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Quote (Paladin @ May 22 2011,16:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 21 2011,14:53) Paladin, is Peter EXCLUDING all other authorities EXCEPT FOR kings and governors by his use of the word “whether”? YES or NO?
Yes! since it is the king who appoints the governors, how can there possibly be any other options? Peter himself excludes all others when he says ” Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; 14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him…(the king)“
So then it DOESN'T include “the cop on the corner beat” like you claimed a week ago? Your new claim is that Peter is saying we must subject ourselves ONLY to kings and governors?
Paladin, you had it right the first time. Since Peter used the word “EVERY”, the word “whether” is listing only a couple of the “EVERY”. Peter is NOT telling us we can ignore “the cop on the beat”, or the President, or the judge in the courtroom, is he? He is NOT really saying we can ignore everyone EXCEPT FOR kings and governors, is he?
How is anyone here supposed to take you seriously if you keep changing your clearly posted answers after you've been showed they don't fit in with your claims?
Do you acknowledge that your first answer to this scripture was that it included law enforcement even “down to the cop on the corner beat”?
Do you acknowledge that you've now changed that answer and are claiming it applies ONLY to “kings” and “governors”?
Why would you do that?
mike
Quote (Paladin @ May 22 2011,16:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 21 2011,14:53) This is a new question I've never asked before Paladin. I've seen where you belittled Irene for not knowing the meaning of “whether”. That is a direct lie Mike. Do not assign such nonsense to me. I never “belittle” anyone for not knowing a thing. Just because I question someone for not acknowledgeing something I have posted to them, I am not “belittleing” anyone for anything.
If Irens thinks I have made her look small because of something I hav eposted, let her speak for herself.
Paladin,These are the words you said to Irene:
Quote (Paladin @ May 20 2011,04:09) Still cannot comprehend the use of “whether,” Irene? That sounds like “belittlement” to me. And even if you didn't mean it as “belittlement”, what's worse: Me mistaking it for belittlement, or you saying that I directly lied?
Besides, it is apparently YOU, not Irene, who can't seem to comprehend the use of “whether” in a couple of scriptures.
Let's see how you respond to my last post about it, and then we might know for sure.
mike
Hi Thread Readers,
This is my understanding of the scripture being explored here.
Quote 1 Peter 2:12-15 (King James Version) 12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
This to me is a re-wording and expansion of Christ Jesus's words “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.”
The expansion part is the reason for doing this is so that those who are witnessed by those who work for the king or governor as police/peacekeeper or reporters of the quality of peoples words and actions will have no cause to arrest or harm God's people or have anything of ill-report to say about them. In modern terms this might be viewed as a public relations campaign in accordance with God's will to to build up a positive image in the minds of the “powers that be” and in the minds of non-believers of the these people proclaiming the gospel and new testament/covanent. The reason for the the phrase “whether it be to the king, as supreme;Or unto governors” is that these two governmental positions represent the authorities of the leader of countrys and the leaders of districts or states within the countries. The reason for the phrase “as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well” is to cover the enforcers of the law and the information gatherers(newspeople?) who would report to the authorities the activities of God's people.
I am certain this was addressed in a previous post by Paladin. Perhaps he did not word his post in a way that communicated this that was evident to all. It was evident to me. I took it upon myself to read 1 Peter from the beginning of the book up to this part in order to compose my post and express my own understanding in my own words.
In closing my post I would like to post this from earlier in the same book:Quote 1 Peter 1:21-22 (King James Version) 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Out of pure fervent love I will say to Paladin “No, it wasn't a lie on Mikes part it was a misunderstanding of the spirit behind the words you wrote when you asked Irene 'Still cannot comprehend the use of “whether,” Irene?'”. I recall right now without paging back through the thread that you posted numerous scriptures that prove you are understanding the grammatical use of whether correctly. I recall right now that you have explained that the “Logos of God” as expressed by Paul is “Christ in you” and that he preached this concept 48 years before the book of John was written at least 2 times in this thread. I recall that not many who post here have expressed that they were impressed with this truthful fact. I certainly was. It echoes Christ Jesus's(and also God's) teachings in Matthew, Luke, and Mark.Quote John 14:23-24 (King James Version) 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
This to me says that the spirit(mind) of God, the spirit(mind) of Christ Jesus and the spirit(mind) of Wispring or any true believer have the ability to live as one in perfect accordance with God's will/plan with enough faith and a true and full understanding of God's word. To be honest I am aware that I don't have a full understanding. My faith is unwavering so my hope is that God will grant me the grace and wisdom of a full understanding.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Paladin @ May 23 2011,10:26) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 23 2011,01:32) [/quote]
God did not create us in his image at the time of creation, but the Hebrew text say “Is creating us into his image” showing a ongoing process taking place in us all.“This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God [indicative aorist active – created] man, in the likeness of God [indicative aorist active -made] he him; 2 Male and female [indicative aorist active – created] he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were [indicative aorist active -created].” [Gen 5:1-2]
You possibly should rethink this one Gene, my friend.
Paladin………I do agree it appears that way in Genesis, But the Hebrew language has no word for CREATE or CREATING, it uses the word FATTING , God was Fatting the World as expanding it, Like fatting an animal. It seem to imply in Hebrew Language the God is expanding Man to become like him. I Got that from Jeff Benner Hebrew Scholar of original Hebrew language site. If you get time Check it out, i think you will find it quite enlightening as i believe Whispering has. He show the original PICTORIAL LANGUAGE used by the ancient Hebrews, like for instance the word GOD or Elohim, the original language was drawn as the head of an OX with a Staff along side it and the represented POWER the They Leaned On or trusted in. It is quite interesting and i think you could find it very interesting brother.peace and love to you and yours brother………………….gene
Hello Kerwin;
Quote (kerwin @ May 23 2011,12:28) Paladin, From what I understand the common Greek words “quen” and “qeov” in John 1:1 are both translated to the word “god” in English. The endings show what part of speech they are. I am curious to discover if each word is singular or plural and whether it is a subject, object, or what.
Both are singular constructions; ton theon is the object of the preposition “with.” Theos is the predicate nominative of the verb was “was.”
Quote Can either use be translated “a god” instead of “God”? That is still debated by scholars after two thousand years. The reason being, if “theos” is translated “a god” it gives credence to the Jehovah's Witness theology. If it does not, it makes problems everywhere else the indefinite article is supplied by the translators, of which there is a plentitude.
Quote You also mention John 1:14 in your discussion with Mike which has the common Greek word “egeneto” in it. To my understanding that word can be translated to the word “joined” so that John may have been teaching that The Word joined flesh which is just another way of writing the word dwelled in flesh. Is their a flaw in this understanding and if so what is it? I just finished a wordsearch and found only ten verses in the new testament where “joined” is the translation and none of them come from the Greek “egeneto.” I wonder as to the source of your understanding – is it a commentary? A scholar's remark?
“Egeneto” is actually a form of the Greek word ginomai, normally translated “to become,” or “come to pass,” sometimes “happened,” or most anything of a similar nature.
Sometimes the version of translation will explain the difference. My reference is almost always the KJV; or the LXX which has nothing to do with the new testament other than as a source for Jesus and the disciples for quotes.
Wispring & All: The scriptures quoted……”13–Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme…..”
and:
14–Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well…” remind me of the old test. story about three hebrew kids. It seems to me that they would not submit to the Kings orders or anybodies orders but God which made the King was so mad he fired up the furnace seven times hotter to kill them for their insubordination. God saved them from the destructive fires intended to kill them.If anyone on this site believes that God has placed only good people or Godly or even his own choice of persons, into all the positions of government around the world they are just plain foolish.
It most likely is a messed up translation that the translators thought it actually meant but nevertheless whether Paul made a mistake or the translators got it wrong for me I have but one God and saviour Jesus that I follow. If I break laws from mankind there are penalties I will have to pay. I will reap what I sow is the promise of God. Just a thought. IMO, TK
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 23 2011,14:41) Quote (Paladin @ May 22 2011,16:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 21 2011,14:53) Paladin, is Peter EXCLUDING all other authorities EXCEPT FOR kings and governors by his use of the word “whether”? YES or NO?
Yes! since it is the king who appoints the governors, how can there possibly be any other options? Peter himself excludes all others when he says ” Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; 14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him…(the king)“
So then it DOESN'T include “the cop on the corner beat” like you claimed a week ago? Your new claim is that Peter is saying we must subject ourselves ONLY to kings and governors? Paladin, you had it right the first time. Since Peter used the word “EVERY”, the word “whether” is listing only a couple of the “EVERY”. Peter is NOT telling us we can ignore “the cop on the beat”, or the President, or the judge in the courtroom, is he? He is NOT really saying we can ignore everyone EXCEPT FOR kings and governors, is he?
How is anyone here supposed to take you seriously if you keep changing your clearly posted answers after you've been showed they don't fit in with your claims?
Do you acknowledge that your first answer to this scripture was that it included law enforcement even “down to the cop on the corner beat”?
Do you acknowledge that you've now changed that answer and are claiming it applies ONLY to “kings” and “governors”?
Why would you do that?
mike
Mike, I have not changed anything. It is your attempt to meddle with my words that makes everyting I say loook like something else.If you go back and post what I actually say, and post under my words, the words you ar einserting to make it look like something else, you will see why you are so bewildered by everything I say.
If you will just take my words, and stop trying to figure out some secret meaning, or some alternate reference you may begin to see what my words are actually saying.
as for the cop on the corner, it even includes the nun in the classroom, if authority is of an hierarchial nature, and the king supports those whom he appoints, which in turn would include thoe whom his governors appoint, and those whom his appointees would appoint, they are all subordinate appointees of those who are appointed by the king as supreme, therefore, are included in the two choices, the king as supreme, or to governors as appointed by the supreme king.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 23 2011,14:51) Quote (Paladin @ May 22 2011,16:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 21 2011,14:53) This is a new question I've never asked before Paladin. I've seen where you belittled Irene for not knowing the meaning of “whether”. That is a direct lie Mike. Do not assign such nonsense to me. I never “belittle” anyone for not knowing a thing. Just because I question someone for not acknowledgeing something I have posted to them, I am not “belittleing” anyone for anything.
If Irens thinks I have made her look small because of something I hav eposted, let her speak for herself.
Paladin,These are the words you said to Irene:
Quote (Paladin @ May 20 2011,04:09) Still cannot comprehend the use of “whether,” Irene? That sounds like “belittlement” to me. And even if you didn't mean it as “belittlement”, what's worse: Me mistaking it for belittlement, or you saying that I directly lied?
Besides, it is apparently YOU, not Irene, who can't seem to comprehend the use of “whether” in a couple of scriptures.
Let's see how you respond to my last post about it, and then we might know for sure.
mike
Mike, listen to yourself before you post.Go back and look at how many times Irene has told me she was raised in Germany, and speaks German. Because she has been in America for a number of years, I feel it is safe to assume she probably understands most of the words I post to her. My assumption is no guarantee. when I post to her several times and she returns with questions about a word, it is a safe question for me to ask her if she comprehends
“whether” or if it is giving her trouble.You need to quit trying to protect Irene so much and pay closer attention to your own words.
If Irene comprehends “whether” as used in scripture, she should be able to comprehend its use in Col 1:16.
Before you attempt another of your “tests” of my com0prehension, why don't you look at the verses I posted to you, and show me which of them misuses “whether?”
Quote (Wispring @ May 23 2011,19:57) Hi Thread Readers, This is my understanding of the scripture being explored here.
Quote 1 Peter 2:12-15 (King James Version) 12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
This to me is a re-wording and expansion of Christ Jesus's words “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.”
The expansion part is the reason for doing this is so that those who are witnessed by those who work for the king or governor as police/peacekeeper or reporters of the quality of peoples words and actions will have no cause to arrest or harm God's people or have anything of ill-report to say about them. In modern terms this might be viewed as a public relations campaign in accordance with God's will to to build up a positive image in the minds of the “powers that be” and in the minds of non-believers of the these people proclaiming the gospel and new testament/covanent. The reason for the the phrase “whether it be to the king, as supreme;Or unto governors” is that these two governmental positions represent the authorities of the leader of countrys and the leaders of districts or states within the countries. The reason for the phrase “as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well” is to cover the enforcers of the law and the information gatherers(newspeople?) who would report to the authorities the activities of God's people.
I am certain this was addressed in a previous post by Paladin. Perhaps he did not word his post in a way that communicated this that was evident to all. It was evident to me. I took it upon myself to read 1 Peter from the beginning of the book up to this part in order to compose my post and express my own understanding in my own words.
In closing my post I would like to post this from earlier in the same book:Quote 1 Peter 1:21-22 (King James Version) 21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Out of pure fervent love I will say to Paladin “No, it wasn't a lie on Mikes part it was a misunderstanding of the spirit behind the words you wrote when you asked Irene 'Still cannot comprehend the use of “whether,” Irene?'”. I recall right now without paging back through the thread that you posted numerous scriptures that prove you are understanding the grammatical use of whether correctly. I recall right now that you have explained that the “Logos of God” as expressed by Paul is “Christ in you” and that he preached this concept 48 years before the book of John was written at least 2 times in this thread. I recall that not many who post here have expressed that they were impressed with this truthful fact. I certainly was. It echoes Christ Jesus's(and also God's) teachings in Matthew, Luke, and Mark.Quote John 14:23-24 (King James Version) 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
This to me says that the spirit(mind) of God, the spirit(mind) of Christ Jesus and the spirit(mind) of Wispring or any true believer have the ability to live as one in perfect accordance with God's will/plan with enough faith and a true and full understanding of God's word. To be honest I am aware that I don't have a full understanding. My faith is unwavering so my hope is that God will grant me the grace and wisdom of a full understanding.With Love and Respect,
Wispring
What a blessing you are to the board Wispering.I must haste to apologize to Mike, because you are correct, in my estimation, rather than my own assessment of what has been said.
Thank you.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 23 2011,14:51) Quote (Paladin @ May 22 2011,16:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 21 2011,14:53) This is a new question I've never asked before Paladin. I've seen where you belittled Irene for not knowing the meaning of “whether”. That is a direct lie Mike. Do not assign such nonsense to me. I never “belittle” anyone for not knowing a thing. Just because I question someone for not acknowledgeing something I have posted to them, I am not “belittleing” anyone for anything.
If Irens thinks I have made her look small because of something I hav eposted, let her speak for herself.
Paladin,These are the words you said to Irene:
Quote (Paladin @ May 20 2011,04:09) Still cannot comprehend the use of “whether,” Irene? That sounds like “belittlement” to me. And even if you didn't mean it as “belittlement”, what's worse: Me mistaking it for belittlement, or you saying that I directly lied?
Besides, it is apparently YOU, not Irene, who can't seem to comprehend the use of “whether” in a couple of scriptures.
Let's see how you respond to my last post about it, and then we might know for sure.
mike
I apologize Mike, after reading Wispering's post, I realize I am in error as to the meaning of your post to me.Allow me time to back off and rethink our exchanges.
later…
Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 24 2011,00:31) Wispring & All: The scriptures quoted……”13–Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme…..”
and:
14–Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well…” remind me of the old test. story about three hebrew kids. It seems to me that they would not submit to the Kings orders or anybodies orders but God which made the King was so mad he fired up the furnace seven times hotter to kill them for their insubordination. God saved them from the destructive fires intended to kill them.If anyone on this site believes that God has placed only good people or Godly or even his own choice of persons, into all the positions of government around the world they are just plain foolish.
It most likely is a messed up translation that the translators thought it actually meant but nevertheless whether Paul made a mistake or the translators got it wrong for me I have but one God and saviour Jesus that I follow. If I break laws from mankind there are penalties I will have to pay. I will reap what I sow is the promise of God. Just a thought. IMO, TK
Actually Tim, God sometimes puts very wicked people in charge, because he gives us the kind of leaders we have grown to deserve.We are murdering our unborn, making homosexxuality acceptable in society, and discouraging any who would peak out against those terrible behaviours.
And that's besides the corrupted judges, thieving politicians, and lying lawyers who have their hand in seemingly every pie.
Paladin…….Brother , i have noticed you have not dealt with some of the questions i brought out here , so i will try to slow it down to as you a few questions, and this is it Spirit to me (IS) the intellect of the mind it gives the cognate ability to the mind to percieve thoughts, it is what life is. When we are told to try the Spirits to see if (THEY) are of or From GOD, are we not trying the MIND of a Person who is expressing what is (IN) HIM to us.
Does not the words proceed forth from the Heart of a man as Jesus said they did, are we not told to let this mind be in us as was in Christ (the anointed) Jesus. Tell me this brother, When Jesus uttered “DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND IN THREE DAYS (I) SHALL RAISE (IT) UP”, was it Jesus or GOD (IN) him Speaking?. When Paul said “KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOUR BODY (IS) THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD. That to me Shows GOD is (IN) a Person who Has his SPIRIT (intellect) abiding (IN) HIM. I still believe GOD the Father LIVES Vicariously (IN) and Through his creation and give HIS CREATION it life Force. Words whether LOGOS or REMMA are just expressions of that POWER of (INTELLECT) uttered by any Being whether GOD or MAN. All word proceed from the MIND and therefore GOD and the LOGOS Word are one and the same thing.
When John say in (THE) definite article , Beginning He did not say in a different beginning the the actual beginning of (ALL) thing or new created thing But used the the words (THE BEGINNING) we have no reason to think he was referencing the beginning of a (New) creation . and So the if we assume the beginning (WAS GOD) as said . we must assume John was still talking about the Beginning because the beginning is a WAS if it is in the past right?> I do believe Jesus is the FIRSTBORN into the Kingdom of GOD and He is the Proto type of what God has in Mind for all man kind, and God the Father has started a new creation in Jesus, please don;t misunderstand me i do know that. But John in 1;1 to me was not addressing that issue.
How can GOD and HIS WORDS Be Separated God word (ARE) the SPIRIT (intellect) of the LIVING GOD, Jesus said “the word i am telling (ARE) Spirit (AND) LIFE, did he not say that. GOD LIVES VICARIOUSLY (IN) US BY His Spirits (intellects) which produces His Logos or words we speak. God very presents is in his LOGOS (IF) a Person is able to (PERCEIVE) them. And that ability takes the POWER From GOD Himself, and this is how GOD is (IN) us and Jesus, it is by HIS (POWER) to infuse his thoughts expressed in Words into our MINDS.
When it say Christ in you the Hope of Glory , that to me is saying the CHRISTOS (ANOINTING SPIRIT (INTELLECT) OF GOD THE FATHER IS (IN) THOSE WHO HAVE IT. That is not saying Jesus is (IN) us but God the Father is (IN) us via his SPIRIT through the CHRISTOS (anointing we recieve) just as he was (IN) Jesus also. IMOBrother we may have to agree to simple disagree on that issue at this time, not saying you are wrong , but perhaps i just can't quite get my mind to totally agree yet my brother. I am reading what you say and truly thinking about it though.
peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………gene
Quote
This to me says that the spirit(mind) of God, the spirit(mind) of Christ Jesus and the spirit(mind) of Wispring or any true believer have the ability to live as one in perfect accordance with God's will/plan with enough faith and a true and full understanding of God's word. To be honest I am aware that I don't have a full understanding. My faith is unwavering so my hope is that God will grant me the grace and wisdom of a full understanding.With Love and Respect,
WispringHi Wispring, Good post. I agree that we all fall short of the glory of God. I also believe that like myself, don't want to go into any Greek/ my believe is that mostly the Translators too were inspired by God. I don't know if all know that it was a Catholic Monks that took little pieces of the Gospels and put them into a Book, which is the Bible, at least part of it. Georg my Husband has studied Ancient History, and He told me that until the 1800 hundreds year, the Bible only was avaible to the Catholic Authority. Anyone else who was found with the Bible was put to death. How much truth is to it, I have no idea.
We all are trying to tell how we see the truth. We also miss sometimes, what the Word of God shows. take the Scripture you quoted in JohnJhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Throughout the Gospel of John, He tells what Jesus said. You missed the part where it says “but the Father's which sent me.
there are several Scriptures that say “He sent me.” I don't remember if I ask before. Where did His Father sent Jesus from??? Then we have the Scripture that says “He came down from Heaven, to do not His own will, but the will of Him that sent me.”
Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.Thank you for your post, and may God be always with you, Irene
Quote (Paladin @ May 24 2011,00:53) Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 24 2011,00:31) Wispring & All: The scriptures quoted……”13–Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme…..”
and:
14–Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well…” remind me of the old test. story about three hebrew kids. It seems to me that they would not submit to the Kings orders or anybodies orders but God which made the King was so mad he fired up the furnace seven times hotter to kill them for their insubordination. God saved them from the destructive fires intended to kill them.If anyone on this site believes that God has placed only good people or Godly or even his own choice of persons, into all the positions of government around the world they are just plain foolish.
It most likely is a messed up translation that the translators thought it actually meant but nevertheless whether Paul made a mistake or the translators got it wrong for me I have but one God and saviour Jesus that I follow. If I break laws from mankind there are penalties I will have to pay. I will reap what I sow is the promise of God. Just a thought. IMO, TK
Actually Tim, God sometimes puts very wicked people in charge, because he gives us the kind of leaders we have grown to deserve.We are murdering our unborn, making homosexxuality acceptable in society, and discouraging any who would peak out against those terrible behaviours.
And that's besides the corrupted judges, thieving politicians, and lying lawyers who have their hand in seemingly every pie.
Paladin! I agree. have I ask you if you watch Glenn Beck? I think you said your wife does? Well, He has some good people still on His show. I also don't believe that America will change. I believe all is permitting this in order to bring One World Government about.
That will of course not happen. Before then I believe Christ will return, and set all straight…. To that day I am forever looking forward to….Peace be with you and yours, IreneQuote (Paladin @ May 24 2011,00:53) Quote (Tim Kraft @ May 24 2011,00:31) Wispring & All: The scriptures quoted……”13–Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme…..”
and:
14–Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well…” remind me of the old test. story about three hebrew kids. It seems to me that they would not submit to the Kings orders or anybodies orders but God which made the King was so mad he fired up the furnace seven times hotter to kill them for their insubordination. God saved them from the destructive fires intended to kill them.If anyone on this site believes that God has placed only good people or Godly or even his own choice of persons, into all the positions of government around the world they are just plain foolish.
It most likely is a messed up translation that the translators thought it actually meant but nevertheless whether Paul made a mistake or the translators got it wrong for me I have but one God and saviour Jesus that I follow. If I break laws from mankind there are penalties I will have to pay. I will reap what I sow is the promise of God. Just a thought. IMO, TK
Actually Tim, God sometimes puts very wicked people in charge, because he gives us the kind of leaders we have grown to deserve.We are murdering our unborn, making homosexxuality acceptable in society, and discouraging any who would peak out against those terrible behaviours.
And that's besides the corrupted judges, thieving politicians, and lying lawyers who have their hand in seemingly every pie.
Paladin and Tim………..I agree with that statement , sometimes God give what wicked people are doing back to them, and other times he punishes them for they ways, Perhaps all the thing happening in the world today and in this country is GOD trying to get our attention. Seem as we drift into more wickedness the more the world slips into wickedness the more things are happing look at all the natural disaster taking place all over the world , i do believe we are in the very end times, when Jesus will be returning and set up His kingdom on the earth.I believe the big one will be when something comes through pour Galaxy and the Powers that lock the heavens together (Gravity) will be shaken causing the seas to roar and people will die of heart failure looking at that thing that is coming ON the Earth. I believe that in the near future our astrologers will announce a major Celestial event taking place and the whole earth will go to and fro like a drunkard because of the gravity being effected. I got that from Luke where Jesus was describing the events on earth just before his return.
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Quote (terraricca @ May 23 2011,11:04) Paladin Quote Wrong, my friend, I see God as he reveals himself in his writings – i.e., he has heart and soul, hands, feet, arms, eyes, ears, etc, and sings. None of which changes the fact hs is spirit. Look, my friend, God is the real. He is spirit, with spirit hands, spirit feet, spirit ears and eyse, and etc.
We are imitations, made in his image, in flesh. Just because we consider ourselves to be the real, does not make it so. We are the image of the real.
As ffor God's word existing only in the mind of a person, please explain to me then, what is the scripture? Is that only in my mind? Does my mind see it precisely as your mind does?
Both logos and reema are found in scripture. logos can be corrupted, because it warps concepts; reema can be accepted or rejected, because it is a written record of words telling about things that are understood in concepts. Niether are “only in our minds.”
When God began his creative effort, and spoke into existance all that ther eis, there was no ear to hear, yet the logos was real, and so also was the reema; and some things are written in heaven. So God's word is not just in the hearts of men. When God spoke and a berar came forth and killed according tohis word, what man had that in his mind?
you are saying that i am wrong again ,it seems that only you understand Gods word,but it seems that we have to believe your way of seeing things and that would be a blessing for us ,and this without showing a scripture to back up your vindication .
you have lost me ,because you force me to learn Greek,and you believe that this would do the truck,
your opinion on your views are not supported by scriptures at the least not all of it,
Quote Look, my friend, God is the real. He is spirit, with spirit hands, spirit feet, spirit ears and eyes, and etc. We are imitations, made in his image, in flesh. Just because we consider ourselves to be the real, does not make it so. We are the image of the real
where does it say that men creation is an imitation ;?
is the image means imitation??
so that we are mic mic like an ape imitates his master all Gods jesthers ?
Quote When God began his creative effort, and spoke into existance all that ther eis, there was no ear to hear Ps 94:9 Does he who implanted the ear not hear?
Does he who formed the eye not see?I wander what he looks like your god?
Pierre
TDo you know what an “imitation” is?
Quote (Paladin @ May 24 2011,13:04) Quote (terraricca @ May 23 2011,11:04) Paladin Quote Wrong, my friend, I see God as he reveals himself in his writings – i.e., he has heart and soul, hands, feet, arms, eyes, ears, etc, and sings. None of which changes the fact hs is spirit. Look, my friend, God is the real. He is spirit, with spirit hands, spirit feet, spirit ears and eyse, and etc.
We are imitations, made in his image, in flesh. Just because we consider ourselves to be the real, does not make it so. We are the image of the real.
As ffor God's word existing only in the mind of a person, please explain to me then, what is the scripture? Is that only in my mind? Does my mind see it precisely as your mind does?
Both logos and reema are found in scripture. logos can be corrupted, because it warps concepts; reema can be accepted or rejected, because it is a written record of words telling about things that are understood in concepts. Niether are “only in our minds.”
When God began his creative effort, and spoke into existance all that ther eis, there was no ear to hear, yet the logos was real, and so also was the reema; and some things are written in heaven. So God's word is not just in the hearts of men. When God spoke and a berar came forth and killed according tohis word, what man had that in his mind?
you are saying that i am wrong again ,it seems that only you understand Gods word,but it seems that we have to believe your way of seeing things and that would be a blessing for us ,and this without showing a scripture to back up your vindication .
you have lost me ,because you force me to learn Greek,and you believe that this would do the truck,
your opinion on your views are not supported by scriptures at the least not all of it,
Quote Look, my friend, God is the real. He is spirit, with spirit hands, spirit feet, spirit ears and eyes, and etc. We are imitations, made in his image, in flesh. Just because we consider ourselves to be the real, does not make it so. We are the image of the real
where does it say that men creation is an imitation ;?
is the image means imitation??
so that we are mic mic like an ape imitates his master all Gods jesthers ?
Quote When God began his creative effort, and spoke into existance all that ther eis, there was no ear to hear Ps 94:9 Does he who implanted the ear not hear?
Does he who formed the eye not see?I wander what he looks like your god?
Pierre
TDo you know what an “imitation” is?
Paladinwhich one ;ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. imitation – the doctrine that representations of nature or human behavior should be accurate imitations
doctrine, ism, philosophical system, philosophy, school of thought – a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school
mimesis – the imitative representation of nature and human behavior in art and literature
formalism – the doctrine that formal structure rather than content is what should be represented
2. imitation – something copied or derived from an original
copy – a thing made to be similar or identical to another thing; “she made a copy of the designer dress”; “the clone was a copy of its ancestor”
fake, sham, postiche – something that is a counterfeit; not what it seems to be
counterfeit, forgery – a copy that is represented as the original
3. imitation – copying (or trying to copy) the actions of someone else
copying – an act of copying
echo – an imitation or repetition; “the flower arrangement was created as an echo of a client's still life”
emulation – effort to equal or surpass another
mimicry – the resemblance of an animal species to another species or to natural objects; provides concealment and protection from predators
4. imitation – a representation of a person that is exaggerated for comic effect
caricature, impersonation
mock-heroic – a satirical imitation of heroic verse
humor, wit, witticism, wittiness, humour – a message whose ingenuity or verbal skill or incongruity has the power to evoke laughter
parody, pasquinade, put-on, sendup, spoof, charade, lampoon, mockery, burlesque, travesty, takeoff – a composition that imitates or misrepresents somebody's style, usually in a humorous way
Adj. 1. imitation – not genuine or real; being an imitation of the genuine article; “it isn't fake anything; it's real synthetic fur”; “faux pearls”; “false teeth”; “decorated with imitation palm leaves”; “a purse of simulated alligator hide”
faux, simulated, fake, false
artificial, unreal – contrived by art rather than nature; “artificial flowers”; “artificial flavoring”; “an artificial diamond”; “artificial fibers”; “artificial sweeteners”it seems you are using very liberal words
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2011,14:56) Marty NO;it is MAN ; but how can a man be in the form of God?
Pierre
Hi Pierre:He was and is a man, but by the authority given him by God as his Christ, he was in the form of God. Here is an example:
Quote 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. 6But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
12And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 24 2011,14:44) Quote (terraricca @ May 22 2011,14:56) Marty NO;it is MAN ; but how can a man be in the form of God?
Pierre
Hi Pierre:He was and is a man, but by the authority given him by God as his Christ, he was in the form of God. Here is an example:
Quote 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. 6But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.
12And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyI know that ;Ex 4:16 He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him.
Jesus was god in the same way ,his disciples talk to us trough there written words about God and his Christ.
do not make Christ what scriptures do not support.
Pierre
Marty
Ex 4:11 The LORD said to him, “Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
Ex 4:12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.”
Ex 4:13 But Moses said, “O Lord, please send someone else to do it.”
Ex 4:14 Then the LORD'S anger burned against Moses and he said, “What about your brother, Aaron the Levite? I know he can speak well. He is already on his way to meet you, and his heart will be glad when he sees you.
Ex 4:15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do.in those scriptures do you see something that was not the same as in Jesus works.?
Pierre
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