Examination of the incarnation doctrine.

[Pastry]

Mike! No matter what you say, Kerwin, Gene and Marty will never understand that Jesus is not just a mere man…. To even imply this makes me wonder if they have Gods Son in mind…. How can they even consider that He is a mere man…. HE IS GODS SON…. While we are the Adopted Sons of God…. Not the begotten Sons of God, that alone is greater the any man….Then we have all those Scriptures that teach us that He is the beginning of the creation of God…. Before anything else was created…He came from Heaven to do the will of His Father who sent Him…. Those are Jesus words… And they are calling Him a liar…how sad…..
Peace Irene

[kerwin]

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 03 2011,10:52)

Mike!  No matter what you say, Kerwin, Gene and Marty will never understand that Jesus is not just a mere man…. To even imply this makes me wonder if they have Gods Son in mind…. How can they even consider that He is a mere man…. HE IS GODS SON…. While we are the Adopted Sons of God…. Not the begotten Sons of God, that alone is greater the any man….Then we have all those Scriptures that teach us that He is the beginning of the creation of God…. Before anything else was created…He came from Heaven to do the will of His Father who sent Him…. Those are Jesus words… And they are calling Him a liar…how sad….. Peace Irene

Irene,

Those that are falling short of the glory of God are not the sons of God but are instead the sons of the Evil One.

Jesus both shattered the relationship to Satan of those that obey all his teachings and signed their adoption papers to God by his act of self sacrifice.

Jesus was never bound to Satan because his faith was complete and thus he fullfilled the proverb that the “righteous live by faith” even to the point of suffering and death.

[Pastry]

Quote

Those that are falling short of the glory of God are not the sons of God but are instead the sons of the Evil One.

Those that judge will be judged,…. that you my friend just did…..truth is truth and the Scriptures say Jesus is not just a mere man…. but the only begotten of the Father John 1:14 The Word of God……..

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Can you read?

[Paladin]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2011,15:09)

Paladin, I consider these conversations to be public conversation where anyone can join as they see fit.   PM's are for private conversations.

What is this in reference to?

[Pastry]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2011,16:48)

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 03 2011,10:52) Mike!  No matter what you say, Kerwin, Gene and Marty will never understand that Jesus is not just a mere man…. To even imply this makes me wonder if they have Gods Son in mind…. How can they even consider that He is a mere man…. HE IS GODS SON…. While we are the Adopted Sons of God…. Not the begotten Sons of God, that alone is greater the any man….Then we have all those Scriptures that teach us that He is the beginning of the creation of God…. Before anything else was created…He came from Heaven to do the will of His Father who sent Him…. Those are Jesus words… And they are calling Him a liar…how sad….. Peace Irene Irene, Those that are falling short of the glory of God are not the sons of God but are instead the sons of the Evil One. Jesus both shattered the relationship to Satan of those that obey all his teachings and signed their adoption papers to God by his act of self sacrifice. Jesus was never bound to Satan because his faith was complete and thus he fullfilled the proverb that the “righteous live by faith” even to the point of suffering and death.

One more thing,,, it says all have fallen short of the glory of God, that includes YOU…

Rom 3:23   For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I have no idea why you even said that in that post, I didn't….

[Paladin]

Irene –
IF THIS IS TRUE –
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

AND THIS –
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

AND THIS –
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him

AND THIS –
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

AND THIS –
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS –

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 03 2011,15:52)

we are the Adopted Sons of God…. Not the begotten Sons of God….

[Paladin]

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 03 2011,20:09)

I forgot to mention –

“Born” and “Begotten” are translated from the same Greek word.

[GeneBalthrop]

Paladin……………You are right they are translated from the same word and mean the same in scripture. Irene Jumps in with both feet like she knows what she is talking about but does not consider any of the scripture we posted to her, she simply accuse anyone who does not agree with her dogmas as wrong. Like she knows what she is talking about when in fact she forces scripture to meet her dogmas.

But what You and Kerwin, Marty and i have told her and her two companions Mike and Pierre is the truth rather they believe it or not, that is their problem. They are caught up in their “MYSTERY RELIGION” ,that “SEPARATES Jesus from our EXACT IDENTITY and they worship the messenger and set him up as their Idol and they do not worship the one who sent him or they would believe GOD and what He Said ” HE ALONE AND BY HIMSELF” created everything that exists, nor do they believe Jesus himself or his apostle correctly or they would understand these things. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Paladin………………………………………………..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2011,15:09)

Gene, Quote Mike you should not chide the TRINITARIANS they believe Just like you do,  in fact their teachings is where you originally got your SEPARATIST doctrine form I am of the opinion that it was the other way as the book  of Hebrews addresses a false doctrine that taught that Jesus Anointed is an angel with these words among others. Quote Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV) 5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. and Quote Hebrews 2 King James Version (KJV) 5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him? 7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Kerwin……………I agree with that also those scripture do prove the point you make and i have posted them in the past also to prove that same point brother. I have showed Jesus was a Man created lower then the Angels Just like we are and was the First to recieve that Crown of Glory and Honor that is afforded all mankind by God the Father. These false teaching SEPARATISTS Never cease trying to make Jesus  a non Human and different then we are do they? They make him into a  “Man of Sin” by setting him up as their IDOL. Just as Paul said in 2 Ths 2. But to us AND  Jesus, there is ONLY (ONE) TRUE GOD AND FATHER of ALL> And there is only one MEDIATOR between GOD and MAN   “the (MAN) Jesus Christ IMO Not a MORPHED ANGEL of any kind. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 02 2011,22:52)

He came from Heaven to do the will of His Father who sent Him…. Those are Jesus words… And they are calling Him a liar…how sad…..

Amen

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 03 2011,08:35)

Kerwin……………I agree with that also those scripture do prove the point you make and i have posted them in the past also to prove that same point brother.

Hi Gene,

Speaking of scriptures you've posted…………………were you ever going to get around to posting your second scripture that “prohibits” Jesus from having pre-existed?

So far, you've only offered Gen 3:15, which didn't prohibit Jesus from pre-existing.  Is that the only one you have?  

peace,
mike

[GeneBalthrop]

To all……………No one here is saying Jesus did not come into “EXISTENCE” to do GODS WILL and Bring us His words. WE are saying he did not come into existence as a “MORPHED BEING” or “PREEXISTENT BEING” of Any Kind, NOT a GOD or an Angel or anything, other then a Human being who came into “EXISTENCE  at his berth on this earth. Jesus was foreordained as Peter said he was, BUT ” WAS MANIFESTED” (brought into existence in his time). Just that simple no “MYSTERY MORPHING RELIGION ” NEEDED to understand this. IMO

peace and love to you all……………………………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Hi Gene,

What you are SAYING, and what you can scripturally PROVE seem to be two different things.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 04 2011,02:03)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 03 2011,08:35) Kerwin……………I agree with that also those scripture do prove the point you make and i have posted them in the past also to prove that same point brother. Hi Gene, Speaking of scriptures you've posted…………………were you ever going to get around to posting your second scripture that “prohibits” Jesus from having pre-existed? So far, you've only offered Gen 3:15, which didn't prohibit Jesus from pre-existing.  Is that the only one you have?   peace, mike

Mike……….Wrong I have posted others also like the root things as Jesus being the Root of Jesse and King David. But see your ignorance and deceptions trying to make it like i never posted any others is at work again to try to belittle what i posted, Your quite the Manipulator here aren't you Mike?. Tell us me mike do you want me to list the 70 or so scriptures that say Jesus was a SON of MAN also do you really think they would convince you of anything. I Highly doubt it. You would use you same lame argument and say ” well now does the prohibit him from being a “MORPHED MAN” from a State of and ANGEL as if that state was anything over MANKIND, so around and around we would go solving nothing . It is just the same old thing as the Spirit Having Bodies thing you believe in and wrestled with Istari about until you kicked him off the site. Your preconceived Mindset has done its Job and will probably remain with what you got until your rude awaking happens. IMO

peace and love……………………………………..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 04 2011,02:20)

Hi Gene, What you are SAYING, and what you can scripturally PROVE seem to be two different things.

Mike…………..Your argument is with Peter and Jesus not me. Yu simply do not believe he was Just a SON of MAN , Just like we all are. that is your Problem not ours. You can think of Jesus anyway you want make him your IDOL if that make you fell good , but it is you who force and distort scriptures all the while claiming that it is others doing it. You simple are a brain washed Preexistence and a close relative to the Trinitarians also who are also Preexistences very similar to you. They also are SEPARATIST exactly like you. IMO

peace and love………………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 03 2011,09:27)

Tell us me mike do you want me to list the 70 or so scriptures that say Jesus was a SON of MAN also do you really think they would convince you of anything. I Highly doubt it. You would use you same lame argument and say ” well now does the prohibit him from being a “MORPHED MAN” from a State of and ANGEL as if that state was anything over MANKIND, so around and around we would go solving nothing .

Bingo!  Because I DO believe Jesus was the Son of Man.  But that DOESN'T say he didn't pre-exist as a spirit being in the form of God who emptied himself to BECOME that man.

And since the “Root” thing proves Jesus was both before AND after David, it proved MY point, not YOURS.  

So you are right that we would just go round and round…………unless you actually know of a scripture that DOES prohibit Jesus from pre-existing his human nature.

But you don't, because there aren't any.  And THAT, my friend, was what this exercise was all about.  I accept the fact that you concede and admit there is no such scripture.  

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 03 2011,09:36)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 04 2011,02:20) Hi Gene, What you are SAYING, and what you can scripturally PROVE seem to be two different things.   Mike…………..Your argument is with Peter and Jesus not me. Yu simply do not believe he was Just a SON of MAN , Just like we all are. that is your Problem not ours. You can think of Jesus anyway you want make him your IDOL if that make you fell good , but it is you who force and distort scriptures all the while claiming that it is others doing it.  You simple are a brain washed Preexistence and a close relative to the Trinitarians also who are also Preexistences very similar to you. They also are SEPARATIST exactly like you. IMO peace and love………………………………..gene

It is YOUR argument that is with the scriptures, Gene. My beliefs align WITH the scriptures 100%.

There will NEVER be a human being born of 100% Adam's seed who will be without sin. It is impossible because we are all born into sin, and can not stop sinning no matter how hard we try. God realized this. That is why He sent His Son, Gene. Not to show us that humans can will themselves not to sin, but to PAY FOR the sins that we cannot possibly control.

We are saved, not because Jesus showed us how not to sin, but because he took our sin upon himself, thereby atoning for that sin, and allowing God to overlook/forgive it.

You have much to learn, Gene.

peace,
mike

[Pastry]

Quote (Paladin @ Sep. 03 2011,20:39)

Irene – IF THIS IS TRUE – John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. AND THIS – 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, AND THIS – 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him AND THIS – 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. AND THIS – 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS – Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 03 2011,15:52) we are the Adopted Sons of God…. Not the begotten Sons of God….

Paladin!
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

true, but we the born again Sons of God are not begotten from Almighty God…. That is what I am saying. While Jesus is the begotten Son of God…not just a MERE MAN, like some say He is… not just like us… He is not just like us, again He is the only begotten Son of God…….Irene

[Ed J]

Quote (Paladin @ Sep. 03 2011,20:39)

Irene – IF THIS IS TRUE – John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. AND THIS – 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, AND THIS – 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him AND THIS – 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. AND THIS – 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS – Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 03 2011,15:52) we are the Adopted Sons of God…. Not the begotten Sons of God….

Hi Paladin,

I believe Irene may be referring to these Scriptures here…
Eph.1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will
Rom.8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Pastry]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 04 2011,12:12)

Quote (Paladin @ Sep. 03 2011,20:39) Irene – IF THIS IS TRUE – John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. AND THIS – 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, AND THIS – 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him AND THIS – 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. AND THIS – 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS – Quote (Pastry @ Sep. 03 2011,15:52) we are the Adopted Sons of God…. Not the begotten Sons of God…. Hi Paladin, I believe Irene may be referring to these Scriptures here… Eph.1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will Rom.8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed! What is important, what I mean is, that Jesus is the
ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, we are not…..Irene

[Author]

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