Firstborn of/over all creation

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  • #831497
    Anthony
    Participant

    Gene how can you believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh you don’t believe He was send by His Father. don’t you know how you believe. God bless

    #831498
    Anthony
    Participant

    Gene you said John said all them that believe not that Jesus came in the flesh were antichrists, do you believe Jesus came into his existence as a man just like we did, if you don’t see Jesus as a ordinary human being, no Gene He isn’t just like we are, Gene He not ordinary human. Gene your the one that don’t believe that His Father sent Him. You deny that Gene. One of the points you need to get. ThatJeos different then us by a long shot. God bless.

    #831500
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Anthony, I sure do believe God the Father did send Jesus out into the world to preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God, he was sent right after he was anointed and tested in the wilderness. He was not sent from a place out side this earth as preexistners and Gnostic’s teach.

    If what you believe then what do you believe about the apostles when JESU SENT THEM OUT “INTO” THE WORLD, Just like he was sent. do you believe they came from another place also, after all Jesus said they were not of this world even as he wasn’t, and he said…”as the Father sent me into the world even so have i “also” sent them (where) “INTO” THE WORLD. John 17:18

    WHERE IS THE DIFFERENCE? sending someone “INTO” the world, does not mean they came from out side this earth. Now Does it?

    Peace and love to you and yours……..gene

    #831532
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Anthony,

    Jesus is the NAME given to the child of Mary.

    Anthony did God promise Abraham and David that of THEIR SEED a Messiah would be made?

    If you say that the child was NOT of their seed being FULLY a human being, you have a problem, as you are DENYING God’s promise that from THEIR SEED a Messiah would COME. 

    Please show me from the OT where an already existing God son would be sent to earth. Can you find one?

    What we are given in the OT is that from among the tribe of Judah a savior would come, and God would CAUSE this human to come and that God would put his Spirit upon this HUMAN.

    Sounds like to me you are in complete denial of the OT and God’s promises.

    We are told DIRECTLY in the NT that the SON of MAN CAME from heaven.

    13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    The Son of MAN came from heaven, CAME FROM GOD, as God had promised He would send of the seed of David a human savior.

    But you say that God sent an already existing being and turned him into a human. CAN YOU PLEASE SHOW ME in the OT where such a promise exists?

    Anthony, the above statement I just made is BIBLICAL TRUTH, I combined direct scripture together. What you do in identifying your Jesus is you take a verse here and there completely out of context and make that verse about a non human god son. I ALWAYS make the scripture to speak about the the MAN Jesus, born of Mary, I make it about the Son of Man that came from God that is ACCORDING to the OT and God’s promises.

    7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth IS BORN of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

    ONE MAN through OBEDIENCE would be the propitiation for our sins. The fullness of the Messiah is that of a PERFECT MAN, you seem to clearly deny this.

    1 John 3: 9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

    1 John 3: 9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

    10 In this manifest are the children of God..23 and this is His command, that we may believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and may love one another, even as He did give command to us.

    The NAME of Jesus is a name given to a HUMAN BEING born of another human being, who was given the seed of God and thus is called God’s Son.

    Psalms 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE.

    Psalm 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king. 19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people. 20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

    27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. 30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; 31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

    22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

    Psalms 89 MAKES it CLEAR that a HUMAN would be MADE into God’s SON, and that a HUMAN would be MADE into God’s firstborn. Psalms 2 MAKES it CLEAR that on a DAY a HUMAN would be BORN of GOD.

    Jesus is the CHRIST, which means a MAN BORN of God. A MAN BORN of God is God’s SON. You make Jesus into a son by a pre-existing glory, not by the glory of a MAN BEING BORN of God. By doing so your Jesus becomes anti-christ.

    Anthony you are against OT prophecy, you are against the very identity that the Messiah is a man who was promised to come, you deny that the Son of God is the HUMAN BORN of God.

    YOU DENY the GLORY of who Jesus is, you DENY thus then also the Father, because you have taken away the begetting of a human becoming God’s Son through God’s Spirit. 

     

     

    #831533
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi…..perfect sis.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #831535
    Jodi
    Participant

    Anthony,

    We praise our heavenly Creator for His accomplishment that He brought forth to His creation.

    Adam and Eve were made in the image of God.

    Our Creator before He made the world promised eternal life to HUMANS.

    The OT speaks of a HUMAN of the tribe of Judah that would COME of whom God would ANOINT with His Spirit and God would call him a Son. This HUMAN would be a savior for his PEOPLE. He would BE MADE a master. He is CALED the Son of MAN, and the Son of God. This saviour would INHERIT his father King David’s kingdom, which is God’s kingdom because God sets up kings and kingdoms through His will and by His powers, what He speaks is truth.

    We are told in OT and NT scripture that this kingdom would be an eternal kingdom. This kingdom is therefore from heaven as Jesus is from heaven, and those in Christ are also FROM heaven. As Jesus is NOT of this world likewise we are ALSO not of this world, nor is the Holy city of Jerusalem, it COMES DOWN from heaven, just as Jesus CAME down from heaven.

    The fullness of the Messiah is a perfect human. As a perfect human MADE incorruptible he is the Image of God.

    Anthony please show me in the OT where the Messiah is said to already exist as a different being?

    The OT scripture that I read identify him strictly as a human, and his glory is in the fact that God would put His Spirit upon him and cause him to walk in His righteousness.

     

     

     

    #831542
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jodi,

    You take great strides to show that Jesus was the promised unblemished Lamb, a promised man, but we already know that.

    What you do not get is that the unblemished Lamb was the Shepherd beforehand. Jesus owned the sheep before He became a sheep. He was Lord over the sheep.

    Also what you confuse is the way that Jesus was the only begotten Son of God amidst the many who become sons of God.

    The pre-existent Son is a son OF the Father Himself.

    All other sons are sons by divine adoption. Jesus was never a son by divine adoption.

    Romans 8:3

    2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.…

    The Greek word for “His own” is Strong’s #1438 heautou which means “of himself.” You can check it out here:

    http://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/8-3.htm

    Those who believe that the Pre-existent Son is truly a Son of the Father’s own self will build on a firm foundation when reading the entire rest of scripture. If you have another foundation to build on, your building will not stand. The foundation that the true church is built on is the truth that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God Himself!

    You don’t seem to understand the difference between an adopted son and the actual son of the parents themselves. If you can’t see that which is foundational, it does not pay to go through verses about what the Son was sent to do. We have to build on the solid foundation of how the only begotten Son of God is the only begotten Son of God. Until then, we can send verses back and forth, taking a great deal of time and effort to do so, and we will never come into unity in truth. Our separate buildings will look completely different.

    I do appreciate you and care for you and hope the best for you,

    Blessings,

    LU

    #831544
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU…You are of the many going down the wide path of “religion” that lead to destruction, which “MANY” go in threat, it’s better to go through the narrow gate and the straight path that leads to life, the one that “Few” find. You are of the “many” catholics and their sister churches the prodestants trinitarian churches.

    The way Jodi presented Jesus is the exact way to see who he is, it is the house built on a rock, your belifs are built on sand and will come crashing down in time, if not repented of.

    Your belife has moved the idenity of Jesus away from his human roots and made him, (a man), into a preexisting GOD OR DEMAGOD OF SOME KIND. I dought if you even know what he was before his berth on this earth. No scripture speaks of any activity before his berth on this earth. “Mystery Religion” doesn’t work for them who have the truth.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #831546
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    The man Jesus was conceived of his mother like any other man.

    Do you not believe Mary was his mother?

     

    #831565
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU….Jesus was the only “PHYSICAL” human being “BORN” that God himself, actually Fathered, by supplying his Male DNA, into a physical human women. That makes Jesus the only human being, who came into his existence, that God himself physically fathered of all of man kind, SCENSE Adam who was also called the son of God.

    Jesus is the second Adam, brought forth by God himself, but AS the first Adam did not “preexist” his comming into existence, neither did the “second Adam” Jesus preexist his berth either.

    Jesus had to be from mankind in order to pay for the sins of mankind, he was never of a different existence then we are. If he was then he could never qulify to take away the sins of mankind. He had to be an ordinary human being “exactly like us'” to accomplish that purpose.

    LU, REMEMBER what Jesus said, the deception would be about “who” he was. Saying that “many would come “in my name” saying i am, and shall decieve many. Jesus know it was going to be all about who he was, that would be the b I g deception.

    The many believe in a false Jesus, only a “few” know the real JESUS.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #831567
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning Lu,

    Here is YOUR FOUNDATION,

    ADOPTION is the termed used for the REDEMPTION of the BODY, which Jesus is the FIRST to receive that adoption. 

    23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

    By ONE MAN LU your sins are wiped CLEAN, not by God sending a pre-existing son.

    Jesus is the FIRST to receive the ADOPTION the REDEMPTION of a HUMAN BODY from mortal to incorruptible. If Jesus was not a MAN and raised from the dead as a man, than ALL that have died are dead forever.

    Here is your FOUNDATION LU,

    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

    The KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God is a PERFECT MAN, that is the FULLNESS of CHRIST.

    2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

    Jesus —the NAME given to the HUMAN born of Mary whose genealogy is listed saying that he is the blood of David, the blood of Abraham THROUGH Joseph.

    Christ –which means a MAN born of God who through that birth is able to remain without sin. The blood of a perfect HUMAN set us FREE. As was promised David’s descendant would not have his flesh see corruption. 

    LU you seem to clearly deny that the FULLNESS of CHRIST is a PERFECT MAN, and has nothing to do with a pre-existing son.

    3For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.…

    LU this is exactly how you DENY the TRUE Jesus and speak antichrist, by your interpretation of this passage making the person that was sent antichrist.

    Jesus was NOT a sinful man, but he was in fact a man like us in every way EXCEPT he was WITHOUT sin. He was in the likeness of a sinful man BECAUSE he was TEMPTED in every way like us but he did not sin. The MAN who shed his blood on the cross was a MAN. God did not send an eternal pre-existing son to pose in likeness of a human and then die.

    LU you miss the entire understanding of the GOSPEL, which is that a MAN can be saved, not by the law but by the Spirit working in a man.  A man must be born of water and of the Spirit to reach God’s kingdom. Jesus was a MAN born of water and of the Spirit and he reached the kingdom. He is proof of the WORKS that God can accomplish in a MAN. What you say is denying the Father and His work that He accomplished in a HUMAN that was in every way just like us. What you speak is denying His Son that is said to be a human born of the seed of David, born of God’s Spirit on a specific day. 

    You deny WHO the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son is, you change him from a MAN born of God’s Spirit which is the DEFINITION of CHRIST, to a pre-existing being, thus also denying CHRIST.

    The GOOD NEWS is that God saved HUMANS and that He did so through a HUMAN.  By one man’s OBEDIENCE through God’s Spirit He caused him to walk fully in His ways and follow His WILL, causing him to DENY his own will that follows after weak flesh.

    Don’t DENY LU Paul’s words that whoever is BORN of God does not sin. Don’t deny LU the OT that says the COMING MESSIAH of the SEED of DAVID would be BORN of God on a DAY. Don’t deny LU that the OT said that God would send this HUMAN anointed with His Spirit out into the world to preach the kingdom, to heal, to set people free.

    Don’t DENY LU that the MAN Jesus was the ONLY MORTAL MAN who remained WITHOUT SIN, thus that makes him clearly the Only begotten Son.

    Don’t DENY LU that the OT tells us that it would be the seed of David that God would MAKE His firstborn Son. You speak against this scripture and say a firstborn already existed.

    The many prophecies of Jesus throughout the OT speak plainly that he did NOT already exist, that he would COME forth to existence and that he would be a HUMAN and be a savior AMONG his PEOPLE. You LU speak against this scripture by saying a pre-existing son was necessary to be a savior.

    A HUMAN FROM the TRIBE of JUDAH is said to BE the SAVIOR. God DID not SEND a pre-existing son, He brought forth His promise that a HUMAN of the TRIBE of JUDAH would be SENT out into the world after being BORN of God. OT says that God would put His Spirit upon him and cause him to walk perfectly in His ways. 

    Don’t DENY LU that Abraham, David, and others were given the Spirit of God and acted upon FAITH having been given the knowledge of the COMING Messiah, that would lead to their resurrection.

    #831574
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Anthony,

    Jesus is the NAME given to the child of Mary.

    Anthony did God promise Abraham and David that of THEIR SEED a Messiah would be made?

    Hi Jodi,

    Mary was of the seed of David through her Father,
    and of the seed of Levi through her mother.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #831575
    Ed J
    Participant

    Please show me from the OT where an already existing God son would be sent to earth. Can you find one?

    Hi Jodi,

    “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of
    Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
    whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #831579
    Jodi
    Participant

    Ed J,

    Micah 5:2 (NIV) “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

     

     

    #831587
    Jodi
    Participant

    Ed J,

    The goings forth of a ruler over Israel that would be of the tribe of Judah was set BEFORE time even began, before God made the worlds and promised eternal life to humans. God is all knowing and knew the future, He directs the future, the future exists according to His work and plan.

    The verse in Micah 5 does not declare the pre-existence of Jesus, it declares that out of the tribe of Judah which came forth from Jacob and Leah back in Genesis a son from the tribe of Judah would be a ruler over Israel.

    Micah 5:2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

    Jesus is of the seed of David who was the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, and David is specifically from a small clan of the tribe of Judah,

    1 Samuel 17:12 Now David was the son of that Ephrathite of Bethlehemjudah, whose name was Jesse; and he had eight sons: and the man went among men for an old man in the days of Saul.

     

     

    #831624
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Ed J and ALL,

    GENERATION –a book of one’s LINEAGE in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated.

    Matthew gives the ancestry of Jesus going from Abraham to Joseph.

    That’s RIGHT, JESUS being of the blood of Joseph all the way back to Abraham!!

    How PERFECT is God’s word and His promises that went all the way back to Abraham, and then His word did become flesh!!

    Jesus had the DNA of Joseph that is precisely what Matthew tells us.

    So many deny this LINEAGE that occurred by the power of the Holy Spirit, only prophetic blindness could explain how some could possibly deny this simple written word of God.

    The simplicity of the clearly stated generations of Jesus is not seen or heard, even though ALSO the OT tells us clearly that of the SEED of David the Messiah would come forth, and even though the Hebrew tradition of inheritance comes through the father’s blood line. The Messiah came in the flesh as was promised by God from the seed of Abraham and David. But folks ignore this written word and turn to fables that align with PAGAN beliefs of a mighty man must be both a human and a god from heaven.

    They continue to ignore the written word even when I John declares that Jesus the Christ did in FACT COME to us in the FLESH, opposing the false beliefs that he was as the pagans believed part god.  Antichrist belief by John does not state that you are antichrist if you do not believe that Christ is both an eternal son and a human, it is simply stated that you must believe that he came in the FLESH, just as was promised.

    Folks continue to ignore the written word that DEFINES the Son of God as a PERFECT MAN who makes up the FULLNESS of CHRIST.

    BELIEVE in the GENERATIONS of Jesus and his blood line that was according to a promise, stop walking in the blindness of pagan ideas who have corrupted the simple word of God.

    1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;  3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; 14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; 15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

    #831628
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jodi, you are very good at defending that Jesus was a man according to the flesh…no one here disputes that. But He is also the Lord of lords of the OT who’s name is Jehovah along with His Father.

    1. In Zechariah 12 JEHOVAH is speaking (verses 1 and 4). In verse 10 Jehovah says, “They shall look upon ME whom they have pierced.” This can refer to no one other than Christ (compare John 19:37 and Revelation 1:7).

    2. The Jehovah of the Old Testament declares Himself to be the First and the Last: “Thus saith Jehovah the King of Israel and his redeemer the Jehovah of hosts; I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God: (Isaiah 44:6 and see Isaiah 41:4; 48:11-12). Who is declared to be “the first and the last” on the pages of the New Testament (see Revelation 1:8,11,17,18; 22:13)?

    3. In Isaiah 6:5 the prophet said, “Mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts.” Isaiah saw JEHOVAH! The Apostle John referred to this same event and made it very clear that the Person whom Isaiah saw was actually Jesus Christ: “These things said Esaias [Isaiah], when he saw His [Christ’s] glory, and spake of Him (referring in the context to Christ)” – John 12:41.

    4. In Psalm 23:1 David declared that JEHOVAH is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep. According to the New Testament, Who is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep (John 10:11,14: Hebrews 13:20)? Also, the Old Testament repeatedly refers to Jehovah as Israel’s ROCK (Deuteronomy 32:3, 4, 18; Psalm 18:2; Psalm 62:1-2; etc.). The New Testament clearly identifies this ROCK as Christ (1 Corinthians 10:4)!

    5. In Exodus 3:14-15 we learn that JEHOVAH is the great “I AM.” According to the Gospel of John, Who is the great “I AM” (see John 6:35; 8:12; 8:24; 8:58; 10:9; 10:11; 11:25; 14:6; 18:5-6)?

    6. In Isaiah 43:10-11 and 45:21 JEHOVAH declares Himself to be the ONLY SAVIOUR. There is no other Saviour besides Him! According to the New Testament, Who is the ONLY SAVIOUR (Acts 4:10-12)?

    7. In Isaiah 45:21-22 JEHOVAH says, “Look unto ME and be ye saved…there is none else.” In John 3:14-16 we are told to look unto the crucified One to be saved!

    8. In Isaiah 45:21-23 JEHOVAH says, “that unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.” In Philippians 2:9-11 this passage in Isaiah is applied to Christ, the One before Whom all shall someday bow!

    9. In Isaiah 24:23 and Zephaniah 3:15-17 we learn that JEHOVAH Himself will reign in Jerusalem during the coming kingdom age and will be in the midst of His people. What does the New Testament tell us about the identity of this future, millennial King (Revelation 19:11-16; 20:4,6)?

    10. In Isaiah 40:3 we learn that John the Baptist was to prepare the way for the coming of Jehovah. In Mark 1:1-3 the same passage is applied to Christ (John the Baptist prepared the way for Christ).

    11. In Isaiah 8:13-14 prophetically states that JEHOVAH will be “for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence.” In 1 Peter 2:7-8 these verses in Isaiah are applied to Jesus Christ.

    12. Compare Joel 2:32 with Acts 2:21,36 and Romans 10:9,13. Who is the LORD (Jehovah) upon whose Name sinners should call ?

    Finally we shall quote from Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer:

    “A distinct and extensive proof that Christ is Jehovah is to be seen in the New Testament title of Lord which is applied to Him upwards of a thousand times. Jehovah is a Hebrew term which is not brought forward into the New Testament. Its equivalent is the Greek term kurios (Lord), which title is also applied to the Father and the Spirit. It is a justifiable procedure to treat the name Jehovah of the Old Testament as continued in its specific meaning into the New Testament by the name Lord (kurios). Such would be the natural meaning of many exalted declarations: ‘Lord of all’ (Acts 10:36).‘Lord over all’ (Romans 10:12), ‘Lord of glory’ (1 Corinthians 2:8), and ‘King of Kings, and Lord of Lords’ (Revelation 17:14; 19:16).”

    In light of this it may be said that someday all shall confess that Jesus is LORD – see Philippians 2:11. It may be rightfully said that He is JEHOVAH JESUS!

    If Christ is really God, as the Scriptures so clearly teach, then how can we do less than believe on Him and love Him and obey Him and serve Him and worship Him? Can you say as Thomas did (John 20:28), “My Lord and My God“? IS THE ONLY LIVING GOD YOUR PERSONAL GOD AND SAVIOR?

    from here: http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/deity07.htm

    #831630
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    I am a useless servant only doing what I am told.

    ps 123

    Behold as the eyes of servants look to the sound of their master,

    as the eyes of a maid look to the hand of her mistress

    so our eyes look to the Lord, our God,

    until He is gracious to us

    #831631
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU…THE LORD (ADONIA, ALMIGHTY God) said unto my lord (Adoni a human ruler) sit on my side until i make your enimies your foot stool. It is so obivious that two different being are being spoken of there. Your making the LORD, JOHOVAH OR YEHWEH THE SAME AS Jesus who AS the one being spoken of there as sitting on the LORD, YEHWEH’S right hand, is wrong. The lower case lettering of the word lord, does not mean the same as the upper case LORD. IF YOU did a true research on those word you would find they are completely different in meaning, one means LORD THE ALMIGHTY GOD, WHILE the other lord means a human ruler, in fact that term lord is still used today to repersent rulers, judges, kings etc.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #831634
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    Most of your confusion over the nature of the Son would be resolved

    if you knew that God was in him and speaking through him.

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