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Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,12:42) Quote (Paladin @ May 01 2011,16:51) I have looked again, and I do not see either seven or nine. sorry!
Do you deny the possibility of my analogy?mike
Me and scripture both deny it.Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
If you wnat to re-arrange how the words appear, I hav eno problem with it, but do not mess with the meaning.
Hebrews 1:4 re-arranged – “As he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they, Being made so much better than the angels.
either way, the scripture tells us Jesus “obtained” (as in
“didn't already have”) a better name than angels; and further, He was “made so much better than angels.” Please don't tell me you have assigned a value between 7 and 9 and expect me to agree that it is the “real meaning” of the verse.Bump for Marty.
Quote (942767 @ April 30 2011,13:47)
Since you want to teach the pre-existence of Jesus, it is up to you to substatiate it with scripture.
MartyWe have already given you clear scripture and the literral Greek meanings.
”For I came down (katabainō) from heaven”, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 6:38
The same word is used here…
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God “descending (katabainō,)” like a dove, and lighting upon him: Matt 3:16
And here…
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord “(descended (katabainō )” from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. Matt 28:2
Marty, was the Holy Spirit and the Angel a “thought or plan” who came down from heaven? Or did they really “descend” (katabainō) from heaven?
Keep in mind every time the word “descend” (katabainō) is found in scriptures it refers to a literal event involving a living being and not some abstract concept like the “thought and plan of God came down from heaven”.
Marty you didn't answer the question. If the Holy Spirit and the Angel “descended” (katabainō) from heaven literally then why do you deny Jesus literally came down from heaven?
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2011,21:13) Quote (kerwin @ May 01 2011,00:38) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 30 2011,20:44) Hi Kerwin,
I think you are stating that God's Spirit “married” flesh, (not BECAME flesh), and was “married to” the likeness of a human being, (not WAS MADE INTO the likeness of a human being), and that it was this Spirit of God who had the glory of an only begotten Son and dwelled among us, right?
If that is the case, then I have only one question for you.
John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Who is Jesus talking about in this scripture if he already IS the Holy Spirit?mike
Mike,Consider the prayer of Jesus where he petitions God that those that believe in him be one as the God and he already are.
Jesus and God are one because the Spirit of Christ dwells in Jesus and God lives in Jesus through the same Spirit.
Those that believe are made one with God because Jesus lives in them through the Spirit and through Jesus God also lives in them.
The spirit of God can be in many places at once.
The best example of a similar happening occurs in the book of Deuteronomy when God places a portion of the spirit of Mosses into the elders of that time. Moses would have looked to Jesus as even John the Baptist did.
He is not the Spirit of Christ though it dwells within in and he subjects himself completely to God's will through it.
Hi Kerwin,I don't see an answer to my question. If the Spirit is already on the earth and speaking through Jesus, then why would the Spirit prompt the man Jesus to say the Spirit would be sent at a later time?
mike
Mike,It seems I must be assuming you are aware of some message of scripture that you are not. I am not quite sure what that is.
The Spirit of Christ dwelling within a believer is what transforms that believer into the image of Christ. Jesus is Moses to our being the Elders into which a part of Moses’ spirit was placed. Moses was carried along by the Spirit of God and so prophesized and in order for the Elders to do the same they too required the Spirit of God. The Spirit, as advocate, grants a different gift than prophecy. It grants the gift of righteousness and holiness like unto God’s. We know Jesus’ righteousness is the exact image of God’s righteousness because he never fell short of the glory of God. We are instructed to put on the new man which is the image of Jesus.
Quote 2 Corinthians 3(New International Version, ©2011) 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
So the answer is that Jesus was promising his followers that they would receive his spirit through the Spirit of God just as the Elders received the spirit of Moses through the Spirit of Christ previously. The difference being that the gift delivered by the Holy Spirit was different in that Jesus disciples receive the gift of righteousness just as we are taught.
Quote Romans 1:17 (New International Version, ©2011) 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[a] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,08:29) Hi Marty, What exactly do you think the “Word of God” is? God's Spirit? His very spoken words that have taken up an existence of their own? Is the Word of God a separate entity from God?
I'm curious how you understand it.
mike
Hi Mike:The Word of God is that which God has spoken.
As to your question: Is the Word of God a separate entity from God? No, it is not.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (kerwin @ May 02 2011,15:38) So the answer is that Jesus was promising his followers that they would receive his spirit through the Spirit of God just as the Elders received the spirit of Moses through the Spirit of Christ previously.
Hi Kerwin,I see two problems that maybe you can explain:
1. Jesus referred to this coming helper as something different than him. His point was that after HE left, the Father would send a DIFFERENT helper. So if it was “his spirit” speaking about this OTHER helper, then the other helper couldn't also be “his spirit”, right?
2. I have not heard of the “spirit of Moses”. I have understood that when Moses became burdened down with too much, God took OF the amount of His Spirit that was on Moses and gave the part he took off of Moses to 70 other elders. As I understand it, it was God's Holy Spirit, not “the spirit of Moses”.
peace to you,
mikeQuote (942767 @ May 02 2011,17:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,08:29) Hi Marty, What exactly do you think the “Word of God” is? God's Spirit? His very spoken words that have taken up an existence of their own? Is the Word of God a separate entity from God?
I'm curious how you understand it.
mike
Hi Mike:The Word of God is that which God has spoken.
As to your question: Is the Word of God a separate entity from God? No, it is not.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,Okay, I read your answer and it gives birth to a whole bunch of questions in my mind…………but let's start with just one:
Do you believe that Jesus is NOT the one named “the Word of God” in Rev 19?
mike
Quote (Paladin @ May 02 2011,06:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,12:42) Quote (Paladin @ May 01 2011,16:51) I have looked again, and I do not see either seven or nine. sorry!
Do you deny the possibility of my analogy?mike
Me and scripture both deny it.Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
If you wnat to re-arrange how the words appear, I hav eno problem with it, but do not mess with the meaning.
Hi Paladin,What do you make of the word “tosoutos”? If the writer was saying Jesus became better than the angels, why would he need the word “tosoutos”, which means “so much”?
To me, saying Jesus became SO MUCH better means Jesus already was better, and now has become even MORE better. (I know, “more better” is bad English, but do you get my point at least?)
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 03 2011,07:24) Quote (kerwin @ May 02 2011,15:38) So the answer is that Jesus was promising his followers that they would receive his spirit through the Spirit of God just as the Elders received the spirit of Moses through the Spirit of Christ previously.
Hi Kerwin,I see two problems that maybe you can explain:
1. Jesus referred to this coming helper as something different than him. His point was that after HE left, the Father would send a DIFFERENT helper. So if it was “his spirit” speaking about this OTHER helper, then the other helper couldn't also be “his spirit”, right?
2. I have not heard of the “spirit of Moses”. I have understood that when Moses became burdened down with too much, God took OF the amount of His Spirit that was on Moses and gave the part he took off of Moses to 70 other elders. As I understand it, it was God's Holy Spirit, not “the spirit of Moses”.
peace to you,
mike
Mike,I reread Numbers 11 and I can see that your argument is stronger than mine about how the event should be understood. It is not a major point since it is not needed to explain how the Spirit of God transforms those who believe into the image of Jesus Christ. I was using it to explain how Jesus is in those that believe, a point I now must seek to correctly understand.
The other helper is the Spirit of God which I see as the conduit of God’s will. I saw Jesus’ spirit as that part of himself that submitted himself to God. In this way Jesus’ spirit testifies with God’s spirit that he is the Son of God even as this scripture states occurs with believers who are merely adopted children.
Quote Romans 8:16 (New International Version, ©2011) 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
Kerwin
Quote It seems I must be assuming you are aware of some message of scripture that you are not. I am not quite sure what that is. The Spirit of Christ dwelling within a believer is what transforms that believer into the image of Christ. Jesus is Moses to our being the Elders into which a part of Moses’ spirit was placed. Moses was carried along by the Spirit of God and so prophesized and in order for the Elders to do the same they too required the Spirit of God. The Spirit, as advocate, grants a different gift than prophecy. It grants the gift of righteousness and holiness like unto God’s. We know Jesus’ righteousness is the exact image of God’s righteousness because he never fell short of the glory of God. We are instructed to put on the new man which is the image of Jesus.
the spirit of Christ is not something that is donated or a substance that is acquired because of …..
but rather something to acquire trough knowledge and understanding of God s word,and put to practice all the teachings that the apostles have preached and written by being under the true and holy spirit of God.
Gal 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.
Gal 4:9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
Gal 4:10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.Gal 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Gal 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.so it is by our transformation to the actions in our live according to the spirit of truth that we free our self of this world and so become the servant of God and receive redemption for our sins trough the sacrifice of Christ our Lord.
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 03 2011,01:30) Bump for Marty. Quote (942767 @ April 30 2011,13:47)
Since you want to teach the pre-existence of Jesus, it is up to you to substatiate it with scripture.
MartyWe have already given you clear scripture and the literral Greek meanings.
”For I came down (katabainō) from heaven”, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 6:38
The same word is used here…
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God “descending (katabainō,)” like a dove, and lighting upon him: Matt 3:16
And here…
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord “(descended (katabainō )” from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. Matt 28:2
Marty, was the Holy Spirit and the Angel a “thought or plan” who came down from heaven? Or did they really “descend” (katabainō) from heaven?
Keep in mind every time the word “descend” (katabainō) is found in scriptures it refers to a literal event involving a living being and not some abstract concept like the “thought and plan of God came down from heaven”.
Marty you didn't answer the question. If the Holy Spirit and the Angel “descended” (katabainō) from heaven literally then why do you deny Jesus literally came down from heaven?
WJ
Hi Keith:Please show me how he came down from heaven.
Thanks,
MartyWJ………..Nothing in creation did not come into existence without the Pre-knowledge and pre-planning of GOD, rather Angeles or Man, or any life forms that exist. show us one scripture in all the bible that say differently. Jesus was just as Peter said < He was foreordained (BUT) was Manifested(brought into existence in our time. The same as Cyrus was also 200 years before his berth, He was not manifested in any other time but in our time . What part of that don't you and Mike and the rest of you preexistences not understand.
Why is it so hard for you people to understand GOD the Father Preplanned what he does thousands if not millions of years before they take place . Jesus is a SON OF MAN in the same way we all ARE a SON OF MAN. Why is it so hard for you to understand How God Planned all along to Perfect Man Kind and started with the Man Jesus in his perfecting work in Mankind. Jesus is the First BORN from mankind to enter into the Kingdom of GOD. Why do you people continue to work at separating Jesus from our exact identity Why worship the created rather then the CREATOR. Jesus is our brother Who our Father in Heaven has placed over us and exhausted to guide us into the kingdom of our heavenly Father. He is the (MAN) Mediator between MAN and GOD, OUR High Priest From our same source, Just as Moses was a mediator between GOD and MAN , Jesus is also a Mediator, Just as GOD Spoke through the Prophets in times Past He now Spoke it us through a Man, His ANOINTED SON JESUS OUR BROTHER. THE FIRST BEGOTTEN FROM MAN KIND AND THE FIRST RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD, from all of mankind. IMO
peace and love to you and yours WJ…………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,02:46) The scripture doesn't really say that Jesus “became superior” to the [other] angels, as if he wasn't already. It says he became AS MUCH SUPERIOR to them as the new name he inherited is superior to theirs.
Mike……..Here is something to think about, follow this all the way through Nike.
Heb 2:6……> But one in a certain place testified, saying What is man, that thou are mindful of him? or the son of man, that though visitest him? Verse 7….> Thou Made him a little lower than the angels; thou [/B crounedst] (a Past tense expression), him with GLORY and HONOR, and did set him over the works of your hands. Verse 8…> Thou has ( another past tense word) put (ALL) things in subjection under His mans feet. For in that he (GOD) put all in subjection under him (MAN) He (GOD) left nothing that is not put under him (MAN)> But now we see not yet all things put under him (MAN). Verse 9…> Now Notice this MIKE…> But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels Notice Mike it is the same words as used for all of mankind in the above scripture in verse 7, Do you see any difference between those two scriptures I don't.Again the question come forth …..> why do you preexistences and your brother the trinitarians try so hear to separate Jesus for our (EXACT) Identity Is it not your false teaching that does this?. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Pierre,
Quote Psalms 104(Young’s Literal Translation) 27All of them unto Thee do look, To give their food in its season.
28Thou dost give to them — they gather, Thou dost open Thy hand — they [are] satisfied [with] good.
29Thou hidest Thy face — they are troubled, Thou gatherest their spirit — they expire, And unto their dust they turn back.
30Thou sendest out Thy Spirit, they are created, And Thou renewest the face of the ground.God’s Spirit is his creative force as stated in verse 30.
Quote Ephesians 4:24 (Young's Literal Translation) 24and to put on the new man, which, according to God, was created in righteousness and kindness of the truth.
The Spirit creates the new man which is spoken of in this verse. The new man lives by the instructions of the Holy Advocate and thus the fruit of the new man is mentioned in Galatians 5:22-23. By walking according to the Spirit’s teachings the new man has been set free from slavery to sin by crucifying the sinful nature, Galatians 5:1,24.
Those who have received the Spirit of God but do not live by it are still wearing the old man who lives by the sinful nature.
Quote Ephesians 4:22 (Young's Literal Translation) 22ye are to put off concerning the former behaviour the old man, that is corrupt according to the desires of the deceit,
Before Jesus sent the Spirit of God to them they lived by the sinful nature because they did not have the Advocate to instruct them. In Galatians 4 :8-11 Paul is instructing the students of Jesus the Anointed not to reject the gift of the Spirit of God.
The Spirit of God is God’s Spirit that is given as the Advocate to those who obey Jesus’ teachings on how to obtain it. You cannot acquire it through the written letter of Scripture but only through being inspired by God and thus obeying his intent.
Kerwin
Quote Before Jesus sent the Spirit of God to them they lived by the sinful nature because they did not have the Advocate to instruct them. In Galatians 4 :8-11 Paul is instructing the students of Jesus the Anointed not to reject the gift of the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God is God’s Spirit that is given as the Advocate to those who obey Jesus’ teachings on how to obtain it. You cannot acquire it through the written letter of Scripture but only through being inspired by God and thus obeying his intent.
you misunderstand what scriptures telling you,God is spirit and you have to worship him in spirit ;this mean in your thoughts and mind and heart,and so in action;
to do this God has send his son to us ans he as made sure that there would be a record of all we need to know to believe in him and the one who as send him.God.
Jn 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:
Jn 16:9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;
Jn 16:10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
Jn 16:11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.do you see why Christ will send the counselor ?do you understand why?
Jn 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
he the spirit of truth ;he is a he this mean that it is a angel of God because he as the truth with him.
the spirit of God is his will ,his thoughts can not be understand by men ,God spirit has to be said that it is holy because there are two wills at work in the world one of Satan and one of God what is truth and holy.pure.
unless we submit to God our faith is in vain.
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 03 2011,12:30) Quote (942767 @ May 02 2011,17:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,08:29) Hi Marty, What exactly do you think the “Word of God” is? God's Spirit? His very spoken words that have taken up an existence of their own? Is the Word of God a separate entity from God?
I'm curious how you understand it.
mike
Hi Mike:The Word of God is that which God has spoken.
As to your question: Is the Word of God a separate entity from God? No, it is not.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,Okay, I read your answer and it gives birth to a whole bunch of questions in my mind…………but let's start with just one:
Do you believe that Jesus is NOT the one named “the Word of God” in Rev 19?
mike
Hi Mike:Yes, I believe this is Jesus. This is the way the KJV has it:
Quote Revelation 19:13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Hebrews 1 states that in these last days God has spoken to humanity through his Son. Since he obeyed the Word of God without sin even unto death on the cross, and by virtue of his obedience, he is now the author of eternal life, and the judge of the living and the dead, and in his position as head of the church he watches over God's Word to perform it. And he can say: “I am the way the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me”.
He is not the origin of the Word of God. As I stated, the Word of God is that which God has spoken.
The scripture states his name is called the Word of God[\b]. I believe that there is a difference between this and and the way that you stated it.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Gene Balthrop @ May 03 2011,09:24)
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels Notice Mike it is the same words as used for all of mankind in the above scripture in verse 7, Do you see any difference between those two scriptures I don't.
Hi Gene,Can “was made a little lower than the angels” be reconciled with Phil 2, which says that Jesus was existing in the form of God, but then “was made in the likeness of a human being”?
If he was made as a human being, then for a while he was made lower than the angels – for human beings are lower than the angels, right? But the scripture doesn't say he was ORIGINALLY made a little lower than the angels, does it? So when you reconcile that scripture with Phil 2 and John 1:14, everything fits in nicely.
Gene, before posting your “proof scripture”, ask yourself this one question: Does this scripture prohibit Jesus from existing in heaven before this particular event took place?
Here, let's try it on your latest scripture: “Well, it says Jesus was made a little lower than the angels……….but does this scripture prohibit Jesus from existing in heaven before he was made a little lower than the angels?“
The answer is NO. Being made as a man, which is a little lower than the angels, fits right in with our pre-existent understanding.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 03 2011,09:24)
Again the question come forth …..> why do you preexistences and your brother the trinitarians try so hear to separate Jesus for our (EXACT) Identity Is it not your false teaching that does this?. IMO
Gene, even your friend Paladin has made it clear that Jesus was never exactly identical to the sons of Adam. You have never believed me, but I thought for sure you would have believed Paladin when he told you this. So which of us is really the one propagating a “false teaching” Gene?mike
Quote (942767 @ May 03 2011,18:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 03 2011,12:30) Quote (942767 @ May 02 2011,17:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,08:29) Hi Marty, What exactly do you think the “Word of God” is? God's Spirit? His very spoken words that have taken up an existence of their own? Is the Word of God a separate entity from God?
I'm curious how you understand it.
mike
Hi Mike:The Word of God is that which God has spoken.
As to your question: Is the Word of God a separate entity from God? No, it is not.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,Okay, I read your answer and it gives birth to a whole bunch of questions in my mind…………but let's start with just one:
Do you believe that Jesus is NOT the one named “the Word of God” in Rev 19?
mike
Hi Mike:Yes, I believe this is Jesus.
Hi Marty,So the being of Jesus, according to you is:
1. A being which God has spoken.
2. Not a separate entity from God.Am I understanding you so far, because these are your own words I'm using for MY understanding of YOUR understanding.
mike
Pierre,
I agree when you state:
Quote God is spirit and you have to worship him in spirit. This means in your thoughts, mind and heart, and so in action. But I also agree that those that have not entered the new covenant are slaves to sin which is why Jesus teaches us.
Quote John 8:34 (New International Version, ©2011) 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
A slave to sin cannot worship God in spirit because his spirit is impure.
That is why Jesus also teaches:
Quote John 8:36 (New International Version, ©2011) 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
Jesus does that by sending the Spirit of Christ in its role of Advocate to “guide you into all truth” which is to say to transform you from the old man you are outside the new covenant to the new man you will become when you are inside and reach full maturity in Christ.
Now Ephesians 4:24 instructs believers to put on their mature self and that is done by walking according to the desires (teachings) of the Holy Advocate. The one who fully submits their will to God’s is the one who lives by the desires (love) of the Spirit of God.
Quote (942767 @ May 03 2011,11:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,08:29) Hi Marty, What exactly do you think the “Word of God” is? God's Spirit? His very spoken words that have taken up an existence of their own? Is the Word of God a separate entity from God?
I'm curious how you understand it.
mike
Hi Mike:The Word of God is that which God has spoken.
As to your question: Is the Word of God a separate entity from God? No, it is not.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty.You mean just how our words are what we speak, and they are a part of us.
Like this:
Isaiah 55:11 “So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing I sent it to do.”
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 04 2011,03:24) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,02:46) The scripture doesn't really say that Jesus “became superior” to the [other] angels, as if he wasn't already. It says he became AS MUCH SUPERIOR to them as the new name he inherited is superior to theirs.
Mike……..Here is something to think about, follow this all the way through Nike.
Heb 2:6……> But one in a certain place testified, saying What is man, that thou are mindful of him? or the son of man, that though visitest him? Verse 7….> Thou Made him a little lower than the angels; thou [/B crounedst] (a Past tense expression), him with GLORY and HONOR, and did set him over the works of your hands. Verse 8…> Thou has ( another past tense word) put (ALL) things in subjection under His mans feet. For in that he (GOD) put all in subjection under him (MAN) He (GOD) left nothing that is not put under him (MAN)> But now we see not yet all things put under him (MAN). Verse 9…> Now Notice this MIKE…> But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels Notice Mike it is the same words as used for all of mankind in the above scripture in verse 7, Do you see any difference between those two scriptures I don't.Again the question come forth …..> why do you preexistences and your brother the trinitarians try so hear to separate Jesus for our (EXACT) Identity Is it not your false teaching that does this?. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Hi Gene.I have one question. What do you think of the verse which says Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit?
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