Firstborn of/over all creation

Viewing 20 posts - 2,761 through 2,780 (of 3,677 total)
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  • #832544
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    I know that you do not accept that Jesus was a vessel for God because you think he that he is a god.

    But after the Jordan he is said to be full of the Spirit. Lk4.1

    And 2 Cor 5.19 tells us God was IN Christ.

    Vessels are containers. 2tim 2

    Perhaps you do not see men as vessels but then you do not believe he is a man.2 Cor 4.7

    #832545
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    So God took a woman’s ovum and somehow formed a body for the Spirit to dwell in?

    So was this body actually male coming from just the genes of a woman?

    Was this man created without a human soul and spirit?

    #832546
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Nick,

    you asked:

    So God took a woman’s ovum and somehow formed a body for the Spirit to dwell in?

    Do you expect Him to use her rib? It would not be impossible. We aren’t really told how God prepared the male body for the eternal Spirit of the Son to dwell in but we are told that He did and it was of the seed of David. It was said of Mary that she conceived. I believe that it is safe to assume that involved her ovum. I know that the ovum only contributes an X chromosome but if God can make a man out of clay, I don’t believe that it would be impossible for Him to make a man out of an ovum. He made a woman out of a man’s rib.

    Was this man created without a human soul and spirit? The body was as human as Adam’s body, the eternal Spirit of the Son was brought forth to dwell in the body as the spirit of the body.

    #832547
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Nick,

    you said:

    But after the Jordan he is said to be full of the Spirit. Lk4.1

    And 2 Cor 5.19 tells us God was IN Christ.

    21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are IN me and I am IN you. May they also be IN us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I IN them and you IN me—so that they may be brought to complete unity.

    We see here that the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and believers are IN them. Everyone is a vessel it seems. The Father is a vessel for the Son and believers. Hmmm…think about that one.

    #832548
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    Yes God can do anything.

    But fitting in with your vivid imagination would be a challenge.

    #832550
    Anthony
    Participant

    Hi Nick

    Scriptures like this Nick? the prophets seem to say He is like the Prophet to come.

     

    and declare the works of the Lord God”

    Deuteronomy 18 and Psalms 118

    Deuteronomy 18:18, Torah
    [God said to Moses,] “I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like you [Moses], and will put My words in his mouth; and he will speak to them all that I will command him.”

    John 12:49 – 50, Gospel
    [And thus Jesus said,] “I have not spoken of myself; but the Father who sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.  And I know that His commandment is life everlasting; whatever I speak therefore, even as the Father said to me, so I speak.”

    Acts 3:22 – 23, Gospel
    [Thus] Moses truly said to the fathers, “The Lord your God will raise up a prophet to you from your brothers, like me; you will hear him in all things whatsoever he will say to you.  And it will come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, will be destroyed from among the people.”

    Deuteronomy 18:19 – 20, Torah
    [For God had said to Moses,] “It will come to pass, [that] whoever will not hear My words which he will speak in My name, I will require [it] from him.  But the prophet, who will presume to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who will speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet will die.”

    Mark 12:10 – 11, Gospel
    [And thus Jesus said,] “Have you not read this Scripture; ‘The stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner.  This was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?'”

    Psalms 118:17 – 23, Torah
    [It reads,] I will not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord [God].  The Lord [God] has chastened me sore, but He has not given me over to death.  Open the gates of righteousness to me, I will go into them, [and] I will praise the Lord [God].  This gate of the Lord [God], into which the righteous will enter.  I will praise You [O God], for You have heard me, and have become my salvation.  The stone [which] the builders refused has become the head of the corner.  This is the Lord [God’s] doing; it [is] marvelous in our eyes.

    Psalms 41:2, Torah
    [And thus] the Lord [God] will preserve him, and keep him alive; [and] he will be blessed upon the earth, and You will not deliver him to the will of his enemies.

    1 Chronicles 16:22, Torah
    [For God said], “Do not touch My anointed [ones], and do My prophets no harm.”

    Psalms 20:6, Torah
    [So] now I know that the Lord [God] saves His Messiah; He will hear him from His holy heaven with the saving strength of His right hand.

    Psalms 28:8, Torah
    [Thus] the Lord [God is] their strength, and He [is] the saving strength of His Messiah.

    Luke 24:44, Gospel
    [So Jesus] said to them, “These [are] the words which I spoke to you, while I was with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the Psalms, concerning me.”

    God bless Nick

    #832552
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning LU,

    The human spirit is his mind, his character, his thoughts, his knowledge, his beliefs and understandings and it dwells within the HUMAN BRAIN of which Jesus had. This human brain God placed His Spirit upon. This human brain is what processes the desires of the flesh and where temptation comes and Jesus was able to deny that temptation through God’s Spirit, not through having a pre-existing spirit.

    What you say destroys the gospel!! 

    Jesus is our example to what God can accomplish in a human spirit. We look to God to help our spirit with temptation, and we have faith in God because we know it worked for Jesus. Jesus said that he could do nothing of himself, this is because he had a human spirit, he declared that he could do nothing of himself, AFTER the Spirit descended upon him. After the Spirit of God was working in Jesus his human spirit was sent out to be tested.  To say that Jesus was flesh but had the spirit of a pre-existing son is completely antichrist.

    Christ means a human spirit anointed with God’s Spirit. We likewise want God to anoint our spirit with His as He did Jesus. This is WHY Jesus is our example, this is why Jesus is our true brother, this is why Jesus is our MEDIATOR, and is able to be a righteous judge over us, as he had a spirit that could be tempted just like us, he knows what it was like.

    As a human being Jesus had NO ADVANTAGE over us, he was like us in EVERY WAY, the only difference is that God GAVE him the Spirit without measure. We want the gifts of the Spirit as well. But if you say that Jesus did not have a human spirit, then like I said, you destroy the gospel, the good news that God will make us as He did Jesus, and that is to anoint a human spirit with that of God’s and to GIVE eternal life to us as He did Jesus. Jesus is the firstborn of the dead, the first to rise from the sleep of death, many are to follow and be as he currently is. To say anything otherwise destroys the good news spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15.

    #832556
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Anthony, good post brother. You are comming to see JESUS as a human being just as we are, who as we recived the anointing spirit from his God and our God , his father and our father. Bless you brother.

    Peace and love to you and yours……gene

    #832557
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi…. You nailed it, PERFECTLY EXPLAINED, Your last post is exactly right, We were made exactly as he was in every way at birth, and in the resurection, He is our (exact) example of how to be at one with the FATHER. The firstborn of (MANY BROTHERS) from the grave, in the, (FAMILY OF GOD).

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #832560
    Jodi
    Participant

    Absolutely an amazing post from you Anthony!!

    #832561
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Anthony,

    Well done in your study of the OT.

    Yes having found he is a prophet should help you see he was not divine, unless you think all prophets are divine.

    This blessed and holy man was given the fullness of the Spirit, above all other prophets.

    And like other High Priests, he is taken from among the people.

     

     

    #832562
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    The Spirit given to natural men returns to God at death, but the soul awaits judgement.

    Why do you not use the word SOUL as scripture uses it?

     

    The human brain does not feature in scripture does it, so should we add our ideas to what is written?

    #832567
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,

    As a matter of fact both spirit and soul are used interchangeably to represent life and the mind. I have given this to you before and it is NOT MY IDEA!! It is how they are defined using the lexicon and as well it can be readily scene in the scriptures.

    What on earth do you mean the brain does not feature into scripture???? How else would Jesus know to choose the good from the evil? How about, “5 Let this MIND be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus”. The mind of Jesus had to be filled with the Spirit of wisdom, knowledge, understanding etc…

    Our MIND lives in our brain, when our body dies, our brain dies, and when our brain dies we no longer learn,have thoughts, feelings, or desires, we do not decide, plan, act, hear, see, smell, taste, touch, or speak. There is no behavior good nor bad, we are DEAD.

    OT  soul   nepesh

    soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
    that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
    living being
    living being (with life in the blood)
    the man himself, self, person or individual
    seat of the appetites
    seat of emotions and passions
    activity of mind
    dubious
    activity of the will
    dubious
    activity of the character
    dubious

    OT spirit  ruwach

    wind, breath, mind, spirit
    breath
    wind
    of heaven
    quarter (of wind), side
    breath of air
    air, gas
    vain, empty thing
    spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
    spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
    courage
    temper, anger
    impatience, patience
    spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
    disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
    prophetic spirit
    spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
    as gift, preserved by God, God’s spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
    spirit (as seat of emotion)
    desire
    sorrow, trouble
    spirit
    as seat or organ of mental acts
    rarely of the will
    as seat especially of moral character
    Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
    as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
    as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
    imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
    as endowing men with various gifts
    as energy of life
    as manifest in the Shekinah glory
    never referred to as a depersonalised force

    NT soul   psuche

    breath
    the breath of life
    the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing 1a
    of animals 1a
    of men
    life
    that in which there is life
    a living being, a living soul
    the soul
    the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
    the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
    the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

    NT spirit    pneuma

      1. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \\Holy\\ Spirit)
      2. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \\Truth\\)
      3. never referred to as a depersonalised force
    1. the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
      1. the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
      2. the soul

    ALSO,

    OT heart/mind  leb

    inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding
    inner part, midst
    midst (of things)
    heart (of man)
    soul, heart (of man)
    mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
    inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
    conscience
    heart (of moral character)
    as seat of appetites
    as seat of emotions and passions 1a
    as seat of courage

    OT heart/mind    lebab

    inner man, mind, will, heart, soul, understanding
    inner part, midst
    midst (of things)
    heart (of man)
    soul, heart (of man)
    mind, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory
    inclination, resolution, determination (of will)
    conscience
    heart (of moral character)
    as seat of appetites
    as seat of emotions and passions

    NT  heart   kardia

    the heart
    that organ in the animal body which is the centre of the circulation of the blood, and hence was regarded as the seat of physical life
    denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life
    the vigour and sense of physical life
    the centre and seat of spiritual life
    the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours
    of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence
    of the will and character
    of the soul so far as it is affected and stirred in a bad way or good, or of the soul as the seat of the sensibilities, affections, emotions, desires, appetites, passions
    of the middle or central or inmost part of anything, even though inanimate

    Nick, the soul that sins shall die according to Jesus. This is because when a person dies their LIFE ceases to exist in every way, that is what death is, and thus all their plans and thoughts likewise perish. As a mortal you cannot ESCAPE sin nor death, the fear of death has us in chains it has us bound, the wicked go to the grave in chains, as there is NO ESCAPE when they are going down to the grave, and there is no escape when they rise from the dead and have to face the second death.

    21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;

    DEATH is a land of darkness, it is empty/void, no thoughts no feelings no desires, NO MIND.

    Those who went down to the land of darkness did so in chains, there is no escaping death, and when they arise they are still in their chains as the shall fear the second death.

    15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

    Those that died having the promise are raised to eternal life, they are FREE from sin and from death not held in chains by it.

    #832587
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You really think that the mind is dependant on the body to function?

    No mind and heart are of the soul. Their function is not lost by the death of the human body.

    The rich man died but was able to understand his situation in Hades. Nathan was awakened but still able to converse.

     

     

    #832591
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You do not seem to understand the gift of eternal life that God gives to the anointed ones.

    The first death has no power over the soul and a soul enlivened by the eternal Spirit cannot suffer the second death.

    #832594
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    Body and soul can be destroyed in the second death, the lake of fire. Matt 10.28

    #832596
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Yes, God is in the business of saving souls as the soul can be destroyed. But the spirit goes back to God who gave it.

    #832597
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    A million words and a thousand lexicons do not create truth.

    It is revealed.

    #832598
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    But if the word revealed opposes scripture, then the source of the revelation is in question.

    #832599
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You seem to believe that when you say something it should be taken on board as irrefutable truth.

    But you do not even believe in Satan and the kingdom of darkness!

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