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Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 12 2011,06:13) Paladin said: Quote All christians are in form God, as God lives in us and influences the changes in our lives. 
Jesus said, “You have not seen His form” (John 5:37). If all christians are in God form, then we have seen His form and Jesus was confused when He said that we have not seen His form.
o.k.Scripture also says we are “made in his image.”
Do you see his image anywhere?
Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 12 2011,05:25) terraricca,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Paladin – you have been very selective in answering my many question by only respond to a few, I am 76 years old, and tire without warning. I begin cancer treatment in two weeks. I am having too much fun to abandon the obard, with all the new friends I see here. You happen to be one of them, so patience with me will be appreciated.
For all of my friends out there on the board, please pray for me, but do not waste your time felling sorry for me, as God has already blessed me beyond what I had a right to expect. And he still is. As for responding to the posts, As time permits and God wills.
Quote this would make me to re post those questions ,and I would like to know if you believe in the preexistence of Christ ,yes or no. if no, in your answer then explain me why is that? according to the scripture data base;please Christ pre-existed only in prophecy. I realize there are many who do not think of prophetic utterances as a “pre-existant” but I happen to do so; in the same way God said to Abraham, “I shall make you the father of many natiions” followed in the next verse by “A father of many nations I have made you.” God considered the promised Messiah to be as real as his promise; and so did Paul who said “God, who speaks of things not yet as thought they were.”
When Jesus said “Abraham rejoiced to see my day” He was not speaking of Jesus being with Abraham, he was speaking of Abraham's faith as he believed in the promise God made to him. “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.” [Gal 3:8]
Paladin! I don't feel sorry for you, we all have die of something. However I will pray for you. Today cancer is not always a death sentence either. Georg and I both have Skin cancer. So may God be with you always. As far as Jesus preexisted there are clear Scriptures that He did. Even by Jesus own words. If you want to debate that, go to the right tread…I will bring it up for you, if nobody has posted there lately…..it is in the Truth or Tradition….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Baker @ Mar. 12 2011,10:26) Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 12 2011,05:25) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2011,02:52) Quote Paladin – you have been very selective in answering my many question by only respond to a few, I am 76 years old, and tire without warning. I begin cancer treatment in two weeks. I am having too much fun to abandon the obard, with all the new friends I see here. You happen to be one of them, so patience with me will be appreciated.
For all of my friends out there on the board, please pray for me, but do not waste your time felling sorry for me, as God has already blessed me beyond what I had a right to expect. And he still is. As for responding to the posts, As time permits and God wills.
Quote this would make me to re post those questions ,and I would like to know if you believe in the preexistence of Christ ,yes or no. if no, in your answer then explain me why is that? according to the scripture data base;please Christ pre-existed only in prophecy. I realize there are many who do not think of prophetic utterances as a “pre-existant” but I happen to do so; in the same way God said to Abraham, “I shall make you the father of many natiions” followed in the next verse by “A father of many nations I have made you.” God considered the promised Messiah to be as real as his promise; and so did Paul who said “God, who speaks of things not yet as thought they were.”
When Jesus said “Abraham rejoiced to see my day” He was not speaking of Jesus being with Abraham, he was speaking of Abraham's faith as he believed in the promise God made to him. “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.” [Gal 3:8]
Paladin! I don't feel sorry for you, we all have die of something. However I will pray for you. Today cancer is not always a death sentence either. Georg and I both have Skin cancer. So may God be with you always. As far as Jesus preexisted there are clear Scriptures that He did. Even by Jesus own words. If you want to debate that, go to the right tread…I will bring it up for you, if nobody has posted there lately…..it is in the Truth or Tradition….
Peace and Love Irene
I hardly think latching on to a 10,000 post thread is the place to try to convince anyone of anything.Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 12 2011,17:45) Quote (Baker @ Mar. 12 2011,10:26) Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 12 2011,05:25) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2011,02:52) Quote Paladin – you have been very selective in answering my many question by only respond to a few, I am 76 years old, and tire without warning. I begin cancer treatment in two weeks. I am having too much fun to abandon the obard, with all the new friends I see here. You happen to be one of them, so patience with me will be appreciated.
For all of my friends out there on the board, please pray for me, but do not waste your time felling sorry for me, as God has already blessed me beyond what I had a right to expect. And he still is. As for responding to the posts, As time permits and God wills.
Quote this would make me to re post those questions ,and I would like to know if you believe in the preexistence of Christ ,yes or no. if no, in your answer then explain me why is that? according to the scripture data base;please Christ pre-existed only in prophecy. I realize there are many who do not think of prophetic utterances as a “pre-existant” but I happen to do so; in the same way God said to Abraham, “I shall make you the father of many natiions” followed in the next verse by “A father of many nations I have made you.” God considered the promised Messiah to be as real as his promise; and so did Paul who said “God, who speaks of things not yet as thought they were.”
When Jesus said “Abraham rejoiced to see my day” He was not speaking of Jesus being with Abraham, he was speaking of Abraham's faith as he believed in the promise God made to him. “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.” [Gal 3:8]
Paladin! I don't feel sorry for you, we all have die of something. However I will pray for you. Today cancer is not always a death sentence either. Georg and I both have Skin cancer. So may God be with you always. As far as Jesus preexisted there are clear Scriptures that He did. Even by Jesus own words. If you want to debate that, go to the right tread…I will bring it up for you, if nobody has posted there lately…..it is in the Truth or Tradition….
Peace and Love Irene
I hardly think latching on to a 10,000 post thread is the place to try to convince anyone of anything.
hi PaladinI have been treated for prostate cancer now for almost a year,but I do not feel sorry for me or any one else that s the course of live where we all have to go ,I am your younger brother I am only 71 years old,I am still a kid,
and my prayers always go to those who love God and his son,as for the preexistance of Christ what i believe ,will not break our love for God and his son ,we know in our hearths that it is the true love for his truth and his righteousness that is most importante.
to us it is our final run in our tent and so let be happy to have known God and his son and all the promise its holds.
Pierre
Paladin! You got the wrong tread, it is the preexisting 2 you should look at. The reason, so many don't understand is that God has to do the convincing. I can't do that at all. all I can do is show you and others Scriptures. It is then up to God….. Peace and Love Irene
Paladin,
Quote Hmmm!! How do I respond to a negative question.
If your question is “Did you consider” the answer is yes.
If your question is “did you not consider” the answer is no. I did not not consider.Well sir, to be honest i wasnt trying to be aggresive, but if you want to go there i can.
Thats just the way i talk bro, at times my grammer can be horrible soooo deal with it?
Anyways, The reason i asked, was because I have no idea who you are or if you ever read the bible. So its better not to assume. Therefore i asked you a legit question if you have (not) considered those scriptures.
If i have no idea where you stand than How can i give you my own opinion or along what lines we disagree on.Quote John 1:1 has nothing to do with Jesus. It is dealing with the logos, which was both God and with God. Jesus was not. When John said “And the logos was God” he used inconvertible terms, which means “ho logos” and “theos” are not interchangeable. The necessary consequence of this is, when “ho logos” became flesh[verse 14], “theos” did not.
Let me break down your claims for you.
You stated:
1. “John 1:1 has nothign to do with Jesus”
(Why?)
2. “It is dealing with the logos, which was both God and with God. Jesus was not.”
And who told you that?
3.”When John said 'And the logos was God' he used inconvertible terms, which means “ho logos” and “theos” are not interchangeable.”
Yet John used non-interchangable terms to describe the beginning? So what do you believe he was really saying?
4.”The necessary consequence of this is, when “ho logos” became flesh[verse 14], “theos” did not.”
How is that so?
Explain that to me.Quote Nope! Jesus “made all things new” which references the new creation, not the original. Isaiah said “God (singular) monos [alone], created heaven and earth and all that is therein.” Jesus said when he and the Father are together, they are
“ouk monos” [not alone]; so if the Father “monos” created all things, where was Jesus?
That would contradict verse 15 in Collossains 1.
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist
Also Hebrews 1
10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:You cant just accept one part of scripture and Deny the rest.
A better question is who do you think Jesus is?
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:The Question is (being nice here) do you believe what these direct scriptures say or not?
Its very direct, they state that Jesus Christ created whether by or through, or however you want to believe it, the fact is that according to scripture or what these Apostles teach is that in the begining Jesus participated in the creation of the world with a role as a Creator.So your reference to Jesus making all things new? is untopical.
Quote That's what Paul was talking about when he said “the Gospel was preached unto Abraham…” And what Jesus was talking about when he said “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.” [John 8:56] – It is simply that Abraham was told in prophecy, the gospel story, believed it , and rejoiced for happiness.
Thats Speculation for many reasons. But ill be open minded and give you the benefit of the doubt.
Galatians 3:7-9 (King James Version)
7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
I believe Context clears up alot of things.The Point of Jesus next comments was to comment to the Jews the he again Pre-existed before Abraham which had nothing to do with Prophecy.
Why? because in his own statement in response to them asking how is it possible that he could know abraham when he wasnt actually there.
Jesus responseded, before Abraham, I am.
Which was a provoking statement that was going to get him stoned.Quote Agreed! It has everything to do with the promised Messiah, Abraham's reaction to the prophecies, and the fulfillment thereof. There is no trinity
The trinity concept is a man-made concept of trying to explain God by our own terms.
But doesnt mean that Jesus is not God, nor does it mean that God is not Jesus, nor that God does not have a Holy spirit.If anything I strongly believe that God cannot be explained because he is unknowable, and only knowable through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2011,11:23) Quote
hi PaladinI have been treated for prostate cancer now for almost a year,but I do not feel sorry for me or any one else that s the course of live where we all have to go ,I am your younger brother I am only 71 years old,I am still a kid, and my prayers always go to those who love God and his son,
as for the preexistance of Christ what i believe ,will not break our love for God and his son ,we know in our hearths that it is the true love for his truth and his righteousness that is most importante.
That is so well said, it carries its own blessing.
Quote to us it is our final run in our tent and so let be happy to have known God and his son and all the promise its holds. And all the friends God sends out way.
I have for a loong time considered that it is not what we believe within the parameters of Christianity, but how we live by what we believe that will judge us.
Thank you so much for such words.
Quote (Baker @ Mar. 12 2011,13:00)
Paladin! You got the wrong tread, it is the preexisting 2 you should look at. The reason, so many don't understand is that God has to do the convincing. I can't do that at all. all I can do is show you and others Scriptures. It is then up to God….. Peace and Love IreneWell said dear sister.
And grace and hope.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 12 2011,13:38)
Paladin,Quote Hmmm!! How do I respond to a negative question.
If your question is “Did you consider” the answer is yes.
If your question is “did you not consider” the answer is no. I did not not consider.Well sir, to be honest i wasnt trying to be aggresive, but if you want to go there i can. [/quote]
I did not say you were being aggressive. I said “Hmmm! How do I respond to a negative question?”
I was simply calling your attention to the fact I had to figure out what you were asking. THAT's not aggression, that's communication.
Quote John 1:1 has nothing to do with Jesus. It is dealing with the logos, which was both God and with God. Jesus was not. When John said “And the logos was God” he used inconvertible terms, which means “ho logos” and “theos” are not interchangeable. The necessary consequence of this is, when “ho logos” became flesh[verse 14], “theos” did not. Quote Let me break down your claims for you.
You stated:
1. “John 1:1 has nothign to do with Jesus”
(Why?)Because it is talking about the logos, not a man.
Quote 2. “It is dealing with the logos, which was both God and with God. Jesus was not.”
And who told you that?Mathew said Jesus was “begotten by the spirit.” [Mat 1:20]
If he was begotten, he had a beginning.Quote 3.”When John said 'And the logos was God' he used inconvertible terms, which means “ho logos” and “theos” are not interchangeable.” Yet John used non-interchangable terms to describe the beginning? So what do you believe he was really saying?
What non-interchangeable terms are you referencing about the beginning? What is the interchange you are referencing?
Quote 4.”The necessary consequence of this is, when “ho logos” became flesh[verse 14], “theos” did not.” How is that so? Explain that to me.
Because “ho logos” and “theos” are not interchangeable terms.
Look, my friend, at the difference between interchangeable terms and non-ionterchangeable terms in scripture:
SAMPLES OF CONVERTIBLE TERMS IN SCRIPTURE.
Mat 6:22 –
The light of the body is the eye:
O luxnos tou swmatos estin o opsthalmos.
[Converts to -[The eye is the light of the body]Mat 5:13
Ye are the salt of the earth:
umeis este to alas tees gees
Converts to -[The salt of the earth are ye]Mat 13:38
The field is the world;
de agros estin o kosmos
converts to -[the world is the field]the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
de kalon sperma outoi eisin oi uiois tees basileias
Converts to -[the children of the kingdom are the good seed]the tares are the children of the wicked one;
de zizania eisin oi uiois tou' poneerou
converts to -[the children of the wicked one are the tares]Mat 16:16
Thou art the Christ.
Su ei o xristoS.
converts to -[The Christ art thou]Mat 26:26
this is my body.
touto estin to swma mou.
converts to -[my body is this]Mat 26:28
For this is my blood
touto gar estin to aima mou
converts to -[my blood is this]John 8:12
I am the light:
Egw eimi to phws
converts to-[the light am I]John 10:7
I am the door
egw eimi ee thura
converts to-[The door am I]John 14:6
I am the way, the truth, and the life:
Egw eimi ee odos kai ee aleetheia kai ee zwee:
converts to- [the way am I; the truth am I; the life am I]SAMPLES OF INCONVERTIBLE TERMS IN SCRIPTURE
John 1:1
the Word was God.
theos een o logos
WHAT IS NOT SAID:[God was the word]John 1:14
the Word was made flesh
o logos sarx egeneto
WHAT IS NOT SAID:[flesh became the logos]I John 4:16
God is love;
O theos agapee estin
WHAT IS NOT SAID:[love is God]To say “ho logos” and “theos” are convertible results in Sabellianism, one of the earliest heresies of the church history.
Quote Nope! Jesus “made all things new” which references the new creation, not the original. Isaiah said “God (singular) monos [alone], created heaven and earth and all that is therein.” Jesus said when he and the Father are together, they are “ouk monos” [not alone]; so if the Father “monos” created all things, where was Jesus? That would contradict verse 15 in Collossains 1.
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist
Also Hebrews 1
10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:Not at all. Jesus is involved in the new creation, not the original. How then is it a contradiction? I see I already told you this and offered a statement from Isaiah, which you do not respond to. Care to tell us where Jesus was if God created heaven and earth alone?
Quote You cant just accept one part of scripture and Deny the rest. You mean like you just did? Did you “accept” Isaiah's account?
Quote A better question is who do you think Jesus is? Better than what? And why is your question better? Don't we both use questions to stir the other's mind? I think all questions can be good ones.
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,[/quote[Right! We were called before we existed. So was Jesus.
Quote Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:Correct! It's called the new creation, by which “all things are made new in Christ Jesus.”
Quote The Question is (being nice here) do you believe what these direct scriptures say or not? I believe what all scripture says, I do not believe everything men apply them to say.
Quote Its very direct, they state that Jesus Christ created whether by or through, or however you want to believe it, the fact is that according to scripture or what these Apostles teach is that in the begining Jesus participated in the creation of the world with a role as a Creator. Nope! God created heaven and earth alone, without Jesus.
Jesus made everything new, i.e., new creation.
Quote That's what Paul was talking about when he said “the Gospel was preached unto Abraham…” And what Jesus was talking about when he said “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.” [John 8:56] – It is simply that Abraham was told in prophecy, the gospel story, believed it , and rejoiced for happiness. Thats Speculation for many reasons. But ill be open minded and give you the benefit of the doubt.
Nope! That's the plain statement of scripture.
Galatians 3:7-9 (King James Version)
7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.I believe Context clears up alot of things.
The Point of Jesus next comments was to comment to the Jews the he again Pre-existed before Abraham which had nothing to do with Prophecy.
Why? because in his own statement in response to them asking how is it possible that he could know abraham when he wasnt actually there.
Jesus responseded, before Abraham, I am.
Which was a provoking statement that was going to get him stoned.I think you may be forgetting one of the most important pieces of prophetic history, my friend. I think you know very well, Jesus came to die for our sins,. and that the Jews were going to either kill him or have him killed. So anything he had to say would have gotten him killed. The Jews constantly took the wrong message from what Jesus said. And Jesus constantly said that the Jews did not understand what he said. So why is it a surprise when the Jews accuse him of anything?
Quote Agreed! It has everything to do with the promised Messiah, Abraham's reaction to the prophecies, and the fulfillment thereof. There is no trinity TO ALL……….the doctrine of “INCARNATION” is without a doubt one of the worst of all doctrine the fallen churches have come up with. It is all part of the PREEXISTENCE theology falsely taught about Jesus a MAN, having a past existence as a Being of some kind ( which by the way no one has yet to factually describe) Him preexisting and living. But not ONE Scripture Say Jesus ever Preexisted His berth as any kind of (BEING) whatsoever. If (ANY) Scripture (SPECIFICALLY) described His past existence as a “spirit or Angel” morphed into a human being i would like to see it (SPECIFICALLY SAY IT), not some conjecture where a scripture can be “FORCED” to come out that way but in fact does not really say that, so those in order to promote this false teachings have to add thought to it to try desperately to convience other of this LIE> As shown here many times. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………….gene
Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 13 2011,04:25) terraricca,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote
hi PaladinI have been treated for prostate cancer now for almost a year,but I do not feel sorry for me or any one else that s the course of live where we all have to go ,I am your younger brother I am only 71 years old,I am still a kid, and my prayers always go to those who love God and his son,
as for the preexistance of Christ what i believe ,will not break our love for God and his son ,we know in our hearths that it is the true love for his truth and his righteousness that is most importante.
That is so well said, it carries its own blessing.
Quote to us it is our final run in our tent and so let be happy to have known God and his son and all the promise its holds. And all the friends God sends out way.
I have for a loong time considered that it is not what we believe within the parameters of Christianity, but how we live by what we believe that will judge us.
Thank you so much for such words.
PaladinI will remain your brother in the spirit of Christ and the love for Gods righteousness
all my blessings to you
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2011,04:42) Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 13 2011,04:25) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2011,11:23) Quote
hi PaladinI have been treated for prostate cancer now for almost a year,but I do not feel sorry for me or any one else that s the course of live where we all have to go ,I am your younger brother I am only 71 years old,I am still a kid, and my prayers always go to those who love God and his son,
as for the preexistance of Christ what i believe ,will not break our love for God and his son ,we know in our hearths that it is the true love for his truth and his righteousness that is most importante.
That is so well said, it carries its own blessing.
Quote to us it is our final run in our tent and so let be happy to have known God and his son and all the promise its holds. And all the friends God sends out way.
I have for a loong time considered that it is not what we believe within the parameters of Christianity, but how we live by what we believe that will judge us.
Thank you so much for such words.
PaladinI will remain your brother in the spirit of Christ and the love for Gods righteousness
all my blessings to you
Pierre
Thank you. Greatfully accepted.Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 13 2011,16:09) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 13 2011,04:42) Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 13 2011,04:25) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2011,11:23) Quote
hi PaladinI have been treated for prostate cancer now for almost a year,but I do not feel sorry for me or any one else that s the course of live where we all have to go ,I am your younger brother I am only 71 years old,I am still a kid, and my prayers always go to those who love God and his son,
as for the preexistance of Christ what i believe ,will not break our love for God and his son ,we know in our hearths that it is the true love for his truth and his righteousness that is most importante.
That is so well said, it carries its own blessing.
Quote to us it is our final run in our tent and so let be happy to have known God and his son and all the promise its holds. And all the friends God sends out way.
I have for a loong time considered that it is not what we believe within the parameters of Christianity, but how we live by what we believe that will judge us.
Thank you so much for such words.
PaladinI will remain your brother in the spirit of Christ and the love for Gods righteousness
all my blessings to you
Pierre
Thank you. Greatfully accepted.
I said:
Quote Why in the world would you think to come FROM the DNA of Eve, Abraham, David and Mary, Jesus would have had to been a part OF that DNA as it moved down the generations? After all, YOU weren't a part of your own DNA as it moved down the generations from Adam and Eve, were you?
Paladin said:Quote You have it Backwards, my friend. The DNA is an integral part of me. Just as Jesus is the result, not the cause.
But that's what I'M claiming, so how is it that I have it backwards? Jesus in the flesh was the RESULT of DNA passed down. He wasn't “going along for the ride” within that DNA as it was passed down from generation to generation. Yet this seems to be what you have claimed. As if Jesus started to exist in the flesh the minute God prophsied about him.Is this what you claim, or did I misunderstand you when you said you believed Jesus to become “incarnate” in the seed of Adam and Eve?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 13 2011,15:13) Quote
But that's what I'M claiming, so how is it that I have it backwards? Jesus in the flesh was the RESULT of DNA passed down. He wasn't “going along for the ride” within that DNA as it was passed down from generation to generation. Yet this seems to be what you have claimed. As if Jesus started to exist in the flesh the minute God prophsied about him.Is this what you claim, or did I misunderstand you when you said you believed Jesus to become “incarnate” in the seed of Adam and Eve?
Tell me Mike, what do you understand to be the story told here? “And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. 7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.”[Heb 7:5-10]“For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.” [Heb 7:14]
If Levi paid tithes to Melchisedec because he was in the loins of his father Abraham when Abraham paid tithes to Melchisedec, then so did Judah, and so did Jesus. Do you understand the point the author of Hebrews is making? All progeny are in the loins of their forebearers, for every generation back to Adam. Otherwise, how is it fair to put the result of the sin of Adam upon the sons of man?
Hi Paladin,
I don't mean to sound like a “nitpicker”,
but I see 'a flaw' in what you are presenting.
Perhaps you can explain, after I expose the flaw.It sounds like you 'could' be saying, by your example,
Jesus (according to Paladin) was guilty of Adams sin being
in his loins(as DNA). Now I know you didn't actually say this, but
this is how the data fits together based on what you actually did say.
Please explain this (unforeseen) dilemma that you have presented to us?Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Paladin,
Here is how the dilemma is solved!
Only if we look at this as “seed”(and NOT D.N.A.),
is Jesus absent from Adam, because the “HolySpirit” is
Jesus' Father, not Adam. (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)
The seed lineage would then NOT GO BACK all the way to Adam;
Jesus would be the only progeny called the “Son of God”. (Isaiah 7:14)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgPaladin! I read what you said to Mike. What you are forgetting all of the Scriptures and I could list them, but I won't. Jesus is the Son of God, and Son of man. Period. DNA He left in His flesh. He is our ransom. That body is our ransom. That body does not exist any longer, God did away with it, otherwise the ransom, would not be a ransom….. And you would stay dead once you die…..So why worry about that body. Or do you believe, what some do, that He was resurrected in the flesh? If you understand the ransom, you will not think so…..
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Peace and love Irene
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 14 2011,00:02)
Hi Paladin,I don't mean to sound like a “nitpicker”, but I see 'a flaw' in what you are presenting. Perhaps you can explain, after I expose the flaw. It sounds like you 'could' be saying, by your example, Jesus (according to Paladin) was guilty of Adams sin being in his loins(as DNA). Now I know you didn't actually say this, but this is how the data fits together based on what you actually did say. Please explain this (unforeseen) dilemma that you have presented to us?
Your brother in Christ, Jesus![/quote]
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.” [Mat 1:1]
“… which was the son of Juda,
34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,
35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,
36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.” [Luke 3:33-38]Jesus was the son of Abraham, and the son of Adam, who was the son of God. Jesus did not inherit sin through DNA because the doctrine of original sin is a man made doctrine.
I did not say Jesus bore the sin of Adam, I said he bore the result of Adam's sin, which is why man was cast out of the paradise of the garden, and lives in a sin-cursed world. And required a blood-of-man-offering for sin.
Hi Paladin,
To me, it is still “unclear” as to what exactly you are saying?
Let me ask you a few questions that should help clarify your views; OK?1. Do you believe Jesus had a human father?
2. Do you believe the “HolySpirit” was Jesus' father?
3. Do you believe 'ONLY' Mary's lineage goes back to Adam?
4. Do you believe the bible meant D.N.A. as “seed”, and not male sperm?Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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