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Terricca……………and you and Irene are also the same frustrations here continentally accusing ofthers of being corrupt and of Satan and your yourselves are the very worst of corruption here , your both have accused us all and personally atacked us all under the disguise of being a Christian. Bad Form i must say by both of you. IMO
peace and love……………………………gene
To All……………This subject of Spirits having Bodies is one of the most important questions that needs to be understood it can open up many, many, many, scriptures written in bible to us.
I will repeat again Spirit (intellects) do not have any kind of Bodies whatsoever they are what is (IN) Bodies they are the animating force of Thoughts driving all life forms, They (spirits) impute AND ARE the Intellect that is in all living things in existence from a one celled ameba's to the largest of all whales of God's creation. God is a SPIRIT (intellect) and existed and can live vicariously (IN) His Creation and can exist outside of it also. Nothing that has life exists without spirit in it. IMO
When we start applying Metaphysical existence to Spirits is where the error starts , Because no such thing exists as a metaphysical spirit beings , there simple is Spirit (intellect) (IN) Physical beings causing it (the body) to live. No one will ever exist without a BODY it is absolute crucial if we die we are resurrect with a BODY and Have Spirit added back into it , in order for us to continue to live , Just as Jesus was raised with a BODY in order for Him to continue to live also. If Jesus was not raised with a Body He would still be dead to this day.
He plainly said He had a Body of flesh and Bone and he was not a Spirit because he said a Spirit does not have a body as he said he had so my advice is don't get caught up[ in this MYSTERY RELIGION that some Here are preaching like they know different even against Jesus direct words, they still deny a Flesh resurrection even though all resurrections in scripture shows there was a Physical body involved , even the valley of dead Bones written in Ezekiel should be enough to show anyone that, and GOD said it was the WHOLE HOUSE of ISREAL, And they certainly had Physical flesh living bodies.
This thing about Spirit is definitely one of the main stumbling blocks of Christianity. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………gene
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,07:22) Irene, SPIRITUAL does not mean SPIRIT. Even George had to screw around trying to make it fit by say 'drop the UAL' – Irene, even you must have said “George, that was extremely silly, dear!”
I agree that Jesus said he had flesh and bone and that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.But saying that spiritual is not talking about spirit is like saying that fleshly is not talking about the flesh.
Sorry, I am new to this topic, so my question may seem a bit innocent or naive.
When I take some words at random that end in 'ual', it seems clear that they are related to the root word.
e.g.,
actual
conceptual
conflictual
consensual
contextual
continual
contractual
factual
habitual
ineffectual
instinctual
intellectual
perpetual
sexual
spiritual
tactual
virtual
visualWhat is the point here pertaining to spirit and spiritual?
One is a noun and the the other an adjective. Is this the difference you are highlighting, or are you making another point?Gene, I am not disputing what you have posted. I am just curious as to how you view a seraphim or cherubim.
What are the wings made of for instance?Irene,
I do not know for sure whether demons are fallen angels or not. I do know that can be hypothesized based on the fact that Satan, a fallen angel, is to have struck Job with illness and demons are also said to do that to humans. This seems to be the strongest evidence one way or another I assume it is true and so base my thoughts on whether they have flesh on their relationship to angels.
I know that Jesus declared that immaterial beings cannot be touched or can they eat and yet according to Genesis 10:1-11 the two angels both ate with and touched Lot. I conclude from that evidence that angels are material beings and so if demons are fallen angels then they too are material beings.
Scripture state there are at least three heavens and that they can contain God. Stephen did see the Glory of God in one heaven. I know more about the third heaven which Paul to some point describes in scripture. The question I have is if the Garden of Eden is immaterial or material since it is located in the third heaven. I believe it is also mentioned in Revelations.
What do you call flesh and what do you call flesh since the flesh of a rabbit is not the flesh of a snake? Do you believe all flesh is the same?
All things are possible with God even having a flesh and blood human walk through a closed door as if nothing was there.
The first Adam was created from the earth by God and the second Adam was the life God breathed from heaven into the first Adam. Was the first man subject to death when God created him? Was the first man a resident of the kingdom of heaven at that time?
T8,
If Paul what speaking of all flesh and blood then why did he bother arguing that all flesh is not the same?
I think he was probably referring to humans given that we can inherit eternal life. I don't think that rabbits are leaping about in the third heaven for instance.
all
why is it that Jesus says;;Jn 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
flesh is only a envelope
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 04 2011,21:57) Terricca……………and you and Irene are also the same frustrations here continentally accusing ofthers of being corrupt and of Satan and your yourselves are the very worst of corruption here , your both have accused us all and personally atacked us all under the disguise of being a Christian. Bad Form i must say by both of you. IMO peace and love……………………………gene
geneyou do not remember all the things you say, witch was the reason for us answer you ,according to your wisdom,or folly
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 04 2011,22:24) To All……………This subject of Spirits having Bodies is one of the most important questions that needs to be understood it can open up many, many, many, scriptures written in bible to us. I will repeat again Spirit (intellects) do not have any kind of Bodies whatsoever they are what is (IN) Bodies they are the animating force of Thoughts driving all life forms, They (spirits) impute AND ARE the Intellect that is in all living things in existence from a one celled ameba's to the largest of all whales of God's creation. God is a SPIRIT (intellect) and existed and can live vicariously (IN) His Creation and can exist outside of it also. Nothing that has life exists without spirit in it. IMO
When we start applying Metaphysical existence to Spirits is where the error starts , Because no such thing exists as a metaphysical spirit beings , there simple is Spirit (intellect) (IN) Physical beings causing it (the body) to live. No one will ever exist without a BODY it is absolute crucial if we die we are resurrect with a BODY and Have Spirit added back into it , in order for us to continue to live , Just as Jesus was raised with a BODY in order for Him to continue to live also. If Jesus was not raised with a Body He would still be dead to this day.
He plainly said He had a Body of flesh and Bone and he was not a Spirit because he said a Spirit does not have a body as he said he had so my advice is don't get caught up[ in this MYSTERY RELIGION that some Here are preaching like they know different even against Jesus direct words, they still deny a Flesh resurrection even though all resurrections in scripture shows there was a Physical body involved , even the valley of dead Bones written in Ezekiel should be enough to show anyone that, and GOD said it was the WHOLE HOUSE of ISREAL, And they certainly had Physical flesh living bodies.
This thing about Spirit is definitely one of the main stumbling blocks of Christianity. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………gene
allI rather think that we live because the spirit that God has given us all,and wen we die returns to him,filled with who you are,and so will come into his judgment at the end.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
so all flesh has breath and spirit, according to its kind ,
Nu 11:29 But Moses replied, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD'S people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!”
Nu 14:24 But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.the spirit here means what we stand for and are ready to die for,
Pierre
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 04 2011,13:43) I think he was probably referring to humans given that we can inherit eternal life. I don't think that rabbits are leaping about in the third heaven for instance.
Paul does state that Paradise, which is translated “Garden”, is there. The Garden did have both plants and animals in it as well as humans. I am not sure that all were cast out when humans were.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 04 2011,14:57) Terricca……………and you and Irene are also the same frustrations here continentally accusing ofthers of being corrupt and of Satan and your yourselves are the very worst of corruption here , your both have accused us all and personally atacked us all under the disguise of being a Christian. Bad Form i must say by both of you. IMO peace and love……………………………gene
Gene!~ When you make a statement like that you better have prove that I did atrack you. Let me see a post were i did that. Or i will say something to t8 about this. It is not right of you to accuse me of that,m when I was the one who have been called by Istari a liar etc. You also have called me more then once that I have the spirit of Anti-Christ because I believe in the pteexisting of Jesus, which is according to Scripture. IreneQuote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2011,18:00) Irene, I do not know for sure whether demons are fallen angels or not. I do know that can be hypothesized based on the fact that Satan, a fallen angel, is to have struck Job with illness and demons are also said to do that to humans. This seems to be the strongest evidence one way or another I assume it is true and so base my thoughts on whether they have flesh on their relationship to angels.
I know that Jesus declared that immaterial beings cannot be touched or can they eat and yet according to Genesis 10:1-11 the two angels both ate with and touched Lot. I conclude from that evidence that angels are material beings and so if demons are fallen angels then they too are material beings.
Scripture state there are at least three heavens and that they can contain God. Stephen did see the Glory of God in one heaven. I know more about the third heaven which Paul to some point describes in scripture. The question I have is if the Garden of Eden is immaterial or material since it is located in the third heaven. I believe it is also mentioned in Revelations.
What do you call flesh and what do you call flesh since the flesh of a rabbit is not the flesh of a snake? Do you believe all flesh is the same?
All things are possible with God even having a flesh and blood human walk through a closed door as if nothing was there.
The first Adam was created from the earth by God and the second Adam was the life God breathed from heaven into the first Adam. Was the first man subject to death when God created him? Was the first man a resident of the kingdom of heaven at that time?
Kerwin! You ask some important questions. Remember when Lucifer rebelled and became Satan, one third of the Angels went with him. They are noe called demons. There is a Scripture of hand I don't know where that is, but I will find out for you later.
1 Corinth tells us that there are different kinds of flesh1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.
You say that Angels are material beings, but material beings are visible beings? I thought Angels are immaterial beings not visible…
They however can become material beings, since they are serving Angels for us…I have been aware of them twice in my life. In fact the saved Tiffany our Granddaughter from harm, and me too….
As far as the Garden of Eden goes it is right now not visible because of Adams sin, but when God will come with the New Jerusalem IMO it will be visible….Is the Tree of Life not in the Garden of Eden? .Since the meek inherit the Earth they are flesh and blood and will need the Tree of life, at least that is the way I see it….I also agree with you that there are three Heavens.
Peace Irene
t8,
So you think:
a “Spirit Family” is the same as a “Spiritual Family”
or a “Spirit World” is the same as a “Spiritual World”
or a “Spirit Being/Body” is the same as a “Spiritual Being/Body”
or “Spirit Wisdom” is the same as “Spiritual Wisdom”
or a “Spirit Child” is the same as a “Spiritual Child”
or a….you get the picture?
a “Spirit Family” is the same as a “Spiritual Family”
There is only ONE Spirit family of whom the head is God Almighty.
There are MANY Spiritual Families of whom the heads are the fathers as in Paul being the Spiritual Father of Onesimus and Peter being the Spiritual Head of the World order, the Spiritual Family, of Churches.a “Spirit World” is the same as a “Spiritual World”
The Spirit World is Heaven (And/or the three/seven [Spiritual] Heavens) This/These are the REAL Heaven(s) where God and Angels exist in natural form.
Spiritual World, is a world of sinlessness and incorruption. This is an asperational world that men are required to attempt to attain. Note that this is still within the physical world that humans exist in.a “Spirit Being/Body” is the same as a “Spiritual Being/Body” (Note: “Being” and “Body” are interchangeable in this context: 'Some body' = 'Some being' simply means 'Person')
A Spirit Person is an ANGEL, or God, or Jesus, existing in the Spirit Realm.
A Spiritual Person is any Person – including MAN – who is PURE in thought, Righteous in Act and Deed, Incorruptible in Body (Not given to Sinful ways) and Godly in nature. And – Since Angels, Spirits, are already, from their creation, and by their very nature, Spiritual, why would Paul say that Jesus, raised into a FLESH and BONE Body, had a Spiritual Body, if he meant that Jesus was raised as a “Spirit Body” – Why say “SPIRITUAL” if he meant “SPIRIT”?
(p.s. Nothing written in Scriptures is by accident nor is incidental – except where it is a corruption by man)“Spirit Wisdom” is the same as “Spiritual Wisdom”
Do Spirits HAVE Wisdom? Only asking?
But Spiritual Wisdom is Wisdom of the Pure and Godly, True Wisdom not an Earthly Wisdom (Not as MEN are Wise).a “Spirit Child” is the same as a “Spiritual Child”
Do Spirits have Children? Is there such a thing as a Baby Spirit in Heaven? (No sentimental answers please…!)
But a Spiritual Child is one who is young is the Wisdom of God, naive in godliness and yearning for righteousness, stumbling into and out of Sin but gaining in confidence daily towards sinlessness and building incorruptibility in his flesh.Perhaps, t8, SPIRITUAL pertains to 'the' SPIRIT
Spiritual is NOT Spirit.
One, as you say is a NOUN and the other is an Adjective.Addendum (How can I get editing rights)
(Question marks missing from questions – not meant to be statements…cheers!)Also:
From my time here – I have seen Shimmer as SPIRITUAL and Princess to a degree. Yet neither of them are Angels nor SPIRITS, yet they are both Spiritual Bodies/Persons!Irene……….Where have i said YOU have the spirit of Antichrist, What i said was all Gnostic's, and Trinitarians and Preexistence have the Spirit of Antichrist (In my opinion) so if the shoe fits ware it. Tell T8 all you wish to i am sure by now he know your tactics pretty much. You misrepresent scriptures all the time Irene, Like you just have above about Lucifer thing when Scripture (CLEARLY SAY) HE WAS A (MAN) but you say he is Satan some kind of invisible elusive being . But you have not produced any scripture that says that Lucifer is SATAN, nor do you even deal with scripture that say he was a (MAN) nor deal the fact that Message was sent to the (King) of Babylon not some elusive unseen creature of some kind. You force the text to say what in fact they do not (SPECIFICALLY SAY)/ You also say Jesus is the wisdom being talked about in Psalms and it calls wisdom a SHE and i do believe Jesus was a HE, and again your unable to deal with the fact Wisdom was being Personified Metaphorically but was really not a being , wisdom is something a being can have (IN) him or her, it is a attribute not a person. But again it is not truth your truly care about here IMO, it is just getting our own way> And that applies to Terricca who has no problem accusing people of all kind of thing as you do and laughing at them as you also do. IMO
gene
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 04 2011,17:57) Gene, I am not disputing what you have posted. I am just curious as to how you view a seraphim or cherubim.
What are the wings made of for instance?
T8……….I am not sure what The wing are made of or if that is just symbolic language. If we look at the wings of the four creatures they appear to have eyes in them, this to me means the Spirits of GOD which elevates them above others and perhaps that is what the wing imply. God's spirit does elevate us to a higher level of understanding perhaps this is what is being implied. Maybe this also applies to Seraphim's and Cherubims. That is just conjecture on my part not sure though T8.Peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
To All………..Spirit(ual) simply mean tending toward being (like) It has nothing to do with a person existing in a SPIRIT (BODY) because Spirits (intellects)do not have bodies, But it does Have to do with What is (IN) a Body that is causing a person toward being Spiritually motivated. Another point, if Paul's meant spirit body he simply would have said it, that would be an obvious thing to do if that were the case. Again i believe there is no being that exists without a body of some kind, except GOD alone who can exist (IN) side his creation or external of it. “THAT GOD MAY BE ALL AND (IN) YOU ALL”. God lives vicariously in and out of his creation and no life exist with out his spirit (intellect) working IN it. He is the life of all thing and abides in and give life to all things, He is in that way OMNIPRESENT, yes even if a sparrow hits the ground and dies he takes note of it , because his spirit leave the creature and returns to him who gave it in the first place. God did not create this Physical creation to destory it ever and that includes mankind also. He promises to deliver the (whole) creation from the bondage of corruption we are told. There is nothing wrong with His Physical creation it is absolute beautiful and wonderfully made and will bring him honor and glory forever When God said it was very GOOD he meant that. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………..gene
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