Examination of the incarnation doctrine.

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 02 2011,09:43)

Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 02 2011,08:56)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 02 2011,02:12)

Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 02 2011,00:37)

Quote (Ed J @ July 25 2011,05:39)

Does this verse mean that John the Baptist was the last of the old or the first of the new?

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John (the Baptist):
since that time the kingdom of God is preached,
and every man presseth into it.

O.K. I get it, you want to know when the kingdom of God began…

“In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai.
2 For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.
3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.”[Exo 19:1-8]

So, is there another kingdom of God referenced anywhere in scripture?

Hi Paladin,

Then you would agree with me the the Apostles were the fulfillment of the prophecy you cite; right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Wrong.

(A)The apostles were one small part of the fulfillment of the prophecy dealing with the kingdom of God.

They are the spiritual equivalent of the twelve tribes of Israel, but remember, Levi was not counted and neither was Joseph, as Ephraim and mannessah took their places on the list of
“twelve;” i.e., Ephraim and Mannessah inherited in leiu of Levi and Joseph.

The prophecy to Abraham was twopart, by two-fold.

The first part first fold consisted of the land/national promises made to Israel, which promise was fulfilled in the inheritance of Israel in the land. The first part second fold was the spiritual promise made to Abraham abut his seed being the promised Messiah. It was based upon the Hebrew scriptures.

The second part first fold consisted of the rejection of Israel's natural children, and the acceptance of the adoption of those children of Abraham through faith; the second part, second fold was fulfilled when the Gentiles accepted the promises to Abraham, by faith in Jesus Christ, the promised seed of Abraham. Those in Christ, in Abraham, received the promise of the covenant, which was based upon the Greek Septuagint scriptures.

It covers all the kingdom of God, historically, theologically, and factually. It is one God, one kingdom, one people, and one theocracy. And it is open to all who would take part, if they will place their faith in Christ, in Abraham, and in God.

The old covenant did not cease when John was born. It did not cease whn Jesus was born. It ceased when the destruction of Jerusalem took place, severing any possibility of the Jews returning to the temple to offer the worship in accord with the old covenant tenants of the laws of Moses.

The forty years between the death of Jesus, and the destruction of the temple in 70 a.d., was equivalent to the forty years of wilderness wanderings the Jews endured upon leaving Egyptian captivity and slavery. The Jews were still in “slavery to Moses” during that forty years between covenants.

There is no significance to anyone being identified as “born first into the kingdom of God, because as soon as God told Joshua, and Joshua told the people, and the people accepted the terms of covenant, and Joshua reported their agreement to God, whoever was nextborn among all the children of Israel, from Mount Sinaia on, was the first one born into the kingdom of God.

(B)Only Christian scholars could come up with making a contest between John and Jesus ove rwho was firstborn into the kingdom of God, but that debate began hundreds of years ago, right along with all the other errors of scholarship.

Hi Paladin,

A) So you agree in a small part kinda way then. Good!

B) So you don't believe Jesus was firstborn in the kingdom of God?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

He was made firstborn, just as Israel, Ephraim, and david, before him.

It was never considered a position of chronology, but one of prestige.

August 2, 2011 at 9:44 am#254778

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 02 2011,19:36)

Paladin; this is good ,but did you not forgot what happen to Abraham and Issac his son first born and at that time the only son he had ,this was the shadow of Christ ,no??
Pierre

What are you talking about?

Ishmael was Abraham's firstborn son, “And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael. 16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.” [Gen 16:15-16]

“Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? 18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.” [Gen 17:17-21]

“And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken. 2 For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. 3 And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac.
4 And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him. 5 And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.” [Gen 21:1-5]

Remember, God established covenant with Abraham and his seed? But the covenant was adjusted to pinpoint which seed of Abraham was to be in covenant with God: ” And God said… thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.”

God causes Abraham to realize the power of covenant, by removing Ishmael from the seed count consideration.
“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.”[Gen 22:1-2]

As a matter of fact, Isaac was not the only son Abraham loved: “And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! 19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”[Gen 17:18-21]

So Ishmael was Abraham's firstborn son, but was removed from the seed line of the covenant; and of Isaac's two sons' Esau and Jacob, his second son Jacob became God's firstborn, not Isaac's. “And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:” [Exo 4:22]

The story of the “firstborn” has always been a source of confusion for Christians, who take the position, “The old testament is done away, it is not for us, we are under the new.” Because they fail to attain a working knowledge of the old testament, they come up with all kinds of confusion and hold onto it as though it came from the mouth of God. I do not say this of you Pierre, for you did not originate this system, but I do say it of the Christian scholars who not only invent such a doctrine, but promote it even to this day.

August 2, 2011 at 2:08 pm#254792

Pastry

Participant

Paladin! Maybe you are confused because you don't understand that Jesus was the firstborn OF ALL CREATION….
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

If you are confused who The Word of God is, we have these Scriptures to make sure we understand who The Word of God is…

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

And then through Jesus God created all.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

No confusion with me or those who understand the preexisting of Jesus….

As far as the Old Covenant is concerned, we are not under that covenant any longer. We are under the new covenant.

Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you. .

And then Jesus gave us the great commandments…

Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Peace and Love Irene

August 2, 2011 at 6:01 pm#254795

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2011,13:22)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 01 2011,08:12)

Mike………Try to screw this one up also , because it also deals with what Jesus was saying about hating your fathers and mothers, and brothers, and sisters (LIFE) and our own (LIFE) (ALSO) The words “LIFE ALSO” ties the lives of the others into the content of the sentence. I will try to keep it simple and short becasue as i have said before, “you can't corner a snake in a brier patch”. Like Paladin and i have both said you don't to seem to be able to get the context right of what is written. Is your Pride and Arrogant preventing that MIKE?.

John 12:25……….> He that loves his life shall lose it; and he that Hates his life in this world shall keep it unto eternal life.

Is he here trying to say Soul or the “LIFE” another words the “WAY” the SOUL is LIVING. It amazes me how you can't even seem to understand these simple things. IMO

peace and lvoe…………………………….gene

I'm sorry Gene. I didn't realize that since Jesus spoke about one's “life” in one scripture, then we have to add the word “life” to all of his other teachings.

Mike……….I knew you would change the it around to try to meet your lack of understanding. You simply can not admit the truth can you Mike. This scripture is exactly related to what Jesus Said by “if a man does not hate his father his mother brother sister and his life (ALSO), He can not be my disciple”. He was not saying to love less by comparison as you suppose he was. He really meant “HATE THEIR AND OUR “LIVES”, in this world. This had nothing to do with the word Soul as you suppose it did. Just admit it Mike you have no idea what you are talking about here. I do realize that would be a giant hurdle for you to jump over, but i think it would do you good. IMO

peace and love………………………….gene

August 2, 2011 at 7:17 pm#254802

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 03 2011,03:44)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 02 2011,19:36)

Paladin; this is good ,but did you not forgot what happen to Abraham and Issac his son first born and at that time the only son he had ,this was the shadow of Christ ,no??
Pierre

What are you talking about?

Paladin

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,
Heb 11:18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”
Heb 11:19 Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.

Mt 21:33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey.
Mt 21:34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
Mt 21:35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.
Mt 21:36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way.
Mt 21:37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
Mt 21:38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’
Mt 21:39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Mt 21:40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
Mt 21:41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”
Mt 21:42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’ ?
Mt 21:43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
Mt 21:44 He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.”

I knew that Ismael was is first born ,but like Cain s offspring is ignored in scriptures and of little interest to God beside of fulfilling his will ,

so let stick with what is the way of the righteous,

Ge 17:11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.
Ge 17:12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring.
Ge 17:13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.
Ge 17:14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.

we also can see that God made a covenant with Abraham and it is after he was circumcised that his son Issac was
conceived

and so it is with the new covenant with Christ ,unless we are circumcised in the heart we will not be saved but rejected as per God s words; Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant

Pierre

August 3, 2011 at 1:59 am#254841

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 02 2011,12:01)

He was not saying to love less by comparison as you suppose he was.

Luke 14:26
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.”

Matthew 10:37
“Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me”

Gene, do you see the similarities? This might even be the same exact teaching of Jesus that was recorded slightly different by Luke than it was by Matthew.

And there is much scriptural evidence to support the fact that the word “miseo” can refer to a real hatred, but can also refer to “loving less”.

I don't really care what you believe about this, Gene. I doubt that either belief will cause anyone to go off into everlasting destruction.

Dude, you started off good. You clearly and concisely put your thoughts into print. I did the same, hoping to have a decent conversation with you for once. But out came the “Mike, see if you can screw this one up also”, and “I knew you would change the it around to try to meet your lack of understanding”, and “Just admit it Mike you have no idea what you are talking about here” talk from you.

These are apparently the posts that other people overlook when they scold ME about being too mean to YOU.

mike

August 3, 2011 at 9:03 am#254877

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 03 2011,01:08)

Paladin! Maybe you are confused because you don't understand that Jesus was the firstborn OF ALL CREATION….
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

If you are confused who The Word of God is, we have these Scriptures to make sure we understand who The Word of God is…

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

And then through Jesus God created all.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

No confusion with me or those who understand the preexisting of Jesus….

As far as the Old Covenant is concerned, we are not under that covenant any longer. We are under the new covenant.

Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you. .

And then Jesus gave us the great commandments…

Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Peace and Love Irene

I'm not “confused” Irene, YOU are stubborn. Please do not accuse me of confusion because of your stubbornness.

Jesus was not declared to be firstborn of all creation until he was raised from the dead, and became firstborn of the “new creation.”

It is that simple.

And when you get scriptures out of line, and read the back of the book to try to understand what words mean, instead of reading them in order, you become spiritually disorriented, and cannot possibly understand what is being said, no matter how many pople you have on your side who agree with you, because they are all doing the same thing.

My earnest prayer to God on your behalf and mine, is that he continue his patience with us both, and give us time to sort it all out.

August 3, 2011 at 1:57 pm#254880

Participant

Paladin……That is absolutely right, Jesus was the firstborn from the dead from mankind to be resurected and to enter into eternal life , you have accurately presented it brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene

August 3, 2011 at 2:22 pm#254881

Participant

Mike……..You still don't understand that you are running two different thing together two separate subjects. One the Person, the other the Persons Life they live. Your still trying to confuse what Jesus was saying about the person themselves, and about their (LIVES). I say it again “you can love a person and yet hate the lives they live. It just that simple and that clear, no need for you two cents worth of trying to distort the truth. I believe it just the way Jesus said it , ” he that hates not his father mother brother sister and his own (LIFE) (ALSO) can not be my disciple”.

As far as me saying the things i say to you it is because i get frustrated with you constantly trying to tare down what i and others here post and in fact i was originally posting it to ED j not you anyway.

peace and love………………………………………………….gene

August 3, 2011 at 3:18 pm#254883

Pastry

Participant

Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 03 2011,20:03)

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 03 2011,01:08)

Paladin! Maybe you are confused because you don't understand that Jesus was the firstborn OF ALL CREATION….
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

If you are confused who The Word of God is, we have these Scriptures to make sure we understand who The Word of God is…

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

And then through Jesus God created all.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

No confusion with me or those who understand the preexisting of Jesus….

As far as the Old Covenant is concerned, we are not under that covenant any longer. We are under the new covenant.

Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you. .

And then Jesus gave us the great commandments…

Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Peace and Love Irene

I'm not “confused” Irene, YOU are stubborn. Please do not accuse me of confusion because of your stubbornness.

Jesus was not declared to be firstborn of all creation until he was raised from the dead, and became firstborn of the “new creation.”

It is that simple.

My earnest prayer to God on your behalf and mine, is that he continue his patience with us both, and give us time to sort it all out.

Paladin! First of all you accused us of being confused…The firstborn of all creation, does not mean that He is the firstborn of the death. That is

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Jesus is both…. Scriptures say so…..I am stubborn? Stop accusing me… I am telling you the truth and you don't like it, so you take to accusing me and other Christians, so you say, not I……..

Quote

Those are your words, not mine….

August 3, 2011 at 5:27 pm#254887

Participant

Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 02 2011,20:44)

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Paladin……….This Scripture alone should tell anyone that the “SEED after Isaac WAS Jesus and the word after means Jesus did not yet exist at that time, or he would not have been “His Seed after him . It amazes me that they just can't get it brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

August 3, 2011 at 10:31 pm#254899

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 04 2011,02:18)

Paladin,Aug. wrote:

[quote=Pastry,Aug. 03 2011,01:08]Paladin! Maybe you are confused because you don't understand…..

If you are confused who The Word of God is…..

To which I responded…”I'm not “confused” Irene, YOU are stubborn. Please do not accuse me of confusion because of your stubbornness.”

Now you come at me with this…

Quote

Paladin! First of all you accused us of being confused…

I think it was YOU who accused first…

August 3, 2011 at 10:52 pm#254900

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 04 2011,11:27)

Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 02 2011,20:44)

19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

gene

you got it wrong,it is because Christ the son of God was already existing that God could plan all things way ahead of what ever should come to be ,

Paul explain that ,and Christ had thought that to his disciples
that he came from heaven and that he will go back and prepare a room for them,it is you who do not believe Christ when he say this,

LIKE YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY IN THIS MATTER ,YOU CANNOT OVER RUN GODS WORD OR WILL ,

come back to godly wisdom and believe scriptures do not change them.

Pierre

August 4, 2011 at 1:03 am#254911

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 03 2011,08:22)

Mike……..You still don't understand that you are running two different thing together two separate subjects. One the Person, the other the Persons Life they live.

Great Gene.

Now all you need is a scripture where Jesus actually says to hate your mother's LIFE.

Let me know if you ever find one, okay?

August 4, 2011 at 1:10 am#254913

Blocked

Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 03 2011,16:31)

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 04 2011,02:18)

Paladin,Aug. wrote:

[quote=Pastry,Aug. 03 2011,01:08]Paladin! Maybe you are confused because you don't understand…..

If you are confused who The Word of God is…..

To which I responded…”I'm not “confused” Irene, YOU are stubborn. Please do not accuse me of confusion because of your stubbornness.”

Now you come at me with this…

Quote

Paladin! First of all you accused us of being confused…

I think it was YOU who accused first…

Don't worry Irene. I see Paladin's words and understand them the same way you did.

The story of the “firstborn” has always been a source of confusion for Christians…………..

If I were you, Irene, I would get while the getting is still good. You will never “win” this. Paladin will post a million words over the next 3 years if he has to, just to avoid acknowledging that he WAS implying that “we” are “confused about firstborn”.

Quick………………..RUN! It's just not worth it!

peace,
mike

August 4, 2011 at 3:00 pm#254957

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2011,12:03)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 03 2011,08:22)

Mike……..You still don't understand that you are running two different thing together two separate subjects. One the Person, the other the Persons Life they live.

Great Gene.

Now all you need is a scripture where Jesus actually says to hate your mother's LIFE.

Let me know if you ever find one, okay?

Mike……This statement of yours only shows us you seem unable to understand the difference between a Person and a Persons “LIFE” they live. Again i say You can LOVE the PERSON but yet HATE his or HER LIFE they LIVE and your own life (ALSO). In fact the is exactly what those posted scriptures Prove. Face it Mike your Pride is the Problem here and nothing more. You are a hindered of the truth of GOD Mike rather you understand that or Not it is none the less the truth. IMO

Mike here is something you probably don't understand either, Paul said ” “ For i know that (IN) me (that is in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: becasue to (WILL) is present with Me; but to (perform) that which is good I find Not.

Now Mike tell us do you think Paul Hated (HIS) LIFE of not. And if that is not enough for you then consider these words of Paul,

“O” wretched MAN that I am , who can deliver me from the Body of DEATH………..>

Peace and love……………………………………..gene

August 4, 2011 at 7:01 pm#254974

Pastry

Participant

Quote (Paladin @ Aug. 02 2011,20:44)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 02 2011,19:36)

Paladin; this is good ,but did you not forgot what happen to Abraham and Issac his son first born and at that time the only son he had ,this was the shadow of Christ ,no??
Pierre

What are you talking about?

The last article to Pierre….Yes Mike I see, but this I want to show all….that's all…..

August 4, 2011 at 9:54 pm#254979

KangarooJack

Participant

Paladin wrote:

Quote

The story of the “firstborn” has always been a source of confusion for Christians, who take the position, “The old testament is done away, it is not for us, we are under the new.” Because they fail to attain a working knowledge of the old testament, they come up with all kinds of confusion and hold onto it as though it came from the mouth of God. I do not say this of you Pierre, for you did not originate this system, but I do say it of the Christian scholars who not only invent such a doctrine, but promote it even to this day.

I got it right Paladin. Mike and others here are confused on this.

August 5, 2011 at 4:34 am#255025

Blocked

Hi All,

Have you guys met our new member, Chihuahua Jack?

You know how those Chihuahuas are, right? You walk into their yard and they start barking. They are so small you could drop-kick them through a football goal. But they aren't really worth the bother.

If ever you just approach them head on, they go whimpering and running away. But as soon as you turn your back to do something else, there they are again, barking and nipping at your heels.

See, they never are willing to stand and defend their territory, or anything else. They just sneak up on people from behind, bark and nip a little, but then run away if confronted.

Yep, that's our Chihuahua Jack for ya!

peace,
mike

August 5, 2011 at 4:35 am#255026