Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2011,10:41)

Quote (david @ Jan. 01 2011,17:57)

Quote

You would have to ask, why did Jesus come “in the flesh” in the first place?

I believe it was to give his human life as a “ransom” sacrifice Georg.

I haven't seen any movies where a ransom is given and then taken back. A ransom is something given in exchange. He gave up his perfect human life, his human body. He did not then forfeit the ransom and take it back.

Hi All,

Within David's statement lies the truth, I believe. A ransom is not “taken back”, right? Ahhhh, but Jesus ransomed his LIFE for us, and yet he received it back, right? So why not his body?

Here's what we have to reconcile:
1. Jesus now has a spiritual body.
2. Scripture says his BODY would NOT see decay, like the other David's body did.
3. Jesus point blank told his disciples that he was NOT spirit after he was raised from the dead but before he ascended.

I believe that Jesus was raised in the same body he died in. And saying that body was the sacrifice does not work, because his life was the sacrifice, and he got that back after. Jesus told his disciples that a spirit does not have flesh and bone, as you see I have. He showed them his holes to prove to them it was really him.

For him to have “manifested” a fake flesh body, complete with holes, and then TRICK his disciples into thinking he wasn't a spirit when he really was would have been deceitful, and Jesus would not do that.

Jesus was rasied back to earth for 40 days before he ascended. Why would he need a spiritual body at that point? He wouldn't need to have his flesh body transformed into a spiritual body until he ascended, so why transform it 40 days early?

And finally, scripture cannot be broken, and Paul makes it very clear that while David was dead and buried and his body DID see decay, Jesus' did NOT.

The only way all the scriptures fit together is if Jesus was raised in the body he died in, and then 40 days later, as he ascended, that body was transformed into the glorious, spiritual body he now has.

peace and love,
mike

Hi mike

i have seen you are back ,so back to business.

question;in those two verses what it mean to see decay??

Ps 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
Ps 49:9 that he should live on forever
and not see decay.
Ps 49:14 Like sheep they are destined for the grave,
and death will feed on them.

to me the decay of the body is not spooken here,but decay seams to refer to time spend were dead is feeding on your live.

like Paul says the body flesh mean for nothing,just the temporary box from witch we express our selves,

Pierre

January 1, 2011 at 7:07 pm#230972

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duplicate

January 1, 2011 at 7:31 pm#230973

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2011,05:06)

question;in those two verses what it mean to see decay??

Hi Pierre,

1) corruption, destruction
2) in the NT that destruction which is effected by the decay of the body after death

This is from NETNotes regarding the Greek word used for “decay”.

mike

January 1, 2011 at 10:23 pm#230982

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2011,05:17)

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 01 2011,17:56)

Mike, why did you tile JA for every insult He gave you and not TILE Piere ? Pretty strange if you ask me.

Shimmer,

If I had tiled JA for every insult he gave, he would have about a million tiles by now, and you know it.

Did you not see the private warnings I gave him that he posted? Did you not see the way I pleaded for him to stop? Did you not notice that I said, “I don't want you off the site, but just to stop the verbal abuse”?

And finally, did you not get the hint when he used an instance of Jesus calling Peter “SATAN” towards you when you were only trying to help? Jesus said “Get thee behind me, Satan”, and JA said “Get thee behind me, Shimmer”.

He said his mission was to get banned. I gave him what he clearly asked for, and I'm not sorry about it at all. Until JA can grow up and discourse with respect for others, who needs him on a Christian site anyway? Not me.

Anyway, this is all water under the bridge. I am not a mod anymore. t8 has decided to leave the moderator who hasn't made a post here in 6 months in charge while he's on vacation.

Don't you even feel a LITTLE sorry for ME, Shimmer? I lost my “job” because of your angry, arrogant, and misguided friend.

peace and love,
mike

Mike, I know what you have been through, I was praying for you last night. Paul Cohen (from memory of his name) should have been banned for what He said to you on the forum, I read it, much later though. For one to judge others in the way he did is wrong. By the way, it never worried me that Jay told me to get behind him as Satan, Jesus said this to Peter too. So no never worried me. Jay I saw more as being frustrated to have you see His point.

January 1, 2011 at 10:26 pm#230983

Participant

Double posted.

January 1, 2011 at 10:51 pm#230984

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2011,05:41)

And finally, scripture cannot be broken, and Paul makes it very clear that while David was dead and buried and his body DID see decay, Jesus' did NOT.

peace and love,
mike

Good Mike. I pray others here come to see this important thing, and that you Mike after the battle can move on from it, it seemed quite a battle to be going through for you.

For me personally, peace is what I seek. And I believe I will find it soon.

January 2, 2011 at 1:24 am#230991

Blocked

Hi Shimmer,

Thank you for your prayers and kind words. Did you notice I gave you credit for teaching me in the first post on page 147? I learn from everyone here……….and have for over a year now.

peace and love,
mike

January 2, 2011 at 1:50 am#230994

Baker

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2011,03:41)

Quote (david @ Jan. 01 2011,17:57)

Quote

You would have to ask, why did Jesus come “in the flesh” in the first place?

I believe it was to give his human life as a “ransom” sacrifice Georg.

Hi All,

Within David's statement lies the truth, I believe. A ransom is not “taken back”, right? Ahhhh, but Jesus ransomed his LIFE for us, and yet he received it back, right? So why not his body?

And finally, scripture cannot be broken, and Paul makes it very clear that while David was dead and buried and his body DID see decay, Jesus' did NOT.

peace and love,
mike

Mike! No matter what you or anyone of you believe, Jesus did not receive His flesh body back. He is a Spiritual body now since His resurrection. You don't want to believe that, that is fine……but to say that Jesus got His body back is false. There are two Scriptures that says Jesus body is the ransom…..
Why don't you believe when Scriptures say that He appeared in a room with closed doors. How did He get there? Flesh and blood cannot go through a closed door…..

Jhn 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.

Jhn 20:24 ¶ But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

Jhn 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

Jhn 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.

The Apostles doubted Jesus so He showed them His flesh body, that does not mean tha He was that way when He went through the closed door.

I do know how hard this is, but He gave His life for us as a ransom…..There is something not right here, but a ransom is what it is, instead of…..You say IT ONLY FITS, BUT IT DOES NOT what about the Scripture were it says that Jesus appeared in a room with closed doors……… Peace Irene.

January 2, 2011 at 2:02 am#230996

Blocked

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,11:50)

Hi Irene,

You just said that Jesus “gave his LIFE for us as a ransom”, right? Did Jesus receive his LIFE back, even though it was ransomed for us? YES. So, I ask you, WHY NOT HIS BODY?

I've showed you scriptures that said Jesus' BODY would NOT see decay like David's did. I showed you scripture where Jesus told his followers that he WASN'T a spirit. I showed you scriptures where Jesus still had the holes in his hands and in his side.

And you showed me scriptures where Jesus appeared inside a closed room. You assert that a flesh and bone man could not do that. But that same flesh and bone man walked on water and was transfigured and glowed as bright as the sun, so how could you use appearing in a locked room as any kind of proof?

For me, it all boils down to Luke 24:39. I honestly don't believe that Jesus could have been a spirit with a fake body and still tell his disciples he wasn't a spirit. That would have been deceitful, and I just don't think Jesus would have done that.

Irene, we can agree to disagree on this one.

peace and love,
mike

January 2, 2011 at 2:11 am#230998

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2011,19:02)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,11:50)

Hi Irene,

You just said that Jesus “gave his LIFE for us as a ransom”, right? Did Jesus receive his LIFE back, even though it was ransomed for us? YES. So, I ask you, WHY NOT HIS BODY?

Irene, we can agree to disagree on this one.

peace and love,
mike

MIKE

witch live did he got back??the glorious one what he had before ??or the old one from before his dead??

if he received the one from heaven then why looking for the old one it would be discard,

if he got the old one back then he never made a offering right ? the only thing he did then is going trough a dead process,from heaven to men to heaven,

what is it Mike ??

Pierre

January 2, 2011 at 2:11 am#230999

Participant

triplicate

January 2, 2011 at 2:13 am#231000

Participant

duplicate

January 2, 2011 at 2:19 am#231001

Participant

Mike, a battle is on, not with anything other than good and evil, unseen, unheard of, the end days have come, not that anyone knows better, seek the Lord to all those who seek, and he can be found, in the innermost part of who we are, be still and know that I am Lord, he says, to all those who hear.

I prayed and asked for words to say to you Mike, which I have done here in this post, but then I asked for an answer to this neverending dispute over 'do spirits have bodies', seeing the discussion seems to cause friction, as did others,

I had and felt nothing,
No answers, no feeling. Why ?

I tried again. Still nothing.
But a blank in front of my eyes, and a blank in my mind,
silence.

Have to go now, my son is reminding me that I said I wouldnt go on the computer in the day,

January 2, 2011 at 2:27 am#231002

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2011,12:11)

MIKE

witch live did he got back??the glorious one what he had before ??or the old one from before his dead??

if he received the one from heaven then why looking for the old one it would be discard,

if he got the old one back then he never made a offering right ? the only thing he did then is going trough a dead process,from heaven to men to heaven,

what is it Mike ??

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Acts 13 NIV
34 God raised him from the dead so that he will never be subject to decay. As God has said,

“‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’

35 So it is also stated elsewhere:

“‘You will not let your holy one see decay.’

36 “Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. 37 But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.

Pierre, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. Do you think Jesus was three different people with three different sets of memories, etc? Do you think when he was raised from the dead, it was a brand new life – as if he was a newborn baby with no memories of his past with God and his past on earth?

peace and love,
mike

January 2, 2011 at 2:33 am#231003

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 02 2011,12:19)

Absolutely wonderful and inspired, Shimmer.

Thank you for relaying that to me.

peace and love,
mike

January 2, 2011 at 2:42 am#231004

Baker

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2011,12:02)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,11:50)

Hi Irene,

You just said that Jesus “gave his LIFE for us as a ransom”, right? Did Jesus receive his LIFE back, even though it was ransomed for us? YES. So, I ask you, WHY NOT HIS BODY?

Irene, we can agree to disagree on this one.

peace and love,
mike

Mike! What purpose would it have if He died and got His old fleshly body back? A ransom is in stead, and so that fleshly body was taken away so it would not see decay. And what purpose would there be to have a fleshly body only to go to Heaven in a spiritual body later. Also when Jesus was walking with some apostles they did not recognize Him and neither did Maria Magdalene.
When Jesus appeared to the Apostles they thought they had seen a ghost. They also were frightened. That is why he had to show them His fleshly body……to put their doubt to sleep……
look I think there is no sense in going on and on about this, so lets agree to disagree like you said before….Peace Irene

January 2, 2011 at 3:04 am#231006

Blocked

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,12:42)

Mike! What purpose would it have if He died and got His old fleshly body back? A ransom is in stead,

Hi Irene,

Jesus' LIFE was also the sacrifice, right? And he got his LIFE back, right?

How can you say the body must “disappear” forever in order to be the sacrifice, but the LIFE doesn't have to?

Irene, you pride yourself on following SCRIPTURES.

1. What do you think about the SCRIPTURES that say Jesus' body would NOT see decay?

2. How about the scripture in Acts 13 that says God raised him up so that he would NOT see decay?

3. And do you think it makes more sense that Jesus really WASN'T a spirit when he told the disciples he wasn't, and therefore told the truth?

4. Or does it make more sense to you that he really WAS a spirit and just manufactured a fake body, complete with holes, just to trick them and deceive them into THINKING he was not a spirit when he was?

Irene, I've seen your scriptures. I've studied them. I acknowledge that they are real. But you are basing your understanding on only SOME OF THE EVIDENCE. There are these other scriptures that I keep posting, and you haven't really answered to those ones yet. Can you answer the 4 points I've listed above?

peace and love,
mike

January 2, 2011 at 9:01 am#231015

Baker

Participant

I think what most of you don't understand is, that body, and mind/spirit, are two separate components in physical/visible beings, and in spirit/invisible beings.
Spirit/invisible beings can not die, only God can destroy them.
When we, physical/visible beings die, only our body decays, our mind/spirit is preserved by God and placed in a new body at the resurrection.
Jesus was a spirit/invisible being before he became man. God changed his spirit/invisible body into a physical/visible body. If we believe that God can change our physical/visible body into a spirit/invisible body, why then is it so hard to believe that God did that with his son Jesus?
Jesus had to become one of us for two reasons; one, spirit/invisible beings can't die; two, he came to die for one of us, Adam.
God changed his “nature” from spirit/invisible, to physical/visible. This change did not effect his mind/spirit. He knew who he was, where he had come from, who his Father was, and why he had come.
After our death and resurrection we will know, when and where we lived, how we lived, what we did, etc.
It was Jesus flesh body that took on all of our sins, not his mind/spirit; it was Jesus' “flesh” body that was sentenced to death, not his mind/spirit.
When God raised him from the dead, he raised him with the body he had before, spirit/invisible.
That flesh body “was” the RANSOM, it changed places with Adam. Adam had his sins removed, taken on by Jesus, now Jesus flesh body was condemned to death, and had to remain in the grave.
How can any one think that Jesus' flesh body, scared beyond recognition, could be considered a glorious body? No human body is considered a glorious body.
Is it really so hard to understand why God would not allow for “that” body to see corruption, decay?

The Bible is quite clear on the subjects of the two worlds; spirit/invisible world, and a physical/visible world. To say the spirit/invisible world does not exist, is to say, God does not exist.

Georg

January 2, 2011 at 9:28 am#231019

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2011,14:33)

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 02 2011,12:19)

Absolutely wonderful and inspired, Shimmer.

Thank you for relaying that to me.

peace and love,
mike

Your welcome, God bless.

January 2, 2011 at 9:46 am#231020