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“And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee…”[Mat 21:11]
“…But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses…”[Mat 26:60]
“Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first….”[Mat 27:64]
“..And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people..” [Luke 24:19]
Hi Everyone,
I'm surprised how no-one seems to pay attention to “THE CONTEXT” of anyone's posts around here.
This problem is NOT isolated to the posts I make, but is a common problem! For this I cite…Hi Mike,
Does this verse mean that John the Baptist was the last of the old or the first of the new?
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John (the Baptist):
since that time the kingdom of God is preached,
and every man presseth into it.Consider:
Luke 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest:
for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways.Next I cite…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2011,05:59) Jesus was also a prophet Ed. He said so himself. Also, there are to be more prophets coming, according to Revelation.
Hi Mike,Was Jesus the first born into the kingdom or was John the Baptist?
So the context is clearly who was the first-born into the Kingdom of God
and when does the Kingdom of God begin; PERIOD! Stay on track guys.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 20 2011,16:42) Hi Mike, Here is another example why of we need to go back to the original texts…
If any come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)On the onset this looks like a breach of the fifth commandment,
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS“!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHere is an example of what Paladin has been doing to my posts. (Link)
Quote
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS”!
WRONG, you can find out it means love less through
reading commentaries, other translations and even word of mouth.I pray and hope Paladin will take note of my observations!
It's “deja vu” all over again.
Quote (Paladin @ July 25 2011,18:54) Quote I think the Scripture is pretty clear that John the Baptist was the last prophet.
And Jesus Christ was the first born into the kingdom of God. …what say you?“And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee…”[Mat 21:11]
“…But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses…”[Mat 26:60]
“Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first….”[Mat 27:64]
“..And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people..” [Luke 24:19]
Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2011,04:09) Quote (Ed J @ July 20 2011,16:42) Hi Mike, Here is another example why of we need to go back to the original texts…
If any come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)On the onset this looks like a breach of the fifth commandment,
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS“!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHere is an example of what Paladin has been doing to my posts. (Link)
Quote
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS”!
WRONG, you can find out it means love less through
reading commentaries, other translations and even word of mouth.I pray and hope Paladin will take note of my observations!
It's “deja vu” all over again.
Quote (Paladin @ July 25 2011,18:54) Quote I think the Scripture is pretty clear that John the Baptist was the last prophet.
And Jesus Christ was the first born into the kingdom of God. …what say you?“And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee…”[Mat 21:11]
“…But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses…”[Mat 26:60]
“Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first….”[Mat 27:64]
“..And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people..” [Luke 24:19]
Paladin has indeed “taken note” of Ed J's comments. Tell me my friend, Which was written first, the scriptures or the commentaties?Tell me my friend, from whom did the commentators learn the truth of the scriptures, from scripture or from commentaries?
Tell me my friend, (I know you know this) which was first written, Genesis chapter one, or a commentary about Gen chapter one?
How can we “search the scriptures” [John 5:39] if we are getting our understanding from “books about the scriptures?”
Quote (Paladin @ July 26 2011,19:56) Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2011,04:09) Quote (Ed J @ July 20 2011,16:42) Hi Mike, Here is another example why of we need to go back to the original texts…
If any come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)On the onset this looks like a breach of the fifth commandment,
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS“!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHere is an example of what Paladin has been doing to my posts. (Link)
Quote
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS”!
WRONG, you can find out it means love less through
reading commentaries, other translations and even word of mouth.I pray and hope Paladin will take note of my observations!
It's “deja vu” all over again.
Quote (Paladin @ July 25 2011,18:54) Quote I think the Scripture is pretty clear that John the Baptist was the last prophet.
And Jesus Christ was the first born into the kingdom of God. …what say you?“And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee…”[Mat 21:11]
“…But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses…”[Mat 26:60]
“Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first….”[Mat 27:64]
“..And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people..” [Luke 24:19]
1) Paladin has indeed “taken note” of Ed J's comments. Tell me my friend, Which was written first, the scriptures or the commentaties?2) Tell me my friend, from whom did the commentators learn the truth of the scriptures, from scripture or from commentaries?
3) Tell me my friend, (I know you know this) which was first written, Genesis chapter one, or a commentary about Gen chapter one?
4) How can we “search the scriptures” [John 5:39] if we are getting our understanding from “books about the scriptures?”
Hi Palidin,1) Um a duh um …Scriptures?
2) Um a duh um, wait, give me a minute: both maybe?
3) Yes, Genesis chapter one, definitely, Genesis chapter one, definitely. <– You were right, I did know that one.
4) That is why “WE” must study all pertinent information available to us, to draw the correct conclusions!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTo All……….WE are told to study the scriptures to Show yourself approved unto God, a Workman that need not to be ashamed, HOW? by rightly dividing the word of Truth. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 27 2011,07:39) To All……….WE are told to study the scriptures to Show yourself approved unto God, a Workman that need not to be ashamed, HOW? by rightly dividing the word of Truth. IMO peace and love…………………….gene
geneso true are we all doing it
??Pierre
all
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.
Mt 21:43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
Mk 1:15 “The time has come,”he said. “The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!”
Mk 4:11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parablesMk 4:26 He also said, “This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground.
Mk 4:30 Again he said, “What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use to describe it?
Mk 9:1 And he said to them, “I tell you the truth, some who are standingMk 10:23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”
Mk 10:24 The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!If any one do not understand what Jesus meant how then can he enter the kingdom of God ?
Pierre
Hey Paladin,
Why can't you just come out and say what you want to say?
Are you saying that you don't agree with Ed's information about “LOVE LESS”? If so, then just say that and show your reasons.
Everything with you must go a million miles out of the way just to discuss something that could be addressed with one simple sentence. Or better yet, one simple discussion where people discourse like normal human beings – without playing games.
If you don't agree with the commentaries about “love less”, then show your reasons why instead of making a big brouhaha about commentaries in general. It's really not that hard, dude.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,12:52) Hey Paladin, Why can't you just come out and say what you want to say?
Are you saying that you don't agree with Ed's information about “LOVE LESS”? If so, then just say that and show your reasons.
Everything with you must go a million miles out of the way just to discuss something that could be addressed with one simple sentence. Or better yet, one simple discussion where people discourse like normal human beings – without playing games.
If you don't agree with the commentaries about “love less”, then show your reasons why instead of making a big brouhaha about commentaries in general. It's really not that hard, dude.
mike
Hi Mike,That was just a hypothetical example of what he “was” doing.
I just made up that one as an example for him to see it
without being directly involved; it works better.But thanks for you concern,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,12:52) Hey Paladin, Why can't you just come out and say what you want to say?
Are you saying that you don't agree with Ed's information about “LOVE LESS”? If so, then just say that and show your reasons.
Everything with you must go a million miles out of the way just to discuss something that could be addressed with one simple sentence. Or better yet, one simple discussion where people discourse like normal human beings – without playing games.
If you don't agree with the commentaries about “love less”, then show your reasons why instead of making a big brouhaha about commentaries in general. It's really not that hard, dude.
mike
Mike………….I disagree with the commentaries about “LOVE LESS” By comparison. I think what Jesus said was right. If we do not (HATE) our Fathers and Mothers and brothers and sisters ,and OUR (LIVES) ALSO WE can not be his disciple. Why? becasue you will reject what you hate and hold onto what you Love. Notice he did not say Hate them or ourselves But their and our (LIVES) Another word the way we and they live, He was not talking about them or us as persons but our and their lives LIVES WE and THEY LIVE IMOpeace and love…………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2011,01:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,12:52) Hey Paladin, Why can't you just come out and say what you want to say?
Are you saying that you don't agree with Ed's information about “LOVE LESS”? If so, then just say that and show your reasons.
Everything with you must go a million miles out of the way just to discuss something that could be addressed with one simple sentence. Or better yet, one simple discussion where people discourse like normal human beings – without playing games.
If you don't agree with the commentaries about “love less”, then show your reasons why instead of making a big brouhaha about commentaries in general. It's really not that hard, dude.
mike
Mike………….I disagree with the commentaries about “LOVE LESS” By comparison. I think what Jesus said was right. If we do not (HATE) our Fathers and Mothers and brothers and sisters ,and OUR (LIVES) ALSO WE can not be his disciple. Why? becasue you will reject what you hate and hold onto what you Love. Notice he did not say Hate them or ourselves But their and our (LIVES) Another word the way we and they live, He was not talking about them or us as persons but our and their lives LIVES WE and THEY LIVE IMOpeace and love…………………………………gene
Gene,Good explanation.
KJ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2011,08:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 27 2011,12:52) Hey Paladin, Why can't you just come out and say what you want to say?
Are you saying that you don't agree with Ed's information about “LOVE LESS”? If so, then just say that and show your reasons.
Everything with you must go a million miles out of the way just to discuss something that could be addressed with one simple sentence. Or better yet, one simple discussion where people discourse like normal human beings – without playing games.
If you don't agree with the commentaries about “love less”, then show your reasons why instead of making a big brouhaha about commentaries in general. It's really not that hard, dude.
mike
Mike………….I disagree with the commentaries about “LOVE LESS” By comparison. I think what Jesus said was right. If we do not (HATE) our Fathers and Mothers and brothers and sisters ,and OUR (LIVES) ALSO WE can not be his disciple. Why? becasue you will reject what you hate and hold onto what you Love. Notice he did not say Hate them or ourselves But their and our (LIVES) Another word the way we and they live, He was not talking about them or us as persons but our and their lives LIVES WE and THEY LIVE IMOpeace and love…………………………………gene
Genei do not clearly understand what you are saying
this is what I understand from that scripture;
in the same way that Christ chose to give up his live for Gods will this is to me the direction ,he out of his freewill chose to give up and obey God s will instead of his own ,so he deny his own live and will and follow Gods will,
and so we have to love God as he says with all our hearts this tells us no room for any other ,only Gods will,and to that it says all our strength so there would be no strength left for other things, and ad ,with all our soul (spirit) this would not left any other thoughts for anyone else above God will,
so that whatever we love it will be always less than the love we have for Gods will,and so always obey it .
this is my understanding;
Pierre
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 27 2011,11:33) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2011,01:51)
Mike………….I disagree with the commentaries about “LOVE LESS” By comparison. I think what Jesus said was right. If we do not (HATE) our Fathers and Mothers and brothers and sisters ,and OUR (LIVES) ALSO WE can not be his disciple. Why? becasue you will reject what you hate and hold onto what you Love. Notice he did not say Hate them or ourselves But their and our (LIVES) Another word the way we and they live, He was not talking about them or us as persons but our and their lives LIVES WE and THEY LIVE IMOpeace and love…………………………………gene
Gene,Good explanation.
KJ
I was about to say the same thing. Imagine ME agreeing with both Gene AND Jack in the same post!
Gene, you have explained your view and reasons for it wonderfully. However, I disagree with your conclusion for the following reasons:
Luke 6:27
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you…..
This seems to me like Jesus is telling us to hate no one – not even our enemies.1 John 2:9
Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness.1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.1 John 4:20
If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.I can't see John preaching the OPPOSITE of what Jesus preached, can you?
This is from TWOT:
The unconditional claim of Jesus means that earthly ties must be put second, but obviously this is not to be construed as psychological hatred. In the NT even holy repudiation is embraced by divine love. It thus involves a repudiation of all personal hatred.I agree with this and believe the following scripture supports this thought:
Luke 16:13
“No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”I understand this to be saying that no matter how hard one might try to serve two masters equally, they will always end up loving one MORE THAN the other. I don't believe the other one is necessarily HATED, but merely “loved less”. And I understand Luke 14:26 the same way. Jesus clarifies what he is saying in 14:33,
33 In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.So I don't think he is telling us to literally HATE our parents in opposition to the fifth commandment, which tells us to HONOR them. I think his point is that we are to be willing to walk away from even the things we hold most dear in this life, if necessary, as a demostration that we love Jesus, his God, and their Kingdom EVEN MORE than those things.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts about it Gene.
peace,
mikeMike………..Do you see what you do Here, you change context of what i and scripture says, I said that Jesus was not talking about the (person) but their (lives) they lead. His focus was not about the person at all but about their LIVES. Mike this is what you do with most everything being discussed Here you create confusion and use it to confuse the truth of Scriptures by distort the context of scriptures. That is your expertise and prevents all true progress and growth here. IMO
peace and love…………………………………..gene
Mike………Tell us this, when Jesus said he hated the “deeds” of the Nicolatians was he also saying he hated them to?
peace and love………………………………gene
Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2011,21:12) [/quote] Quote (Paladin @ July 26 2011,19:56) Quote (Ed J @ July 26 2011,04:09) Ed wrote:Hi Mike,
Here is another example why of we need to go back to the original texts…
If any come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)On the onset this looks like a breach of the fifth commandment,
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS“!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHere is an example of what Paladin has been doing to my posts. (Link)
Quote
only when we investigate the Greek do we find it means to “LOVE LESS”!
WRONG, you can find out it means love less through
reading commentaries, other translations and even word of mouth.I pray and hope Paladin will take note of my observations!
It's “deja vu” all over again.
Quote (Paladin @ July 25 2011,18:54) Quote I think the Scripture is pretty clear that John the Baptist was the last prophet.
And Jesus Christ was the first born into the kingdom of God. …what say you?“And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee…”[Mat 21:11]
“…But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses…”[Mat 26:60]
“Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first….”[Mat 27:64]
“..And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people..” [Luke 24:19]
1) Paladin has indeed “taken note” of Ed J's comments. Tell me my friend, Which was written first, the scriptures or the commentaties?2) Tell me my friend, from whom did the commentators learn the truth of the scriptures, from scripture or from commentaries?
3) Tell me my friend, (I know you know this) which was first written, Genesis chapter one, or a commentary about Gen chapter one?
4) How can we “search the scriptures” [John 5:39] if we are getting our understanding from “books about the scriptures?”
Quote Hi Palidin, 1) Um a duh um …Scriptures?
2) Um a duh um, wait, give me a minute: both maybe?Think for a moment my friend, how can you have a commentary at the moment the scripture appears? It must first be recognized, read, studied, assimulated, addressed, studied, poured over for the deeper meanings of the deep things of God, and only then can one develope a commentary.
So, no, a commentary cannot be there when the scripture shows up.
3) Yes, Genesis chapter one, definitely, Genesis chapter one, definitely. <– You were right, I did know that one.
Quote
4) That is why “WE” must study all pertinent information available to us, to draw the correct conclusions!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgBut you must first established that commentary is “pertinent” to scripture study, and further it should be established that commentary knows what it is talking about. This has not been establsihed, except by those who already look to the commentator for his/her understanding.
I don't. I look to the scriptures to help me understand the scriptures.
Where do you go to find understanding about “Nehushtan” Ed? And where do you read of his final effect upon men?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 29 2011,08:30) Mike………..Do you see what you do Here, you change context of what i and scripture says, I said that Jesus was not talking about the (person) but their (lives) they lead. His focus was not about the person at all but about their LIVES. Mike this is what you do with most everything being discussed Here you create confusion and use it to confuse the truth of Scriptures by distort the context of scriptures. That is your expertise and prevents all true progress and growth here. IMO peace and love…………………………………..gene
Gene,The words don't say to hate your mother's LIFE. Nor her DEEDS. They simply say “hate your mother…………”.
Is this yet another scripture you must add your own words into to make it form around YOUR OWN understanding?
Gene, I thought FOR ONCE you and I could have a grown-up discussion. You have proved me wrong once again.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 30 2011,13:10) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 29 2011,08:30) Mike………..Do you see what you do Here, you change context of what i and scripture says, I said that Jesus was not talking about the (person) but their (lives) they lead. His focus was not about the person at all but about their LIVES. Mike this is what you do with most everything being discussed Here you create confusion and use it to confuse the truth of Scriptures by distort the context of scriptures. That is your expertise and prevents all true progress and growth here. IMO peace and love…………………………………..gene
Gene,The words don't say to hate your mother's LIFE. Nor her DEEDS. They simply say “hate your mother…………”.
Is this yet another scripture you must add your own words into to make it form around YOUR OWN understanding?
Gene, I thought FOR ONCE you and I could have a grown-up discussion. You have proved me wrong once again.
Hi Mike and Gene:Maybe the following scripture will help:
Quote Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.Love in Christ,
Marty
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