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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 31 2011,00:16) ED J………..What Paladin has said here is right Brother, rethink you position, he is not arguing with you, but trying to show you something that is true and will aid you in you understanding and expressing of what you believe to be true brother. IMO peace and Love to you and yours…………………………gene
Hi Gene,Do you believe I'm trying to illustrate something to Paladin that is true?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 30 2011,11:22) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 30 2011,16:04) Ed J. My “theory” is a literal interpretation and the reasonable conclusions I that are drawn from it. You have not offered any reason why Luke 1:31 and 36 should not me taken literally. I would like to hear it.
As for Micah 5:2 Jesus' existence was known and planned by God long before it occurred and therefore he came forth from God.
Here is a scripture that testifies to that.
Quote Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Hi Kerwin,How would our birth preclude preexistence?
Could not both Ephesians 1:4 as well as 2Tm.1:9 be
instead indicating that we, as well as Christ, all preexisted?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.At this time I cannot with certainty eliminate the possibility that the human soul preexists the time God breaths it into the human body. That was and is not my point nor do I currently believe the answer to that question is important.
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 31 2011,03:16) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 30 2011,20:49) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 30 2011,06:15) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 29 2011,20:46) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 29 2011,19:34) Hi Paladin, You work real hard to disagree, don't you?
nothing hard about disagreeing with your last post to me. it is full of fallacies.“Beginner” tainted by religious training? come on. How is he a beginner?
Hi Paladin,The same way a baby is a beginner in the flesh.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
(1)So in your thinking, all babies are born corrupted and tainted?(2)By WHAT? Bad Teachers?
Hi Paladin,1) I didn't say that?
2) I didn't say that either?
I see you're still working hard to disagree.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed. J.Perhaps Paladin misunderstood your use of the word flesh as his point of view on the matter is not yours.
Were you speaking of the human body and not the character of man that falls short of God's glory?
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 28 2011,23:26) To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. (Rom. 16:27)
Hi Ed,Do you understand this scripture to be saying that ONLY God has glory?
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 29 2011,00:08) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 27 2011,20:00) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2011,04:44) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 27 2011,01:26) ED j……….Kerwins last statement is correct brother. Jesus or us did not preexist our berths on this earth, we were all in the “WILL” and “PLAN” of GOD but came into “BEING” at our appointed times. IMO peace and love………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Five Common Fallacies, Don't Be Fooled By Them
1) Believing what you currently think the truth is, actually is “The Truth” ?
2) Making up scenarios to illustrate this believed truth, is proof that it is true ? ?
3) Repeating ‘it’ over and over helps to substantiate, to others, the fact IT IS true ? ? ?
5) Believing that if you get others to agree with you, is FURTHER proof that ‘it’ is correct ? ? ? ?
4) Believing counter arguments are all ‘fake’, while your own scenarios are rock solid PROOF ? ? ? ? ?THE (real) TRUTH
By Ed J.
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
(A) What's that supposed to demonstrate Ed? (B) You just described all communication between men.(C) Even YOU use the same tools, (D) and you are certainly convinced you are correct in understanding.
Hi Paladin,Good to here from you again!
A) Demonstrate? …It's an illustration of the fallacies that what people believe constitutes proof of their truth to others!
B) Where is the proof of this assertion? Are you going to just make blanket statements, or can you actually offer PROOF?C) I use many tools, including Scriptural backing!
D) I have studied the bible intensively for over 40 years.Most people understand The Bible with the understanding of a man. (Isaiah 55:7-11)
“The Bible” is best understood in much the same way “Optics” are understood.
What I mean is: “The Bible” must be understood as “a whole”, Gen. to Rev.But how is this done? Let us use “Optics” as a comparative example; OK?
The closer you look at something, the less that can be seen in the field of view.
And likewise, the focus of detail is lost with the greater field of view. I hope you are
getting all this? This is quite a conundrum, as you can only read one Bible verse at a time.Consider what it would take to make a map without the advent of aerial photography?
First you must understand each and every section of terrain. And then fit all sections
of terrain by scale into their respective positions. Scale is imperative to the whole.
But in order to fit all the sections by scale into the whole, “The Big Picture” has
to be clearly understood in the mapmakers mind; then all the pieces will fit!When beginners start to read The Scriptures they don’t understand what
“God” wants them to, because of what the ‘systems of religion’ taught them.
If they have been baptized with The “HolySpirit” and are open to His teachings,
then they will be like a skilled mapmaker understanding the terrain of God’s Word!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Kerwin,This is the post.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 31 2011,08:55) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 29 2011,00:08) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 27 2011,20:00) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2011,04:44) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 27 2011,01:26) ED j……….Kerwins last statement is correct brother. Jesus or us did not preexist our berths on this earth, we were all in the “WILL” and “PLAN” of GOD but came into “BEING” at our appointed times. IMO peace and love………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Five Common Fallacies, Don't Be Fooled By Them
1) Believing what you currently think the truth is, actually is “The Truth” ?
2) Making up scenarios to illustrate this believed truth, is proof that it is true ? ?
3) Repeating ‘it’ over and over helps to substantiate, to others, the fact IT IS true ? ? ?
5) Believing that if you get others to agree with you, is FURTHER proof that ‘it’ is correct ? ? ? ?
4) Believing counter arguments are all ‘fake’, while your own scenarios are rock solid PROOF ? ? ? ? ?THE (real) TRUTH
By Ed J.
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
(A) What's that supposed to demonstrate Ed? (B) You just described all communication between men.(C) Even YOU use the same tools, (D) and you are certainly convinced you are correct in understanding.
Hi Paladin,Good to here from you again!
A) Demonstrate? …It's an illustration of the fallacies that what people believe constitutes proof of their truth to others!
B) Where is the proof of this assertion? Are you going to just make blanket statements, or can you actually offer PROOF?C) I use many tools, including Scriptural backing!
D) I have studied the bible intensively for over 40 years.Most people understand The Bible with the understanding of a man. (Isaiah 55:7-11)
“The Bible” is best understood in much the same way “Optics” are understood.
What I mean is: “The Bible” must be understood as “a whole”, Gen. to Rev.But how is this done? Let us use “Optics” as a comparative example; OK?
The closer you look at something, the less that can be seen in the field of view.
And likewise, the focus of detail is lost with the greater field of view. I hope you are
getting all this? This is quite a conundrum, as you can only read one Bible verse at a time.Consider what it would take to make a map without the advent of aerial photography?
First you must understand each and every section of terrain. And then fit all sections
of terrain by scale into their respective positions. Scale is imperative to the whole.
But in order to fit all the sections by scale into the whole, “The Big Picture” has
to be clearly understood in the mapmakers mind; then all the pieces will fit!When beginners start to read The Scriptures they don’t understand what
“God” wants them to, because of what the ‘systems of religion’ taught them.
If they have been baptized with The “HolySpirit” and are open to His teachings,
then they will be like a skilled mapmaker understanding the terrain of God’s Word!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Kerwin,This is the post.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.Paldin and you are having a communicatrions breakdown. Neither of you are clearly making your ideas known to the other or understanding the others points.
Your answer to Gene infers that I am guity of all the falacies you mention and yet you failed to provide and evidence to support that judgement.
Paladin made the point that one could do the same to you and it would also fail to actually prove anything. It is in short meaningless to make such a groundless accusation.
Your last point seems to be that it cannot be applied to you because you have the Spirit of God.
Is this summary of my understanding of your communications correct? If not could you please summarise your own? Thank you!
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2011,15:27) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 31 2011,08:55) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 29 2011,00:08) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 27 2011,20:00) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2011,04:44) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 27 2011,01:26) ED j……….Kerwins last statement is correct brother. Jesus or us did not preexist our berths on this earth, we were all in the “WILL” and “PLAN” of GOD but came into “BEING” at our appointed times. IMO peace and love………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Five Common Fallacies, Don't Be Fooled By Them
1) Believing what you currently think the truth is, actually is “The Truth” ?
2) Making up scenarios to illustrate this believed truth, is proof that it is true ? ?
3) Repeating ‘it’ over and over helps to substantiate, to others, the fact IT IS true ? ? ?
5) Believing that if you get others to agree with you, is FURTHER proof that ‘it’ is correct ? ? ? ?
4) Believing counter arguments are all ‘fake’, while your own scenarios are rock solid PROOF ? ? ? ? ?THE (real) TRUTH
By Ed J.
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
(A) What's that supposed to demonstrate Ed? (B) You just described all communication between men.(C) Even YOU use the same tools, (D) and you are certainly convinced you are correct in understanding.
Hi Paladin,Good to here from you again!
A) Demonstrate? …It's an illustration of the fallacies that what people believe constitutes proof of their truth to others!
B) Where is the proof of this assertion? Are you going to just make blanket statements, or can you actually offer PROOF?C) I use many tools, including Scriptural backing!
D) I have studied the bible intensively for over 40 years.Most people understand The Bible with the understanding of a man. (Isaiah 55:7-11)
“The Bible” is best understood in much the same way “Optics” are understood.
What I mean is: “The Bible” must be understood as “a whole”, Gen. to Rev.But how is this done? Let us use “Optics” as a comparative example; OK?
The closer you look at something, the less that can be seen in the field of view.
And likewise, the focus of detail is lost with the greater field of view. I hope you are
getting all this? This is quite a conundrum, as you can only read one Bible verse at a time.Consider what it would take to make a map without the advent of aerial photography?
First you must understand each and every section of terrain. And then fit all sections
of terrain by scale into their respective positions. Scale is imperative to the whole.
But in order to fit all the sections by scale into the whole, “The Big Picture” has
to be clearly understood in the mapmakers mind; then all the pieces will fit!When beginners start to read The Scriptures they don’t understand what
“God” wants them to, because of what the ‘systems of religion’ taught them.
If they have been baptized with The “HolySpirit” and are open to His teachings,
then they will be like a skilled mapmaker understanding the terrain of God’s Word!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Kerwin,This is the post.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.Paldin and you are having a communicatrions breakdown. Neither of you are clearly making your ideas known to the other or understanding the others points.
Your answer to Gene infers that I am guity of all the falacies you mention and yet you failed to provide and evidence to support that judgement.
Paladin made the point that one could do the same to you and it would also fail to actually prove anything. It is in short meaningless to make such a groundless accusation.
Your last point seems to be that it cannot be applied to you because you have the Spirit of God.
Is this summary of my understanding of your communications correct? If not could you please summarise your own? Thank you!
Right exactly on point K.Nothing is “proved” when no “proof” is offered.
Asserting Allegations is not proof, and not even good evidence.
Then, to require proof of someone while not offering it one's self seems a little bit pretentious to me. THAT was precisely why I jumped into the conversation between two others.
Notice, I do not accuse anyone of being “pretentious,” I only point out that it seems that way to me. No assertion, no allegation, no proof.
And generic assertions fail to clear up anything whatsoever.
There are very few things anyone can claim about
“Everybody…” does “so…..and…thus” without at least interviewing an exemplary number of “everybodys.”I think you have some understanding.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2011,09:15) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 30 2011,11:22) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 30 2011,16:04) Ed J. My “theory” is a literal interpretation and the reasonable conclusions I that are drawn from it. You have not offered any reason why Luke 1:31 and 36 should not me taken literally. I would like to hear it.
As for Micah 5:2 Jesus' existence was known and planned by God long before it occurred and therefore he came forth from God.
Here is a scripture that testifies to that.
Quote Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Hi Kerwin,How would our birth preclude preexistence?
Could not both Ephesians 1:4 as well as 2Tm.1:9 be
instead indicating that we, as well as Christ, all preexisted?
Ed J.At this time I cannot with certainty eliminate the possibility that the human soul preexists the time God breaths it into the human body. That was and is not my point nor do I currently believe the answer to that question is important.
Hi Kerwin,The answer to that question “IS” important “IF” you are arguing against preexistence; right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2011,15:27) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 31 2011,08:55) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 29 2011,00:08) Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 27 2011,20:00) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2011,04:44) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 27 2011,01:26) ED j……….Kerwins last statement is correct brother. Jesus or us did not preexist our berths on this earth, we were all in the “WILL” and “PLAN” of GOD but came into “BEING” at our appointed times. IMO peace and love………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Five Common Fallacies, Don't Be Fooled By Them
1) Believing what you currently think the truth is, actually is “The Truth” ?
2) Making up scenarios to illustrate this believed truth, is proof that it is true ? ?
3) Repeating ‘it’ over and over helps to substantiate, to others, the fact IT IS true ? ? ?
5) Believing that if you get others to agree with you, is FURTHER proof that ‘it’ is correct ? ? ? ?
4) Believing counter arguments are all ‘fake’, while your own scenarios are rock solid PROOF ? ? ? ? ?THE (real) TRUTH
By Ed J.
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
(A) What's that supposed to demonstrate Ed? (B) You just described all communication between men.(C) Even YOU use the same tools, (D) and you are certainly convinced you are correct in understanding.
Hi Paladin,Good to here from you again!
A) Demonstrate? …It's an illustration of the fallacies that what people believe constitutes proof of their truth to others!
B) Where is the proof of this assertion? Are you going to just make blanket statements, or can you actually offer PROOF?C) I use many tools, including Scriptural backing!
D) I have studied the bible intensively for over 40 years.Most people understand The Bible with the understanding of a man. (Isaiah 55:7-11)
“The Bible” is best understood in much the same way “Optics” are understood.
What I mean is: “The Bible” must be understood as “a whole”, Gen. to Rev.But how is this done? Let us use “Optics” as a comparative example; OK?
The closer you look at something, the less that can be seen in the field of view.
And likewise, the focus of detail is lost with the greater field of view. I hope you are
getting all this? This is quite a conundrum, as you can only read one Bible verse at a time.Consider what it would take to make a map without the advent of aerial photography?
First you must understand each and every section of terrain. And then fit all sections
of terrain by scale into their respective positions. Scale is imperative to the whole.
But in order to fit all the sections by scale into the whole, “The Big Picture” has
to be clearly understood in the mapmakers mind; then all the pieces will fit!When beginners start to read The Scriptures they don’t understand what
“God” wants them to, because of what the ‘systems of religion’ taught them.
If they have been baptized with The “HolySpirit” and are open to His teachings,
then they will be like a skilled mapmaker understanding the terrain of God’s Word!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Kerwin,This is the post.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.Paldin and you are having a communicatrions breakdown. Neither of you are clearly making your ideas known to the other or understanding the others points.
Your answer to Gene infers that I am guity of all the falacies you mention and yet you failed to provide and evidence to support that judgement.
Paladin made the point that one could do the same to you and it would also fail to actually prove anything. It is in short meaningless to make such a groundless accusation.
Your last point seems to be that it cannot be applied to you because you have the Spirit of God.
Is this summary of my understanding of your communications correct? If not could you please summarise your own? Thank you!
Hi Kerwin,My point is more clearly summarized by saying that if one is open to God's teachings being born again,
and if they have studied the bible from cover to cover, they will begin to be able to understand the bible as a whole.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgPaladin,
I consider these conversations to be public conversation where anyone can join as they see fit.
PM's are for private conversations.
Ed J.,
One must be led by God in order to understand scriptures correctly. You can be led by God before being born again as it is he that leads you to be born again. Scriptures are useful for teaching and training in righteousness.
In all that I agree with you.
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 01 2011,00:46) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2011,09:15) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 30 2011,11:22) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 30 2011,16:04) Ed J. My “theory” is a literal interpretation and the reasonable conclusions I that are drawn from it. You have not offered any reason why Luke 1:31 and 36 should not me taken literally. I would like to hear it.
As for Micah 5:2 Jesus' existence was known and planned by God long before it occurred and therefore he came forth from God.
Here is a scripture that testifies to that.
Quote Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Hi Kerwin,How would our birth preclude preexistence?
Could not both Ephesians 1:4 as well as 2Tm.1:9 be
instead indicating that we, as well as Christ, all preexisted?
Ed J.At this time I cannot with certainty eliminate the possibility that the human soul preexists the time God breaths it into the human body. That was and is not my point nor do I currently believe the answer to that question is important.
Hi Kerwin,The answer to that question “IS” important “IF” you are arguing against preexistence; right?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.,My argument against preexistence is an argument against a greater than human preexistent being.
If one believes Jesus is a human being just like other human beings except that his faith was and is complete then I believe that sastifies a need for a believers faith to grow more mature.
Hi Kerwin,
Thanks for expressing your point of view, as well as
considering the evidence that is used to form mine.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Sep. 01 2011,11:06) Hi Kerwin, Thanks for expressing your point of view, as well as
considering the evidence that is used to form mine.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J.I only do as I am instructed and seek understanding. Praise God who does the instruction.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2011,15:12) Ed J., One must be led by God in order to understand scriptures correctly. You can be led by God before being born again as it is he that leads you to be born again. Scriptures are useful for teaching and training in righteousness.
In all that I agree with you.
Kerwin…………….Well said brother.peace and love………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 02 2011,01:36) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2011,15:12) Ed J., One must be led by God in order to understand scriptures correctly. You can be led by God before being born again as it is he that leads you to be born again. Scriptures are useful for teaching and training in righteousness.
In all that I agree with you.
Kerwin…………….Well said brother.peace and love………………………….gene
Hi Kerwin and Gene,I agree with you both in this.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2011,22:20) If one believes Jesus is a human being just like other human beings except that his faith was and is complete then I believe that sastifies a need for a believers faith to grow more mature.
So you are with Gene then, eh Kerwin? Just like Gene, you are willing to totally ignore certain scriptures and utterly twist other ones to satisfy your selfish WISH? That is very telling.I had asked you before what your driving force was for wanting Jesus to be nothing more than human, but I don't recall reading your answer. The thing is, I knew it had to be something like this. Because for any person to do what the Trinitarians and non-preexisters do to the scriptures, there has to be a PERSONAL driving force behind it.
I'm lacking that PERSONAL driving force, which explains why what I teach is also what the scriptures teach. I have no PERSONAL wish for Jesus to be God Almighty, and therefore I'm able to clearly see from the outside looking in all the scriptures those guys ridiculously twist to make it seem like Jesus is God Almighty.
Likewise, I have no PERSONAL wish for Jesus to have been nothing more than just a human being – just so I can feel all better about myself accomplishing something – and therefore I am able to clearly see from the outside looking in all the scriptures you guys ridiculously twist to make it seem like Jesus was nothing more than a human being.
Similarly, I have no PERSONAL wish for God to be nothing but Love, and so I don't have to pretend the OT doesn't exist, like Tim Kraft does, just so he doesn't have to have a PERSONAL God who carries out extreme vengeance and renders judgment justly.
I put all my PERSONAL wishes aside when I'm reading the scriptures. And what I end up with is exactly what the scriptures teach, whether I like that particular teaching or not.
I suggest you guys do the same. What does it profit you in the end to let your selfish wish for Jesus to have been “exactly like you”, when that is not the Lord who is taught in the scriptures?
In John 8:24, Jesus tells us that if we don't believe he's EXACTLY who he said he was, we would die in our sins. This is the same Jesus who taught about coming down from heaven, and having glory alongside his God before the world was created.
And finally, do you guys realize that even as a human, Jesus had God Almighty as his LITERAL Father? Do any of YOU have that going for ya? If not, then give up the charade that you are somehow more empowered if Jesus was nothing but a man, and start believing what the scriptures actually teach.
It's way easier this way. I mean, look at me. You don't see me claiming oddball things like, “Jesus is the God that he is the Son of”, or “Jesus had glory as a thought in God's head before the creation of the world”.
peace,
mikeMike,
Quote I had asked you before what your driving force was for wanting Jesus to be nothing more than human, but I don't recall reading your answer. My answer is to obey the instruction Jesus gave to us in Matthew 6:33. In order to find God’s righteousness and his kingdom I must pursue it by faith from first to last. That pursuit begins by me believing the promise of being filled with the righteousness and holiness that is like God’s. It continues by believing that Jesus Anointed was a pioneer, Hebrews 12:2, of my search going before me and marking out the trail with his teachings that me and others may follow. Below are some scriptures that mark the trail I am to tread.
An instruction:
Quote Matthew 6:33
King James Version (KJV)33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
A promise:
Quote Matthew 5:6
King James Version (KJV)6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
An example:
Quote Galatians 3:14
King James Version (KJV)14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The result:
Quote Galatians 5:16
King James Version (KJV)16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
A description:
Quote Romans 1:17 King James Version (KJV)
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
A warning:
Quote Romans 9:32
King James Version (KJV)32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
As Jesus is the pioneer he went before me to show that it is possible for a human beimng to be tempted and yet not give into it. He also demonstrated that doing so is accomplished by faith from first to last.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2011,12:13) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2011,22:20) If one believes Jesus is a human being just like other human beings except that his faith was and is complete then I believe that sastifies a need for a believers faith to grow more mature.
So you are with Gene then, eh Kerwin? Just like Gene, you are willing to totally ignore certain scriptures and utterly twist other ones to satisfy your selfish WISH? That is very telling.I had asked you before what your driving force was for wanting Jesus to be nothing more than human, but I don't recall reading your answer. The thing is, I knew it had to be something like this. Because for any person to do what the Trinitarians and non-preexisters do to the scriptures, there has to be a PERSONAL driving force behind it.
I'm lacking that PERSONAL driving force, which explains why what I teach is also what the scriptures teach. I have no PERSONAL wish for Jesus to be God Almighty, and therefore I'm able to clearly see from the outside looking in all the scriptures those guys ridiculously twist to make it seem like Jesus is God Almighty.
Likewise, I have no PERSONAL wish for Jesus to have been nothing more than just a human being – just so I can feel all better about myself accomplishing something – and therefore I am able to clearly see from the outside looking in all the scriptures you guys ridiculously twist to make it seem like Jesus was nothing more than a human being.
Similarly, I have no PERSONAL wish for God to be nothing but Love, and so I don't have to pretend the OT doesn't exist, like Tim Kraft does, just so he doesn't have to have a PERSONAL God who carries out extreme vengeance and renders judgment justly.
I put all my PERSONAL wishes aside when I'm reading the scriptures. And what I end up with is exactly what the scriptures teach, whether I like that particular teaching or not.
I suggest you guys do the same. What does it profit you in the end to let your selfish wish for Jesus to have been “exactly like you”, when that is not the Lord who is taught in the scriptures?
In John 8:24, Jesus tells us that if we don't believe he's EXACTLY who he said he was, we would die in our sins. This is the same Jesus who taught about coming down from heaven, and having glory alongside his God before the world was created.
And finally, do you guys realize that even as a human, Jesus had God Almighty as his LITERAL Father? Do any of YOU have that going for ya? If not, then give up the charade that you are somehow more empowered if Jesus was nothing but a man, and start believing what the scriptures actually teach.
It's way easier this way. I mean, look at me. You don't see me claiming oddball things like, “Jesus is the God that he is the Son of”, or “Jesus had glory as a thought in God's head before the creation of the world”.
peace,
mike
Mike………….your 20 or so self references only shows where you heart really is, it is focused on yourself it appears. If anyone here twists scriptures to fit there Dogmas it is you PREEXISTENCES and your brothers the TRINITARIANS. Both of you are SEPARATIST and spend all you time and energy trying to make Jesus (NON HUMAN) instead of understanding that GOD was not Perfecting Angels or other GODS, but Human Beings , and rather you like it or not Jesus (WAS) and (IS) a 100% human Being from his first existence at berth on this earth to His death and resurrection to his present state, and as Kerwin and Others brought out , He was a Pioneer , by being the First of the HUMAN RACE to Obtain the Planed WILL of GOD for (ALL) Mankind.Mike you should not chide the TRINITARIANS they believe Just like you do, in fact their teachings is where you originally got your SEPARATIST doctrine form. So i would not put them down to much if i were you. They as well as you believe Jesus ” PREEXISTED”, so don't be so hard on your fellow Trinitarian SEPARATIST IN FACT I GIVE THEM MORE CREDIT THEN YOU because they at least see GOD”S presents in Jesus. Something you don't seem to be able to see.
Fact is Mike you have no idea what you are saying and are only serving here to prevent growth and distort the truth of GOD through a puffed up ego that only serves yourself, and your sarcastic responses prove it. IMO
peace and love…………………………….gene
Gene,
Quote Mike you should not chide the TRINITARIANS they believe Just like you do, in fact their teachings is where you originally got your SEPARATIST doctrine form I am of the oppinion that it was the other way as the book of Hebrews addresses a false doctrine that taught that Jesus Anointed is an angel with these words among others.
Quote Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV)
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
and
Quote Hebrews 2 King James Version (KJV)
5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
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