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Hi Gene,
Do you find conflict in scripture?
Are the words of Jesus Christ not trustworthy to you?
Is logic applied to the OT more helpful?
Hi Gene,
Do you not believe that after his death Jesus visited the spirits in risen as Peter teaches?
Was he not alive in the Spirit as Abraham, Jacob and Isaac are?
Nick….His spirit might have, but his SOUL WAS DEAD, THAT IS TO SAY HIS “BODY” WITH THE BREATH OF LIFE “IN” IT, WAS DEAD and Dead does not mean still alive now does it?. AND ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES “WHEN A MAN DIES, HIS THOUGHT PARISH’. He is no longer a functioning SOUL. REMENBER SCRIPTURE ,
Psa 16:10… “for thou shall not leave my “SOUL” IN HELL; neither will you suffer your holy one to see corruption.”
Psa 30:3….”O LORD thou has brought up “MY SOUL” from grave: thou has kept me alive, that i should not God down to the pit”.
So Nick, what exactly was in Hell or the grave, was it his spirit that he commended to the Father, or his “BODY” and according to those scriptures it was his SOUL OR “BODY” that was in that GRAVE, AND WAS RESURECTED RIGHT?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
So the body of the rich man went to Hades, and conversed with Abraham?
You think the human spirit of the man Jesus went to visit the spirits in prison?
He told his disciples he would spend three days in the heart of the earth. Did he?
Hi Nick,
Can you please clarify as to what you think Peter was referring to?
WHEN did Jesus preach to spirits in prison? Who are these spirits that Jesus preached to?
You certainly could not be speaking about people who are dead, as the DEAD KNOW NOTHING!
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Some I have read believe that Jesus was preaching to spirits after he was dead and before he rose from the dead. This is absurd as those who die know nothing, they have no wisdom, nor do they do any work. Jesus being dead cannot preach to men that are dead.
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Isaiah 61: 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
1 Peter 3: 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
What did Jesus preach? That one must be born of water and of the Spirit. Our sins are forgiven through the blood of Christ but to enter God’s kingdom we must be born of water and of the Spirit.
John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
As Jesus went about preaching these things, he did likewise preach to those in prison, to the spirits of men in prison.
Hebrews 12: 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,… 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Galatians 6: 18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.
Jesus visited the spirits of men bringing their spirits into faith.
The passage could have just as EASILY said that Jesus visited the hearts in prison.
What Peter states is profound Jesus didn’t just visit men in prison and that was that, Jesus had an IMPACT on their spirits, God baptized them with His spirit and they believed in that which Jesus preached. These spirits became just men made perfect.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Romans 1: 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
These spirits went on to serve in the gospel of that which Jesus spoke to them in prison.
Romans 2: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the HEART, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God
Did not Jesus preach the below gospel before it happened? Who did he preach it to?
1 Peter 3: 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which ALSO he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
This is telling us that Jesus even preached to the UNJUST who were in prison a prison on EARTH.
“For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Where Jesus NEVER spoke was from the grave to dead decaying bodies or dry bones, unless you want to be delusional and tell me that the author of Ecclesiastes is a liar.
Hi Jodi,
1Peter3
‘Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water.’
So it refers to the souls of those who were alive in the days of the flood, before the law, who were disobedient, and God chooses to show them mercy in Jesus Christ.
Hi Jodi,
1 Peter 3.18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit,
by which he also went and preached to the spirits in prison.
He was led by the Spirit from the Jordan and the faithful Spirit of eternal life abided in him
and then he went to Hades to speak to those chosen by God for mercy.
Following this he was raised in the flesh.
Hi Jodi,
Ecclesiastes speaks of the dead, not those yet alive in the Spirit of life,
like Abraham , Isaac and Jacob, and Jesus Christ.
Nick,
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Those who died in faith are said to be asleep, they are waiting to be raised from the dead and given the promise.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly,Lazarus is dead.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Nick we are specifically told that the appearance of Moses and Elijah was a VISION. They saw them in a vision created by God.9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the VISION to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Nick what part of “as touching the resurrection of the DEAD” do you not understand as it relates to God being the God of the living and not the DEAD?
God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob when they are resurrected from the dead.
He is the God of those RAISED from the dead, who are brought from DEATH TO LIFE.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
Those that are Christ at HIS COMING, his coming back to earth when he comes to destroy all enemies.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:….13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Hi Jodi,
The anointing of God abides in the men of old who received it.
The gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Rom 11.29
‘I will never leave you or forsake you’ Heb 13.5
They are sons of God, sons of the resurrection even now while their revelation as such is awaited.
That is our hope too.
t
Hi Jodi,
2 peter.1.16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known to you thepower and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we’re eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory,
‘This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased’
And this voice which came from heavennet heard , when we were with him n the holy mount.
Lk9.30
And behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias who appeared in glory and spake he f his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
So because Matthew says it was a vision none of this actually happened?
Hi Gene,
You quoted
Ps 16 .10
For Thou wilt not leave my SOUL in hell;
neither wilt Thou suffer thine holy one to see corruption.
Hell and corruption are separate things.
The SOUL is not the body it lives in.
Nick….wrong brother we “are” living Souls, why because we are flesh bodies with the breath of life “in” us. Your ideas of still alive after we die is a false teaching, the dead are i b deed dead m until they are regenerated and resurected by the spirit of God. Nick you cant neglect clearly written scriptures.
Your view of ythe dead still living is wrong, was the rich man more a sinner t h en the poor man, “NO” HE WAS NOT, that parable was dealing with sufferings, not sin as you falsely assume. That parable only shown that suffering is appointed to all of us, those who are rich and avoid suffering will have to suffer later. Probably after they are resurected. You taking a parable and making it literal, all the while not getting the principle of that parable. YOU CAN’T FIND A SINGLE WORD ABOUT SIN IN THAT PARABLE.
You seem to want to hang onto mystery ideas of things still going on after a person dies. Scriptures show that is not true, Jodi and are both showing you the truth, of how to understand those kind of scriptures, haven’t you noticed that to see those things as you want makes you deny other clearly written scriptures?
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Gene,
Some standing here will not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
You need to study about the first and the second death.
Eternal Life in the Spirit begins now.
Forget about the flesh.
Nick…yes i believe i am now a living Soul, a human living SOUL, with the spirit of the living God in me. But I, as Jesus was, am subject to death in this existence as he was. But i as he believe in GOD the Father and his forgiveness of my sins, who can resurect this SOUL (body) and put the breath of life back into it). AND ONCE AGAIN I AFTER DEATH CAN BECOME A LIVING SOUL AGAIN. MY HOPE IS IN THE RESURECTION FROM THE DEAD, “THAT WILL WITTNESS THE “REDEMPTION” OF THIS “BODY” . It’s clearly written is scriptures, question is do you truly believe it Nick.
OR do you want to continue to believe that after you die you simply go to another place as a sentinel being of somekind in the neither world, as the pagans believe.
Nick, when people die they truly are dead, they no longer have a branch or root left. They are dead for ever, unless God the Father restores them back to life, again. Why do you think God said after he brings them back to life “THEN SHALL YOU KNOW I AM GOD”. Not before or alive in another state of existence as you believe, no, When we die we know nothing until we are brought back to life again. I assure of that, you don’t have to believe me, think about what Jodi is showing you Nick.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
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