- This topic has 3,676 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
It’s hard to have a open mind and lay one thought down and pick up another doesn’t God show you To do this once in awhile, that you have it wrong you, have to be humble pull your boots up stick you chest out pull your chin up. And walk in the way Of the Lord Jesus Christ
Hi Anthony,
I believe that the Son is eternal in the past being within the eternal Father until begotten from out of the Father. I believe that there is one God, the Father who is God together with His Son, united in spirit. I believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit make up one God in the fullest sense.
God bless,
LU
Jodi,
you said:
Any lamb that happens to be born without spot or blemish, doesn’t mean that they are going to go through their life remaining without spot or blemish, does it LU??
Any lamb that can be sacrificed as an unblemished lamb will remain unblemished till sacrificed. Jesus was born of God before creation to become the firstborn of all creation. Since He was an actual child of God the Father, He was just as perfect and flawless as His Father. You wouldn’t expect God the Father to beget a flawed offspring of His very own, from Himself. That offspring would be as perfect and flawless as His Father who happens to be God. Two who have the same essence…like two identical cells, each distinct but also exactly alike in nature and character.
Seems like you are in full denial that a human has to be BORN of God’s Spirit to REMAIN without sin.
Jesus was born spiritually of God before creation. He willing was sent to tabernacle in flesh within Mary’s womb to fulfill the mission of the promised Messiah. If the Bible says that He became flesh, I believe it. How He had the mind of a baby is a good question, one of which I have thought over and I have an idea. The Bible says that He emptied Himself. We aren’t told exactly what He emptied Himself of but I’m guessing that He willingly took on amnesia to have no memory. Entrusting His memory with His Father, He became a baby with the mind of a baby. Over time He grew in wisdom, taught by the Father and it seems that His memory was returned to Him over time.
I have explained it with this made up analogy:
Let’s say that Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, was kidnapped from behind and instantly knocked unconcious giving him amnesia. Then suppose he was put in an airplane and placed near a tribe of people who had no knowledge of the world beyond their jungle. When he awoke and found himself, stripped and beaten near a jungle and then discovered this tribe of people, would he still be the Prince, Duke of Cambridge. Yes, of course. Would he know that he was the Prince, Duke of Cambridge, no because he had a most severe case of amnesia. He wouldn’t even know there was such a thing. If his amnesia continued for a long time, he would become like the tribe of people that helped him survive. Then after time, he would begin to remember things of his past and proclaim them. Do you see the comparison? The one who exists as royalty, becomes a person that doesn’t remember anything yet still has his own same spirit within him. It is not a perfect analogy but it has helped me and others, perhaps this can help you also.
Philippians 2
6Who, being in very naturea God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very natureb of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Now, unlike the Prince in my example, Jesus willingly made Himself nothing and, by the Holy Spirit, was brought forth into Mary’s ovum as the actual spirit within the developing offspring, knowing nothing like every other baby. He who was rich became poor.
2 Cor 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich.
you said:
You deny CHRIST, as CHRIST is the MAN born of God’s Spirit, and by that he is a Son.
Yes, I deny that He became a son. I believe He always was a son. He always was a son, a son who was anointed by his Father before the foundation of the world to be
sent to the world in the form of a man in order to redeem man. He who was rich became poor so that we who are poor can become rich.
John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Blessings!
Hi Jodi,
It seems that you think everyone else is in denial.
Why are you exempt?
Jn 1.12
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, Even to those who believe in his name.
Eph1.13
In him you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-having also believed,
you were sealed in him with the Holy Spirit Of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance,
with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His Glory.
Rom8.14
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.
Many are stillborn as the taste of life given to them is not allowed to flourish.
Hi,
The Lamb of God was chosen from among the flock of God.
Born under the rule of the god of this world he was enabled to overcome lusts and remain sinless.
Then, empowered by the Holy Spirit he was enabled to break free from the domain of darkness and strip Satan of power.
If Satan had understood the plan of God he would never have got involved in the sacrifice of the lamb.
By his death the debt is repaid for all of us, and the rule of Satan over men can be finished.
Now millions can continue that freeing work for the Lord.
Lightenup
Begotten Is Not Eternal
If it is the case that the Second Person of the Godhead was begotten, he is not eternal God, for eternality is an intrinsic quality of deity. God is from “everlasting to everlasting” (Psa. 90:2).So here is a very important implication. If a doctrine by necessary implication negates the deity of Jesus Christ can one be considered faithful who espouses it?ContradictoryLanguageThe dogma is discredited logically by self-contradiction. To contend that the Son was eternally begotten is a manifest contradiction of terms. It is the equivalent of saying, “Christ had an eternal beginning.”
Can an object both begin and not have been begun? God bless. Anthony
H Anthony,
There is no godhead of three gods in one.
The word GODHEAD occurs 3 times in the KJV but each time has a different meaning.
Check it out.
Hi Anthony,
I never said that the Son was eternally begotten. I believe He was begotten during eternity past. See the difference. Also, do not equate the term “begotten” with “created.” The term “begotten” does not cause a beginning of existense. On the contrary, one begotten has to exist already so that they can be begotten. When you were begotten (born) you existed already for about 9 months.
I picture the Father and Son in eternity past before the Son was brought out of the Father as something like a parent cell that we were taught about in Biology. Picture a parent cell…one big cell with a smaller one that developed inside it. Let’s say that is like the father and son. It is one parent cell, yet there are two distinct cells, one within the other. When the father cell begets the son cell, the result is two identical cells…two in number, one in essence, father/son. If the Father is eternal, that requires the Son to also be eternal otherwise the Father would only be a potential father, not a father at one point, therefore there was a time when the Father was not a father. Also, if the Son is the same essence as the Father, the Son would be eternal since that is essential to their essence.
The Father is the one who beget, the Son is the one who was begotten. Very God from very God…Light from Light. Together they have their being and exist in perfect unity as one God. The Father exists because of the Son, the Son exists because of the Father. If there was a time when there was no son, then there also was a time when there was no father.
I hope that helps.
LU….IT IS AMAZING how you trinitarians , can build things in your minds, OUT OF THIN AIR, to justify your dogmas, but plainely deny, THE MAN Jesus’ own words, “for thou art the “Only” (true) God”. To me the word “Only” means (No) other, SO HOW COULD JESUS BE ANOTHER GOD?, You also deny scriptures that clearly say Jesus came from the loins of king David, And “unto us there is but “one” GOD, AND “ONE” MEDERATOR BETWEEN, (THAT ONE GOD) AND MAN, THE (MAN) JESUS CHRIST”.
Are those scriptures not in you bibles? DO YOU JUST THOW THEM OUT OF YOUR SCRIPTURES?
AS FAR AS SAYING Jesus is a son of God goes, scripture also say we are too. So where is the difference between him and us.
Bottom line is you tritarians move Jesus away from his brothers and sisters EXACT IDENITY WITH THEM, you have made him into your God, and you worship him as such also. 2 ths 2.
John told us, “little childern keep yourselves from idols”, idolatry is not accepted by GOD.
Frist commandment “thou shall have no other God beside me” , why does that no bother you people?
Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
Nick….You don’t know how much i have suffered in life, so why make that statement about me, my point was that parable had nothing to do with the rich man being any more of a sinner then the poor man, if i am wrong the show it, from the parable. Which you think is what is going on in your netherworld you believe in, where everyone is still alive, having never “really” died. As you false preach.
But the truth says, when a person dies he is not alive, No matter how hard you want him to be. The dead know nothing, when they die their thoughts have parished, they are truly dead and there bodies do corrupt in the grave, exactly as scriptures say. And they stay that way until they are resurected and their bodies restored back to them again, Or why even hope for a resurection from the dead, if there is none? Your belife in pagan teaching of a neither world has screwed up you understandings, IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Nick I didn’t say godhead of three where did you get that from is that what you would like to believe Nick I didn’t say no such thing.back up read some of my post God bless I thought we where talking before you just kind of stop. What you didn’t know what to say. God bless.
Nick It’s hard to see how many scripture you have to get around and leave alone. simple scripture that come right out and say what they want to say. They say what they say and mean what they mean. Your Doctorings get in the way of Scripture’s your trying to take scripture and trying to make them work for your Doctoring’s you have to leave alot of them out to make your doctoring’s work out. You need to let scripture make your doctoring’s God bless.
Lightenup I believe that The only begotten (birth) by the Father too. What your saying is that The only begotten Son was in the Father eternally? Do I have that right? God bless. I’ll have to look in to that thought thanks.
Anthony. Everything was in the Father. He is the source of all. Even the source of the son and the source of all spirits. The Father of Spirits.
The question is however, were all these potentials in God actually self-consciuos or alive as separate beings before being brought forth.
Probably not. Otherwise you would not need to bring them forth as all including you, existed in the mind of an eternal God.
But you exist in God now if you are of God. Was that always the case for all eternity? Thus, you would be as old as God.
In the BEGINNING was the Word and the Word was WITH God.
That’s it. There was God and the first to be with this eternal God was the Word. From there, all else came. Angels, Cosmos, Earth, plants, animals, man.
We should try not entertain fantasies of our own mind. Rather, let scripture reveal it to us.
Anthony,
you said
Lightenup I believe that The only begotten (birth) by the Father too. What your saying is that The only begotten Son was in the Father eternally? Do I have that right? God bless. I’ll have to look in to that thought thanks.
Yeah, we are in agreement on the birth by the Father before creation. While you are processing the idea of the Son being in the Father eternally, keep in mind that the Son is called “Jehovah our Righteousness.” The name Jehovah refers to His eternal existence.
Hi T8,
I don’t connect with what you said, “the first to be with this eternal God was the Word.”
God’s word is His word, just like your words are your words, the only difference is when God speaks it is backed up with righteous powers, ( Elohiym means POWERS, if you have never read “The Mechanical Translation of Genesis, I suggest you check it out).
Whatever God says comes forth. He speaks and what He says occurs, which with man this is not true. God’s word in the beginning was eternal life that He would bring to mankind. This word that He SPOKE of eternal life, is with Him and is Him, He is life, and He can bring eternal life to His created. God had a plan before He created the heavens and earth, and we see that plan was that by ONE MAN and his disobedience all would be brought to sin and death, and by another MAN through OBEDIENCE all would be brought to righteousness and eternal life.
God’s WORD was spoken to King David that by his seed, the second Adam would come and through him eternal life would come. This man would be born of God’s Spirit where he would REMAIN without sin through that anointing. That sinless man was as the brasen serpent Moses lifted up, if we believe that God through His Spirit kept a man to remain without sin, we accept the TRUE CHRIST, and know that God will likewise cause us to be born of God’s Spirit and be a child of God as Jesus is, we are given life, like those who looked upon the brasen serpent with faith were not killed after they were bitten.
Guess what T8, there became a huge PROBLEM, people started worshiping the bronze serpent, making it into a god, and denying that it was the work of God, and came forth because He SPOKE it.
People are doing the same thing with Jesus, they are making him into a false god.
Numbers 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
2 Kings 18:3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. 4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
5 Jesus answered,Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him,Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jesus just told you that a human MUST BE BORN of God’s Spirit to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus just told you the Son of MAN came down from heaven, meaning came from God, being born of God by God’s Spirit. Jesus tells you that as the serpent was lifted up the SON of MAN must be lifted up. Jesus tells you AFTER telling you that you must be BORN of God to enter His kingdom, that whoever BELIEVES in the SON OF MAN that came from heaven, has eternal life. He then tells you that you are to believe in the only begotten Son of God.
You want to disconnect the only begotten Son as Jesus JUST TOLD YOU what that means, a MAN being BORN of God’s Spirit, making him the SON of MAN that came from heaven, and turn him into a god, like the Israelites turned the brass serpent into a god.
There is NOTHING in the passage above that relates Jesus to being a pre-existing son. The Son of MAN that came down from heaven, is according to God’s word when he told King David, that of his seed God would place His Spirit upon him and MAKE him into a savior, and that he shall be a Father, and this seed of David shall be to him as a Son.
We are clearly told that to be a SON of God you must be born of God’s Spirit, as likewise that is what you need to enter His kingdom.
Go ahead T8 and LU and Anthony falsely worship Jesus just as the Israelites did with the brass serpent.
As David DESTROYED this false image, his seed that sits at God’s right hand will come down to earth and destroy your false image of him.
The Holy Spirit came upon Mary.
Did the son come upon himself to reproduce himself in the flesh?
What strange teaching is this.
Hi T8,
Yes, the spirit of Christ united with his father’s spirit at Jordan.
____________
God bless
Ed JHi T8,
I don’t connect with what you said, “the first to be with this eternal God was the Word.”
God’s word is His word, just like your words are your words, the only difference is when God speaks it is backed up with righteous powers, ( Elohiym means POWERS, if you have never read “The Mechanical Translation of Genesis, I suggest you check it out).
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God…
I think you will find that humans were not around, not even the Cosmos.
Go ahead T8 and LU and Anthony falsely worship Jesus just as the Israelites did with the brass serpent.
Okay.
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Yes he is the son of the living God and I honour him not only as the son, but as the messiah, and the Lord.
Amen.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
