen .
Hi Gene,
Any more FICTION you have found in scripture?
Man is a LIVING SOUL.
When he loses his spirit he is still a soul and the waiting places in the earth are taught about by Jesus.
Did Jonah die?
Hi Gene,
The OT is replete with many teachings about Sheol or Hades and Jesus enlarged on these.
Have you rejected the OT as well?
Hi Gene,
If you do not understand life you will not understand death.
But the scriptures will help you if you do not lean on your own understanding.
NICK….what i am saying the story is not to be taken as what Jesus is talking about, yes a man can go out into a field and sow seed and yes the seed can fall at different places, but that story was not what Jesus was talking about, it’s a metaphor to illustrate a spritual principle. The story is designed to through people off, Who can’t see the true meaning of what Jesus was talking about.
Please tell me your not so ignorant you don’t understand that. Jesus was not talking about a person actually sowing some kind of physical seed in a field,he was taking about sowing the word of GOD IN THE WORLD, and how some recieve it and bring forth spritual fruit, and some do not bring forth spritual fruit.
Those who have the spirit can see exactly what JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT, we all know that, but those who don’t have spiritual eyes , think he is talking about a person actually going around with a bag od seeds sowing it in a qctual field. Parables are not given to make things clear, as Jesus plainly said, it’s to throw off the blind spiritually speaking. Please tell me you do understand that.
Remember Jesus said ‘unto you, his apostles the knowledge of the kingdom of God has been given , to other in parables that seening they see not, and hearing they hear not.
Now have i made myself clear to you?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
Yes Jesus illustrated his parables wth factual matters that folks know about.
Do you not know of Hades?
Hi Gene,
Determination to prove facts are FICTION will not change the eternal truth of scripture.
God does not lie.
Hi Gene,
The challenge of Lk 16 for you is that if Jesus was speaking the truth, as he was,
your whole foundation of scriptural understanding is shown to be false.
You have to rethink
man
soul
spirit
life
death.
resurrection
etc
You have trusted your instincts and your ideology for too long. Come back to truth.
The Son of God has been The Savior since before the foundation of the world. Many believed in the Messiah long before He came as a child born to them.
Psalm 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”
Hi LU,
Ps 110
The Lord WILL stretch forth your strong sceptre from Zion, saying
’Rule in the midst of your enemies’
Your people WILL volunteer freely IN THE DAY OF YOUR POWER;
Yes the millennial reign of God through His Son WILL BE mighty.
You do realise this has yet to happen?
Nick,
It is the saving faith in the Messiah that saves a man regardless of the time frame, the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. Some in the OT had a saving faith in the Messiah before He even came to earth as the promised child. So when Jesus, the babe is proclaimed by angels to be the Savior, He had already been saving many. People looked for His appearing back then. We look for His appearing again.
Hebrews 5
The Perfect High Priest
1For every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of men in things pertaining to God, in order to offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins; 2he can deal gently with the ignorant and misguided, since he himself also is beset with weakness; 3and because of it he is obligated to offer sacrifices for sins, as for the people, so also for himself. 4And no one takes the honor to himself, but receives it when he is called by God, even as Aaron was.
5So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to Him,
“YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”;6just as He says also in another passage,
“YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”7In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, 10being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
11Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. 14But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
The meaning of ‘perfect’
Hebrews 5:9-10
Hebrews 5:9 contains the same ideas as Hebrews 2:10. Because Jesus suffered, he became perfect. And so he leads all the people whom God is saving.
But the idea that Jesus ‘became perfect’ may seem strange. Jesus is God; so he has always been perfect. However, the word ‘perfect’ has more than one meaning.
We see one meaning in Matthew 5:48. Our Father, God in heaven, is perfect. That means ‘without anything evil in him’. We see another meaning in Hebrews 5:14. There, it means someone who has become mature. That person is not still a little child; he eats solid food, not just milk.
That second meaning is closer to the meaning in Hebrews 5:9. Christ had become mature – he had developed in his relationship with God. He had passed the test – he had proved himself completely loyal to God.
Jesus has always been God’s Son. But something new happened when he died on the cross. He became the leader or captain of the people who have faith (active belief and trust in God) – Hebrews 2:10. And he became the person who completed our faith. That word ‘completed’ is another meaning of ‘mature’ or ‘perfect’. We see both these ideas together in Hebrews 12:2. In fact, we can read that verse to say that ‘Jesus is the beginning and end of our faith’.
Jesus used the same word on the cross, in his declaration that his work was complete (John 19:30). It was perfect.
But that work was only perfect because God had appointed Jesus to be our chief priest. It was only perfect when Jesus completed his work as our chief priest.
But Jesus was not a chief priest by the laws that God gave to Israel. His work as chief priest had a much more ancient origin. Psalm 110:4 explains that origin.
Nick you said in response to this question “Who do you say Jesus is?”:
Yes Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Not God the son and not God.
Those are just idolatrous inventions of carnal men
It was the carnal man that said that He was just a prophet.
Matt 16:13Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
The revelation that Jesus is the Christ is the Son of the living God is revealed by the Father of Jesus. The fact that He was a prophet was not the revealed truth that the church was built on, although He was the promised prophet, He is also and foremost, the Christ, the Son of God.
Nick, your idea of the Son of God is far different than One that would be the exact representation of the nature of His Father. Only a true begotten Son would have the exact representation of the nature of God His Father, not a created son.
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