- This topic has 3,215 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
Gene,
You seem to use some words in unconventional ways as I find them hard to understand.
Quote “So a man thinks so He (IS) Here is the KJV translation but YLT is easier to understand if you think of heart in the sense of midst and the man’s soul being united with his seat of character, aka spirit.
Quote Proverbs 23
King James Version (KJV)7For as he thinketh in his heart so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart (midst) is not with thee.
Quote Proverbs 23
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)7For as he hath thought in his soul, so [is] he, `Eat and drink,' saith he to thee, And his heart (midst) [is] not with thee.
Quote The Spirit (INTELLECT) of GOD is the way GOD Thinks, the Spirit(intellect) of the World is the way the world thinks. Quote Philippians 2
King James Version (KJV)5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
I believe you are referring to this scripture and since mindis a synonym of mindset, attitude, behaviorism, and others I therefore disagree with you. I disagree since having the same mind as God, which Christ Jesus does, is the fruit of the Spirit of God and not the Spirit itself. If you instead mean having the same mind is the manifestation of the Spirit then I agree.
Quote Sow to the Spiirt of GOD and you will have life So to the Spiriit of the World and you will reap death. Quote Galatians 5
King James Version (KJV)16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.It sounds like you are paraphrasing the above passage from Galatians 5.
Quote For the Kingdom of GOD is like unto a Man who Planted good seed in his field and went to bed and rose the next day, and soon the Seed began to grow HE DID NOT KNOW HOW IT GROW FOR THE EARTH (heart) brings forth from itself first a blade then the small head appears then the full head , and when it is fully ripe and ready he goes forth and harvests it Quote 1 Corinthians 3:6
King James Version (KJV)
6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.It sounds like another paraphrase.
Quote God Spirit produces of it self (IN) our hearts this is making the cup clean on the (INSIDE) that the outside may be clean also. What ever we do is a result of Spirit that is working (IN) Us rather of the World or OF GOD. IMO Living by the Spirit of God is a clean inside of the cup because the seat of the inner man’s character is then saintly.
Quote Matthew 23:26
King James Version (KJV)26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
The fruit of a saintly character is the cleanliness of the outside of the dish as the man’s works are then saintly.
That is why Jesus instructs us to be born of water and the saintly Spirit.
Quote John 3:5
King James Version (KJV)5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Pierre,
I have made known that which has been revealed to me about 1 Corinthians 8:6 in particular and 1 Corinthian 8 in general and you have discussed what was revealed to you. I see no benefit in going much further in the discussion about that passage but you have mentioned some things and have touched on other things that interest me.
Quote but let first establish some thing did Christ came for all men or only for the believers but not the others It is written that he came to save all men.
Quote John 3
New International Version (NIV)16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
It is further written that only those humans that believe will be saved while those who do not will be condemned.
Quote John 3
New International Version (NIV)18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Quote but if we receive salvation from God ,then we received it the way he has planed it ,right ? yes Those who believe do.
Quote and this would be the next thing Paul says ;there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. There is one King through whom all things come and that King is Jesus Anointed. God is the Source all things and is the one who made Jesus King of all things in heaven and on earth.
Quote BECAUSE “ALL THINGS ARE NOT HIS, ,,,IF CHRIST LIVE BEGINS ONLY AT HIS BIRTH AS A MAN ,THEN HE IS JUST A MERE MAN AND CAN NOT SAVE ANYONE, All thinks became Jesus Anointed’s when God made him King of all things in heaven and on earth.
Quote PAUL SAYS THAT CHRIST HAS SUPREMACY OF ALL THINGS (COL;1;18; so that IN everything(ALL THINGS) he might have the supremacy.) Jesus Anointed obtained Supremacy of all things when he was appointed King of all things in heaven and on earth.
Quote IF YOU WOULD HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT YOU WOULD HAVE UNDERSTAND THIS LONG AGO, The one who has the Spirit of Christ is the one that believes they can and will stop sinning by the power of God for God does as he says and all things are possible for him. Do you believe that is so?
kerwin
Quote The one who has the Spirit of Christ is the one that believes they can and will stop sinning by the power of God for God does as he says and all things are possible for him. Do you believe that is so? the spirit of Christ is not the believer,and it is not only to believe but to do what Christ did that is to be submit to Gods will,totally in ALL THINGS.
I do not understand what you mean by the POWER OF GOD ? it looks like that it is God that do everything ,
Quote There is one King through whom all things come and that King is Jesus Anointed. God is the Source all things and is the one who made Jesus King of all things in heaven and on earth. it seems you do not want to answer the question,you do not know wen Christ was made king, and you do not understand what supremacy means,and refuse to understand what is ALL THINGS and your understanding is not guided by God spirit if you do not consider all the scriptures and if your knowledge is restricted to only a partial knowledge of some of the scriptures so will be your understanding.
and changing the words to support your personal believes does not preach truth of God.Quote Jesus Anointed obtained Supremacy of all things when he was appointed King of all things in heaven and on earth. this is not what scriptures are saying.and wen was this suppose to be happen???
Quote I have made known that which has been revealed to me our understanding are not revelation if not guided by the scriptures they are false ,but many do not see truth in scriptures for God is not there primary source of knowledge because they have there own mind on things,and so God is second to them,and only pretend that he is first ,
Quote (Paladin @ Sep. 30 2011,09:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2011,10:10) Quote (Paladin @ Sep. 21 2011,02:23)
Scripture tells us of a root that dried up, and could bear no fruit “from the tree.”That makes perfect sense. If the root dries up, the things that FOLLOW cannot be. The fruit FOLLOWS the root. Root FIRST, fruit LATER.
When the sower went forth to sow, did he plant seeds or roots. Mike?
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit………
What do you understand to be the relationship between the seed, the root, the plant, the fruit, the leaves, the branches, the shade and the comfort?
Hi Paladin,The sower plants seeds. But if you'll notice from Matthew 13:6 and 8, no fruit will be brought forth unless first the root takes hold. So AFTER the root takes hold and develops, THEN come the branches, leaves, and fruit from the plant.
The seed is a whole different matter, for it represents both the beginning of a cycle and the end of a cycle. The seed is the end result of the first plant, coming AFTER the root, branch, and fruit. But when it falls to the ground and DIES, it becomes the beginning of a brand new cycle, which will again begin with the root and be followed by the branch and the fruit. (1 Cor 15:36-37)
But we are not discussing the cycles of seeds here. We are trying to determine what comes first after the seed dies. And let's face it, there will never be a branch or a fruit unless FIRST the root takes hold.
FIRST the root, THEN the branch, THEN the fruit.
It is scriptural that David is the root of Jesus – ACCORDING TO THE FLESH – making Jesus the branch of David. But it is equally scriptural that Jesus is ALSO the Root of David, meaning that in some way, Jesus came BEFORE David. The knowledge that he was both the Root AND the Branch of David is what Jesus was trying to pass on to the Pharisees in Matthew 22:41-45.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2011,13:34) Quote (Paladin @ Sep. 30 2011,08:54) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) The FACT of the matter is that sometimes “rhema” just refers to any old word spoken by any old person. And sometimes “logos” just refers to any old word spoken by any old person. Claims without examples.
1 Cor 2:4
My conversation and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power,Mat 22:15
Then the Pharisees went out and planned together to entrap him with his own words.1Co 14:19
but in the church I want to speak five words with my mind to instruct others, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.Joh 10:19
Another sharp division took place among the Jewish people because of these words.The above “words” are all “logos”, and seem to refer to ordinary, everyday WORDS.
1 Peter 1:25
but the word of the Lord endures forever. And this is the word that was proclaimed to you.Eph 5
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,Rom 10:8
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we preach)Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.These bolded “words” are ALL “rhema”, Paladin. Pay close attention to Heb 11:3 and 1 Peter 1:25 and tell me how that's a “record” and not a “concept”.
Tell me how the phrases “word of God” and “word of the Lord” mean something different because of the word “rhema” than they would have meant if the writer used the word “logos”.
Paladin, I can post scriptures like this all day long. I can post uses of “logos” AND “rhema” that refer to the mystical “word of God”, and I can post instances where BOTH words are used to describe just a simple spoken or written word by ANYONE.
Your theory is debunked. Like I told Kerwin (to which he agreed), if you took one scripture at a time, I might agree with your “concept versus record” theory 50% of the time. But you are careless to make a blanket statement that includes EVERY mention of “logos” or “rhema” in the entire scriptures. The scriptures simply don't bear this claim out.
Tell me Mike, when scripture tells you Satan is “the God of this world,” do you have to try to figure out who “God” is everytime you see it in the new Testament Scripture?Neither you nor I have to figure out which is being referenced when “logos” or “reema” is identified, because the scriptures already took the guess work out of it for us.
When Paul tells us something about reema, why do you fight it so hard?
When John tells us something about “logos” why do you think it means reema? Or the same thing Reema means?
If you read somewhere that someone is beaten “black and blue” do you thing it means two shades of gray?
Or do you think black and blue are just two words meaning
“color?”Reema and logos do not mean the same thing.
Reema seem to reference written the written account, while logos seems to reference the concept that the is about; i.e., the thought behind the written account.
The problem is, sometimes in scripture the two seem to get mixed as though it doesn't matter, and that adds to the confusion among scholars.
How (logos) and reema are used in some scriptures:
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the reema which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these logos [words] which the LORD commanded him.
8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the logos of the people unto the LORD.
9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the [reema] of the people unto the LORD. [Exo 9:6-9]“And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these [reema] words: for after the tenor of these [logos] I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.” [Exo 34:7]
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the reema of God:
LOGOS
Hebrews 4:12 For the logos of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.“…the reema which I have spoken unto you are spirit and are life.” John 6:63
When Paul tells us the Spirit is the reema of God; and John tells us the logos was God, you don't discern a difference? I have given you everything I know to give you mike, you may just have to figure it out for yourself; I just don't know if it is you or me the spirit is trying here. I suggest we both practice patience over this issue.
It is much like when two people agree on the “terms” of a contract, then fall out over the “terminology” when it is written, both thinking “terms” and “terminology” mean the same thing; until they see it in written form. Many words seem adequate in discussion, that fall short when written into a form requiring a signature testifying agreement between two men. All of a sudden, words seem to take on new meaning.
That is why lawyers are so plentiful in this country…
“understood” matters suddenly take on new meaning when in written form. We can even write a letter of agreement, give it to our lawyers to put it into contract form, and then fall out over the resulting terminology.Quote (Paladin @ Oct. 01 2011,09:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2011,13:34) The FACT of the matter is that sometimes “rhema” just refers to any old word spoken by any old person. And sometimes “logos” just refers to any old word spoken by any old person. Pay close attention to Heb 11:3 and 1 Peter 1:25 and tell me how that's a “record” and not a “concept”.
Tell me how the phrases “word of God” and “word of the Lord” mean something different because of the word “rhema” than they would have meant if the writer used the word “logos”.
The problem is, sometimes in scripture the two seem to get mixed as though it doesn't matter, and that adds to the confusion among scholars.
You've hit the nail right on the head, Paladin. They “seem to get mixed as though it doesn't matter” because it DOESN'T matter.They are two words that mean “word”. The context tells us what “word” in each particular scripture means, not the choice of “rhema” over “logos” or vice versa.
Please DIRECTLY answer the bolded question above.
mike
Quote (Paladin @ Oct. 01 2011,09:04) When Paul tells us the Spirit is the reema of God; and John tells us the logos was God, you don't discern a difference?
Paul doesn't tell us the spirit is the “rhema” of God, nor does John tell us the “logos” is God.Knowing is half the battle, Paladin.
Kerwin………..So a man thinks is the result of his mind or mind set, as you say. we have No difference in that as i see it. But here is where the difference lies you believe a Mind is not Part of one Body, while i believe it is and when that person dies his mind stops working and also i believe that a Mind can absorb Spirit (INTELLECTS) and Spirit can enter our physical minds and exit them as well much like when a man goes in and out of a House.
But nowhere does scripture say a dead man has an active Soul still thinking or living in another state of existence. I believe scripture shows when a man dies that is it until there is a resurrection of that Body and the breathe of Life enters back into it and that man again becomes a “LIVING” soul, And God can remove wrong Spirit and replace it with the right Spirit (INTELLECTS) but these spirit go into a “LIVING SOUL” Not a dead one. You or anyone else for that matter have produced no Sound scriptures that shows their is a living Soul after Death, and if there was there would be no need for a resurrection anyway now would there be?.
This is Just the way i see it Kerwin and i do believe scriptures back it up as i have posted here already brother. O and By the way Kerwin, what i said about the man planting good seed in his Field here is what i was relating to brother.
Mar 4:26 ….> And he said, so is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; vers 27…> and should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he (KNOWS NOT HOW), vers 28….> For the earth (heart) brings forth fruit of herself; first the blade , then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. vers 29…But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he puts in the sickle, becasue the harvest is come.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 01 2011,10:22) But nowhere does scripture say a dead man has an active Soul still thinking or living in another state of existence.
Rev 6
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”This scripture not only shows that the souls of the dead can “think”, but that they can cry out to God.
Mike………The Word written as Reema of GOD is FROM the LOGOS of GOD , the SPIRIT inspiring them as Paladin is showing us that GOD who is a Spirit (which is the intellect) which is the LOGOS that was (IN) the flesh man Jesus. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………………..gene
Gene,
Although what you posted was in English, I haven't a clue what you are saying.
I will remind you that the logos BECAME flesh. He did not come to be IN someone who was flesh. If one must change the scriptures for their doctrine to be realized, then something is wrong with that doctrine.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,04:12) Gene, Although what you posted was in English, I haven't a clue what you are saying.
I will remind you that the logos BECAME flesh. He did not come to be IN someone who was flesh. If one must change the scriptures for their doctrine to be realized, then something is wrong with that doctrine.
Mike………So lets see who is changing Scriptures, John 1:1 says, “In the beginning the word (Logos) and the word (LOGOS)was with GOD and the word (LOGOS) was GOD”..Now Mike and the rest of the trinitarians and Preexistences rendition of this clear scripture.
John 1:1…> in the beginning was Jesus (Logos) and the Jesus (Logos) was with GOD and the Jesus (logos) was GOD.
So mike please tell us who is changing Scripture to meet their dogmas, Me or YOU and the rest of your trinitarians and Preexistences brothers?
Mike your complete understanding of scriptures is based on false understandings of what the LOGOS is and as a result come up with all kinds of false assumptions as to what they are actually saying IMO and Others say by the way also.
peace and love…………………………………………..gene
Mike……….Did Jesus not say the FATHER (WHO IS GOD) was (IN) Him. Just simply put it together and you will be amazed how many scripture will begin to make sense to you.
peace and love…………………………………………………………………..gene
Gene,
You need to research John 1:1 a little more. The Word is never called “THE God” in that verse. And “THE God” is the only one we call “God”, with a capped “G”.
All others are called “gods” in English, with a lower case “g”.
And since the Word was WITH “THE God” in the beginning, he couldn't possibly have BEEN “THE God”.
1:1 speaks of TWO persons. One of them was “THE God” while the other one was was WITH “THE God”. That other one was also a mighty one, and therefore called a “god” in Biblical times – just like Satan was called a “god” in Biblical times.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 01 2011,11:48) Mike……….Did Jesus not say the FATHER (WHO IS GOD) was (IN) Him. Just simply put it together and you will be amazed how many scripture will begin to make sense to you. peace and love…………………………………………………………………..gene
Gene,The scriptures make perfect sense to me just as they are. And I don't have to MAKE CHANGES to them in order for them to make sense – like you do.
I don't have to change “the Word BECAME flesh” to “the Word CAME TO BE IN SOMEONE WHO WAS flesh”.
I don't have to change “I came down from heaven” to “THE SPIRIT INSIDE OF ME came down from heaven”.
I don't have to change “I am the Root and the Offspring of David” to “I am FROM THE ROOTS and the Offspring of David”.
I don't have to change “All angels are ministering spirits” to “All angels HAVE MINISTERING SPIRITS INSIDE OF THEM”.
I don't have to change “the glory I had with you before the world” to “the glory THE THOUGHT OF ME IN YOUR HEAD had with you before the world”.
I like the understanding the scriptures give me WITHOUT all the changes you have to perform.
Mike……..(ALL) scriptures in the original GREEK text were written with UPPER CASE LETTERS, so when did you decide to change them. No Where is the text referring to a “LITTLE” god . Just another of you false renditions of scripture IMO and Others I might add. It alway amazes me how you people have to go into all these twist and turns to make scripture say what in fact it simply is not saying then turn around and say others are doing it instead of you that is a JOKE at best. .IMO
peace and love…………………………………………………………………gene
Okay Gene,
So in your opinion, any “god” mentioned in the scriptures should be with capped “G”? Should Satan be called the God of this world – with a capped “G”?
How about in Isaiah 9:6? Should the forthcoming Messiah be called “Mighty God” with a capped “G”, making us thing he IS the God who foretold of his coming?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,05:01) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 01 2011,11:48) Mike……….Did Jesus not say the FATHER (WHO IS GOD) was (IN) Him. Just simply put it together and you will be amazed how many scripture will begin to make sense to you. peace and love…………………………………………………………………..gene
Gene,The scriptures make perfect sense to me just as they are. And I don't have to MAKE CHANGES to them in order for them to make sense – like you do.
I don't have to change “the Word BECAME flesh” to “the Word CAME TO BE IN SOMEONE WHO WAS flesh”.
I don't have to change “I came down from heaven” to “THE SPIRIT INSIDE OF ME came down from heaven”.
I don't have to change “I am the Root and the Offspring of David” to “I am FROM THE ROOTS and the Offspring of David”.
I don't have to change “All angels are ministering spirits” to “All angels HAVE MINISTERING SPIRITS INSIDE OF THEM”.
I don't have to change “the glory I had with you before the world” to “the glory THE THOUGHT OF ME IN YOUR HEAD had with you before the world”.
I like the understanding the scriptures give me WITHOUT all the changes you have to perform.
Mike……….So the scriptures make Perfect sense to you right, the Please answer the question, Did Jesus say ” THE FATHER WHO IS IN ME (HE) DO THE THE WORKS”. and while you are at it answer this also, “DO YOU N OT BELIEVE THAT THE FATHER IS (in) ME”? And let not forget Thomas famous remarks , ” My Lord (AND) My GOD” now please tell us which one of these or parts of them you do not believe> Because it is obvious you truly do not believe them.Mike you are the biggest changer of what scripture is truly saying then anyone here IMO and OTHERS also BY the WAY>
peace and love………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 01 2011,12:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 02 2011,05:01) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 01 2011,11:48) Mike……….Did Jesus not say the FATHER (WHO IS GOD) was (IN) Him. Just simply put it together and you will be amazed how many scripture will begin to make sense to you. peace and love…………………………………………………………………..gene
Gene,The scriptures make perfect sense to me just as they are. And I don't have to MAKE CHANGES to them in order for them to make sense – like you do.
I don't have to change “the Word BECAME flesh” to “the Word CAME TO BE IN SOMEONE WHO WAS flesh”.
I don't have to change “I came down from heaven” to “THE SPIRIT INSIDE OF ME came down from heaven”.
I don't have to change “I am the Root and the Offspring of David” to “I am FROM THE ROOTS and the Offspring of David”.
I don't have to change “All angels are ministering spirits” to “All angels HAVE MINISTERING SPIRITS INSIDE OF THEM”.
I don't have to change “the glory I had with you before the world” to “the glory THE THOUGHT OF ME IN YOUR HEAD had with you before the world”.
I like the understanding the scriptures give me WITHOUT all the changes you have to perform.
Mike……….So the scripture make Perfect sense to you right, the Please answer the question, Did Jesus say ” THE FATHER WHO IS IN ME (HE) DO THE THE WORKS”. and while you are at it answer this also, “DO YOU N OT BELIEVE THAT THE FATHER IS (in) ME”? And let not forget Thomas famous remarks , ” My Lord (AND) My GOD” now please tell us which one of these or parts of them you do not believe> Because it is obvious you truly do not believe them.Mike you are the biggest changer of what scripture is truly saying then anyone here IMO and OTHERS also BY the WAY>
peace and love………………………………………..gene
Gene,
I noticed you didn't DENY any of the changes YOU make to scripture that I posted, but then ended your post with, “Mike you are the biggest changer of what scripture is truly saying then anyone here……..”
That is RICH, man! Gene, the Father being “in” Jesus is metaphorical. The BEING of God remained in heaven the whole time Jesus was on earth. Do you DENY this fact also?
Quote (Paladin @ Oct. 02 2011,02:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2011,13:34) Quote (Paladin @ Sep. 30 2011,08:54) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) The FACT of the matter is that sometimes “rhema” just refers to any old word spoken by any old person. And sometimes “logos” just refers to any old word spoken by any old person. Claims without examples.
1 Cor 2:4
My conversation and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power,Mat 22:15
Then the Pharisees went out and planned together to entrap him with his own words.1Co 14:19
but in the church I want to speak five words with my mind to instruct others, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.Joh 10:19
Another sharp division took place among the Jewish people because of these words.The above “words” are all “logos”, and seem to refer to ordinary, everyday WORDS.
1 Peter 1:25
but the word of the Lord endures forever. And this is the word that was proclaimed to you.Eph 5
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,Rom 10:8
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we preach)Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.These bolded “words” are ALL “rhema”, Paladin. Pay close attention to Heb 11:3 and 1 Peter 1:25 and tell me how that's a “record” and not a “concept”.
Tell me how the phrases “word of God” and “word of the Lord” mean something different because of the word “rhema” than they would have meant if the writer used the word “logos”.
Paladin, I can post scriptures like this all day long. I can post uses of “logos” AND “rhema” that refer to the mystical “word of God”, and I can post instances where BOTH words are used to describe just a simple spoken or written word by ANYONE.
Your theory is debunked. Like I told Kerwin (to which he agreed), if you took one scripture at a time, I might agree with your “concept versus record” theory 50% of the time. But you are careless to make a blanket statement that includes EVERY mention of “logos” or “rhema” in the entire scriptures. The scriptures simply don't bear this claim out.
Tell me Mike, when scripture tells you Satan is “the God of this world,” do you have to try to figure out who “God” is everytime you see it in the new Testament Scripture?Neither you nor I have to figure out which is being referenced when “logos” or “reema” is identified, because the scriptures already took the guess work out of it for us.
When Paul tells us something about reema, why do you fight it so hard?
When John tells us something about “logos” why do you think it means reema? Or the same thing Reema means?
If you read somewhere that someone is beaten “black and blue” do you thing it means two shades of gray?
Or do you think black and blue are just two words meaning
“color?”Reema and logos do not mean the same thing.
Reema seem to reference written the written account, while logos seems to reference the concept that the is about; i.e., the thought behind the written account.
The problem is, sometimes in scripture the two seem to get mixed as though it doesn't matter, and that adds to the confusion among scholars.
How (logos) and reema are used in some scriptures:
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the reema which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these logos [words] which the LORD commanded him.
8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the logos of the people unto the LORD.
9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the [reema] of the people unto the LORD. [Exo 9:6-9]“And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these [reema] words: for after the tenor of these [logos] I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.” [Exo 34:7]
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the reema of God:
LOGOS
Hebrews 4:12 For the logos of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.“…the reema which I have spoken unto you are spirit and are life.” John 6:63
When Paul tells us the Spirit is the reema of God; and John tells us the logos was God, you don't discern a difference? I have given you everything I know to give you mike, you may just have to figure it out for yourself; I just don't know if it is you or me the spirit is trying here. I suggest we both practice patience over this issue.
It is much like when two people agree on the “terms” of a contract, then fall out over the “terminology” when it is written, both thinking “terms” and “terminology” mean the same thing; until they see it in written form. Many words seem adequate in discussion, that fall short when written into a form requiring a signature testifying agreement between two men. All of a sudden, words seem to take on new meaning.
That is why lawyers are so plentiful in this country…
“understood” matters suddenly take on new meaning when in written form. We can even write a letter of agreement, give it to our lawyers to put it into contract form, and then fall out over the resulting terminology.
Hi Paladin,Thank you for this post as I see it this way as well.
God's ideas(“The Logos”) were written(Rhema) by His “Spirit”.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
