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Hi Jodi I’ve been reading along, seems to me your really not given to much in your post about The only begotten Son not pre-existing with the His Father or anytime before His birth with Mary. Is this still about that? Jodi rather long post that I have for you but yours are kind of long to. Gene and Nick you can read along with your pastor Jodi if you would like to.
And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” 1 Timothy 3:16 – Webster’s Translation
Even if we go with the translation, “He was manifested in the flesh” in 1 Timothy 3:16, the view is still untenable. For who is the “HE” who pre-existed to manifest
Himself in the flesh? Someone clearly had to exist as a “He” before “he was manifested in the flesh.”And again Heb. 2:14 says, “Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity” to be made “fully human in every way (Heb. 2:17 – NIV).”
Who then is the HE who SHARED IN OUR HUMANITY to be made “fully human in every way” (Heb. 2:17 – NIV)? Someone clearly had to exist as a “he” before being made “fully human in every way.” When we carefully read all of the words of inspired scripture we find that Jesus Christ had to have existed before his virgin conception and birth.
Jesus himself clearly stated that he existed both before and during the time of Abraham as recorded in John 8:57-59.
“57Then the Jews said to Him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?’ 58 Truly, truly, I tell you, Jesus declared, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ 59At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus hid Himself and slipped away from the temple area.…”
When Jesus was asked, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you SEEN ABRAHAM?” Jesus replied, “Before Abraham was born, I AM.” Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was born, I was” as if he was created before Abraham. By saying, “before Abraham was born, I am” in the context of John 8, Jesus affirmed that he always pre-existed as the timeless God of Exodus 3:14. For if Jesus meant the same thing as saying, “I am Jesus the Messiah,” then why would the Jewish Pharisees have “picked up stones to throw at him?”
The Pharisees knew that Jesus had used “I AM” in the same manner that God the Father used “I AM” in Exodus 3:14. That is why they picked up stones to kill him.
“God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:14
Benson’s Bible Commentary gives an accurate and thorough rendering of Exodus 3:14,
“The Septuagint renders the words ειμι ο ων, I AM the existing Being, or HE WHO IS; and the Chaldee, I AM HE WHO IS, and WHO WILL BE. That is, I am He that enjoys an essential, independent, immutable, and necessary existence, He that IS, and WAS, and IS TO COME. It explains his name Jehovah, and signifies, 1st, That he is self- existent: he has his being of himself, and has no dependence on any other. And being self-existent, he cannot but be self-sufficient, and therefore all-sufficient, and the inexhaustible fountain of being and blessedness. 2d, That he is eternal and unchangeable: the same yesterday, to-day, and forever. For the words are with equal propriety rendered, I WILL BE WHAT I AM, or, I AM WHAT I WILL BE, or, I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE.”
God did not tell Moses to say, “I AM GOD Almighty” which would have been grammatically accurate. God told Moses to say to the Israelites, “I AM has sent me to you” which implies a timeless existence. This is the equivalent of Jesus saying, “Before Abraham was born I AM” in John 8:58. For Jesus is the timeless great “I AM” of Abraham, Moses, and the prophets.
“I AM” in Greek is “ego eimi.” Just as the English words, “I AM” can be used for individual people, so the Greek New Testament uses “ego eimi” for people saying “I AM” in the normal context of those words.
For example, John 18:4-6 says,
“4Jesus, knowing all that was coming upon Him, stepped forward and asked them, ‘Who are you looking for?’ 5 ‘Jesus of Nazareth,’ they answered. Jesus said, ‘I am (ego eimi).’ And Judas His betrayer was standing there with them. 6When Jesus said, ‘I am,’ they drew back and fell to the ground.…”Even though Jesus said, “I AM” in the normative context of being the man who was raised in Nazareth, the soldiers “fell to the ground.” However, John 8:58 proves that Jesus did not use “ego eimi” in the normative context of a created human being. He used these words in the same context that God used in Exodus 3:14, “I AM that I AM … I AM has sent me to you.”
Jesus never responded by saying that he did not see Abraham. Jesus’ response proves that he not only pre-existed to SEE ABRAHAM, he also pre-exited as the great “I AM” of eternity past (Exodus 3:14). This is why Heb. 1:8-12 proves that Jesus is the One who created the heavens and the earth as Yahweh God the Father before becoming a human son (see Heb. 1:10, Psalm 102:25, Heb. 3:3-4).
“Great is the mystery of godliness” Hebrews says that Jesus is “the exact likeness of the Father” when commenting on Hebrews 1:3. How can Jesus be “the EXACTLY LIKE THE FATHER” and not be that Father with us reproduced as a true man through the virgin? For the only true God the Father said in Isaiah 46:9, “I am God and there is none else, I AM GOD AND THERE IS NONE LIKE ME?” Since Jesus Christ is like God, He must be that “God with us” as a true man. Jodi do you affirm? that the indwelling Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ while claiming that Jesus is only a mere man. Yet how can a mere man be omnipresent like God and not be that God? No verse of scripture ever says that a created angelic being or created human being can be in more than one location at a time? Only the Most High God Himself “fills heaven and earth” (Jer. 23:24). Yet scripture proves that Jesus now “fills all things” according to Ephesians 4:10.
“He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that HE MIGHT FILL ALL THINGS.” Ephesians 4:10 NASB
Only God is the omnipresent Spirit who can hear and answer prayer, but Jesus said in John 14:13, “If you shall ask anything in my name I WILL DO IT.” How can Jesus hear and answer prayers as God if he is not the omnipresent Spirit who fills all things?
Jesus said, “My sheep hear My voice and another they will not follow.”
How can all of God’s elect worldwide hear Jesus’ voice if He is not the omnipresent God who became a man to save us?The apostles believed that Christ was in them. “Christ in you the hope of glory (Col. 1:27).” Paul wrote “Christ lives in me” in Galatians 2:20. How can Christ live in His Church if He is not the Spirit of God?
“You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be THE SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST he is not His.” Romans 8:9 God bless more to come
Edj….what part?, aviously you didn’t read the scriptures me or Jodi have posted, there are ton of them, that back it up. SO post you scriptures that disagree with anything i have said. You say scripture disagrees, but failed to produce themm are we to take your word or do you truly have scriptures to disprove it, let see them.
Saying something is one thing producing actual scriptures is quit another, right?
peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
Micah 5:2 says that (in essence) the spirit of Christ
came from eternity to Bethlehem NOT from Eternity to
the Jordan river as you and others appear to be claiming.“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)____________
God bless
Ed JJodi by the way, there’s only one Spirit.
“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.” Matthew 18:20
Wherefore, the scriptures prove that “the Spirit of Christ” is “the Spirit of God” as the omnipresent Spirit who indwells true New Testament believers. If Jesus is only a mere man, then how can you explain how Jesus can be in the midst of multiple congregations around the world all at once as the indwelling Spirit if he is only a man?
Furthermore, how can God’s true Church be called “the bride of Christ” when the scriptures say we have only “One Husband?”
“For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the LORD (YHWH) of hosts (Isaiah 54:5).”
“I betrothed you to ONE HUSBAND, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ (2 Cor. 11:2).”
If Christ is not the only true “God manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit” (1 Tim. 3:16) then we have two Spirit Husbands. Yet Paul wrote that we have “ONE HUSBAND” as we will be presented “as a pure virgin to Christ.” That makes Jesus Yahweh God who came to save us as a man through the Hebrew virgin.
“For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the LORD (YHWH) of hosts (Isaiah 54:5).”
Hosea 2:19 and Jer. 31:32 also state that the only true God is our spiritual Husband.
Arians (Jesus is an angel), Jodi (Jesus is just a man), and Trinitarians (Jesus is one of 3 Divine Persons) cannot explain how the church is presented to “ONE HUSBAND” who is Jesus Christ because inspired scripture calls the only true God the Father our husband (“the LORD YHWH” is “your husband” – Isaiah 54:5).Can two or three divine persons be “one husband?” “I betrothed you to ONE HUSBAND, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ (2 Cor. 11:2).” Can a mere man replace God as our “ONE HUSBAND” while our Heavenly Father expressly said that He is our husband?
Hebrews 1:3 and Hebrews 2:17 prove that the Spirit of God also became a true man by the Holy Spirit of the only true God descending upon the virgin (Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:18-23).
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (NASB) says, “… our fathers WERE all under the CLOUD and all passed through the SEA; 2and all WERE BAPTIZED into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ATE the same SPIRITUAL FOOD; 4and all DRANK the same SPIRITUAL DRINK, for they WERE DRINKING from A SPIRITUAL ROCK WHICH FOLLOWED THEM, and the ROCK WAS CHRIST.”
Paul clearly stated by inspiration that the Israelite fathers “WERE under the cloud” (the Spirit of God) “and all ATE the same SPIRITUAL FOOD.” And they all “WERE BAPTIZED in the cloud and in the sea” (they experienced a type of water and Spirit baptism), “and all DRANK” from the Spirit of God. “For they WERE DRINKING from a Spiritual Rock which FOLLOWED THEM, and the ROCK WAS CHRIST.”
Notice that the text says that “they were drinking from a Spiritual Rock which FOLLOWED THEM.” Could the Israelites have not ate and drank from the same spiritual food and drink while the scriptures say that they did? Since inspired scripture says that “they were drinking from a Spiritual Rock which FOLLOWED them,” we know that the “spiritual rock” is not talking about the literal rock at Horeb. Could the literal rock at Horeb have “FOLLOWED THEM” in the wilderness? Do literal rocks follow people?We know that “the cloud by day and fire by night” followed the Israelites which clearly speaks of the Spirit of God which “WAS CHRIST” before his birth at Bethlehem. Thus the Holy Spirit of the only true God the Father also became a man within the Hebrew virgin. For 2 Peter 1:21 says the Holy Spirit was in the prophets but 1 Peter 1:11 identifies that Spirit as “the Spirit of Christ” “in them” (in the prophets).
1 Corinthians 10:9 then says, “We should not test Christ (the Greek text says “Christos”), as some of them did–and were killed by snakes.”
Inspired scripture says that some of the Israelites did “test Christ.” For the words, “as some of them DID” could not somehow be interpreted to mean that they did not “test Christ.” How could some of the Israelites have tested Christ if Christ did not pre-exist as the Holy Spirit of the only true God who “followed them” (the Israelite fathers) in the wilderness?
Our Heavenly Father is repeatedly spoken of in scripture as being the Israelites Rock.
Psalm 18:2 says, “The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.”
Deuteronomy 32:18, “You neglected the Rock who begot you, And forgot the God who gave you birth.”
Psalm 18:31, “For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God,”
Psalm 18:46, “The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be the God of my salvation,”
Psalm 19:14, “Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer.”Psalm 28:1, “A Psalm of David. To You, O LORD, I call; My rock,”
The LORD (YAHWEH) is repeatedly addressed as the Israelites Rock (“my rock” and “our rock”). When the apostles identified Christ as the Spiritual Rock of the Israelites, they proved that Jesus Christ pre-existed his virgin conception and birth as Yahweh the Spirit of our Heavenly Father.
Heb.1:2 says that God did not speak to the Israelites through “a son” until these “last days” because Jesus pre-existed his birth as God “the Spiritual Rock that FOLLOWED THEM” before becoming a son. Since the literal rock at Horeb did not “follow them” (the Israelites), nor supply spiritual drink (“they drank from that spiritual rock that followed them and that rock was Christ”), we know that Jesus pre-existed his birth as a child born and son given as the Spirit of God who followed the Israelites in the wilderness who “was Christ.” Therefore we know that the Spiritual Rock that followed the Israelites “was Christ” as God before becoming a human son.
Some have admitted that Jesus Christ is the indwelling Holy Spirit, they now have to explain how a mere man can now “fill all things” as the Holy Spirit of the Father without violating Isaiah 42:8 and Isaiah 46:9.
“I am Yahweh, that is My Name, and My glory will I not give to another.”
“I am God and there is none else, I am God and there is NONE LIKE ME.”
How can Jesus be like God in being the omnipresent Spirit who “fills all things” (Gal. 4:6, Romans 8:9, Ephes. 4:10) and hears and answers prayer (John 14:13) if he is only a mere man?
John 5:23 says that all men should “honour the Son EVEN AS THEY HONOUR THE FATHER.” If Jesus is just a man with no pre-existence as God, how then can we honour the Son “even as” we “honour the Father” without committing idolatry?
John 10:37 clearly affirms that Jesus does the works of the Father. Since “there is none like” God he must be that God who came to save us as a true man. Hence, Jesus Christ is Immanuel, “God with us” manifested as a human “child born” and “son given.” God bless. In Him and Him in me Anthony
Whoa, didn’t realize how long my last post was!
Hi Jodi,
You might want to shorten your posts to only one point.
I don’t bother to even read posts that are that long.____________
God bless
Ed JFolks I’d appreciate it if you could address the follow question.
Why was Jesus born from a virgin?
Hi Jodi,
Because he was not born under the similitude of Adams sin.
____________
God bless
Ed JAnthony, boy do you have some unraveling to do.
God was indeed “manifested” in the flesh, in the flesh man JESUS. Thats true, but that never made the flesh man Jesus a God. GOD IS SPIRIT AND CAN MANIFEST HIMSELF IN ANY BODY HE CHOSES TO, or don’t you beleive what the apostle Paul said, “know you not that your body’s “are” the “temple’s of the living God? And again God spoke through Jesus’ mouth and said “destory this “temple” and in three days I (God) shall raie it up.
You want us to believe JESUS THE MAN WAS A GOD, but scripture disagrees with you, “for God is “NOT A MAN” that he should lie, nor “A SON OF MAN”, that he should repent”. So much for your God man thing.
We are not denying God’s presence was not “in” Jesus, Jesus said that himself, “the father is “in” me, but none of that ever made Jesus the Father that was in him. Even Thomas came to finally understand that, saying, “my lord (adoni a human ruler) “AND” my GOD”. He “finally” came to realize God the father through the christo’s (anointing spirit or christo’s) was “in” Jesus. So the man JESUS and his Gos was present. The anointing spirit was in Jesus, but again that never made Jesus the anointing that was “in” him. Like your false doctrine teaches. You seem not able to seperate the anointing spirit from the one anointed with it.
Do you call Moses a God, he also had the anointing spirit on him not to even mention the hundreds of others in the old testement, and even us who are called by that “same spirit”, that abides in us, do you call us God’s also.
Anothny, “there is “only” one God, and there is one “mediator” between that one GOD “who”, the “MAN” Jesus the anointed.” Even as Moses was sent to deliever Isreal as the anointed one of God, so also was Jesus sent to deliever mankind, by that same anointing spirit.
What do you do with this if Jesus was himself God….”the words i am telling you are “not my words” but the word of him who sent me”?, do you just throw them out of your bible.
Here some more for you , “the son of man can do “nothing” of himself, the Father who is “IN ME”, he does the works”. You seem unable to seperate the ANOINTING SPIRIT OR CHRISTO’S which is God, FROM THE PERSON Jesus HIMSELF.
As concerning the guards the fell back when Jesus responded to them after they said they were looking for JESUS, that is exactly what a group of Roman soliders would do to prepare for an attack. They came out to take a man captive, so it was natural for them to think they would have to fight to get him, there were 12 of them, so they expected a fight. Man you people add so much that is not even written to your dogmas.
The ANOINTING SPIRIT OF GOD IS THE CHRIST, NOT THE MAN JESUS, WHO THAT ANOINTING WAS IN. It’s just that simple, and if you had that same anointing in you also you could easely understand that, but you have been decieved and have bought into “mystery religion” and believe their false teachings.
By not understanding that the anointing spirit is not the man Jesus, and that Jesus “had to be” anointed to do what he did, you in affect are denying the anointing process, required for a man, to do the work of God, and are therefore indeed “ANTICHRIST’S’ because you don’t believe Jesus Was simply an ordinary human being who came into his existence exactly as we do, through the lions of his father king David and “had” to be anointed by God, inorder to do the work of God, You simply are not of the truth.
Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
Hi Gene do you agree with any of them scripture? The Father gives Him everything that he has, everything goes through the Son and the one Spirit which is His Spirit that comes from the Father. You do t understand that Gene I can tell you this it not coming through you. God bless don’t want to talk about what I posted. God bless Gene. I can send more but i have to go fishing right now bye
The generations given in Matthew contain all the needed elements to fulfill God’s prophecies, that God would be a Father to the son of Solomon, David, and Abraham.
The promise was that God WOULD BE A FATHER unto THEIR SON, THEIR OFFSPRING, NOT that God would send His already existing offspring to be made into their offspring. That is backwards, that is not what the prophecy says, SAYING such a thing contradicts the prophecies and thus is ILLOGICAL and FOOLISH.
The promise was that their son, their offspring God would MAKE INTO His firstborn Son. Saying that God would take an already existing firstborn son and transform him into their son, and have him be believed that he is God’s firstborn son that already existed is ILLOGICAL and FOOLISH. It is to be in complete DENIAL to the testament of God’s clearly written words.
1 Chronicles 17: 7 “Now then, tell my servant David, ‘This is what the LORD Almighty says: I took you from the pasture, from tending the flock, and appointed you ruler over my people Israel. 8 I have been with you wherever you have gone, and I have cut off all your enemies from before you. Now I will make your name like the names of the greatest men on earth. 9 And I will provide a place for my people Israel and will plant them so that they can have a home of their own and no longer be disturbed. Wicked people will not oppress them anymore, as they did at the beginning 10 and have done ever since the time I appointed leaders over my people Israel. I will also subdue all your enemies. “ ‘I declare to you that the LORD will build a house for you: 11 When your days are over and you go to be with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He is the one who will build a house for me, and I will establish his throne forever. 13 I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. 14 I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will be established forever.’ ”
Psalms 89:21 My hand will sustain him; surely my arm will strengthen him. 22 The enemy will not get the better of him; the wicked will not oppress him. 23 I will crush his foes before him and strike down his adversaries. 24 My faithful love will be with him, and through my name his horn will be exalted. 25 I will set his hand over the sea, his right hand over the rivers. 26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’ 27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth. 28 I will maintain my love to him forever, and my covenant with him will never fail. 29 I will establish his line forever, his throne as long as the heavens endure.
1 Chronicles 22: 7 David said to Solomon: “My son, I had it in my heart to build a house for the Name of the LORD my God. 8 But this word of the LORD came to me: ‘You have shed much blood and have fought many wars. You are not to build a house for my Name, because you have shed much blood on the earth in my sight. 9 But you will have a son who will be a man of peace and rest, and I will give him rest from all his enemies on every side. His name will be Solomon, and I will grant Israel peace and quiet during his reign. 10 He is the one who will build a house for my Name. He will be my son, and I will be his father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’ 11 “Now, my son, the LORD be with you, and may you have success and build the house of the LORD your God, as he said you would. 12 May the LORD give you discretion and understanding when he puts you in command over Israel, so that you may keep the law of the LORD your God.
1 Chronicles 28: 6 He said to me: ‘Solomon your son is the one who will build my house and my courts, for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.
Matthew 1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; 14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; 15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
The ENTIRE CONTEXT of Colossians 1 is written knowing the ABOVE passages and that of the son of Solomon, David, Abraham, the Almighty Creator would make their son His firstborn, which comes from a clear passage. It is in the context of knowing and believing the below clear passages. If you believe in these passages then Colossians 1 is clear as well.
Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
The CONTEXT of the entire chapter is held in the hope that is laid up for us in heaven, the new beginning, the new creation, of which CAME through the Son of Man that shed his blood who by such filleth all in all, and being raised from the dead he was placed at God’s right hand and is before all, having might and dominion being the head over all.
Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: 7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; 8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit. 9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For through him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
God promised eternal life to humans before He made the world, the way He brought eternal life was through ONE MAN shedding his blood. This was a plan from the very beginning thus it is LOGICAL and true that everything God made was leading up to the resurrection of Jesus, all things were made through him, the new man that was raised with eternal life, and for him. NOTHING would have ever been made if God did not have a plan to perfect one man and bring redemption to all through that one man. What has God given this resurrected MAN, what did God bring forth FOR Jesus to have ? For Jesus are all people from A to Z, as according to God’s plan He sets all generations that God brought forth from A to Z under him, to bring many to the eternal life that he has. All people are given FOR Jesus to judge. From the beginning all things came forth FOR Jesus to come and have dominion over. All things were made through him and FOR him.
We are told precisely WHY he is WORTHY of such a TASK? Not because he pre-existed, that is PURE vanity and illogical to the CONTEXT of the entire bible.
He is worthy because he was MADE perfect through suffering and that suffering makes him an understanding and righteous judge.
Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. 3 For this MAN was COUNTED WORTHY of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Hi Anthony,
Yes there is ONLY ONE Spirit, that Spirit is God the Father of Jesus and our Father.
God can give His Spirit to HUMANS, there are elements of His Spirit that He can give and He gave Jesus ALL of them, as we are told that Jesus received God’s Spirit without measure.
We see at Pentecost men received different elements to God’s Spirit, likewise He gave them to men in the OT, Moses, David, Solomon, all the prophets…
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:2 And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.
This is WHY Jesus was called the “only begotten Son”. He was the ONLY Mortal to be born of God’s Spirit without measure. This Spirit was NOT given to him at birth, it was given once Jesus was a man and God found Him to be pleasing to Him having grown under God’s grace. Certainly doesn’t make sense for God to give His Spirit without measure to an infant, or a child, or a teenager. Never the less, we are told that Jesus received God’s Spirit at the river when he was about 30 years old.
God told Solomon that He would choose Solomon’s son to be His son.
1 Chronicles 28: 6 He said to me: ‘Solomon your son is the one who will build my house and my courts, for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.
Once Jesus was born of God, God SENT THIS SON out into the world.
Hi Ed,
Jesus was born of a woman, born under the law.(Gal)
The significance of this verse is shown in Job 25.
Born behind the 8 ball like all of mankind.
Hi Anthony,
‘God has visited his people.’
The common people knew God spoke in many ways including through the prophets. (Heb 1)
But who cannot hear God speaking in human vessels always think the vessels must be God as with Paul and Barnabas.
The heathen theologians are among them, false teachers, so do not follow them.
Hi Anthony,
You said, “And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” 1 Timothy 3:16 – Webster’s Translation”
God WAS MADE KNOWN (manifested) in JESUS, he was RENDERED RIGHTEOUS (justified) in the Spirit, he is seen by angels, and he is preached to the Gentiles, and he was received UP INTO GLORY as he had RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE.
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and GAVE HIM GLORY; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Anthony go back to your bible and READ, likewise PLEASE read what I am telling you and pray! Look through the gospels and see WHEN it is that Jesus begins to be called the Son of God!! It doesn’t occur until after he is anointed by God’s Spirit at the Jordan!! The Christ, the anointed man is the Son of God. When the child was born it is said that he SHALL BE GREAT, he wasn’t known to be great until He had received God’s Spirit without measure, from then he was sent and went out and healed people and performed great miracles and began to be known as great. When the child was born it is said that he SHALL BE called the Son of the Highest, through his anointing he became the Son of God and by his words and his deeds though some rejected him, others recognized him as the fulfilled prophecy given to David and Solomon!!
They called him the SON of GOD not because he pre-existed, but because he was right there in front of there eyes, the ONE that God promised, the ONE they knew about from the prophets, the ONE that God had said to SOLOMON He would take his son and MAKE him into His own son, the ONE that was said would come and heal and be their savior. Seeing Jesus and him fulfilling prophecy that came from God they BELIEVED in GOD and they believed in him that God sent to them.
Anthony you read scripture through PAGAN eyes and traditions of men, you do not read scripture through a righteous Hebrew’s eyes versed in Old Testament prophecy. It’s time for you to come out of false teachings!!
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Go and read in the gospels when it is that the people start calling him the Son of God. Think as to WHY it is that THEY would be calling him that.
Anthony. ..yes i do agree with them, just not your interputations of them.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Jodi and Gene I don’t agree with your interpretations neither Gene. I showed you that Jesus Christ did pre-existe before He was birth by the virgin Mary and Father God . You try to pick on other thing go back and read it again. scripture come right out and say it but you can’t agree with those scripture that simply say that,He pre-existe, you always have a reason why they are not true, but they are you just can’t take it, you have a doctrine that want let you . Jodi you just came back and told me that I didn’t know the old teastment and and I was using them out of context. You know what Jodi I think you are. No I don’t agree with you I myself know I proofed that Jesus Christ pre-existed. Jodi alot of what your saying doesn’t even have anything to do if Jesus Christ pre-existed or not.
Hi TC,
No you did not show anyone preexisted.
You showed that you do not recognise the Spirit in the Son.
You showed us the carnal view of scripture and did not recognise the spiritual view.
Hi TC,
‘ I am the bread of life’
’Eat my flesh and drink my blood’
Is this the man Jesus speaking of himself?
No it is the Spirit speaking through the perfectly submitted human vessel.
Hi TC,
In these last days God has spoken to us through His Son.
Learn to discern the voice of the Spirit.
If you just see and hear what the Pharisees saw and heard you have entirely missed the point.
Hi TC,
Matt 6.33
But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you.
Lk 7.29
When all the people and the tax collectors heard this they acknowledged God’s justice,
having been baptised with the baptism of John. But the pharisees and the lawyers
rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptised by John.
35
Yet Wisdom is vindicated by all her children.
Hi Nick does this show Jesus Christ pre-existed
I’ve been reading along, seems to me your really not given to much in your post about The only begotten Son not pre-existing with the His Father or anytime before His birth with Mary. Is this still about that? Jodi rather long post that I have for you but yours are kind of long to. Gene and Nick you can read along with your pastor Jodi if you would like to.
And without controversy, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” 1 Timothy 3:16 – Webster’s Translation
Even if we go with the translation, “He was manifested in the flesh” in 1 Timothy 3:16, the view is still untenable. For who is the “HE” who pre-existed to manifest
Himself in the flesh? Someone clearly had to exist as a “He” before “he was manifested in the flesh.”And again Heb. 2:14 says, “Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity” to be made “fully human in every way (Heb. 2:17 – NIV).”
Who then is the HE who SHARED IN OUR HUMANITY to be made “fully human in every way” (Heb. 2:17 – NIV)? Someone clearly had to exist as a “he” before being made “fully human in every way.” When we carefully read all of the words of inspired scripture we find that Jesus Christ had to have existed before his virgin conception and birth.
Jesus himself clearly stated that he existed both before and during the time of Abraham as recorded in John 8:57-59.
“57Then the Jews said to Him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?’ 58 Truly, truly, I tell you, Jesus declared, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ 59At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus hid Himself and slipped away from the temple area.…”
When Jesus was asked, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you SEEN ABRAHAM?” Jesus replied, “Before Abraham was born, I AM.” Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was born, I was” as if he was created before Abraham. By saying, “before Abraham was born, I am” in the context of John 8, Jesus affirmed that he always pre-existed as the timeless God of Exodus 3:14. For if Jesus meant the same thing as saying, “I am Jesus the Messiah,” then why would the Jewish Pharisees have “picked up stones to throw at him?”
The Pharisees knew that Jesus had used “I AM” in the same manner that God the Father used “I AM” in Exodus 3:14. That is why they picked up stones to kill him.
“God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:14
Benson’s Bible Commentary gives an accurate and thorough rendering of Exodus 3:14,
“The Septuagint renders the words ειμι ο ων, I AM the existing Being, or HE WHO IS; and the Chaldee, I AM HE WHO IS, and WHO WILL BE. That is, I am He that enjoys an essential, independent, immutable, and necessary existence, He that IS, and WAS, and IS TO COME. It explains his name Jehovah, and signifies, 1st, That he is self- existent: he has his being of himself, and has no dependence on any other. And being self-existent, he cannot but be self-sufficient, and therefore all-sufficient, and the inexhaustible fountain of being and blessedness. 2d, That he is eternal and unchangeable: the same yesterday, to-day, and forever. For the words are with equal propriety rendered, I WILL BE WHAT I AM, or, I AM WHAT I WILL BE, or, I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE.”
God did not tell Moses to say, “I AM GOD Almighty” which would have been grammatically accurate. God told Moses to say to the Israelites, “I AM has sent me to you” which implies a timeless existence. This is the equivalent of Jesus saying, “Before Abraham was born I AM” in John 8:58. For Jesus is the timeless great “I AM” of Abraham, Moses, and the prophets.
“I AM” in Greek is “ego eimi.” Just as the English words, “I AM” can be used for individual people, so the Greek New Testament uses “ego eimi” for people saying “I AM” in the normal context of those words.
For example, John 18:4-6 says,
“4Jesus, knowing all that was coming upon Him, stepped forward and asked them, ‘Who are you looking for?’ 5 ‘Jesus of Nazareth,’ they answered. Jesus said, ‘I am (ego eimi).’ And Judas His betrayer was standing there with them. 6When Jesus said, ‘I am,’ they drew back and fell to the ground.…”Even though Jesus said, “I AM” in the normative context of being the man who was raised in Nazareth, the soldiers “fell to the ground.” However, John 8:58 proves that Jesus did not use “ego eimi” in the normative context of a created human being. He used these words in the same context that God used in Exodus 3:14, “I AM that I AM … I AM has sent me to you.”
Jesus never responded by saying that he did not see Abraham. Jesus’ response proves that he not only pre-existed to SEE ABRAHAM, he also pre-exited as the great “I AM” of eternity past (Exodus 3:14). This is why Heb. 1:8-12 proves that Jesus is the One who created the heavens and the earth as Yahweh God the Father before becoming a human son (see Heb. 1:10, Psalm 102:25, Heb. 3:3-4).
“Great is the mystery of godliness” Hebrews says that Jesus is “the exact likeness of the Father” when commenting on Hebrews 1:3. How can Jesus be “the EXACTLY LIKE THE FATHER” and not be that Father with us reproduced as a true man through the virgin? For the only true God the Father said in Isaiah 46:9, “I am God and there is none else, I AM GOD AND THERE IS NONE LIKE ME?” Since Jesus Christ is like God, He must be that “God with us” as a true man. Jodi do you affirm? that the indwelling Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ while claiming that Jesus is only a mere man. Yet how can a mere man be omnipresent like God and not be that God? No verse of scripture ever says that a created angelic being or created human being can be in more than one location at a time? Only the Most High God Himself “fills heaven and earth” (Jer. 23:24). Yet scripture proves that Jesus now “fills all things” according to Ephesians 4:10.
“He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that HE MIGHT FILL ALL THINGS.” Ephesians 4:10 NASB
Only God is the omnipresent Spirit who can hear and answer prayer, but Jesus said in John 14:13, “If you shall ask anything in my name I WILL DO IT.” How can Jesus hear and answer prayers as God if he is not the omnipresent Spirit who fills all things?
Jesus said, “My sheep hear My voice and another they will not follow.”
How can all of God’s elect worldwide hear Jesus’ voice if He is not the omnipresent God who became a man to save us?The apostles believed that Christ was in them. “Christ in you the hope of glory (Col. 1:27).” Paul wrote “Christ lives in me” in Galatians 2:20. How can Christ live in His Church if He is not the Spirit of God?
“You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be THE SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST he is not His.” Romans 8:9 God bless more to come
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