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Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 27 2011,01:47) Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 27 2011,00:27) Hi Paladin,
One of two.Quote John 7:16-17 (King James Version) 16Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
I think this one counts – “Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.” [Mat 16:12]
if this counts then where was He send from?
?
Irene(Irene)
Quote God's Kingdom is in Heaven, that is why it says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Almighty God is Spirit, and only Spirit can go there. We won”t. While it is true, “Flesh and blood will not inherit thekingdom” it is also true that flesh and bone will. Jesus was flesh and bone when he ascended to sit at God's right hand. His blood was poured out onto the earth at the cross.
When we are resurrected, the blood would have long since dissipated, but flesh and bone can be reconstucted from the dust.
Grace and hope to you dear sister, and greetings to George.
Quote (Baker @ Mar. 27 2011,02:18) Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 27 2011,01:47) Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 27 2011,00:27) Hi Paladin,
One of two.Quote John 7:16-17 (King James Version) 16Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
I think this one counts – “Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.” [Mat 16:12]
if this counts then where was He send from??
Irene
I'm not sure what you are asking, but my answer has to do with the original statement “Jesus never used the term
“doctrine.”This is simply an example where his parables were understood to be reference his doctrine.
Hi Paladin,
I went ahead and looked up the word doctrine. While not a new word in my vocabulary, it is not one I have used much in day to day discourses.
Quote Doctrine, from Latin doctrina, (compare doctor), means “a body of teachings” or “instructions”, taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system.
So, OK. The corpus(body) of God's doctrine as set forth by and through Jesus Christ includes the parables spoken by Jesus Christ himself. Yes? The corpus is like a database. Jesus Christ is the administrator. God is the maker/creator. The Holy Spirit is the interface we use to gain useful knowledge and insight from the database and the Holy Spirit is what we use to share knowledge gleaned from the database…ideally. Just some metaphoric thoughts.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Paladin @ Mar. 27 2011,02:55) (Irene) Quote God's Kingdom is in Heaven, that is why it says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Almighty God is Spirit, and only Spirit can go there. We won”t. While it is true, “Flesh and blood will not inherit thekingdom” it is also true that flesh and bone will. Jesus was flesh and bone when he ascended to sit at God's right hand. His blood was poured out onto the earth at the cross.
When we are resurrected, the blood would have long since dissipated, but flesh and bone can be reconstucted from the dust.
Grace and hope to you dear sister, and greetings to George.
Paladin ………I agree with this Post also. No where does it say flesh and bone can't enter the kingdom of GOD.The false concept of People becoming some Invisible Spirit is nothing but Mystery Pagan thought. God made this beautifull earth Physical and full of physical life form of all kind they are simply magnificent and Beautiful , I really do not believe he is about to destory them or His human Creation either, not now or ever. IMO He will deliver it from the bond of corruption as scripture says He will. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 27 2011,02:55) (Irene) Quote God's Kingdom is in Heaven, that is why it says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Almighty God is Spirit, and only Spirit can go there. We won”t. While it is true, “Flesh and blood will not inherit thekingdom” it is also true that flesh and bone will. Jesus was flesh and bone when he ascended to sit at God's right hand. His blood was poured out onto the earth at the cross.
When we are resurrected, the blood would have long since dissipated, but flesh and bone can be reconstucted from the dust.
Grace and hope to you dear sister, and greetings to George.
Paladin! Jesus was flesh and bone when when after His resurrection went to sit next to God on His throne? Then this scripture is false1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
I don't believe for a minute that Jesus is not in Heaven as a Spiritual body…..Also He was our ransom. A ransom has to be taken away otherwise it wold not be a ransom.
Mark 10:45 and 1 Tim. 2:6
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 27 2011,08:52) Hi Paladin, I went ahead and looked up the word doctrine. While not a new word in my vocabulary, it is not one I have used much in day to day discourses.
Quote Doctrine, from Latin doctrina, (compare doctor), means “a body of teachings” or “instructions”, taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system.
So, OK. The corpus(body) of God's doctrine as set forth by and through Jesus Christ includes the parables spoken by Jesus Christ himself. Yes? The corpus is like a database. Jesus Christ is the administrator. God is the maker/creator. The Holy Spirit is the interface we use to gain useful knowledge and insight from the database and the Holy Spirit is what we use to share knowledge gleaned from the database…ideally. Just some metaphoric thoughts.With Love and Respect,
Wispring
Very Good my friend. Now consider some more reality that kinda says the same thing.Remember that Jesus promised to send “another comforter.”
consider now, what Paul said – “For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” [Rom 15:4]
Remember that God had provided the scriptures for his people, known far and wide as “the old testament” to our generation. Now consider a period of approximately four hundred years we know as “between the testaments” but I think really is between the close of the old testament and the beginning of the life of Jesus. Then add the approximatel;y thirty years of the life of Jesus prior to his mission; So, if my estimate is close, you have a second period of 430 years significant in the lives of the people of God. The opening of the details of the gospel of Jesus Christ, as events preceeded the writing of the account of the events, known far and wide to us as “the gospels of Jesus Christ.”
When God, through his holy Spirit inspired another testament, that was the promised “another comforter,” and the proof of it is found in Eph 6 – For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the reema [word] of God:”[Eph 6:12-17]
“Which” in verse 17, is an adjective modifying “spirit” not sword. Sword is feminine singular; Spirit and is neuter and singular. A Greek adjective has to agree with its antecedent in gender and number.
We, through comfort of the scriptures can “..all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:” [Eph 4:13]
If we remember that the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life, we can see that it is the spirit of scripture,not the letter thereof, that brings us to an understanding of true life in Jesus.
Baker,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
(Irene)Quote God's Kingdom is in Heaven, that is why it says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Almighty God is Spirit, and only Spirit can go there. We won”t. (P)
Quote While it is true, “Flesh and blood will not inherit thekingdom” it is also true that flesh and bone will. Jesus was flesh and bone when he ascended to sit at God's right hand. His blood was poured out onto the earth at the cross. When we are resurrected, the blood would have long since dissipated, but flesh and bone can be reconstucted from the dust.
(I)
Quote Paladin! Jesus was flesh and bone when when after His resurrection went to sit next to God on His throne? Then this scripture is false1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
I think perhaps, dear sister, you may be thinking of “you are raised a spirit” instead of “you are raised a spiritual body.”
Remember, while living in the body, “the life is in the blood,” but after the life ceases, the blood disintegrates and is no longer reconstituted in the resurrected body, so the life is in the spirit, not the blood. It is raised uniquely a “spiritual body.”
Please consider it.
(I)
Quote 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. I don't believe for a minute that Jesus is not in Heaven as a Spiritual body…..
A “Spiritual…” WHAT? That's right, dear sister; a spiritual
“BODY. We are in agreement.grace and hope to you and yours from me and mine.
These are all very good Scriptures, but tell me Paladin what does that have to do with the incarnation of Jesus, and His resurrection…..?
???It should be under the i am Lucifer tread.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 27 2011,09:51) Baker,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
(Irene)Quote God's Kingdom is in Heaven, that is why it says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Almighty God is Spirit, and only Spirit can go there. We won”t. (P)
Quote While it is true, “Flesh and blood will not inherit thekingdom” it is also true that flesh and bone will. Jesus was flesh and bone when he ascended to sit at God's right hand. His blood was poured out onto the earth at the cross. When we are resurrected, the blood would have long since dissipated, but flesh and bone can be reconstucted from the dust.
(I)
Quote Paladin! Jesus was flesh and bone when when after His resurrection went to sit next to God on His throne? Then this scripture is false1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
I think perhaps, dear sister, you may be thinking of “you are raised a spirit” instead of “you are raised a spiritual body.”
Remember, while living in the body, “the life is in the blood,” but after the life ceases, the blood disintegrates and is no longer reconstituted in the resurrected body, so the life is in the spirit, not the blood. It is raised uniquely a “spiritual body.”
Please consider it.
(I)
Quote 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. I don't believe for a minute that Jesus is not in Heaven as a Spiritual body…..
A “Spiritual…” WHAT? That's right, dear sister; a spiritual
“BODY. We are in agreement.grace and hope to you and yours from me and mine.
Great we agree….Peace and Love IreneHi Paladin,
So, the Logos of God is God's doctrine(among other things) and the reema is the declared expression of God's doctrine which of the Spirit of Truth(the Comforter) which is manifested physically in the bible and I would imagine other writings.This post that I am writing is a Logos of myself and the reema are the words I am using to express myself.If I were talking to you face to face the words departing my mouth would also be considered to be reema. Is this a suitable understanding of the use of the words Logos and reema?
With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Wispring @ Mar. 27 2011,19:19) Hi Paladin, So, the Logos of God is God's doctrine(among other things) and the reema is the declared expression of God's doctrine which of the Spirit of Truth(the Comforter) which is manifested physically in the bible and I would imagine other writings.This post that I am writing is a Logos of myself and the reema are the words I am using to express myself.If I were talking to you face to face the words departing my mouth would also be considered to be reema. Is this a suitable understanding of the use of the words Logos and reema?
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
Hello my friend;Sometimes “logos” and “reema” seem to be almost interchangeable; but there remains a subtle difference –
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these [reema] words: for after the tenor of these [logos] words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.” [Exo 34:7]A Covenat can be considered from two perspectives, the concept and the record. Sometimes when God tells men to write, he tells them to write the record, sometimes he tells them to write the concept.
“And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the [reema] words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these [logos] words which the LORD commanded him.
8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the [logos] words of the people unto the LORD. 9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the [reema] words of the people unto the LORD. [Exo 9:6-9]
But the real difference is delineated in the new testament –
We are told of a sword that can be used for both thrust and parry; attack and defense, which is the written word of God, and no false doctrine can stand against it: – “And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the rhema [word] of God: [Eph 6:17]
Then again, we are told of something more powerful than any two-edged sword, and that is the concept behind what is written: – “For the logos [word] of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” [Heb 4:12]
The written account can be used to defeat error, but the conceptual account can be used to build strongholds of faith. If you understand the concepts, you can grow unto the fulness of the stature of Christ. And it helps to remember, the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. In other words, if you memorize scripture, you can defeat error; but if you submit your life to the spirit that inspired the letter, you will live forever.
If you remember, the difference is subtle and not every man will see this. There will remain those who will insist they are interchangeable. They are not. One must discern what it is God is saying; is he speaking of the record, or the spirit of the message?
Quote (Baker @ Mar. 26 2011,22:37) Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 26 2011,22:01) Hi Paladin,
This what I am thinking conceptually. Jesus was the personification of the Logos of God. Every word recorded in the scripture to be of Jesus was of the Logos which is of God. Kind of like a 3 station direct communication link.
Love and Respect,
Wispring
Much more then that….Scriptures already given…..Jesus is not just a mere man. Just being born as a Human being, He was in pregnant-gated by the Holy Spirit, and not a man….God's literal Son……He emptied Himself and became a man, a Servant at that. A ransom for all.Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Peace and Love Irene
May I ask dear sister –Do you believe in three begettals for Jesus?
Hi Paladin,
Right. I read what you wrote and am completely in agreement with you regarding the Logos that it is the spirit that gives life and not the reema. God has written his love for me in my heart. I can only respond likewize. I am attempting here to reach a semantic understanding of the Greek words Logos and reema. To my knowledge seeking mind reema is objective written and oral record. Logos is vital living idea or concept. Kind of like the actual thoughts each person has about any given matter; spirtual or non-spiritual. The idea may be about something non-spiritual, but, the idea itself is spiritual because it created by a person that has spirit. A dead person does not have any Logos to commicate, but, the ones who remember the dead person have memories of the dead person which are Logos and when they use reema to commicate about that dead person the Logos of that dead person lives in their memories. Here I am not speaking of God's Logos which is most high. I am illustrating my understanding of the meanings of these words. This is my understanding at this point. To the best of your knowledge am I grasping the semantic meaning of Logos and reema adequately?With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Wispring @ Mar. 27 2011,23:34) Hi Paladin,
Right. I read what you wrote and am completely in agreement with you regarding the Logos that it is the spirit that gives life and not the reema. God has written his love for me in my heart. I can only respond likewize. I am attempting here to reach a semantic understanding of the Greek words Logos and reema. To my knowledge seeking mind reema is objective written and oral record. Logos is vital living idea or concept. Kind of like the actual thoughts each person has about any given matter; spirtual or non-spiritual. The idea may be about something non-spiritual, but, the idea itself is spiritual because it created by a person that has spirit. A dead person does not have any Logos to commicate, but, the ones who remember the dead person have memories of the dead person which are Logos and when they use reema to commicate about that dead person the Logos of that dead person lives in their memories. Here I am not speaking of God's Logos which is most high. I am illustrating my understanding of the meanings of these words. This is my understanding at this point. To the best of your knowledge am I grasping the semantic meaning of Logos and reema adequately?With Love and Respect,
Wispring
Precisely with precision.Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 27 2011,20:40) Quote (Baker @ Mar. 26 2011,22:37) Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 26 2011,22:01) Hi Paladin,
This what I am thinking conceptually. Jesus was the personification of the Logos of God. Every word recorded in the scripture to be of Jesus was of the Logos which is of God. Kind of like a 3 station direct communication link.
Love and Respect,
Wispring
Much more then that….Scriptures already given…..Jesus is not just a mere man. Just being born as a Human being, He was in pregnant-gated by the Holy Spirit, and not a man….God's literal Son……He emptied Himself and became a man, a Servant at that. A ransom for all.Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Peace and Love Irene
May I ask dear sister –Do you believe in three begettals for Jesus?
Paladin! Jesus came forth from God before the world was. Through Jesus all was created, nothing that is was not, Scriptures say.
The plan of God was to have the Son's of God be His delight, just like Yeshua was. They failed. Then God created man, in His image. God is all knowing and He knew that men too would sin, and fall short.
But God so loved the world that He send His only begotten Son, that soever believeth, believeth on Him, should not perish but have everlasting life.
Some think that Jesus was one of the Angels, I don't. Because Scripture in Hebrew tells us differently.
God only begotten His Son once. At the very beginning of Yeshua.
Jesus emptied Himself of His glory to become a man. Scripture in Phil. tells us so. Phil. 2:1-8
John 1;1-14
Rev. 19:13-16
Rev. shows us that not always The Word of God is the word of God. Not literal. Even so Jesus came forth from God. In John 1:14 the Word became flesh. And Rev. 19 shows us that Jesus will come back as The Word of God and King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The Word of God, God, King, Lord and LORD are all titles given by the Translators. In our Rye Study Bible of KJ in the footnotes it tells us so…Before I read that I was confused to what God was, with all those titles.
John 6:1
John 8:58
John 3:17
John 17:5
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
Peace and Love Irene(P)
Quote May I ask dear sister – Do you believe in three begettals for Jesus? (I) Paladin! Jesus came forth from God before the world was. Through Jesus all was created, nothing that is was not, Scriptures say.
The plan of God was to have the Son's of God be His delight, just like Yeshua was. They failed. Then God created man, in His image. God is all knowing and He knew that men too would sin, and fall short.
But God so loved the world that He send His only begotten Son, that soever believeth, believeth on Him, should not perish but have everlasting life.
Some think that Jesus was one of the Angels, I don't. Because Scripture in Hebrew tells us differently.
God only begotten His Son once. At the very beginning of Yeshua.Thank you dear sister in Christ;
The reason for my question is simple. I am totally unfamiliar with what those folks believe who are not trinitarian, but believe in pre-existance of Jesus. I figure the best way to find out is to ask one who has those beliefs.Now, that brings to mind an observation and a further question, if you don't mind.
Observation: There is a record of Jesus being begotten of the holy Spirit in Matthew 1:20, of Mary, the betrothed of Joseph.
There is also a record of God begetting Jesus the day of his resurrection [Psalm 2:7][Acts 13:33][Heb 1:5][Heb 5:5]
I have been led to understand the “eternal begettal of Jesus' to have originated from John 1:18 “…the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
If that is correct, I need to point out the impossibility of its application to eternity, for the following reason: – John is writing about the fact that in 96 a.d. Jesus, having been resurrected, is in the bosom of the father. The verb tense is present active, therefore cannot be referencing a pre-existance of anyone. John would have to have used a different verb tense to relate a pre-existant Jesus. Either “Which was in the bosom of the Father” or “having been in the bosom of the father,” but not “which is in the bosom of the father.”
This brings us to the issue between the begettal of Jesus by the Holy Spirit in Mat 1:20 – “That which is begotten of the spirit is Spirit” according to John 3:6. The begettal by the Father at the resurrection is God begetting from the dead a spiritual body. This tells us there are three types of begettal, just as there are three types of begettal for all men; begotten of human parents, begotten of the Spirit into Christ (or begotten by the gospel which I think is the same), and our own begettal from the dead at our resurrection.
There is no begettal in eternity prior to creation, but I am not sure you claim there is. Therefore, the reason for my asking.
(I)
Quote Jesus emptied Himself of His glory to become a man. Scripture in Phil. tells us so. Phil. 2:1-8 O.K. now to Paul's message in Philippians two – Paul is reminding the saints of a previous event in their lives, when he reminds them not to be terrified by their adversaries [Php 1:28], then enjoins them “If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.”
Jesus was “born to be king” – “Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.” [John 18:37]
Jesus could have commanded angels – “Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?” [Mat 26:53-54]
Jesus understood the futility of trying to fight off the Messianic fate prophesied in the scriptures, and again, set the apostles an example.
He emptied himself of the pomp and glory of having been born to be king, and of being born having command of angels, to take the form of a servant when he washed the feet of his disciples, and explained to them what it was he had done.
Paul is reminding the saints of the example Jesus set for them in John 13, when he washed the disciples feet. He tells them to “have this mind in you which is also in Christ Jesus, who being in form of God…” And once more, the verb is in the present active tense, and cannot be talking about a pre-existent Jesus. “Have” is imperative, and “being” is present active.
The verb is shared between “Have,” of “have thismind,” and
“is” of “is also in Christ Jesus.” It cannot be “was” because of the verb tenses. The timing of the event Paul is describing during the time Jesus was a living man upon the earth, not a spirit being dwelling in pre-creation eternity.(I)
Quote John 1;1-14 John 1:1 In the beginning was ho logos, and ho logos was with ton theon, and ho logos was theos.
In the third phrase of this verse, “ho logos” and “theos” are inconvertible terms, that is, are unexchangeable, cannot be understood to be equal and the same.
In John 1:14, when “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not. You can look in all the commentaries ever written, and I do not think you will find this covered anywhere because the scholars did not comprehend the enormity of what they were saying about what they were seeing. They admit the terms are inconvertible, but never mention the natural consequence of that being the case.
I will not try to cover any more for now. I think our plate is full.
Grace and Hope to you and yours from me and mine.
Addendum:
John said “in the beginning was the logos and the logos was with God and the logos was God. John never said “and the logos is God.” The reason John could not say “the logos is God” is because the logos changed[1:14], God did not.
That must be considered in examining this issue.
Paladin……….Well put brother, i hope and pray others here can come to see this also brother. Thanks for all your effort to clarify these things, i wish i could have presented this more clearly in the past brother. But my understanding of the Greek Tenses and language expression isn't that good, i go more on what and how i percieve things, i believe GOD let's me understand things, but sometime i have a hard time expressing in simply term so other can understand them. Your posts add soundness to scripture and i for one am grateful you are here brother.
Peace and love to you and yours and all who love the truth in Christ Jesus our Lord………………………..gene
Quote (Paladin @ Mar. 27 2011,11:33) The reason John could not say “the logos is God” is because the logos changed[1:14], God did not. That must be considered in examining this issue.
Hi PallidinBut if the Logos was God and it changed then God changed right?
Isn't Gods word ” immutable” like God (the Word was God)?
Did the Word which was God change? Could it be that John is starting the prologue off by showing us the Word “Was” with God in the beginning and was God without flesh in the beginning but now the Word has come in the flesh and that Word is still the Word that never changes. The Word (Spirit) now living in the flesh.
What did Jesus mean when he said…
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Matt 24:35
If the “word” (logos) changes then what it was before it changed would have passed away, right?
WJ
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