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Hi Gene
You said the Spirit came from heaven like it’s a different Spirit, Gene there only one Spirit. It’s the Spirit of the Father as well as His Son. Begotten before the ages or the foundation of the world. That’s because, the Father gave Him everything There also life in the Son. Everything goes through the Son. And everything was created for the Son and everything was created by the Son you can’t sperate the Father and the Son everything come from His Father and everything goes through His Son. Just like the Holy Spirit that was send on the day of Pentecost.was the Spirit of Jesus Christ also the Spirit of truth, the Comforter. Is all the Spirit of Jesus Christ that was send by His Father.
Note: the Holy Spirit isn’t a person or being there only two beings. The Holy is, the Spirit of Jesus Christ . His repersentative here on Earth. That can be in all places,in you ,in Nick anywhere. See you believe that Jesus Christ didn’t pre-existe you believe that He was just a man anointed at His baptism you don’t believe He had no Divinity that was given Him by His Father. By the way I posted a link for you about the Gnostic did you read it. God bless Gene. Anthony
Hi Gene How can we possibly even talk scripture, were different Gene. God bless. Read my post on the Gnostic. K
Paul does not teach that God was made into flesh.
Paul teaches that God was made visible/known in the flesh, in Jesus.
To say that we know God through Jesus, because Jesus spoke God’s words, is quite different then saying Paul meant that God became a mortal able to be tempted and die.
The “he” or the “him” in Hebrews is always referring to the righteous MAN Jesus, whether it be the now immortal Jesus or the then mortal Jesus.
Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
We were reconciled by a god being made like unto his brethren?? NOTICE he is made like his brethren, he is already in the brotherhood but he is made like his brothers to bring reconciliation for the sins of people.
That occurred through Jesus being made to be sin for us. This is how he was made like his brethren, his brethren were sinners, and the penalty of sin is death.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Anthony, Paul’s words repeatedly prove your interpretations wrong.
You say that Jesus was first spiritual then he became earthly then he became spiritual again. That is completely the opposite of what Paul says, which is that the earthly is first then the spiritual, those listening to Paul who knew God’s promise would have understood him quite well, as they would have known that God said he would take a Son of MAN and MAKE him into a Son of God. The second Adam was made into our master, our high priest, he is from heaven/from God. We will bear the image of the heavenly. We will bear the image of God as Jesus does, being full of righteousness.
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Hi Anthony,
Keep the faith!
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
John 1:1c
…the Word was God (the Son, the only begotten God).
John 1:14a
And the Word became flesh…
1 Timothy 3:16
…God (the Son, the only begotten God) was manifest in the flesh…received up into glory.
Acts 20:28c
…to shepherd the church of God (the Son, the only begotten God) which He purchased with His own blood.
Ephesians 1:7
In Him (the Son, the only begotten God) we have redemption through His blood (the Son, the only begotten God’s blood), the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace…
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church (the Son, the only begotten God’s church), and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.Titus 2:14
He (the Son, the only begotten God) gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.“The Son, the only begotten God” added for clarity.
Btw, Anthony, you can’t argue someone into having faith. The good seed falls where it falls, only some have fertile ground on which it falls and takes root and grows. You will be able to recognize them.
God bless, LU
Hi LU,
Yur additions to scripture make your odd view of the word understandable.
But we should not add to what is written.
You change it to your word.
I am suppose to believe that Jesus pre-existed as the WORD of God, but when this pre-existing god became flesh he could not speak the word of God through himself, even though he was apparently the word of God prior?
LU and Anthony,
Did God save men through a man?
From what I have gathered is that you believe Jesus was God but then became part man and part God. So we were not actually saved, according to you, by a man right, but a half man?
So the reason why Jesus could not speak from himself is because he was only half God, but you have to be whole God to speak God?
Or maybe when he existed prior as the word of God he was still being given that word through his Father, and the same was true when he became part man? But I would argue that if you have to be GIVEN the truth in order to speak the truth you are clearly NOT God.
Please explain?
At this point I am being convinced that you are true puppets of a creed, and cannot think for yourself in regards to what the scriptures actually say, you can’t even recognize that you are authors of MASS confusion. But it seems that you admit to the confusion and say that is where your faith must come in??
Hi,
The Word is the seed. Some falls on the path, to be crushed or taken, among thorns.
Only if it is planted in good soil and watered with grace can it grow into a useful plant.
Men grapple using their weak minds and logic to form constructs acceptable to themselves.
But knowledge is of grace, a gift that is spiritual and abhorrent to those not rebrand from above.
God does it all or nothing is done.
We CAN RID CONFUSION by RELYING on the WORD of God spoken to the prophets and believe those words, and that those words were fulfilled both IN and BY the man Jesus, who was 100% flesh and blood being TRULY of the SEED of Solomon, David, and Abraham.
Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
2 Samuel 7: 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth
John 1: 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
REALLY all those words from the prophets I am to ignore, and not use them to understand John???? When God’s word literally became true and the people could see the man that was promised finally existing and was indeed flesh, of the seed of David, is not what is meant, but what is meant is for us to believe that Jesus pre-existed as the word of God?
NO!
The WORD spoken by the prophets having come from God was made flesh and dwelt among the people. The WORD was that God would be a Father to a Son of Man, that God would choose a savior from among brethren, that God would make the seed of David His firstborn.
But I am suppose to believe and focus that the word of God is not in regards to these promises becoming true, but is to declare the pre-existence of Jesus?
Hi LU,
True believers are not distinguished by their confidence in their own ideas.
Certainly they do not add to scripture.
Anthony and LU…..What Jodi and Nick and I, are, AND HAVE BEEN telling you is true, you need to repent and come out of the “mystery religion” you have blindly fell into. YOU are in the wide way that leads to destruction, you need to find the narrow gate, the straight path that leads to life. The one that is beibg offered to you now.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
I AM THAT I AM
THE FIRST AND ONLY time in the OT that it is said, “I AM the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,” is in Exodus 3 WHEN the LORD spoke through an angel to Moses by the burning bush. Exodus 3 is also the ONLY time in the entire bible that “I AM THAT I AM” is given.
Jesus quoted Exodus 3:6 specifically using the “I am” in Matthew and Mark, and it is also quoted in Acts 7 where we are also given the prophecy quoted of Moses saying that God would raise up a prophet like unto him.
Exodus 3: 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites… 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. 16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:
THE FIRST thing that the LORD reveals to Moses from the burning bush is the LORD says “I AM thy God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. So when the LORD says to Moses shortly thereafter, “I AM THAT I AM”, it does not have some mystical meaning, it MEANT what the LORD had already told him, I AM the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, THAT I AM.
This is obvious folks! Moses is told by God to tell the children of Israel, “I AM hath sent me unto you”, and Moses is instructed to gather the elders and tell them, “The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me..”
Jesus quotes from Exodus and it is not to say that he is the “I AM the God of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob,“ but he is using it to teach about the resurrection of the dead and how the LORD is the God of the living and not the dead.
When Jesus is quoting from Exodus 3 what becomes FIRMLY established by what he says, is that he is not the LORD “I AM THAT I AM.” He is the Messiah, the prophet that the LORD had told Moses, one like him would come. What is established in Matthew 22 is Jesus is the son of David, and that the Pharisees did not understand the concept that Jesus would be firstborn of the dead and have pre-eminence over David his father. Pre-eminence is to SURPASS ALL OTHERS, so even though Jesus was a son of David, he surpasses him in authority and greatness.
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. 33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine. 34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. 41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
How could David call his son his Lord as sons are not masters over their fathers? Because Jesus is the firstborn of the dead and was given all rule and authority over all. David understood as he was given by God the prophesy that his son would become master over him, being the firstborn of the dead.
In this passage Jesus is recognized as the son of David, and Jesus speaks specifically referring to God as the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob telling the people that they don’t know the scriptures nor the power of God. God had promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob eternal life, they are referred to as sleeping, but they will wake, as God is not the God of the dead but of the living, but of all the dead Jesus is the firstborn from the dead. The Pharisees were CLUELESS, they did not understand what Jesus said.
Jesus is not I AM THAT I AM, he speaks about the one who is I AM THAT I AM quoting Exodus.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I AM the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Who is Jesus,
Matthew 20: 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Matthew 26: 32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
Luke 9: 20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. 21 And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing; 22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
Jesus is not the I AM, the Father of Abraham, he is the CHRIST of God, the anointed of God, not CHRIST the God, Christ being OF God, being ANOINTED (Christ) by God with God’s Spirit. The CHRIST is the SON of MAN MADE into the Son of God. That is NOT my words but that of God’s spoken to the prophets and what is spoken in Luke 9.
Luke 21: 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
John 5: 43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
John 7: 28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.
John 7: 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.
John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
First the Son of Man was SANCTIFIED in the Spirit of God, being anointed, being born of God, THEN he was SENT into the world.
John 14: 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John 14: 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 17: 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 18: 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Psalms 89: 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
John 19: 21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. 22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come. 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. 30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou,Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? 49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. 50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Abraham like David saw Jesus being made the firstborn of the dead. Abraham knew of the resurrection, that God was indeed the God of the living and not the dead. Though Jesus was born after Abraham and is a son of Abraham he is first, he is head, being the firstborn of the dead and master over all of God’s creation that includes David and Abraham who will be raised after Jesus. Abraham SAW this future and was glad. This is what we are being told in verse 56.
The Pharisees had absolutely NO CLUE that Jesus was talking about the RESURRECTION. Jesus often spoke making them EVEN MORE CONFUSED. JESUS REPLIES CONTINUING to SPEAK about THE RESURECTION. They took up stones and we can be certain that what they thought he meant and wanted to stone him for they actually didn’t understand what he did mean. This is because Jesus specifically said that they neither understood what he said and they did not believe in what he said. It’s hard to believe in something that you cannot even comprehend. Jesus said that they did NOT HEAR him, what they heard was misunderstood and what they misunderstood they wanted to stone him for.
LOOK at the original word translated as WAS in verse 58!!
was transliterated word,
Ginomai
- to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
- to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
- of events
- to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
- of men appearing in public
- to be made, finished
- of miracles, to be performed, wrought
- to become, be made
ABRAHAM is DEAD, the verse is talking about ABRAHAM who had died knowing about the resurrection. “Before Abraham”, is not speaking about before Abraham existed.
“Before Abraham” (WHO IS DEAD), arises, Jesus says I am, as in I AM RISEN BEFORE him.
RECALL Jesus was JUST speaking about Abraham (who is sleeping the sleep of death), and telling the Pharisees that Abraham saw Jesus in his day, he saw the resurrection.
The promise was given to Abraham but Jesus who came later is the first to receive the promise having the pre-eminence. By that he is BEFORE Abraham. It is a fact that Jesus arouse from the dead and given the promise BEFORE Abraham.
Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 4: 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
The inheritance of firstborn into God’s heavenly kingdom is not Abraham, it is Jesus.
Colossians 1: 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
The ONE who said, “I AM the God of Abraham…” and “ I AM THAT I AM”, is the ONE who also said that He would raise up a savior from among the brethren, that He would anoint him with His Spirit, that He would give him and him alone His glory as a mortal, that He would make him who is the son of Solomon His son, and that He would MAKE him His firstborn.
Jesus does not say anywhere that he is also the God of Abraham, of Issac, and Jacob, he is their descendant, and in the resurrection, BEFORE ABRAHAM who had been given the promise, Jesus would actually be the one to receive it first and have preeminence over all things.
The promise that was given to Abraham was through the coming Christ, if it were not for the coming Christ there wouldn’t have been a promise given to Abraham, as through Christ sins are forgiven and the penalty of death is paid for, making Abraham free.
This was established before Abraham existed.
This was established in the beginning by the word of God before He made the world.
The promise that was made before the beginning of the world, the promise that was given to Abraham, and to David, and to Solomon, became fulfilled in Jesus who came in the flesh being their son and being MADE into God’s Son at his anointing, so that through God’s Son God could free the people from sin and death.
This is why we read from Paul that the LORD said from ONE MAN He would bring righteousness and eternal life.
Paul wants to make it certain that we all have UNITY and FAITH in the true Son of God, in the true Christ, by telling us,
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
VERY CLEAR, if your definition of CHRIST the fulness thereof does not equate to a PERFECT MAN, and that your knowledge in the SON of GOD is not held in the belief that Jesus is a PERFECT MAN, you are speaking lies.
VERY BOLD STATEMENT by Paul, who speaks of doctrines made that toss people to and fro AWAY from this truth.
If you say that Jesus is God, then he is NOT a perfect MAN, but is a God, and therefore what you say is a LIE.
Paul says that Jesus IS a PERFECT MAN, not that he WAS a man, or that he WAS half man.
The UNITY of the FAITH is that we believe the SON of God IS a PERFECT MAN.
Jodi…I don’t know how these people can’t understand that, unless God has sent unto them a deluding spirit, so they believe the LIE. 2Ths 2.
God said, ..GOD IS NOT A MAN, THAT HE SHOULS LIE, NOR A SON OF MAN, THAT HE SHOULD REPENT. But they say the man Jesus is a God. So they are also saying Jesus is not a man, denying his flesh and blood existence, which makes them ANTICHRIST’S, NO MATTER HOW THEY TRY TO DENY IT.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Jodi,
I believe that Jesus was saying that He existed before Abraham existed and I would not be among the Pharisees throwing stones, I understand that He is claiming to be the actual, same in essence, Son of God who pre-existed Abraham. The Pharisees did not understand THAT. You don’t understand that.
Of course the true and only begotten Son of God, of the same essence as His Father, who was with the Father before the creation of the world, would not do anything independently of His Father. Do you expect the actual Son of God to act or speak independently of His Father? If so, he would not be perfect but as it is, the only begotten Son of God, of the same essence as His Father does nothing independently of His Father. He doesn’t act or speak independently of His Father. That doesn’t show weakness, it shows strength. The only begotten Son of God is the perfect witness of His Father and the only One who truly knows the Father and the only One who has seen the Father until the Son wills to reveal the Father to others.
If you think about it, the Father doesn’t speak or act independently of His Son. The Father gives mankind His words through His Son whether in person or through the Spirit of the Son. The Father and the Son are interdependently with and in each other as one God, by the Spirit. Apart from the Son, mankind would have never existed, neither the creation, old or new.
A mere man can not be good enough to die for the entire world and redeem mankind.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Yet Jesus was without sin. He was not merely a man. He is the Great Shepherd that had to become a sheep in order to redeem the sheep, because all of the sheep that He was shepherding had gone astray.
John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.Acts 2:24
But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.
1 Peter 2:25
For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.The Great Shepherd became clothed in the body of a sheep, the only begotten Son of God came to be the unblemished lamb:
1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
7“THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.’”8After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Jodi
you quoted a verse:
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
“unto a perfect man” refers to the “we” and perfect means “mature,” not flawless.
Ephesians 4:13
13until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
Strong’s Concordanceteleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfectOriginal Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel’-i-os)
Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.HELPS Word-studiesCognate: 5046 téleios (an adjective, derived from 5056 /télos, “consummated goal”) – mature (consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end–goal, i.e. developed into a consummating completion by fulfilling the necessary process (spiritual journey). See 5056 (telos).
[This root (tel-) means “reaching the end (aim).” It is well-illustrated with the old pirate’s telescope, unfolding (extending out) one stage at a time to function at full-strength (capacity effectiveness).]
Hi Gene
I was wondering if you read what I send about the Gnostics. You didn’t respond to it remember you where telling mean I was mixed up with early and later Gnostics. Well I guess you really do want to comment on it. God bless Gene.
Hi Jodi
Frist and for most is that I’m not deny that Jesus Christ wasn’t human or that He is the offspring of David. What I I’m saying is this Jesus Christ is also Divine. You don’t believe that part about Him. I believe that Jesus Christ is the offspring of David and I assume that it happened through Mary’s Father that he must of adopted Joseph for legal purposes., because of the law of inhheritance, the blood line goes through the man not the women, that really His Father is God. Father and Son. I can’t help it if scripture say so.that why I believe that scripture say so. Jesus Christ was Divine had this when He was begotten of the Father before the foundation of the world before creation. Everything was created by Jesus Christ I’ll things was created by Him and for Him (Jesus Christ.) So I believe Jesus Christ is Divine and He is the offspring of David and that’s He pre-existed. I will send the scriptures that say so. God bless Jodi. Anthony
Hi Gene
This may help about the Gnostics
“The very first Christians, the Ebionites7, Nazorenes, Gnostic Christians and others, were all adoptionists. In accordance with the first hundred years of Christian belief and with the oldest manuscripts of the Bible, Jesus was born in a normal way like the rest of us, to his parents, Joseph and Mary, from the line of David as prophesized (Matt. 1:1,9:27, Luke 1:32, John 7:41-3, Acts 13:23, 2 Tim. 2:8, Rev. 5:5 and 22:16). Jesus kept God’s laws so well that on his baptism, God adopted him as his son (as per Matt. 3:16, Mark 1:9-10 and Luke 3:22. In older manuscripts Luke 3:22 quotes Psalm 2:7: “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”), and sent him to the cross as a truly innocent, perfect sacrifice, to atone for the sins of all mankind, to fulfil promises made in the Jewish scriptures. God signalled to the world that this sacrifice had been accepted by raising Jesus from the dead and raising him up directly into heaven. The doctrine of the Virgin Birth, so popular amongst Roman mystery religions and paganism at the time, was never accepted by adoptionists. I send you a link to look at. God bless Gene
Anthony….you speaking of modern Gnostic’s, those of the day of the early church had a completely different teachings. Your mixing up the teachings of the old with the new.
I have very carefull studied the teachings of those original GNOSTIC’S AND THIS IS WHAT THE TAUGHT.
1…they believed and taught Jesus was a God who came from the pelora of the Gods.
2…they also taught he was not a physical human being, but was only desguised as one.
3…they taught JESUS was a God who was sent to correct what the former God, the “Demurige” who was
A evil GOD had created.If you believe Jesus was a God, or a Deity of anykind , you are saying he was not a human being. Because what did God say, Num 23:19, ..”GOD IS “NOT” A MAN, that he should lie, HE IS “NOT” A SON OF MAN, that he should repent”. See your argument is is not with me but with what scripture CLEARLY SAID.
You can’t have it both way Anthony. “Unto us there is but “One” GOD and “ONE” MEDERATOR BETWEEN THAT GOD AND MAN “THE MAN” JESUS THE CHRIST.”
TRYING TO MAKE Jesus a human being a GOD OR DEMIGOD, as trinitarians do, is exactly what the original Gnostic’s did. They were idolaters. They were ANTICHRISTS even as modern christanity is.
He that has eyes to see let him see. Anthony, 95% OF ALL CHRISTENDOM IS GOING DOWN, the wide path, that leads to destruction, are you one of them Anthony?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene didn’t you read the part that says
Gnostic Christians and others, were all adoptionists. In accordance with the first hundred years of Christian belief and with the oldest manuscripts of the Bible.
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