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Irene………your mixing up who wrote that it was not Marty but me. And i did not say calling a Ship a Bird, i said calling a ship a She, that does not make the ship a she now does it, and you husband calling you honey does not make you a piece of honey now does it, these are just descriptors of some kind, but never the real thing. That is my point here Jesus being called the word of GOD does not Make him the word of GOD now or ever before either. GOD is His OWN WORD. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………gene
Shimmer and Gene,
I believe the earth side of Jesus was cloned from Mary and one of his his chromosomes was mutated to a y-chromosome by the creative force of God's Spirit.
God breathed the human spirit side of Jesus into the earth side and Jesus was conceived.
He also received the Spirit of Christ as Advocate while in the womb of his mother.
He became (was made) the Son of God because he always lived according to the Spirit of Sanctification and thus never fell short of the glory of God.
Kerwin, Gene and Marty,
Thankyou for your views. Certainly many opinions on this site regarding this.
Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2011,17:51) my deep understanding of the scriptures is that Jesus preexisted ,now if you can show us all that we have the scriptures all wrong and because there is a word that you believe should mean some thing different than what we have so far seen,please show what you believe it is otherwise,but explain all other scriptures that state he preexisted,and do not brush those scriptures away just by saying those are a dream to come or in the spirit ect.
Well put Pierre.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 05 2011,08:52) Mike……….No scripture say Jesus was originally made any different then we are. that is an assumption on your part. When you refer to Paul saying Jesus (EXISTED) a past tense expression, what you are failing to realize He was talking about Jesus Past earthly existence not some assumed before earth existence as you believe Mike. Mike even if you don't want to listen to me please listen to Paladin and Marty and Kerwin they are presenting it right brother. peace and love…………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Yeah, yeah, yeah…………….I've heard it all before, so save it, okay?
My question to you was:
Gene, does Heb 2:9 say that Jesus was ORIGINALLY made a little lower than the angels………….or could this scripture fit in with both your view AND the pre-existent view?
Please answer my question DIRECTLY or don't post to me at all. I don't need to read the same rhetoric over and over – I just want you to answer my question as I answered yours.
(And you call ME a “dancer”?
)mike
Quote (942767 @ May 05 2011,07:42) Hi Mike: The scripture states that “his Name” is called the Word of God. It does not say that he is the Word of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
I'm sorry Marty,I could have sworn you said the “Word of God” in Rev 19 WAS Jesus. Did I read your answer wrong? Because now it seems like you are moving away from that conclusion.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2011,17:37) Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2011,17:51) my deep understanding of the scriptures is that Jesus preexisted ,now if you can show us all that we have the scriptures all wrong and because there is a word that you believe should mean some thing different than what we have so far seen,please show what you believe it is otherwise,but explain all other scriptures that state he preexisted,and do not brush those scriptures away just by saying those are a dream to come or in the spirit ect.
Well put Pierre.
Mikethanks,but I have not heard from paladin,yet,
it is amazing that so many just like to follow men and there explanation ,and not give credit to the written word of God,
and they say that in this way they could be saved .
where do they get there understanding? it is of men.
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2011,10:45) Quote (942767 @ May 05 2011,07:42) Hi Mike: The scripture states that “his Name” is called the Word of God. It does not say that he is the Word of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
I'm sorry Marty,I could have sworn you said the “Word of God” in Rev 19 WAS Jesus. Did I read your answer wrong? Because now it seems like you are moving away from that conclusion.
mike
Hi Mike:Revelation 19 is about Jesus but the scripture does not say that he is the Word of God. The scripture states that “His Name” is called the Word of God. Let me post it below for you. This is how the KJV has it:
Quote Revelation 19:13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: andHIS NAME IS CALLED The Word of God. The Word of God did not originate with him. He said he did what the Father showed him. Hebrews 1 state that God spoke to humanity through him in these last days. He obeyed the Word of God without sin even unto death on the cross.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (shimmer @ May 06 2011,04:45) Kerwin, Gene and Marty, Thankyou for your views. Certainly many opinions on this site regarding this.
What is your view on the issue?Quote (942767 @ May 06 2011,18:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 06 2011,10:45) Quote (942767 @ May 05 2011,07:42) Hi Mike: The scripture states that “his Name” is called the Word of God. It does not say that he is the Word of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
I'm sorry Marty,I could have sworn you said the “Word of God” in Rev 19 WAS Jesus. Did I read your answer wrong? Because now it seems like you are moving away from that conclusion.
mike
Hi Mike:Revelation 19 is about Jesus but the scripture does not say that he is the Word of God. The scripture states that “His Name” is called the Word of God. Let me post it below for you. This is how the KJV has it:
Quote Revelation 19:13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: andHIS NAME IS CALLED The Word of God. The Word of God did not originate with him. He said he did what the Father showed him. Hebrews 1 state that God spoke to humanity through him in these last days. He obeyed the Word of God without sin even unto death on the cross.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyare not mixing up the WORD OF GOD withGod s word
they are two different things
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ May 06 2011,12:48) Quote (shimmer @ May 06 2011,04:45) Kerwin, Gene and Marty, Thankyou for your views. Certainly many opinions on this site regarding this.
What is your view on the issue?
Kerwin,Going back a few years, I had my mind made up on what everything meant, so there was no issue for me.
I believed that the son of God came down from Heaven and then went back to Heaven.
After much study I had moved on to prophecy and what was happening in the world. I had a clear understanding with regards to the world today.
The past year or so though, has been quite confusing for me, reading all of the opinions here and on other forums has had me thinking more about Jesus Theology than Prophecy and the world.
I felt better knowing what I believed years ago.
So what did I believe earlier? As it says Jesus was in heaven as a spirit son of God then came down and was born as man through the virgin Mary.
Quote (shimmer @ May 06 2011,07:01) Quote (kerwin @ May 06 2011,12:48) Quote (shimmer @ May 06 2011,04:45) Kerwin, Gene and Marty, Thankyou for your views. Certainly many opinions on this site regarding this.
What is your view on the issue?
Kerwin,Going back a few years, I had my mind made up on what everything meant, so there was no issue for me.
I believed that the son of God came down from Heaven and then went back to Heaven.
After much study I had moved on to prophecy and what was happening in the world. I had a clear understanding with regards to the world today.
The past year or so though, has been quite confusing for me, reading all of the opinions here and on other forums has had me thinking more about Jesus Theology than Prophecy and the world.
I felt better knowing what I believed years ago.
So what did I believe earlier? As it says Jesus was in heaven as a spirit son of God then came down and was born as man through the virgin Mary.
Confusion is not necessary bad as to admit it means you are admitting you have more to learn from God. To clear up your confusion need to test what you hear and make sure it conforms to seeking God and his kingdom. Anything else comes from the Devil.Marty!
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Does this say in the beginning was the Word? And the Word was God?
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
And the Word was made flesh.
Before Jesus came down from Heaven, He was called the Word and God.
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
And His name is called the Word of God. Just like you are called Marty. When I write Marty. do I mean Mike? No…. The reason God called the Word of God Jesus when He became flesh, is because of what Jesus means, Emmanuel God with us.
And the Word of God in Rev. is the same being then in John 1…..I also believe the reason why He is called the Word of God, because when the Bible states God said, it is Jesus the Word of God. Mr. Armstrong puts it this way. He is the Spoken Word of God, or the Spokesman of God….Peace Irene
Quote (shimmer @ May 06 2011,12:01) Quote (kerwin @ May 06 2011,12:48) Quote (shimmer @ May 06 2011,04:45) Kerwin, Gene and Marty, Thankyou for your views. Certainly many opinions on this site regarding this.
What is your view on the issue?
Kerwin,Going back a few years, I had my mind made up on what everything meant, so there was no issue for me.
I believed that the son of God came down from Heaven and then went back to Heaven.
After much study I had moved on to prophecy and what was happening in the world. I had a clear understanding with regards to the world today.
The past year or so though, has been quite confusing for me, reading all of the opinions here and on other forums has had me thinking more about Jesus Theology than Prophecy and the world.
I felt better knowing what I believed years ago.
So what did I believe earlier? As it says Jesus was in heaven as a spirit son of God then came down and was born as man through the virgin Mary.
Shimmer! i applaud you, the Holy Spirit of God has shown you well. Praise to our LORD Almighty Jehovah God….Peace IreneQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2011,02:06) Hi All
To deny the preexistence of Jesus is to deny a very basic fundamental truth. There are way to many scriptures that one has to explain away or give some ethereal interpretation to the text when it is obvious a litteral interpretation of the text is what is meant by the writers.
Are you aware of the meaning of “ethereal” WJ? It means to define in “out of this world terms.” It is a reference to a realm beyond earth, of almost a fairy-story quality.”
Now, WJ, please tell me how a “pre-existant” Jesus is somehow not “ethereal.” You are trying to convince us he is from outside the world, “ethereal” by definition. I would say you are correct on that one, WJ. It certainly gives an
“ethereal” explanation to the scriptures.It is unfortunate you have chosen to attack the Greek of those with whom you disagree, because your application of Greek in your statement is almost totally wrong.
First you give a translation of a Greek text, instead of the Greek or some part thereof.
Quote John 6:38-40For “I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will“, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Then you mount an attack upon those with whom you disagree, by characterizing them as “men who know nothing of the construction of the Greek have set out to make themselves greater than the truth.”
You attempt to make your case without making your case, but simply asserting it;
Quote It is obvious what Jesus meant, but men who know nothing of the construction of the Greek have set out to make themselves greater than the truth by misinterpreting the clear meaning of the text in which the authors intended and which the translators translated. You fail to explain that in many cases it is the translators who are at fault, rather than the authors.
Then you formulate your attack by assertion, with no evidence from the Greek text, which from your argument, we would expect to see some examples therefrom.
And you throw in terminology without explaining what it means. “Unitarian” interpretation, for example, means exactly what?
Quote The Greek construction of the text concerning the preexistence of Jesus does not allow for a “Unitarian” interpretation. Quote The Greek for “I have come” is Strong's G2597 – katabaino… There are at least 33 Greek words that are translated “come” in one form or another, and nearly sixty compound meanings formed by other Greek words.[anabainw;aperxomai;apobainw;ginomai;deuro;deute;dierxomai;einai;eiserxomai;ektoreuo
mai;enisteemi;ezerxomai;eperxomai;epibainw;epiporeuomai;erxomai;esomai;esti;ephisteemi;eek
w;katantaw;katerxomai;paraginomai;pareimi;parerxomai;paristeemi;proserxomai;sunerxomai;phe
rw;phthavw;xwrew;wn; plus many compound forms translated “come” in one context or another. And none of them are translated “I have come.”My copy of Strong's concordance shows under #2597 – katabainw – to descend (lit. or fig.) – come (get, go, step) down, descend, fall (down).
[NOTE: in those instances in which “w” is printed in Greek words, it isa interlinear form of the Greek letter omega; many folks put in its place a letter omicron (o) with a dash over the top, but I haven't figured out my keybord well enough to try putting 'o' with a – on top.
Anyway, Strong's # and definition is not too big a deal, because there are so many editions, some with corrections, some with abbreviated information, I do not make it a test of fellowship over a Strong's definition. I just posted it becasue it is different from what you posted. I am not even saying you are wrong on this, only that my copy of Strong's says otherwise.
“Katabaino” actually means to come down (like descending a staircase) or fall down. If you type into bible program's word processor “I have come” you will not get “katabaino” as a preferred Greek source. You will get “erxomai.” So it is a little misleading to say “The Greek for “I have come” is Strong's
“katabaino.”Quote The Greek for “I have come” is Strong's G2597 – katabaino which is defined… 1) to go down, come down, descend
a) the place from which one has come down from
b) to come down“In every place the word is used it is referring to a literal action by a person and not an abstract “thought or plan”“.
Then please explain Mat 7:25 & 7:27 [rain]; 11:23 a city; Luke 8:23, a storm; & 9:54 fire; Acts 8:26, a highway; 10:11 & 11:5 – a certain vessel; or James 1:17 gifts from God; or Rev 3:12 a city, or 12:12, the devil. Tell us who this person is in each reference, that “came down.”
Quote
katabaino is in the “perfect” tense, and the “active voice” and the “indicative” mood!Again, a misleading statement. “katabebeeka” is the perfect, indicative, active form of katabaino. It is found in two verses in the new testament; John 6:38 and John 6:42 And only in two verses
Quote “The perfect tense” in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes “an action” which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated. The Greek “perfect” references a completed action, with results that carry into the present. The Greek “perfect” tense has no exact equivalent in English. [This is not all there is to say about the Greek “perfect” – it is all that applies to this report]
Quote Jesus' last cry from the cross, TETELESTAI (“It is finished!”) is a good example of the perfect tense used in this sense, namely “It [the atonement] has been accomplished, completely, once and for all time.” Certain antiquated verb forms in Greek, such as those related to seeing (eidw) or knowing (oida) will use the per
fect tense in a manner equivalent to the normal past tense. These few cases are exception to the normal rule and do not alter the normal connotation of the perfect tense stated above.Greek past tense or english past tense? There is no Greek past tense.
Quote “The active voice” represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, “The boy hit the ball,” the boy performs the action. “The indicative mood” is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.
”For I came down (katabaino) from heaven”, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 6:38
John 6:38 For I katabebeeka [came down] from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
[katabebeeka indicative perfect active form of (katabainw) -1s]Quote The same word is used here… And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God “descending (katabaino,)” like a dove, and lighting upon him: Matt 3:16
Not by a long shot –
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God katabainon [descending] like a dove, and lighting upon him: [katabainon = present active participle accusative neuter form of katabainw]
It is not the same form of the same word. And since it is the same root word, it is not improper to reference it as the “same word” but for one thing. You introduced the tense and mood and voice, so you should have stuck to words of the same tense and mood and voice when you say it is the same word. You cannot make a broad statement about a root word, and apply it to words that differ in form. It is misleading.
Quote And here… And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord “(descended (katabaino )” from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. Matt 28:2
This is now twice you claim “The same word is used here…” when it is not the same word. It is another form of the same word, because they share a root, but the form changes and when the form changes so does the meaning.
Mat 28:2 “And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord katabas [descended] from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.” Correct translation would actually be.. “for the angel of the Lord, descending and rolling back the stone…”
“Descending” and “rolling” are both participles, and in English that translates to a verb of (“-ing”) (as compared with (ed); i.e., rolling not rolled, descending, not descended.And it is aorist active,not perfect active, so it is not saying the same thing. The “perfect” tense is telling us that the result of the perfect tense is carried over to the present. The aorist simply tells us the action took place.
Quote Was the Holy Spirit and the Angel a “thought or plan” come down from heaven? Or did they really descend from heaven? Jesus said plainly that he came “From God” and “went to God”.
Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that “he was come from God, and went to God“; John 13:3
Again the Greek word come is in the “active voice” meaning Jesus did the action, and it is the indicative mood which means “the action really occurred”.
But the verb is not in the “perfect” tense, it is aorist.
Consider another verse in which the verb is in the perfect tense – “There was a man sent from God…” – “Sent” is from the Greek “apestalmenos,” which is the perfect passive form of the Greek participle (“-ing” word equivalent to (being sent) form of apostellw. (There's that “w” that is pronounced like long o).
This man was being sent from God, and the result influenced the present, from a completed action.
Quote When Jesus ascended to heaven., it was Jesus that did the ascending! The scriptures do not tell us the Father took him to heaven! Excuse me! The scriptures do not tell us the Father took Jesus to heaven? Is not Eph 1:20 part of the scriptures?
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,WHO DID IT?
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,WHAT DID HE DO?
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,WHAT DID HE DO WITH US?
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved;
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:[Eph 1:17-2:6]Quote
Jesus words were clear, for he never said or even in the slightest way implied that he was or came from a plan or thought of the Father!SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN TO ME
“As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.[G
en 17:4-5]SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN TO ME
“As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations, before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.” [Rom 4:17-21]SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN TO ME
“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.” [Deut 18:15,18-19]SOUNDS LIKE JOHN KNEW OF THE PLAN
“And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?” [John 1:21-25]SOUNDS LIKE THE EARLY PREACHERS KNEW OF THE PLAN OF GOD
“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.” [Acts 3:22-24]Quote Jesus puts the nail in the coffin for those who questioned what he was saying by the following words… What and if ye shall see the Son of man “ascend up where he was before”? John 6:62
Again the word “Ascend” is in the present tense and active voice which means that Jesus is doing the action.
Jesus is going to “WHERE HE WAS BEFORE”!
John 6:62 What and if ye [behold] the Son of man [ascending] where he was [at first]?
ye behold…[Greek thewreete = present active subjunctive]
at first….[Greek proteron = comparative adjective]This is the same word used by Paul “Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.” [Gal 4:13]
And again the author of Hebrews uses it this way – “Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:”
[Heb 4:6]And
“Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.” [Heb 7:27]
Now, notice, I did not say it is never translated “before,” I am simply showing you how, in my opinion, it is more consistant to use it in keeping with how it is used in these passages.
The reason it needs to be understood this way, is because Paul's explanation of Jesus ascending and descending uses it this way –
“Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.” [Eph 4:8-10] [NOTE: “proteron is not found in some manuscripts in this passage]
“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye [thewrew] see me have.” [Luke 24:39] Jesus himself testifies to his witnesses, as to how he wants them to perceive his resurrection, not “blepo” nor “eidw” – but “thewrew” – which is what he asked them way back in John 6:62
Quote Was he returning to a “plan or thought” or was he returning to the Father in heaven from where he came from and to the Glory that he had with the Father before the foundation of the world. Not according to his own testimony in Luke 24:39; he was returning to the Apostles where he spent some forty days and nights with them, explaining to them all that the prophets and Moses had written about him. “The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:” [Acts 1:1-3]
I will save the rest of this for another time, or forget it in the interest of staying with my OP.
Quote (Baker @ May 06 2011,13:14) Quote (shimmer @ May 06 2011,12:01) Quote (kerwin @ May 06 2011,12:48) Quote (shimmer @ May 06 2011,04:45) Kerwin, Gene and Marty, Thankyou for your views. Certainly many opinions on this site regarding this.
What is your view on the issue?
Kerwin,Going back a few years, I had my mind made up on what everything meant, so there was no issue for me.
I believed that the son of God came down from Heaven and then went back to Heaven.
After much study I had moved on to prophecy and what was happening in the world. I had a clear understanding with regards to the world today.
The past year or so though, has been quite confusing for me, reading all of the opinions here and on other forums has had me thinking more about Jesus Theology than Prophecy and the world.
I felt better knowing what I believed years ago.
So what did I believe earlier? As it says Jesus was in heaven as a spirit son of God then came down and was born as man through the virgin Mary.
Shimmer! i applaud you, the Holy Spirit of God has shown you well. Praise to our LORD Almighty Jehovah God….Peace Irene
Thankyou Irene!It makes me smile to think how simple it was.
And scripture does say!
Quote (942767 @ May 05 2011,18:32) He obeyed the Word of God without sin even unto death on the cross.
Hi Marty,The KJV renders it correctly. What do you think the difference is between saying “his name is called the Word of God” and “he is called the Word of God”?
And why do you think someone who merely obeyed the Word of God would be called the Word of God?
Could “the Word of God” be a name for the main spokesman of God?
mike
Paladin
Quote There are at least 33 Greek words that are translated “come” in one form or another, and nearly sixty compound meanings formed by other Greek words.[anabainw;aperxomai;apobainw;ginomai;deuro;deute;dierxomai;einai;eiserxomai;ektoreuo mai;enisteemi;ezerxomai;eperxomai;epibainw;epiporeuomai;erxomai;esomai;esti;ephisteemi;eek
w;katantaw;katerxomai;paraginomai;pareimi;parerxomai;paristeemi;proserxomai;sunerxomai;phe
rw;phthavw;xwrew;wn; plus many compound forms translated “come” in one context or another. And none of them are translated “I have come.”
My copy of Strong's concordance shows under #2597 – katabainw – to descend (lit. or fig.) – come (get, go, step) down, descend, fall (down).
[NOTE: in those instances in which “w” is printed in Greek words, it isa interlinear form of the Greek letter omega; many folks put in its place a letter omicron (o) with a dash over the top, but I haven't figured out my keybord well enough to try putting 'o' with a – on top.
Anyway, Strong's # and definition is not too big a deal, because there are so many editions, some with corrections, some with abbreviated information, I do not make it a test of fellowship over a Strong's definition. I just posted it becasue it is different from what you posted. I am not even saying you are wrong on this, only that my copy of Strong's says otherwise.
“Katabaino” actually means to come down (like descending a staircase) or fall down. If you type into bible program's word processor “I have come” you will not get “katabaino” as a preferred Greek source. You will get “erxomai.” So it is a little misleading to say “The Greek for “I have come” is Strong's
“katabaino.”this explanation above ,is for the least not clear,it seems you go one way to come back with the same thing but in your own words,and have not moved a inch.
you explanation is as clear as mud.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ May 06 2011,13:06) Paladin Quote There are at least 33 Greek words that are translated “come” in one form or another, and nearly sixty compound meanings formed by other Greek words.[anabainw;aperxomai;apobainw;ginomai;deuro;deute;dierxomai;einai;eiserxomai;ektoreuo mai;enisteemi;ezerxomai;eperxomai;epibainw;epiporeuomai;erxomai;esomai;esti;ephisteemi;eek
w;katantaw;katerxomai;paraginomai;pareimi;parerxomai;paristeemi;proserxomai;sunerxomai;phe
rw;phthavw;xwrew;wn; plus many compound forms translated “come” in one context or another. And none of them are translated “I have come.”
My copy of Strong's concordance shows under #2597 – katabainw – to descend (lit. or fig.) – come (get, go, step) down, descend, fall (down).
[NOTE: in those instances in which “w” is printed in Greek words, it isa interlinear form of the Greek letter omega; many folks put in its place a letter omicron (o) with a dash over the top, but I haven't figured out my keybord well enough to try putting 'o' with a – on top.
Anyway, Strong's # and definition is not too big a deal, because there are so many editions, some with corrections, some with abbreviated information, I do not make it a test of fellowship over a Strong's definition. I just posted it becasue it is different from what you posted. I am not even saying you are wrong on this, only that my copy of Strong's says otherwise.
“Katabaino” actually means to come down (like descending a staircase) or fall down. If you type into bible program's word processor “I have come” you will not get “katabaino” as a preferred Greek source. You will get “erxomai.” So it is a little misleading to say “The Greek for “I have come” is Strong's
“katabaino.”this explanation above ,is for the least not clear,it seems you go one way to come back with the same thing but in your own words,and have not moved a inch.
you explanation is as clear as mud.
Pierre
Thanks Pierre, you made me laugh, clear as mud is about right….
Its seems He knows better then the Translators do….
Peace Irene
Quote (Baker @ May 06 2011,20:43) Quote (terraricca @ May 06 2011,13:06) Paladin Quote There are at least 33 Greek words that are translated “come” in one form or another, and nearly sixty compound meanings formed by other Greek words.[anabainw;aperxomai;apobainw;ginomai;deuro;deute;dierxomai;einai;eiserxomai;ektoreuo mai;enisteemi;ezerxomai;eperxomai;epibainw;epiporeuomai;erxomai;esomai;esti;ephisteemi;eek
w;katantaw;katerxomai;paraginomai;pareimi;parerxomai;paristeemi;proserxomai;sunerxomai;phe
rw;phthavw;xwrew;wn; plus many compound forms translated “come” in one context or another. And none of them are translated “I have come.”
My copy of Strong's concordance shows under #2597 – katabainw – to descend (lit. or fig.) – come (get, go, step) down, descend, fall (down).
[NOTE: in those instances in which “w” is printed in Greek words, it isa interlinear form of the Greek letter omega; many folks put in its place a letter omicron (o) with a dash over the top, but I haven't figured out my keybord well enough to try putting 'o' with a – on top.
Anyway, Strong's # and definition is not too big a deal, because there are so many editions, some with corrections, some with abbreviated information, I do not make it a test of fellowship over a Strong's definition. I just posted it becasue it is different from what you posted. I am not even saying you are wrong on this, only that my copy of Strong's says otherwise.
“Katabaino” actually means to come down (like descending a staircase) or fall down. If you type into bible program's word processor “I have come” you will not get “katabaino” as a preferred Greek source. You will get “erxomai.” So it is a little misleading to say “The Greek for “I have come” is Strong's
“katabaino.”this explanation above ,is for the least not clear,it seems you go one way to come back with the same thing but in your own words,and have not moved a inch.
you explanation is as clear as mud.
Pierre
Thanks Pierre, you made me laugh, clear as mud is about right….
Its seems He knows better then the Translators do….
Peace Irene
Hi Irene Pierre
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