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Mike…………All things were and are begotten of GOD Jesus was uniquely begotten of Him as a SON from the Human RACE The first born into the kingdom of God from mankind This had nothing to do with any “PREEXISTENT” existence at all. Jesus was unique in that he was the First to be begotten from mankind of many IMO
peace and love………………………………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2011,20:41) But Gene, How is it that the Word AND the man Jesus BOTH had the glory of God's ONLY begotten Son?
Gene,Though I have already answered this question of Mike's I would also like to hear your answer.
Irene,
Quote One more thing Kerwin, anytime you accuse a Brethren you accuse yourself… and God see's it….be assured of that my friend.,.. now you walking on Gene's road… I know not what words which I wrote that you perceived as an accusation. Perhaps it was my words about having a spirit viewpoint and not a flesh one. Scripture instructs us to do just that so I cannot see how me doing the same is an accusation.
To continue about the spirit viewpoint let us consider that Nicodemus, brethren of Jesus voiced his understanding from a flesh point of view with these words:
Quote John 3
King James Version (KJV)4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Had Nicodemus instead been using the spirit point of view then he would have known Jesus was speaking of the spirit as if the whole person.
Quote Did I ever say that Jesus did not become flesh? I have not voiced a opinion otherwise in this conversation.
Quote No….Jesus did become flesh, the only begotten of the Father is no other being but Jesus…But thinking that John 1:14 and The Word of God is Gods Holy Spirit is the wrong Spirit……and not the only begotten of the Father, but Gods Holy Spirit…… This sounds like the body of our current conversation. Jest to make sure we have some common understandings I have some questions to ask before continuing. Feel free to give essay answers if you feel it is necessary.
1) Is the Word incarnated in God?
2) Is the Word incarnated in the Spirit?
3) Was the Spirit with God in the beginning?
4) Does the Spirit dwell in Jesus?kerwin
Quote Had Nicodemus instead been using the spirit point of view then he would have known Jesus was speaking of the spirit as if the whole person. you do not see it through the spirit ,the soul of man is the spirit and that is what has to submit to the will of God the flesh will follow it has no choice ,flesh count for nothing,right ?
your question 1 to 4 are wrong and not bring clarity but only confusion,they come from religion
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 27 2011,15:09) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 26 2011,14:42) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 26 2011,16:12)
I myself originally believed that Jesus preexisted his conception until it was revealed to me that one cannot exist before they are conceived (exist).
Hi Kerwin,I was very impressed with this post (now cut), that is until I got to the last line (in brown).
Ed J.If you would explain why that line does not impress you then perhaps we can discuss it. Until then I have no idea why it does.
Hi Kerwin,Kerwin, non-Scriptural ideas do not impress me.
How was this idea revealed to you? And what
Scriptural backing do you have to support it?
The ball's in your court, you brought this up.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2011,15:40) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2011,20:45) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2011,13:13) edj Quote 1) The Word maketh the Son of God. (Heb.7:28)
2) Jesus speaks the Father's word. (John 14:24)
3) Belief in The Word saves you. (Luke 18:12)
4) Born again by The Word of God. (1Peter 4:23)
5) Believers speak The Word of God. (Acts 4:31)
6) The Word of God makes you clean. (John 15:3)
7) The seed is The Word of God. (Luke 11:18)
8) The Word grew and multiplied. (Acts 12:24)
9) The Word increased in number. (Acts 6:7)
10) The Word of God prevailed. (Acts 19:20)11) What? came The Word of God out from you?
or came it unto you only? (1 Cor 14:36)all those scriptures you quote are NOT the ” THE WORD OF GOD” from JOHN 1 ;1 OR REV;19-
the scriptures are the word of God and by obey them you can do all the things 1-11
now the seed does not mean the word of God of it self but the seed is the gospel or good news that people hears and that go's to the heart or the stones ,where it can either grow or die ,
also the word of God is the truth ,and so will always prevails
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Does eternal life die? Jesus' died, but “The Word” NEVER DID. Read carefully what John says…
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes,
which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of “The Word” of life; (For the life
was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life,
which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard
declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with
the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (1John 1:1-3) Compare Rev.19:11-21 to Isaiah 63:2-10.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjread this I have ad some for understanding ;
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(when man was created), and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.(of creation )
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light(the words of the grace of God ,the reconciliation from God to men;this meant live to whoever accepted ) of men.Jn 1:9 The true light(the truth from God and to prove he was who he said he was, he fulfilled the law, with all what was said abode what the Christ should do ,true to the letter) that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Jn 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
Jn 6:57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
Jn 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”Quote Does eternal life die? THE WORD OF GOD ,CAME INTO THE WORLD TO GIVE HIS FLESH BODY AS A PERFECT OFFERING IN RANSOM FOR MEN SINS,
why would his soul die ? and stay dead ? our souls do not die until Gods judgment ,and Christ by obeying his father to the fullest and to dead ,was judge totally righteous and so was the first one among many brothers (144k) to be resurrected,and later (40days)so return to his father and took his name back in heaven ,”THE WORD OF GOD”
THIS WITH MORE GLORY THAN BEFORE ,God had place him now to clean up the heaven and will soon clean up the earth and dead will be no more ,and all will be of God and from God.
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Is your contention that eternal live (according to Pierre) does die?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Paladin @ Aug. 27 2011,20:00) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 27 2011,04:44) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 27 2011,01:26) ED j……….Kerwins last statement is correct brother. Jesus or us did not preexist our berths on this earth, we were all in the “WILL” and “PLAN” of GOD but came into “BEING” at our appointed times. IMO peace and love………………………………gene
Hi Gene,Five Common Fallacies, Don't Be Fooled By Them
1) Believing what you currently think the truth is, actually is “The Truth” ?
2) Making up scenarios to illustrate this believed truth, is proof that it is true ? ?
3) Repeating ‘it’ over and over helps to substantiate, to others, the fact IT IS true ? ? ?
5) Believing that if you get others to agree with you, is FURTHER proof that ‘it’ is correct ? ? ? ?
4) Believing counter arguments are all ‘fake’, while your own scenarios are rock solid PROOF ? ? ? ? ?THE (real) TRUTH
By Ed J.
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
(A) What's that supposed to demonstrate Ed? (B) You just described all communication between men.(C) Even YOU use the same tools, (D) and you are certainly convinced you are correct in understanding.
Hi Paladin,Good to here from you again!
A) Demonstrate? …It's an illustration of the fallacies that what people believe constitutes proof of their truth to others!
B) Where is the proof of this assertion? Are you going to just make blanket statements, or can you actually offer PROOF?C) I use many tools, including Scriptural backing!
D) I have studied the bible intensively for over 40 years.Most people understand The Bible with the understanding of a man. (Isaiah 55:7-11)
“The Bible” is best understood in much the same way “Optics” are understood.
What I mean is: “The Bible” must be understood as “a whole”, Gen. to Rev.But how is this done? Let us use “Optics” as a comparative example; OK?
The closer you look at something, the less that can be seen in the field of view.
And likewise, the focus of detail is lost with the greater field of view. I hope you are
getting all this? This is quite a conundrum, as you can only read one Bible verse at a time.Consider what it would take to make a map without the advent of aerial photography?
First you must understand each and every section of terrain. And then fit all sections
of terrain by scale into their respective positions. Scale is imperative to the whole.
But in order to fit all the sections by scale into the whole, “The Big Picture” has
to be clearly understood in the mapmakers mind; then all the pieces will fit!When beginners start to read The Scriptures they don’t understand what
“God” wants them to, because of what the ‘systems of religion’ taught them.
If they have been baptized with The “HolySpirit” and are open to His teachings,
then they will be like a skilled mapmaker understanding the terrain of God’s Word!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 28 2011,01:01) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 26 2011,21:15) Hi Mike, So Jesus was the only begotten of God? <– Yes
Hi Ed,(1)And as the only begotten of God, it is fitting that Jesus had the glory as of the only begotten of God, right?
(2)The Word who was made flesh also had the glory as of the only begotten of God, right? (3)So if Jesus has the glory of God's ONLY begotten Son, (4)and the Word has the glory of God's ONLY begotten Son, (5)then what does that tell you?
(6)At that time, God only had ONE “only begotten Son”. (7)So there would only be ONE in existence that would have the glory of God's only begotten Son.
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 26 2011,21:15) Jesus therefore had the glory of God as of the only begotten of the Father. <– Yes
(8)God shares His own glory with no one. (9)Jesus can come IN the Father's glory, (10)or act IN the Father's glory and great Name, (11)but he doesn't POSSESS that glory (12)or Name himself.peace,
mike
Hi Mike,1) God's glory(The Word) was “IN” Jesus.
2) Jesus had the glory of “The Word”.
3) Jesus had the glory of God in him, as of the only begotten of the Father.
4) The Word(HolySpirit) IS the glory of God.
5) Your words tell me NOTHING, regarding this.6) Yes
7) Are you forgetting that it's the Father's glory? (See your point # 8)8) God's glory is seen through others.
9) Yes
10) Yes
11) Prove this assertion. (1Thess.5:21)
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1Thess.5:21)
12) God's name is יה (YÄ): Jesus has God's Name contained within his name יהשוע (YÄ-shü-ă), meaning YÄ is salvation.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2011,10:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2011,20:41) But Gene, How is it that the Word AND the man Jesus BOTH had the glory of God's ONLY begotten Son?
Gene,Though I have already answered this question of Mike's I would also like to hear your answer.
Kerwin……….. God and his WORD are both Glorious, The Logos was (IN) Jesus and therefor so was the glory of GOD. But God gives (HIS) Glory to (NO) Man. Jesus' glory was foreordained before he ever existed , Just as the Glory of Cyrus existed before he ever did. Even Man has a glory afforded him from the very beginning of his creation. “what is man that so kind to him you should be , for you have made him a little lower then the angels for the tasting of death, but has (CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR)”.Another thing Kerwin Jesus also has the Glory of being the First from human kind to be perfected and raised from the dead and that by it self is a glory afforded him. But man will also recieve the glory promised man by God at the resurrection to eternal life, which will be given them at the return of Jesus, all Saints will recieve Glory and Honor, from GOD. There is a glory of GOD and a Glory of Man, but they are (NOT) the same Glory, each has a glory of its own. IMO
peace and love…………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2011,01:08) Hi Edwardo,
Why would God's glory be the glory of an only begotten OF God?
Hi Mikeareno,Did we not just agree that the “Glory” that was “IN” Jesus, was God's glory?
Your question is not worded correctly, see my question (which is emboldened).And we beheld his(The Father's) glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)
Why would God's glory be “IN” his only begotten? …because what Jesus is – is made up of what God is.
DON'T PULL MY ANSWER AWAY FROM MY QUESTION AND PUT IT TO YOUR INCORRECTLY WORDED QUESTION.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 28 2011,08:19) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 28 2011,10:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 27 2011,20:41) But Gene, How is it that the Word AND the man Jesus BOTH had the glory of God's ONLY begotten Son?
Gene,Though I have already answered this question of Mike's I would also like to hear your answer.
Kerwin……….. God and his WORD are both Glorious, The Logos was (IN) Jesus and therefor so was the glory of GOD.
That doesn't answer my question, Gene. Who had the glory, not of God Himself, but of the only begotten OF God?Was it not both Jesus AND the Word who had the glory of God's only begotten? Why would TWO things have the glory of God's ONLY begotten? The word ONLY implies ONE thing, right?
Hmmmm…………perhaps those TWO things were in fact the SAME thing?
peace,
mikeQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 28 2011,08:51) Hi Mikeareno, Did we not just agree that the “Glory” that was “IN” Jesus, was God's glory?
No, actually we agreed that God shares His glory with no one. So if it was God's glory that was “IN” Jesus, then Jesus would have had the glory of God, not the glory of “the only begotten OF God”.Try again, Edinski.
mike
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 29 2011,02:17) Hey Eddy what is the GLORY of God and Christ ?? is it the same for both
Pierre
Hi Pierre,It's God's “glory”(77), which was IN “Christ”(77).
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2011,02:25) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 28 2011,08:51) Hi Mikeareno, Did we not just agree that the “Glory” that was “IN” Jesus, was God's glory?
No, actually we agreed that God shares His glory with no one. So if it was God's glory that was “IN” Jesus, then Jesus would have had the glory of God, not the glory of “the only begotten OF God”.Try again, Edinski.
mike
Hi Mike,And we beheld his (The Father's) glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father. (John 1:14)
When God's HolySpirit is “IN” us, does that mean it's something that we then possess?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 28 2011,09:35) Hi Mike, And we beheld his
(The Father's)(the Word's) glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father. (John 1:14)
Hi Ed,Did the Word possess the glory as of THE FATHER? Or does the scripture say the Word possessed the glory as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER?
P.S. I fixed your quote for you.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2011,03:11) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 28 2011,09:35) Hi Mike, And we beheld his
(The Father's)(the Word's) glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father. (John 1:14)
Hi Ed,(1)Did the Word possess the glory as of THE FATHER? (2)Or does the scripture say the Word possessed the glory as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER?
P.S. I fixed your quote for you.
mike
Hi Mike,(P.S.) Then you agree with me that “The Word” was Jesus' father? (See Hebrews 7:28)
1) The Word(HolySpirit) is the Glory of the Father.
2) No, “The Word” Fathered Jesus. (See Hebrews 7:28)Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
the word(TheSeed “IS” HolySpirit) of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 28 2011,10:59) No, “The Word” Fathered Jesus.
Hi Ed,If the Word fathered Jesus, and the Word is who had the glory of the only begotten from the Father, then Jesus would have had the glory of a GRANDCHILD of the Father.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Ed, it seems that you think the bolded word “his” above refers to the Father. But it is clear from the context that this speaks of the Word's glory. And it is clear that the Word is not the Father Himself when you factor in the impossibility of the Father having the glory of HIS OWN only begotten. The Father has the glory of THE FATHER. The Father does NOT have the glory of an only begotten OF the Father.
peace,
mike
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