Do spirits have bodies?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 19 2010,13:07)

Hi Mike, Have you not read in the Scriptures of God how the Philistines had “The Ark” in their presence, yet there is No record of any of them dieing from touching “The Ark”! (1Sam.4:17 / 1Sam:5:2-11 / 1Sam:6:1-21) Have you NOT over looked this Biblical FACT?

Yeah, but there is no mention of any of them actually touching it either.  It does tell of plagues and other bad things happening when the ark was in their presence though.  They got rid of it pretty fast……….AND sent an offering along with it!

Anyway Ed, read this:

2 Samuel 6 NIV
6 When they came to the threshing floor of Nakon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. 7 The LORD’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God.

8 Then David was angry because the LORD’s wrath had broken out against Uzzah, and to this day that place is called Perez Uzzah.

Now, it sounded to me like you were saying it was just a build up of electromagnetic power, and not God who killed Uzzah.  And if that's what you're saying, then you're speaking against scripture.

peace and love,
mike

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,13:25)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 19 2010,12:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,11:23) Hi Wm, Jesus is the SON of God, not God Himself.   peace and love, mike Hi Mike, This wording is 100% in line with what (I believe) happened before the foundation of this world! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Ed, I didn't understand what you meant. mike

Hi Mike,

I explain this in great detail in the free e-book.
I would have to Post it all here for you to understand what I mean.
I cannot explain it though enough in a few sentences for you to fully grasp what I mean.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 19 2010,12:57)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,14:13) If the Nephilim were the offspring of angels and humans, and angels are spirit creatures, then spirits actually did procreate. Shimmer had suggested that the angels “possessed” a human male, not exactly like your thought that they “manifested” themselves as human beings.  But the fact remains that “spirit sperm” impregnated a human egg.  And it is at this precise moment that a being had been “begotten”.  It is at this precise moment that the “procreation process” had been completed, right? So when that “spirit sperm” entered into the human egg, and a new life began, that was the completion of a spirit procreating a new life. Mike, Whos to say that doesnt happen today ? Luke 17..26 'And, as it came to pass in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of Man;  they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were given in marriage, till the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the deluge came, and destroyed all;

Hi Shimmer,

I personally think this passage is just referring to Jesus coming as quickly and without warning as the flood came upon those others.

Somewhere I had heard that God forbid the angels from mating with the humans after the flood.  And I think there's actually a scripture to that effect, but I'm not sure where.

Maybe someone else will know?

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 19 2010,13:35)

Hi Mike, I explain this in great detail in the free e-book. I would have to Post it all here for you to understand what I mean. I cannot explain it though enough in a few sentences for you to fully grasp what I mean.

Maybe sometime brother.

My head is throbbing from information overload as it is!

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,13:31)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 19 2010,13:07) Hi Mike, Have you not read in the Scriptures of God how the Philistines had “The Ark” in their presence, yet there is No record of any of them dieing from touching “The Ark”! (1Sam.4:17 / 1Sam:5:2-11 / 1Sam:6:1-21) Have you NOT over looked this Biblical FACT? Yeah, but there is no mention of any of them actually touching it either.  It does tell of plagues and other bad things happening when the ark was in their presence though.  They got rid of it pretty fast……….AND sent an offering along with it! peace and love, mike

Hi Mike,

How do you 'think' the Philistines moved “The Ark” around?

Do you 'think' they used wooden staves as the Levites were instructed to, in moving “The Ark”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,13:31)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 18 2010,11:43) Hi Mike, As I have pointed to Stuart on numerous occasions, what you reference was written by a scribe of the King, NOT a Prophet of YHVH(63)! That's like getting truth from Obama's press secretary. Or from the book of the Macabees. Necole Tesla sermonized that The Ark(63) acted like a giant capacitor. Expelling large amounts of electrical type power in a single discharge. Notice how YHVH(63) explained to the Levitical Priesthood the correct way of handling “The Ark”(63); using non-conductive wooden staves? Ed J Ed, read this: 2 Samuel 6 NIV 6 When they came to the threshing floor of Nakon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. 7 The LORD’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God. 8 Then David was angry because the LORD’s wrath had broken out against Uzzah, and to this day that place is called Perez Uzzah. Now, it sounded to me like you were saying it was just a build up of electromagnetic power, and not God who killed Uzzah.  And if that's what you're saying, then you're speaking against scripture. peace and love, mike

Hi Mike,

The book of the Macabees is in the Greek Septuagint Bible,
but was later removed; are you aware of the FACT?

The book of Macabees is a scribes record of Judas Macabee (the King).

I have pointed out to you Matthew attributes what
the Prophet Zechariah said (30 Pieces of silver)
incorrectly to the Prophet Jeremiah.

So I ask you: “Are you speaking against scripture”
to discount what is written in Matthew?
I can play the same game you play!

Barley tried to play, but he doesn't play as I do!   …I reattached my original quote.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  .hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,13:41)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 19 2010,13:35) Hi Mike, I explain this in great detail in the free e-book. I would have to Post it all here for you to understand what I mean. I cannot explain it though enough in a few sentences for you to fully grasp what I mean. Maybe sometime brother. My head is throbbing from information overload as it is! mike

Hi Mike,

Yes, my friend, information overload happens to all of us!

Your brother in
Christ, Jesus!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[seekingtruth]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,08:23)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 18 2010,16:33) so if I state based on these scripture that God must of manifested a body to do these appearances, how is it unscriptural? Hi Wm, First of all, Jesus is the SON of God, not God Himself.  Do you want me to post scriptures that say Jesus is the Son of God? Second, no one has seen God AT ANY TIME.  (John 1:18)

Did you read the scriptures I posted?

As to my post in “Was jesus always superior” I am only trying to understand the scriptures, I've searched over 3000 scriptures on this topic in the last few weeks, the list I posted were the ones that revealed the nature/position of the Son. Unless I missed something the scriptures seem to state that Jesus pre-existed and came from the Father, but He was not identified as the Son until the conception in Mary.

What I posted is a new understanding for me, brought about from my best understanding of the scriptures I have studied so far. If you have a scriptures that proves it wrong, then please post it, otherwise please read it before asking questions already covered in the post.

Quote

I'm sorry Wm, I didn't mean to offend, but just to make a factual statement.  I can surely see how it sounded arrogant.  I will work on that, for I have been getting “edgy” here lately. Please forgive, and let's discuss John 1:18 if you want.

Of course I forgive you, Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Quote

But for now, do you think angels have bodies? peace and love, mike

I believe they do or at least they can, seemingly at will.

Just to be clear, I'm not all that smart, and my memory isn't what it used to be, but i'm trying my best. What I lack in smarts can easily be made up for with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but I must be seeking truth and be open that truth may not necessarily fit what I believe.

My opinion – Wm

[Ed J]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 19 2010,16:01)

Did you read the scriptures I posted? My opinion – Wm

Hi Seeking Truth,

I looked for this Post you mention,
but couldn't find it; where is it?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[JustAskin]

ST,

You rightly state that Scriptures does not state Jesus as 'Son of God' until he was born 'Son of Man' through Mary.

This is where Gene starts his 'Existence of Jesus'.

However, we know that God sent him from among his Spiritual Sons, because he was the most righteous, the most loved of the 'Spiritual Sons', hence he was identified like the human one 'David', 'I have found my David'

Mike cannot, nay, will not believe this because he started down a path of trying to claim 'Begotten' as meaning 'Jesus was Begotten ….that is BORN…at or before the beginning of time'. In fact, so desperate was he that he even stooped to trying to claim that 'Wisdom' was really Jesus. No one believes that…

Here he is now also agreeing with Shimmer about Angels 'procreating' with humans, when he claimed over and over that JustAskin was making this up….the guy, Mikeboll, is so contrarie, blustering like the wind, his 'spirit' never settled in any true path.
But, he also cannot believe that an Angel needs to human body to 'procreate' through…so, in one swift post he has completely overthrown his posts, against 'procreation' and 'Angels with bodies'

…poor Mike, I really think his 'information overload' is really a result of trying to twist scriptures. Even the best liar cannot keep up a straight lie for long…and Mike, though not lying for despicable reasons, but for deluded reasons, has subjected himself to maintaining his belief in a chosen psth despite all the signposts showing he's going the wrong way and others are shouting out, 'Mike, turn round…mike, it's the wrong way…' mike says, 'I know where i'm going….arghhhh…' as he fall down the pit, AGAIN.

The Holy Spirit did not create a body when it overshadowed Mary, so Jesus was not, strictly speaking, Procreated, but, because Mary was human, that it was a 'procreation' of a Holy sort, therefore, Jesus is called, 'Son of Man'.
The Angels created human bodies, not a big deal, they saw God do it in Adam. What they couldn't do, was to create a separate spirit in that body and make it live. In fact, 'that was not their plan'(S.W. ep1) because they wanted to have the ability, the bad angels, to enjoy sex and procreate like they saw humans doing, even though it meant they would forfeit their 'stations' in the heavens, never to return…the 'feeling' must have been very strong, or those angels were very – ummm – silly!!.

I think Mike should be encouraged to 'have a break..have a quick crap!' flush himself if is anal retentived nonesense, have a colonic brain irrigation…(yeah, yeah, just make it work, why don't you?)

(p.s. 'Have a brea..'. There's a commercial where and overworked person stops to have a welcomed break. He makes a cup of tea and sits back, snapping off a bar of ribbed chocolate and leisurely waffs it down…the voice over man say, 'Have a break, have a 'KitKat''…get it…get it…'quick crap'…'kitkat'…good eh, eh…! I was working at this place where the only time you could go to the loo was during your, ha ha, break…that's when i made up that joke…see, it was really apt!!!)

[kerwin]

Just Askin,

I am going to disagree that Jesus was the only human being with a Spiritual body at the time scripture was written as Scripture tells us that both Enoch and Elijah went to heaven while still living and did not return until Elijah did briefly many centuries later. We also know that the body of Moses was fault over by Satan and an archangel and Mosses was alive and well when he and Elijah visited with Jesus on a mountain at a later date. In addition Matthew 27:52 speaks of the bodies of many holy people being raised to life after Jesus’ death. Jesus is the best example we have of what will be after the resurrection or transfiguration of the righteous.

It is not impossible for a flesh and blood body either to inherit or occupy heaven. Even the corrupt flesh and blood can visit heaven though it cannot inherit it. Only an imperishable body can inherit heaven as the imperishable cannot be inherited by the perishable. We are conditioned to think that our current flesh is blood is the only type of flesh and blood there is but that is not the case. The flesh and blood to come is spiritual in nature but not immaterial. It is only imperishable because it is spiritual. When Paul states that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven he is speaking of our current flesh and blood; which some obviously were testifying would inherit heaven. He was not speaking of the spiritual flesh and blood which is like Jesus’ after his resurrection. That flesh and blood does not even function like our current flesh and blood does, as testified by observing Jesus.

[kerwin]

Pierre,

The fact that Paul was unsure means that either possibility could happen as Paul was speaking as the Holy Spirit moved him to.   It follows therefore that the Holy Spirit testified through Paul that both possibilities could happen.  This conclusion is true if Paul is speaking the Word of God and not just what he believes is true.

That is the first time I have heard anyone testify that Paul was speaking of Steven in 2 Corinthians 12:2.  The first reason that comes to mind why this is not Steven is Paul was there when Steven had his vision and Paul would thus know that it was an out of body experience instead of being unsure as he clearly states he is.  In addition a weak argument is that Steven saw Jesus at the right hand of God’s glory which would be in the highest of heavens and not the third heaven, see note.

Note: I do not know the exact number of heavens but according to Jewish theology it is seven.  That will have to do until I have a better answer, though I do not feel it is worth debating.  Psalms speaks of the highest heavens a number of times.

You will need to look at Paul’s whole argument starting at verse 35 in which he explains  with what kind of body the dead are raised.  As part of that argument Paul states:

1 Corinthians 15:39(NIV) reads:

Quote

All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.

He then continues comparing various bodies to the flesh mentioned in verse 39 and then splendor to them both even later.  Thus you can say that spiritual flesh, aka body, splendor, are different from the worldly flesh, aka body, splendor.

Please read my last post to Just Askin as I point out several others that had spiritual flesh bodies at the time Scripture was written.

[kerwin]

Ed J.

A spiritual body is a resurrected body just like Jesus’ but not like Lazarus’.

We can have the Holy Spirit in our worldly body.  I am using different definition for the word spirit when speaking of the Holy Spirit and Speaking of the Spiritual body.  The Holy Spirit is the immaterial guide for our actions that also is the active force of God and way God and Jesus live within us. A spiritual body is a body native to the spiritual realms much like a German is native to Germany.  It is not describing whether or not the body is immaterial.

Adam and Eve were created in spiritual, aka trans-dimensional bodies, as their bodies were imperishable.  God may well have restricted them to the Garden because of their youth.    The Fall caused those bodies to become corrupt and thus even more limited.

I was not taught that was called “reading into the text”.   I was taught that “reading into text” is reading one’s own conclusion into the text when the text does not justify it.  In this case I arrived at a rational conclusion using the information provided by the text under the guidance of the spirit.  Sometimes you do have to use evidence supplied from other places in scripture and guided by the spirit to arrive at the correct conclusion.

I am basically using the same method to come to my conclusion about the Garden as I did in determining one could enter the even the heavens either in or out of a corrupt body, except the information was gleaned from several scriptures instead of one.  I was hoping you could follow my reasoning but perhaps you could not.  I do not know of a better way to explain it.

[kerwin]

Mike Boll,

I do take Micah 5:2, Philippians 2 and John 17:5 literally. I just take into account that God know all things even those that will occur in the future and acts according to that knowledge. I also take into account that God is righteous and commands his people to be righteous. Both of those are godly principles.

Still that has nothing, except the reliance on godly principles, to do with properly understanding what God was teaching the philosophers at Athens through his servant Paul.

Are you saying Paul was lying or using an untrue source when he stated “For in him we live and move and have our being” to pander to the philosophers? If so I am going to disagree. I find it unlikely he even knew he was citing another as he is known to credit others for their contributions in his other letters. But even if he did, he quoted the source because it is true.

Bacteria lives inside my body and not part of me. Viruses do to if you consider them alive. Never the less I do not believe God has a physical presence as he is spirit. God is working everywhere whether it is as the live that animates all living things or the wind that erodes mountains God is there. Jesus said as much in John 5:17 and Matthew 10:29. So since God is all present and keeps all things functioning by his presence then I exist because God is there and I live because God is there and so what Paul and Aratus stated is true. Isaiah 66:1-2 is also true and nothing is made without God making it.

Do you believe God is all present?

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,13:50)

Hi Shimmer, I bet you'll never guess what I was thinking about all day at work today.  Angels having sex. Check it out.  Jesus is created in the image of God.  Man is created in the image of God.  Though the Bible doesn't specifically say, I would guess that angels are also created in the image of God.  (You can use your “Jesus was originally an angel” belief to help you see this! ) We know that some of the angels mated with human women.  But why?  If angels weren't created with sexual tendencies in the first place, why would they ever even think about having sex with human women?  If they weren't already created with the DESIRE and CAPABILITY to have sex, then what would be their “driving force” behind wanting to do it with human beings? Moses says the human women were “good looking” to them.  Why?  Would you be sexually attracted to a different species?  Like maybe a pig?  How about a walrus?  But maybe if that other species looked similar to the way your own species looked, you could then be sexually attracted to someone of that other species, right? Just some thoughts – what do you think? peace and love, mike

I agree mIke. What does JA have to say about this ?

How does a spirit being feel desire in that way ? Thats a good question,

Example, if they had a desire to eat food, wouldnt they need some things first, such as taste, smell  etc ?

Or could it all just be spiritual feelings?

Example when man was made in Gods image, was that spiritual image or physical ? God is spirit.

How strong can spirit be is the queston. They would have seen alot.

Its late, I really hope this post is ok ? If its not, I'm just tired.

[seekingtruth]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 19 2010,14:14)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 19 2010,16:01) Did you read the scriptures I posted? My opinion – Wm Hi Seeking Truth, I looked for this Post you mention, but couldn't find it; where is it? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

God is spirit, an infinite being, invisible, yet the source of all power. I believe at the foundation of creation an extension of the Father the “pre-incarnate Christ” was manifested, not a seperate being, but God Himself. It served as the interactive part of God in the OT.

This manifestation having the makings of this reality, but with the essence of God, was at the opportune time, sent to fulfill the secret of God to make possible the age of grace. This manifestation became a seperate being from God at the conception of Mary and while on earth He was totally a flesh and blood human being consisting of body, soul, and spirit.

After the resurrection He did indeed get a spiritual body and God exalted him to the highest position and gave him the name that is above every name, He was given rule over all power and authority, He was made Lord, by His God and Father and will continue being God's “agent” to mankind.
 
I arrived at this postulation based on the scriptures listed below:

Christ at Creation:
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.  

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Christ in old testament times:

Genesis 17:1 And Abram is a son of ninety and nine years, and Jehovah appeareth unto Abram, and saith unto him, … 22Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the LORD. … 22and He finisheth speaking with him, and God goeth up from Abraham.

Genesis 26:24 That night the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am the God of your father Abraham.

Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”

Genesis 35:1 And God saith unto Jacob, `Rise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there, and make there an altar to God, who appeared unto thee in thy fleeing from the face of Esau thy brother.' …  9 After Jacob returned from Paddan Aram, [c] God appeared to him again and blessed him. … 13 Then God went up from him at the place where he had talked with him.

Exodus 3:4 and Jehovah seeth that he hath turned aside to see, and God calleth unto him out of the midst of the bush, and saith, `Moses, Moses;' and he saith, `Here [am] I.' … 6:2And God speaketh unto Moses, and saith unto him, `I [am] Jehovah, 3 and I appear unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty; as to My name Jehovah, I have not been known to them;

Exodus 24:9-11 9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, [a] clear as the sky itself. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

2 Chronicles 1:7 That night God appeared to Solomon and said to him, “Ask for whatever you want me to give you.”

Job 33:26 He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy; he is restored by God to his righteous state.
But could it have been the Father appearing to people throughout the OT?

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

Col 1:15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,

According to this scripture God had to have had some sort of “earthly appearance” that was less than the whole. He also understood that God would dwell on earth.

1 Kings 8:27 “But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!

But would God really manifest Himself?

John 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.

Christ as human:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

I Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Ephesians 3:9 and to cause all to see what [is] the fellowship of the secret that hath been hid from the ages in God, who the all things did create by Jesus Christ,

Phil 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”

Ephesians 3:2 if, indeed, ye did hear of the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to me in regard to you,

Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

Micah 5:2 And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth — to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth [are] of old, From the days of antiquity.

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Dt 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

Philippians 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and hono
r because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1 John 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” 6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7″Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

John 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Hebrews  1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
7 In speaking of the angels he says, He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.”
8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10 He also says, “In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed.  But you remain the same, and your years will never end.”
13 To which of the angels did God ever say, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Christ after the resurrection:
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Jn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 14 “You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I

Ephesians 1:20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

2 Corinthians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort

Col 1:15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,

Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form

Philippians 2: 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things,

Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10 He also says, “In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed.  But you remain the same, and your years will never end.”
13 To which of the angels did God ever say, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?

This is still a work in process (I've been working on it for weeks now) so as I continue to search for more scriptures I may change my mind and if anyone else has other scriptures I should consider or other scripture based corrections please post them.

My opinion – Wm
 

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 19 2010,20:51)

Ed J. A spiritual body is a resurrected body just like Jesus’ but not like Lazarus’. We can have the Holy Spirit in our worldly body.  I am using different definition for the word spirit when speaking of the Holy Spirit and Speaking of the Spiritual body.  The Holy Spirit is the immaterial guide for our actions that also is the active force of God and way God and Jesus live within us. A spiritual body is a body native to the spiritual realms much like a German is native to Germany.  It is not describing whether or not the body is immaterial. Adam and Eve were created in spiritual, aka trans-dimensional bodies, as their bodies were imperishable.  God may well have restricted them to the Garden because of their youth.    The Fall caused those bodies to become corrupt and thus even more limited. I was not taught that was called “reading into the text”.   I was taught that “reading into text” is reading one’s own conclusion into the text when the text does not justify it.  In this case I arrived at a rational conclusion using the information provided by the text under the guidance of the spirit.  Sometimes you do have to use evidence supplied from other places in scripture and guided by the spirit to arrive at the correct conclusion. I am basically using the same method to come to my conclusion about the Garden as I did in determining one could enter the even the heavens either in or out of a corrupt body, except the information was gleaned from several scriptures instead of one.  I was hoping you could follow my reasoning but perhaps you could not.  I do not know of a better way to explain it.

Hi Kerwin,

I think the problem is not so much derived from the concepts of reading into the text
based on our looking at what is being said as a whole more-so than the specifics in the verse,
but the problem comes in with language limitations having the inability to matching how others
receive the intended ideas that we portray from spiritual aspects involved in our realm!

I understand fully what you are trying to say, but I also see the wording as a problem for others.
Yet this is the type of bible study that has potential to enable much growth between the brethren.

Thank you for sharing your ideas! Most are reluctant to share this type of insight,
because they are usually attacked for opening up in this manor. This is yet again
another limitation, which I see you have matured beyond the bounds of such attacks!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Wm,

Thank you for sharing as well!

My believe is similar to both yours and Kerwin's,
but also somewhat dissimilar as well. My belief is derived
from looking at the entirety of Scriptures as a whole. So I would
only be posting selected verses in different arrangements to explain
diverse overlapping concepts. Most threads are overrun with the the same
message shoved down our throats time and time again. With little or no time spent
investigating how others have formulated their ideas of God, based on the same Scriptures.

This thread has progressed nicely into a teaching thread!
T8 would be proud seeing us discuss the Scriptures with such unity!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 20 2010,03:50)

Pierre, The fact that Paul was unsure means that either possibility could happen as Paul was speaking as the Holy Spirit moved him to.   It follows therefore that the Holy Spirit testified through Paul that both possibilities could happen.  This conclusion is true if Paul is speaking the Word of God and not just what he believes is true. That is the first time I have heard anyone testify that Paul was speaking of Steven in 2 Corinthians 12:2.  The first reason that comes to mind why this is not Steven is Paul was there when Steven had his vision and Paul would thus know that it was an out of body experience instead of being unsure as he clearly states he is.  In addition a weak argument is that Steven saw Jesus at the right hand of God’s glory which would be in the highest of heavens and not the third heaven, see note. Note: I do not know the exact number of heavens but according to Jewish theology it is seven.  That will have to do until I have a better answer, though I do not feel it is worth debating.  Psalms speaks of the highest heavens a number of times. You will need to look at Paul’s whole argument starting at verse 35 in which he explains  with what kind of body the dead are raised.  As part of that argument Paul states: 1 Corinthians 15:39(NIV) reads: Quote All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. He then continues comparing various bodies to the flesh mentioned in verse 39 and then splendor to them both even later.  Thus you can say that spiritual flesh, aka body, splendor, are different from the worldly flesh, aka body, splendor. Please read my last post to Just Askin as I point out several others that had spiritual flesh bodies at the time Scripture was written.

kerwin

i do not care for Jewish interpretation,those are men views,not Godly views ,but it seems you are attracted to that type of reasoning,and so fail to see scriptural points,

Pierre

[JustAskin]

Kerwin,
Scriptures says that Jesus is the first to be resurrected from the dead and is therefore first over all created beings with a heavenly body to occupy the heavenly place.

All those whom you mentioned are not resurrected bodies in Spirit form. If Moses didn't 'die' how could he have been 'resurrected', and Enoch was 'taken', so he could not be 'resurrected'. Scriptures plainly says that the seed must first 'die' before it can 'grow'(Germinate) and when it does, it is not raised as a giant version of the seed but a beautiful plant, same then, when the flesh and blood body dies, it is raised as something else, a beautiful Spirit body….so far, only Jesus has done that.
So the 'Heavenly body' is not like flesh and blood body that can be seen and touched, it is invisible to human eyes, like all things in heaven. But see this. Paul, in 1 Corinthians, first compares human body to animal…then earthly bodies to heavenly bodies…see that you read 'heavenS', plural, means here, the Sky and Space, hence the Sun, Moon, Stars…and finally he contrasts the dead body to the risen body (and you quite rightly dusmiss Lazarus…don't know why you even mentioned it because Lazarus ibviously still died later).
This risen body is a pure spirit body in that it will be both seen by human eyes…and able to occupy the heavenly spirit realm, as Jesus does now. Here, now, is Mikeboll's Spirit with body…but not the way he desires to see it for he only sees with fleshly eyes. The Spirit body is not bounded by space nor time, but it can be in one place at One time or it can be in Any place at Any time.
Only those, the mass, who are in Paradise, will be still limited to one place at one time, those on the restored Paradise Earth.

Kerwin, you appear to understand Dimensions…so you can see that the higher dimensions are not limited by space, nor time, nor can any element by occupy anything higher than fourth domension…after that that 'element' can be in several places AT THE SAME TIME, so how can it be like a 'single' thing, it must be 'indeterminate'…as Science is discovering (Where is Stuart?). And if each 'element' is indeterminate, Mikeboll, what 'Boundary' can it have except in God who contains ALL Things…and there is no 'outside' of God.
Mike, does Air have a boundary? What is it's container? Only the forces of gravity holding it in the earth…take this force as God…where is the boundary of the air? None, for it is everywhere.
Mikeboll, can i speak to you…what is the boundary of me speaking to you? Science and technology means i can 'see you', 'hear you', 'speak to you'.,whereever you are, whether on earth or under the earth, in Space or in the sea…tell that to a Jew 2000 years ago! He would say you were mad. Mikeboll, write a program on your computer that is an Avatar game…can that Avatar be where you want it to be? Yes, does it have to be in a physical body? No, for it is composed of 'bits and bytes' and the 'intelligence' of that Avatar can be recreated ANYWHERE in Avatar land as you please…only for some semblance of order, continuity and interaction, are they then limited to one space at a time. I watched my son playing a game and his Avatar character was battling a dragon. He was running out of energy and about to die, so i said, 'can't you just …teleport… dematerialise him…out of the area'…but the programmer had anticipated it and prevented such…unsportsmanlike behaviour…where is the Spirit of that Avatar? Mike?
In my Son…even if avatar dies, my son is still living. The game controller will say, 'you can't resurrect yourself for five minutes…you are DEAD'…dead in the Avatar flesh but Alive in the Spirit…but can't interact in Avatar world…you cannot warn your colleague about the strength of the dragon in those five minutes.
Now, imagine, SuperAvatar man (Usually an egotistical backroom systems programmer) who equips himself with superpowers. He can battle the dragon, refreshing himself or teleporting in and out to any place at anytime. He is not limited to Avatar depth of sea, avatar erupting volcano, avatar vacuum of avatar space, can go multimillion avatar miles between on planet and another, live in avatar ether air or any avatar atmostphere (aka 'Red Dwalf')…because they are Avatar Spirit….

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