- This topic has 3,676 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by
.
- Posts
Well Gene i think it’s time to do another study on the Gnostics. there many groups of them . What I send was the first hundred years.
God bless.. you don’t have to believe that, like you don’t believe in alot of scriptures that talk about the pre-existed of Jesus Christ and that He was Divine and man both.
Anthony and LU,
I want to take from my last post and highlight the topic of the last section John 8 and I hope that you can read through the entirety of the post and then respond.
In John 8 we read Jesus saying that the Pharisees to not understand him, they hear not and see not, they misunderstand what he says.
We see in the beginning of John 8, that Jesus will respond to them, “as though he heard them not.”
KEEP that in mind, and watch yourself that you are not misunderstanding Jesus and thinking just like a blind Pharisee.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
They did not understand what Jesus was talking about, and asked a question through their misunderstanding.
When Jesus spoke verse 56 he was NOT declaring that he had seen Abraham, Jesus was telling them that Abraham had seen him through God giving him a view of the future Christ, and he saw it and was glad.
Not understanding this at all, but thinking Jesus was saying that he had seen Abraham, they asked him the below question.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus responds continuing to speak as to HOW Abraham saw the future Christ, which what Abraham saw was the FREEDOM Jesus was speaking of prior in this chapter. He saw Jesus’s day and was glad. Abraham DID NOT see Jesus as a pre-existing son in the past, he saw him as his OWN SEED bringing FREEDOM unto men.
All agree that Abraham is dead. What they did not understand is how Abraham saw Jesus, and if Abraham saw Jesus, they were confused as they were thinking that Jesus was saying that he saw Abraham. But Jesus was saying NO such thing, he was talking about the resurrection of which Abraham saw, and he responds talking about the resurrection, he is not responding to them telling them he pre-existed, but how it was exactly that Abraham saw him before he died, which is that BEFORE Abraham arises, Jesus arises.
John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
John 11: 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And thus,
BEFORE Abraham arises I am
Before Abraham becomes (of the resurrection) I AM the resurrection. Though Abraham were dead he shall live.
was transliterated word,
Ginomai
- to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
- to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
- of events
- to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
- of men appearing in public
- to be made, finished
- of miracles, to be performed, wrought
- to become, be made
To turn a message of Jesus declaring that he IS the resurrection, and Abraham saw his day, to a message of pre-existence makes you just like a Pharisee a blind fool.
One thing we know for sure is that the Pharisees had a very difficult time understanding Jesus, they misunderstood him quite often, and Jesus knew it, and would even respond to them as if he did not hear them, of which we are TOLD at the beginning of this chapter.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
BEFORE Abraham was to LIVE AGAIN, Jesus was to die and LIVE AGAIN, and in order for Abraham to live again Jesus had to pay for the sins of men through his death. Abraham saw Jesus’s day, he saw the freedom and the life and was glad.
You folks want to ignore verse 56 or maybe you’d like to understand it as the Pharisees did having NO COMPREHENSION to Jesus’s words.
You likewise want to ignore the entire context of the chapter (this is your motto, pulling a verse, misinterpreting it to make it fit your doctrine, and denying the entire context and true message) where Jesus is telling the Pharisees that he FREES men, as they could not comprehend that either.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou,Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
BEFORE Abraham was to reap of the freedom Jesus says I AM -the RESURRECTION
Hi Jodi
Here are some different translation.
1 Timothy 3:16 New Matthew Bible (NMB)
16 And there is no denying, great is the mystery of godliness: God was shown in the flesh, was confirmed in the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached to the Gentiles, was believed on in earth, and received up in glory
1 Timothy 3:16 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
16 Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He[a] was revealed in flesh,
vindicated[b] in spirit,[c]
seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory1 Timothy 3:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 And without controversy great is the [a]mystery of godliness:
God[b] was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory1 Timothy 3:16 Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)
16 and, confessedly, great is the secret of piety — God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory!
1 Timothy 3:16 Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
16 And openly it is a great sacrament of piety, that thing that was showed in flesh, it is justified in Spirit [And openly it is a great sacrament of piety, that that is showed in flesh, is justified in Spirit], it appeared to angels, it is preached to heathen men, it is believed in the world, it is taken up into glory.
LU, please read my post above in it’s entirety and then respond,
You said, “I believe that Jesus was saying that He existed before Abraham existed and I would not be among the Pharisees throwing stones, I understand that He is claiming to be the actual, same in essence, Son of God who pre-existed Abraham. The Pharisees did not understand THAT. You don’t understand that.”
LU aren’t you actually saying that the Pharisees did understood him correctly but they did not believe it to be true?
Hi Anthony,
You say JESUS CHRIST IS DIVINE.
We know from 2 Cor 5.19 that God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself.
But you believe GOD WAS IN GOD?
Sounds like a gnostic idea.
The Gnostics believe they own knowledge that is not written.
What you say is not written and it does not align with what is written.??
Hi Anthony,
Phil 2.13
‘for it is God Who is at work in you, both to will and to do for His good pleasure’
If 2 Cor 5.19 means that Jesus is divine surely this must mean that the brothers are divine too?
Wander off the path of truth and nothing aligns anymore.
2 Jn 9
‘Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not have God’
Hi Jodi
IS JESUS GOD? – PART 1
Does John 1:1 say Jesus is God?
John 1:1 says, “(a) In the beginning was the Word, (b) and the Word was with [the] God, (c) and the Word was God.”
That this Divine Word is none other than Jesus Christ is shown by verse 14, “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1a says the Word was in the beginning, but the beginning of what? It has to be the beginning of something. Was it the beginning of this world? Was it the beginning of the creation of the angels? Whichever beginning you place it at, it has to be the beginning of something.
Many Trinitarians use this to say that Christ has always been, and had no beginning. But that is not what the verse says. God had no beginning and has always existed! Also the Word “with” has to mean something. The Word was “with” God. They cannot be the same being, or one could not be with the other. As John 1:2 NIV says, “He [Jesus] was with God in the beginning.”
The proper rendering of John 1:1 into English from the original Koine Greek text continues to be a source of vigorous debate among Bible translators, and especially the phrase the Word was God (c). The first verse of John’s Gospel says that God’s Son Christ Jesus, being referred to as the Word here, was with God in the beginning, (a+b). John 1:1b does not say that the Messiah is God but was with “the” God. It is important to note that the word “the” exists in the Greek text and was left out by translators as they probably thought it read wrong, but it is correct and has purpose. Here is the original Greek text for (1b).
και and 2532 CONJ ο the 3588 T-NSMλογος Word 3056 N-NSM ην was 2258 V-IXI-3S προς with 4314 PREPτον the 3588 T-ASM θεον God 2316N-ASMThe phrase “the God” identifies the one true God the Father in this verse and so the word “the” is important. While Jesus is called God in this verse, there is a clear distinction between Him and “the” God whom He was with. The God whom Jesus was with is “the” God the Father. Jesus was not the same God He was with but rather Jesus was God in the sense of being divine just like His Father, as being the Son, He inherits the characteristics of His Father. The Father is God and so His Son is God by nature just as any human by inheritance possesses the very nature and form of humanity.
One can better understand John 1:1 by using the same grammatical structure but with different subjects such as Adam and Eve for example. “In the beginning was the woman, and the woman was with [the] human, and the woman was human.” Adam is “the human” and the woman is Eve, but Eve is also human by nature but Eve is not “the human” in identity. They are two separate persons.
Look at this again with this perspective in mind. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the Deity, and the Word was Deity.” The Word, the Son was with the supreme Deity the Father, and the Word was Deity in nature. But the Son was not “the” Deity, the Son was not “the” Father, yet the Son has the Father’s divine nature by inheritance. The Word has the same God quality, the same divine nature and the same God-ness as His Father.
Thus Jesus was with God in the beginning, but He is not “the” God the Father but God by inheritance and nature being the Son. He is God because He is the Son of God. It is that simple.
“Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. He was begotten, not created. HE IS OF THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER, SO THAT IN HIS VERY NATURE HE IS GOD; and since this is so “it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.” Col. 1:19 … While both are of the same nature, the Father is first in point of time. He is also greater in that he had no beginning, while Christ’s personality had a beginning.”
Hi Anthony,
You just show the futility of trying to grasp spiritual things with natural logic.
The carnal mind is far too easily satisfied.
Dig deeper.
Hi Jodi
IS JESUS GOD? – PART 2
Why Did the Father Call His Son God?
In Hebrews 1:1-9 we note that the speaker is God the Father and that He is addressing His Son and calling Him “God.”
Verse 2 says that Christ was “appointed heir” of all things. An “HEIR” of course is someone who receives an “inheritance” from someone. In this case Christ the Son received an “INHERITANCE” from His Father.
But what did He receive?
His “NAME,” His authority and His power! In other words, Jesus being the one and only begotten Son of the living God received by virtue of His birth all of the attributes that His Father possessed.
Verse 4 says, “Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by “INHERITANCE” obtained a more excellent “NAME” than they.” Verse 8 says that this more excellent “NAME” is the name “God,” which was given by the Father to His Son. “Unto the Son He [God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever.”
And so this name “He has by “INHERITANCE.” It is not a “NAME” that was bestowed but a “NAME” that was “INHERITED” from His Father.
Christ not only inherited His name but other things as well. Name means authority (Mark 11:9, John 5:43), and it also means character and nature (Exodus 33:18-19, Exodus 34:5-6). The name Adam means human for example. When people have children, they not only inherit the name of their parents but they also inherit the nature of the parents, which of course is human nature. In like manner, Jesus inherited the same name as His Father, just as a child inherits the name of the parents, and He also inherits the nature of His Father, which is His divine nature.
Christ also inherits His Father’s life. “For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given to the Son to have life in himself.” John 5:26. If Jesus had always existed alongside the Father as the Trinity doctrine claims, then God could not have given life to His Son as He would have always had life. But Scripture reveals this is impossible.
Thus there is only “ONE” true God. Jesus is “NOT” the God, He is the “Son of God.” He carries the “NAME” of God by virtue of His “INHERITANCE.” And because He is the Son of God, He is “EQUAL” with God.
“This name [God] was not given to Christ in consequence of some great achievement, but it is His by right of inheritance.
Speaking of the power and greatness of Christ, the writer to the Hebrews says that He is made so much better than the angels, because “He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.” Heb. 1:4.
A son always rightfully takes the name of the father; and Christ, as “the only begotten Son of God,” has rightfully the same name.
A son, also, is, to a greater or less degree, a reproduction of the father; he has, to some extent, the features and personal characteristics of his father; not perfectly, because there is no perfect reproduction among mankind. But there is no imperfection in God, or in any of His works; and so Christ is the “express image” of the Father’s person. Heb. 1:3.
As the Son of the self-existent God, he has by nature all the attributes of Deity.
It is true that there are many sons of God; but Christ is the “only begotten Son of God,” and therefore the Son of God in a sense in which no other being ever was, or ever can be.
The angels are sons of God, as was Adam (Job 38:7; Luke 3:38), by creation; Christians are the sons of God by adoption (Rom. 8:14,15);
but CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD BY BIRTH.
The writer to the Hebrews further shows that the position of the Son of God is not one to which Christ has been elevated, but that it is one which He has by right.”Hi jodi
IS JESUS GOD? – PART 3
Did Jesus Say that He is the Father?
In John 10:30, Christ proclaimed, “I and my Father are one.”
This would have to be the most misquoted and misunderstood verse used by Trinitarians. Many conclude that this means Jesus and the Father are the same being as per the Trinity doctrine.
Some of the confusion regarding the number of beings comes from a misunderstanding of the word “one.” Simply put, “one” in the Bible does not always mean numerical quantity. Depending on the Scripture, “one” often means unity.
We see this principle established very early in Scripture. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Genesis 2:24. “One flesh” here does not mean that a married couple melt into one human after their wedding, but rather they are to be united into one family. Romans 12:5 says, “So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.”
So does that make us all one single Christian? You would have to say yes if you follow the Trinitarian formula!
We do not have to speculate what Jesus meant in John 10:30 when He said He and His Father are one, because the words of Christ further on in John reveal exactly what He meant.
Christ meant one in unity as He prayed that His disciples might be one in the same way He and His Father are one. This prayer did not contemplate one disciple with twelve heads, but twelve disciples working together in unity.
“And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be onejust as WE ARE ONE:” John 17:22
“Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom you have given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE.” John 17:11
“Christ prayed that his followers might be one as he and the Father were one.
Since the Trinity doctrine teaches 3 co-equal beings, then according to this doctrine, John 10:30 should have said, “I and my Father and the Holy Spirit are one.” But not so. There are three powers but only two literal beings.
“HE [CHRIST] WAS NOT THE FATHERbut in him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,”
“The unity that exists between Christ and His disciples does not destroy the personality of either. They are one in purpose, in mind, in character, BUT NOT IN PERSON. It is thus that God and Christ are one.
Hi Jodi
Does John 14:9 Mean Jesus is the Father?
In John 14:9 Jesus said “He that has seen me has seen the Father.” Did Christ mean He was the Father or that He was “the express image of His Father,” and so has the same nature, attributes and glory? In other words, he that sees one, sees the other: Below are comments from two theologians.
John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible on John 14:9 says:
“He that hath seen me; not with the eyes of his body, but with the eyes of his understanding; he that has beheld the perfections of the Godhead in me:
Hath seen the Father; the perfections which are in him also; for the same that are in me are in him, and the same that are in him are in me: I am the very IMAGE of him, and am possessed of the same nature, attributes, and glory, that he is; so that he that sees the one, sees the other:”Christ is the express image of His Father. 2 Corinthians 4:4 “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible on 2 Corinthians 4:4 says:
“Who is the image of God – Christ is called the image of God:
(1) In respect to his divine nature, his exact resemblance to God in his divine attributes and perfections; see Col_1:15; and Heb_1:3; and,
(2) In his moral attributes as Mediator, as showing forth the glory of the Father to people. He “resembles” God, and in him we see the divine glory and perfections embodied, and shine forth.
It is from his “resemblance” to God in all respects that he is called his image; and it is through him that the divine perfections are made known to people. It is an object of special dislike and hatred to Satan that the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on people, and fill their hearts. Satan hates that image; he hates that people should become like God; and he hates all that has a resemblance to the great and glorious Yahweh.”Colossians 1:15 “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:”
Hebrews 1:3 “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;”
A son is to a greater or less degree a reproduction of his father. He has to some extent the features and personal characteristics of his father. Not perfectly of course because there is no perfect reproduction among mankind. But there is no imperfection in God or in any of His works, and so Christ is the “express image” of the Father’s person.
Thus Jesus was saying He is the express image of His Father and has the same nature, attributes and glory. Christ could not have meant literally of course as Scripture informs us that, “No man has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.” 1 John 4:12. Only Christ has seen the only true God the Father. “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He [Jesus] who is from God; He has seen the Father.” John 6:46
“Christ emphatically impressed on the disciples the fact that they could see the Father by faith only. GOD CANNOT BE SEEN IN EXTERNAL FORM BY ANY HUMAN BEING. Christ alone can represent the Father to humanity;[John 14:9)
According to the trinity teaching, this verse should have said, “He who has seen Me has seen the Father and the Holy Spirit.” But not so. While there are three powers, there are only two literal beings. The third is their Spirit.
Hi Jodi
IS JESUS GOD? – PART 5
Does Being the Alpha and the Omega Mean Jesus is God?
Some claim that the words Alpha and Omega found in Revelation 1:8, 21:6 and 22:13 means that Christ is without beginning or end, but it does not say that. It says that Christ is the beginning and the end of something. Not only that, but a BEGINNING is the origin of something and an END is the termination of something. Since when does “always” have a beginning and what good is eternal life if it has an end?
Many Christians have the wrong concept of the word beginning in Scripture. Remember that God had no beginning and has always existed. The “Alpha” is the “first” letter of the Greek Alphabet and hence is the “beginning” of the Alphabet, and “Omega” is the “last” letter of the Greek Alphabet and hence is the “end” of the Alphabet. So these terms are simply referring to the beginning and to the end of something, but what?
Note that every single verse with a reference to the Alpha and Omega without fail follows a reference to the second coming of Christ and the “end” of this world. This is not a coincidence. Christ created this world and brought about its beginning, and He will be there in its end at His second coming and will bring about its destruction. Thus Christ is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
Revelation 1:7-8 “Behold, HE COMETH WITH CLOUDS; AND EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 21:1-6 “And I SAW A NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. … 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, the beginning and the end.”
Revelation 22:12-13 “And, BEHOLD, I COME QUICKLY; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
So we find a reference to the end of this world and the second coming of Christ before the words in question. That is too much evidence to be coincidental. And since we are at the end of the Bible and dealing with the end, then that is why these verses only refer to the “end.” So if the “end” is referring to the end of this world than the “beginning” obviously refers to be the beginning of this world, which we find in the beginning of the Bible such as Genesis 1:1 and references to the first chapter of Genesis. So everything we have looked at so far reveals that these verses are referring to the second coming of Christ and the end of this world.
Note Clarke’s Commentary on Revelation 1:8 and how these words were used and understood by the Jews. Did they see these words to mean that Christ has always existed and is God? This of course would also contradict Proverbs 8 that says Christ was brought forth and so would not be possible anyway.
Adam Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible. Adam Clarke
“This mode of speech is borrowed from the Jews, who express the whole compass of things by א aleph and ת tau, the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet; but as St. John was writing in Greek, he accommodates the whole to the Greek alphabet, of which Α alpha and Ω omega are the first and last letters. With the rabbins מאועדת meeleph vead tau, “from aleph to tau,” expressed the whole of a matter, from the beginning to the end. So in Yalcut Rubeni, fol. 17, 4: Adam transgressed the whole law from aleph to tau; i.e., from the beginning to the end.
Ibid., fol. 48, 4: Abraham observed the law, from aleph to tau; i.e., he kept it entirely, from beginning to end.
Ibid., fol. 128, 3: When the holy blessed God pronounced a blessing on the Israelites, he did it from aleph to tau; i.e., he did it perfectly.”So as the Jews understood on the meaning of these words, from the beginning and first book of the Bible to the end and last book of the Bible, Jesus encompasses all things. Thus the Jews who actually knew the meaning of these words disagree with the claim made by Trinitarians. The beginning and the end referred to in these passages is the beginning of this created world, while the end is the second coming of Christ and the end of this world, when a New Heaven and Earth are created. Christ brought about the beginning of this world and He also brings about its end. Barnes Commentary on Revelation 22:13 also confirms what Scripture reveals in this respect.
Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible. Albert Barnes (1798-1870)
“The idea here is, that he will thus show that he is the first and the last – the beginning and the end. He originated the whole plan of salvation, and he will determine its close; he formed the world, and he will wind up its affairs.”“Christ says, “I am the true witness. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
“even FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION. Christ is the Alpha, the first link, and the Omega, the last link, of the gospel chain, which is welded in Revelation.”
“And so the statement that He is the beginning or head of the creation of God means that IN HIM CREATION HAD ITS BEGINNING; that, as He Himself says, He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Rev. 21:6; 22:13. He is the source whence all things have their origin.”
Considering these verses in Revelation that state the beginning and the end are referring to the creating and beginning of this world, consider now Genesis 1:1, John 1:1-3 and Hebrews 1:10.
Genesis 1:1 “In the BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth.” [The Beginning]
Compare with:
Revelation 21:1 “I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;” [The End]John 1:1-3 “In the BEGINNING was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He [Jesus] was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”
Hebrews 1:10 “And, You, Lord, in the BEGINNING have laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
I think that’s enough for now Jodi I have more. God bless Jodi.
Anthony. …Bginning and the end can also apply to the fact, JESUS, IS THE FIRST Of God’s purpose for all humanity, he is also the end of that purpose for all human kind. Jesus is the firstborn, OF MANY BRETHERN. Scriptures says. Another word he is the GOAL, that God had in mind from the very begining for all his human creation. He is the protype of us all. The beginning and the end, the start and the finnish. Of the plan of GOD.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Anthony,
You say Jesus was human but was divine as from his birth with his literal Father being God.
So Jesus then in fact to you was NOT a human, but a different type of being, half human half divine.
THIS is a HUGE problem Anthony, you cannot say he is actually a HUMAN being if he was not born with the SEED of a MAN, and the EGG of a WOMAN.
You would have to be delusional to say Jesus is a true human being, when you say at the same time he was not born from the seed of a man united with a woman’s egg.
Hi Nick,
You said addressed to me, “God was in him. He spoke the words of God.”
Yep, that’s what I’v’e been saying not sure what you might have misinterpreted from me.
Anthony,
Please respond to my last post.
One thing I am noticing in your posts is that you rarely if ever, use Old Testament Scripture in your defense, not good bro!!
I don’t think anyone could or should take you seriously if you can’t use Old Testament scripture MORE prevalently !! It’s like you ignore it or just down right refuse it.
I once spent sometime with a friend of mine doing a few bible studies many years back, she was a trinitarian, and she explained the OT as being wrong and the NT as being written to give the actual truth. Her ignorance was astounding! I am thinking at this point absolutely yours is too, since you never use OT.
IF YOU DON’T HAVE a SOLID FOUNDATION in the OT and USE the OT to understand the NT you will NEVER EVER understand the NT correctly.
Jodi,
you said to Anthony:
THIS is a HUGE problem Anthony, you cannot say he is actually a HUMAN being if he was not born with the SEED of a MAN, and the EGG of a WOMAN.
Was Adam a human being? Was he conceived with the seed of a man and the egg of a woman??? NO! Was Eve a human being, was Eve conceived with the seed of a man, and the egg of a woman??? NO, again!!
you also said to Anthony:
You would have to be delusional to say Jesus is a true human being, when you say at the same time he was not born from the seed of a man united with a woman’s egg.
Both of your statements to Anthony are incorrect. Adam and Eve are two examples of human beings not conceived with the seed of a man and the egg of a woman.
Anthony,
Use ISAIAH in your next post I challenge you! Or do you give NO MIND to the PROPHETS?? So far it seems that you do entirely give NO MIND, and it’s getting old, as if you think I would take you seriously when you don’t, because I simply won’t.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
THE ELECT is NOT the LORD WHO created the heavens and the earth. He is a man that would come and the LORD would put His Spirit upon him and call him into righteousness. The LORD would PERFECT him so that he could be a righteous judge, knowing our temptations as he was himself tempted as a HUMAN BEING, just like us. This call of righteousness is glory that God would NOT GIVE to ANOTHER MORTAL, only this ELECTED person, who was among his brethren of the tribe of Judah, of the SEED of Solomon and David.
NEW THINGS the LORD says, once there is something NEW it has a BEGINNING.
Everything God MADE was FOR THIS BEGINNING, He wouldn’t have made the world if it were NOT for this beginning. As He had said,
2 Samuel 7:11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Pre-eminence, surpassing other HUMANS in authority, even the great father Abraham.
Psalms 89:3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, 4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah….24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
We are told not just David’s seed but Solomon’s, which if Jesus were to be the SEED of Solomon then Joseph would be his biological father produced through the Holy Spirit, which is EXACTLY what Matthew tells us. The mercy of God would be on the chosen one of the seed of David.
Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
The former things have come to pass there is a NEW BEGINNING Isaiah 42:9, the firstborn from the dead.
John 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
When did Jesus begin to speak the words that were not his, but the LORD’S?
Well not in the OT, as we are told that the LORD spoke in the OT through angels, prophets, dreams, visions.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
The WORD of the LORD was spoken by the prophets, and Moses had said that a prophet like him would come, and him the people would hear. Moses did not say the ONE who is the WORD giving him the WORD would come and speak the word but not be able to do so through himself. Seriously how FOOLISH can the doctrine that Jesus was the WORD be!!! PURE IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY to say such a ridiculous thing.
We are told that he was anointed and then sent out to speak the LORD’S WORDS.
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
From Jesus’s anointing that was the beginning of which he was speaking of in John 8.
ANTHONY if you cannot USE OT with the NT when giving your “truth” in regards to WHO JESUS IS, then you are worthless and should not be taken seriously, but are like the pagan converts when they produced their doctrine hating the Hebrews and LOVING GREEK philosophy, only seeking to take the NT and fit it into their previous held beliefs when it came to identifying Jesus.
Their Jesus is likened to that of a PAGAN god, and NOT of the PROMISES that God gave to the prophets.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
